Stealth Feedback & Suggestions Thread

[timster7]

What about more advance feature which might be hard to implement. Just like metal gear solid which is distraction points. Let say you fire at a object on the  map like a turret and it falls to the ground and breaks all the grineer or corprus will gather to the area and check it out or shoot an object which falls and smash the npc as an obstacle trap. For the infection blowing up little egg pods where they will gather and feast on so you can take them out as a horde without relying on an aoe all the time. 

 

Also I notice infected doesn't have an alert like the corpus or grineer they should add a screeching warning so that people know that stealth is broken on infection map. 

 

 

[Lilybun]

-vision

you can see through the walls for brief period of time

this skill can be added/replaced for ash or loki, or it could be a consumable item in shop, so all players will be able to use it.

 

Or a mod that fits the ability slot for ALL the warframes, automatically replacing the skill that you aren't using Why would general utility skill be warframe limited? Sure this would mean that we'd have to limit the amount of skill mods you can have at your suit to 4 but that's the way it pretty much is already

[timster7]

Or a mod that fits the ability slot for ALL the warframes, automatically replacing the skill that you aren't using Why would general utility skill be warframe limited? Sure this would mean that we'd have to limit the amount of skill mods you can have at your suit to 4 but that's the way it pretty much is already

It should be an item used at anytime in a mission 1 time use as a comsumible. 

[Barbzilla]

sorry, english is not my naitive, so i can't say for sure if this expression sound okay in english or not.

well to solve this you can just add bonus xp for finishing level being undetected. problem solved mostly, except levels with bosses.

 

 

 

 

There is a very simple solution for this, and it would also work for boss missions.  Give the player bonus experience at the end of the map for every living enemy that did not go into alert mode, and make that experience equal to the amount of experience you would get for killing said enemy.  Now there is no incentive one way or the other, both methods would yield equal experience.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Barbzilla

[FoxnEagle]

I don't know if this has been suggested before, I only when through the first few pages and the last, but I think the invisibility from shade should be changed, and maybe a few weapons.

 

As it is right now, enemies can see you before you can get into range of them for shade to cloak you. And before everyone just says "Well go play a different tenno that can smokescreen," I don't want to, I want my Mag. The enemy also has to be in the FOV of Shade for the cloak to go off which leads to many frustrating moments of hiding around a corner, watching an enemy approach you, and turn right into you and you're still not cloaked.

 

What I would like to see change is not have to have enemies around to cloak. but rather phase in and out of cloaking.

 

By phasing in and out, I mean that Shade will slowly turn you invisible (more ranks the faster it happens) and as long as you don't attack, hack, run, or use abilities, you will remain cloaked permanently.

While this may sound OP at first, just remember that you have to open some doors, this won't help that much in extermination missions, and boss missions you will still have to uncloak and kill the boss.

 

As for attacking while stealthed, it will have to be done more cleverly, out of sight of other enemies and cameras. This makes it more tricky, and players may have to just leave a room alone because there are too many enemies. I do agree with the original post's idea of different alert levels and having just a little more time to kill the person at the command console. While some new weapons would be nice, I would much rather see the cloaking methods relaunched.

 

Back to things that will take you out of cloak, pretty much anything you have to use your action key for, and attacking. Yes, that would mean no reviving teammates while cloaked with 50 enemies around you. (I would miss that though :[ )

 

Now, with this method of cloaking, some game modes will be impossible to do completely cloaked. This will mean that you have to be a complete one man army, or get a squad. With the playerbase continually rising, I don't have too many problems getting a random squad. As such, missions like defense, assassinate, and rescue will severely limit the cloaking abilities, however having some kind of bonus when successfully reaching a boss undetected (boss starts with shields down) would be nice.

 

A small bone that I have to pick with the stealth attack are against the high health grineer and infected. It is ridiculous that I can stealth attack a Grineer Napalm over and over and it takes 20 time and he doesn's notice that he is getting his neck snapped 20 times? To change this, something like a stealth attack where it drains their health quickly, as long as you are holding them. Also, stealth attacks should NOT have to go through shields...

 

I do like the stealth attack animations, kudos to the person who made them, my favorite is stealth attack on the infested dog like creatures. Just flip, and kill.

 

As for the XP problem, when alerted there are more enemies, so getting more XP should be a reward for stealth kills.

 

In short, stealth should be more high risk, high reward, and a little more balanced in terms of how it operates. Currently, (except for the absolute try hards) stealth is used more to hide right in the midst of battle, wait for shields to return or heal an ally, then jump right back in.

