New Players Get Good Stuff Way To Early.

[mejulio]

Grumble...

 

I can fully understand you not knowing the "=/=" thing, but where i was annoyed is that the rest of my comment was explicitly stating that Progression should not be grind based. From my perspective, it seems like you read the first sentence and then decided to comment. And if you did read it all, you did not spend the necessary time to process the information presented. THAT is why I was annoyed.

 

From what you have said, you do not seem like a new player (or newb). There is no magical switch that takes you from a new player to a veteran. Your held concepts of the mechanics of Warframe seem that of an intermediate if not veteran, your lacking areas would just be in the grind based areas of Progression. Also, at MR 7, the doors of the game are wide open. You have passed through the new player gates and are exposed to the grindfest that is Warframe at the moment. Two months of playing is quite some time, just compare that to the time people put into other games and "complete" them.

 

Saying "Fetish" was in jest, I was referring to how you keep coming back to new players in your arguments. You refer to new players almost as a permanent state, as if a new player must remain a new player for a certain duration before moving up. This may just be misinterpretation, but you do say newb quite a few times in every comment. Progression should be a system that brings a player out of the "newb" stages as quickly as possible, teach newer players the ropes and not depend on others to just give them information. The "dark" thing, again, was how you keep self-classifying yourself as a newb even though you do not seem to be one. 

 

I typed all of those words after clarifying the symbol to clarify my points. Whenever I post something, I want to make sure that what I am saying is equivalent to what I wrote. You accidentally misinterpreted my first comment, thus I decided to word it differently and to clarify some points. 

 

I did not say it was cowardly to have an opinion, I said it was cowardly to just leave a conversation because you don't like what others are saying. I got the impression you were just rage-quitting from...

 

 

(I am going to ignore the stuff between the lines)

I would like to know what you thought of this idea on how to rework Progression. It is very long winded, but I tried to balance everything, give a reason to progress, and give a foundation for further additions.

 

Side Note: Welcome to the Forums, it is nice to see a person who can actually make a response longer than ten words *glares at other posts*, and I am looking forward to see further input on later discussions by you. 

 

You just said that more mastery walls was sensible in response to one person and then argued with my post about the same thing!? That's all I'm arguing for, locking the best gear in the game behind progressing mastery walls so people can earn it as the continue to play and level instead of getting all the best stuff at rank 2 when they can trade which is usually day 3 or so.

I did not say lock up all the best gear. I stated some of the gear. You seem to want lock all the best gear and I don't. Yes some of the best gear should locked but the real reason is to make the more challenging not because newbs can get them.

[Xylia]

Apparently, the OP would rather see people with MK1 Bratons in his team doing 1-5% of the total damage in the mission, and see people quitting when they feel like they're banging their head against an impassible brick wall.

[mejulio]

Grumble...

 

I can fully understand you not knowing the "=/=" thing, but where i was annoyed is that the rest of my comment was explicitly stating that Progression should not be grind based. From my perspective, it seems like you read the first sentence and then decided to comment. And if you did read it all, you did not spend the necessary time to process the information presented. THAT is why I was annoyed.

 

From what you have said, you do not seem like a new player (or newb). There is no magical switch that takes you from a new player to a veteran. Your held concepts of the mechanics of Warframe seem that of an intermediate if not veteran, your lacking areas would just be in the grind based areas of Progression. Also, at MR 7, the doors of the game are wide open. You have passed through the new player gates and are exposed to the grindfest that is Warframe at the moment. Two months of playing is quite some time, just compare that to the time people put into other games and "complete" them.

 

Saying "Fetish" was in jest, I was referring to how you keep coming back to new players in your arguments. You refer to new players almost as a permanent state, as if a new player must remain a new player for a certain duration before moving up. This may just be misinterpretation, but you do say newb quite a few times in every comment. Progression should be a system that brings a player out of the "newb" stages as quickly as possible, teach newer players the ropes and not depend on others to just give them information. The "dark" thing, again, was how you keep self-classifying yourself as a newb even though you do not seem to be one. 

 

I typed all of those words after clarifying the symbol to clarify my points. Whenever I post something, I want to make sure that what I am saying is equivalent to what I wrote. You accidentally misinterpreted my first comment, thus I decided to word it differently and to clarify some points. 

 

I did not say it was cowardly to have an opinion, I said it was cowardly to just leave a conversation because you don't like what others are saying. I got the impression you were just rage-quitting from...

 

 

(I am going to ignore the stuff between the lines)

I would like to know what you thought of this idea on how to rework Progression. It is very long winded, but I tried to balance everything, give a reason to progress, and give a foundation for further additions.

 

Side Note: Welcome to the Forums, it is nice to see a person who can actually make a response longer than ten words *glares at other posts*, and I am looking forward to see further input on later discussions by you. 

Thank you for clarify this for me. While I have yet to read your idea to rework the progression but rest assured that I will read but now I must return to my family life now.