 

FoxnEagle

[Spy9224]

I just purcased shade and right off the bat i found something i did not like about him, while using a loki warframe invis does not work on my shade. Cloak works fine but becasue of the short distance that i have to be to my enamies i want to use invis. so if you guys can make it so that when i am invis so is my sentinal or the enameis can not see my sentinal until they see me first? Thank you.

[MrUltralisko]

a little ask if i accidentaly i click but accidentaly on my hotmail unsubcribe and idont know why i only are reading the thing what i can do to i dont know,he subcribe or something

[IHWIP]

I think stealth take down should be double damage and if it doesn't kill them, it at least knocks them down. And if it does kill them it is silent and does not alert audibly. Ya know...the cover their mouth slit their throat kinda take down. ;)

[_Chaser]

no values. percentage of health

[VelenoHargreaves]

no values. percentage of health

 

What? Explain a little better please '-'

[beastotch]

I just want to +1 an idea that I'm only assuming has been mentioned multiple times (no, I didn't read all 26 pages; I'm a grown-&#! man).

 

I would love it if enemies could lose sight of you after you've been detected.  Maybe they enter a heightened state of alertness, making it more likely that they'll find you again from that point on, that would be fine.

 

I like pulling off stealth kills.  It's what keeps me coming back, honestly.  Also, it kills the immersive realism when you feel like enemies become psychic (know where you are regardless of whether or not they can see you).

 

By the way, I'm an animator myself and I really appreciate all of your hard work (especially the very fluid and appealing animations).  Keep it up.

[IHWIP]

The Omnipotence of the Lotus kills the realism for me. Why does she always know exactly where you need to go? Why does she know which data units you need? We are supposed to be in an action shooter. Part of action is chaos and a lack of information is a great way to induce that chaos. ;)

[beastotch]

That doesn't bother me from a gameplay standpoint.  Actually it barely bothers me from any standpoint, but I see where you're coming from.  That type of character is fairly common in action games though.  She is the 'ops' type character with all the intel and such.  See Metal Gear Solid as an example; there's always someone buzzing in Snake's ear.  As for her being 'omnipotent', I think you mean 'omniscient' and maybe that will be explained diegetically in the future... :)

[Azrael90]

I didn't see this topic...I totally support it.

[SFkenny]

Just had an instance where shooting a Grineer knocked him into proximity of an alarm panel, which triggered a shipwide alert. 

 

Seriously, they should actually USE the panel, not just stand there for a split second.

[FLSH_BNG]

One thing I know that would certainly help stealth gameplay is if only Tenno who have been seen by and enemy are known about. Say you're playing with a guy who doesn't sneak around and two or three who are. The alarm sounds and the alert goes out that there is only one warframe. The approaching guards would know that there is only one guy to worry about.

They'll go after that one only until another alarm announces that the number of confirmed intruders has gone up.

This way, if only one person is detected, it doesn't ruin the stealth for everybody, they could still sneak around and stab people in the back while the guards are occupied with the other(s).

I think that each Warframe's "stealth" should be tracked individually.

That and the ability to use active terminals to send false confirmations of an intruders death or capture would be nice too. If you're soloing a level and get seen, you would have a chance to render everyone on the level oblivious to your presence again.

Edited May 9, 2013 by FLSH_BNG

[beastotch]

FLSH_BNG, I completely agree that each warframe's stealth should be handled individually. This is an area where co-op games have historically disappointed. I'd love to see Warframe's developers, especially since it is so co-op-centric, to flesh out the game in this area.

 

To the broader "stealth" point: I know this isn't supposed to be a "cover" based game and that "stealth" is close to being the same thing, but I'm feeling like this could be a missed opportunity to really make this game stand out.

 

To be clear, I'm talking about:

 

Being able to hide from enemies after an alarm is sounded.

I don't personally care if the alarm stays on and the area stays flooded with enemies (contrary to FLSH_BNG's interesting suggestion of being able to hack the alarms). Look at Metal Gear Rising: this is an action game, with no significant cover abilities, from what I remember you can't even crouch, but enemies in that game will eventually forget about you if you wait long enough and if you run somewhere and hide and they didn't see where you went, enemies...don't know where you are.

 

And as FLSH_BNG put it simply: "each Warframe's 'stealth' [being] tracked individually".

The prospect of one warframe creating a distraction for others to slip past enemies is really exciting.

 

Again, thanks for your hard work. What you've achieved so far is truly impressive.

Edited May 9, 2013 by beastotch

[IHWIP]

Actually this game is fantastic with stealth. I can kill some guys, run behind a couple boxes and wait and if nobody saw where I went they will start looking and I can pick them off again as long as no other bad guys see. To me the loss of stealth via alarm doesn't change things that much either. Of course, this is all solo. Multiplayer I can rarely get away with stealth because the other players are running around like crazy people. ;)

It would be interesting to see how the dynamic would work with 4 players dedicated to stealth. I've never been a part of that. <man tear>

[kaizer0002]

I'll have to get a video for this later (can't at the moment as I am at work) but currently stealth alerts seem based on a certain time after the enemy sees you instead of reaching the panel and activating it. I was using frost dual zorens against a Grineer heavy gunner and they immediately bolted for the alarm. They were slowed due to the frost weapons, but the alarm was raised when they only made it halfway to the box. Once they actually reached the box, it went into lockdown because the alarm had already been raised.

 

This seems to indicate that stealth is not based on any condition other than a certain amount of time passing, although further testing is required. There have been times when I fought Corpus and thought I could just block them from reaching the alarm box and wondered why it hadn't worked until that occurred.

[beastotch]

Actually this game is fantastic with stealth. I can kill some guys, run behind a couple boxes and wait and if nobody saw where I went they will start looking and I can pick them off again as long as no other bad guys see. To me the loss of stealth via alarm doesn't change things that much either. Of course, this is all solo. Multiplayer I can rarely get away with stealth because the other players are running around like crazy people. ;)

It would be interesting to see how the dynamic would work with 4 players dedicated to stealth. I've never been a part of that. <man tear>

My experience has been that, for example, if I'm hiding and no one can see me, and I run behind another crate or other such obstruction, the enemies know I'm there, even though they hadn't seen me move my position.

In general, the stealth is good though, thanks for your positive outlook.  I was just telling a friend the other day how I appreciated the ability to sneak up on enemies and how it was my favorite part of the game.  I think the posters of this thread just have suggestions for making a good thing even better. :)

[Unit5976]

What? Explain a little better please '-'

What he means is that doing stealth takedowns shouldn't do double damage, it should instead remove a percentage of the target's health. IE, doing double damage could do 200 damage and still leave the target standing. if it takes 100% of the target's health, however, it's a guarantee'd kill every time.

 

Just like stealth takedowns should.

[beastotch]

Don't really have time to flesh out this point, but it just occurred to me that:

 

If awards / bonuses are given for stealth kills (and it's been suggested that they shouldn't), then those awards should probably be curtailed if performed during a full alert after the alarm is sounded. 

 

This is moot at the moment because as far as I can tell, it's impossible to hide from NPCs on full alert due to Alarm-Induced Omniscience.  But I'm hoping that that will eventually be changed--it's my biggest concern.  (An enemy's awareness of you should always be based on line of sight or audio cues, even after alert.)

[unmog]

Not sure if it's already suggested or not, only read the first page and theres a lot of pages to this. But I think it'd be immensely helpful for stealth if there was like a second or third strike you know? Say you or someone else screws up, the base is on alert. They send a wave of goons at you. After there all dead it might be cool if you could hack a console, or even one of the enemy commander corpses and send a false "All clear" message to send the rest of the base out of "Alert mode". Maybe it might be best to limit this to two or three times every game... maybe leave it a chance that it doesnt work, who knows? I just think currently the stealth part of the game is rather unforgiving.

 

Also about the consoles. The enemy should take a few seconds at the console instead of running up to it and instantly putting the whole base into alert mode. Also if they can trigger a lock down with it, why can't we? We obviously can send the "unlock all the doors" command after all and it might be beneficial sometimes to be able to lock the doors until were done with something.

[Incursum]

I'm not up to reading all 27 pages of this thread, so excuse me if this has already been suggested before.

I think a mod, item or something else that would let you trick the detection to make the whole ship think we're gone would be sweet. As soon as someone sees you and pulls the alarm, you can't really go back to a stealth gameplay unless you start a new mission, which is kind of disappointing when you want to do things silently.

Many people don't even try to go stealth mode as it's easy to get detected, which is disappointing. This would have the potential to amend the situation a bit.

 

edit: I took too long to write this, and someone ends up making a very similar suggestion right before me. Ah well!

Edited May 10, 2013 by Incursum

[beastotch]

Unmog, yes both of those exact ideas have been proposed before, but no harm done.  I didn't read all 27 pages either.  The idea of being able to do more with the hacking is one that's really grown on me, though it's outside the scope of my initial reason for visiting this thread.

 

It would be great if the OP would add a few of these more recent suggestions to his original post, and maybe clean it up a bit if he has the time, but it's not a huge deal, I just think it might be more likely to get attention from devs if it's more legible.