[mejulio]

Apparently, the OP would rather see people with MK1 Bratons in his team doing 1-5% of the total damage in the mission, and see people quitting when they feel like they're banging their head against an impassible brick wall.

Here HERE. Yes great point.

[jmforeman02]

Apparently, the OP would rather see people with MK1 Bratons in his team doing 1-5% of the total damage in the mission, and see people quitting when they feel like they're banging their head against an impassible brick wall.

That's rather extreme. Just because you can't get Boltor Prime when you're clearing Venus doesn't mean you'll have this problem. Karak, Twin Gremlins, and Amphis carried me a LONG way. And as they progress they'll get better weapons. Ignis at rank 4, Soma, Penta, and Ogris at rank 6 for example.The same way it is now but progressing further.

.

Right now you can get the Paris at rank 0. I loved that thing and could do plenty of damage with it for the early-mid game.  If youre saying a Mastery 2 won't be helpful or effective on T4, duh.

Edited February 11, 2015 by jmforeman02

[Quizel]

 

 

As for the other stuff you already pointed out that you only need the gear and the mods. If you can buy both with plat at rank 2, where is the progression? I think more gear, the best gear, should be locked behind mastery walls. You can still buy it instead of grinding it, but you should have to meet the requirement first. For example I think Boltor Prime should be a mastery 8 or 9 item, and Soma Prime a mastery 10 item.

ic yeah, skim'ed ya and took ya out of context :D.

 

Still semi indifferent about locking Prime weapons beyond their base MR though. As Akbolto does some insane dps as well at Rank 0 assuming you have a click macro and decent dps if you don't. (which brings up core issues with MR across all the weapons not just primes). So it's like who cares if someone purchased a weapon when viable weapons are available (you listed a few others). 

 

Locking trading of mods behind the mastery rank of the mod would be an interesting thought. (Ex. rank 10 serration can only be traded to a rank 10+ player). As the last ranks of the mod aren't required to succeed nor bring much more of an exciting experience. But...

 

Doing such a thing doesn't change my experience. If someone wants to pay 10-40 bucks for a single max mod it actually probably benefits me more than it hurts.  How it benefits the guy who paid 10 bucks is hard to say. Like, would they have played the game at all starting off with nothing? Somehow I got a feeling they woudln't.  Either we get their 10 bucks (distributing plat to those that felt they needed it) and a few hours of game play out of them or none at all.

 

 

 

I guess the missing information I'd need is to know is what ratio of those players that did pay to win (ultimately can be seen as pay to loose from some players perspective) quit the game because they felt they achieved everything they could have,  felt if such a system weren't in place believed they would have grinded it out themselves, and know they would enjoy this new (actually old) system more.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Quizel

[jmforeman02]

 

 

ic yeah, skim'ed ya and took ya out of context :D.

 

Still semi indifferent about locking Prime weapons beyond their base MR though. As Akbolto does some insane dps as well at Rank 0 assuming you have a click macro and decent dps if you don't. (which brings up core issues with MR across all the weapons not just primes). So it's like who cares if someone purchased a weapon when viable weapons are available (you listed a few others). 

 

Locking trading of mods behind the mastery rank of the mod would be an interesting thought. (Ex. rank 10 serration can only be traded to a rank 10+ player). As the last ranks of the mod aren't required to succeed nor bring much more of an exciting experience. But...

 

Doing such a thing doesn't change my experience. If someone wants to pay 10-40 bucks for a single max mod it actually probably benefits me more than it hurts.  How it benefits the guy who paid 10 bucks is hard to say. Like, would they have played the game at all starting off with nothing? Somehow I got a feeling they woudln't.  Either we get their 10 bucks (distributing plat to those that felt they needed it) and a few hours of game play out of them or none at all.

 

 

 

I guess the missing information I'd need is to know is what ratio of those players that did pay to win (ultimately can be seen as pay to loose from some players perspective) quit the game because they felt they achieved everything they could have,  felt if such a system weren't in place believed they would have grinded it out themselves, and know they would enjoy this new (actually old) system more.

 

i would like to see that data as well. I don't have it. DE could probably put it together if they haven't already with purchase histories and activity logs. I can tell you from my experience when I was low mastery and Soma was king, earning the Ignis, then Soma, Penta, and Ogris gave me something to strive for. I liked it. When the new stuff came out i enjoyed working for those. Now I'm at the top and I have nothing more to work for. But the place I am now is the place most people start now. I wanted the Soma cause it was awesome and I had to work to get it, but if I were starting now I might have the Boltor Prime at mastery 2 so I wouldn't want or need the Soma. Now when a new player hits mastery 6 he can build the Soma Prime or the Soma regular, the Rhino Prime or the Rhino regular. Whats the point of the regular Soma and Rhino then? It just doesn't make much sense. I think there should be a progression. I'm not saying EVERY decent weapon needs to be locked up like the akbolto, but the ones that are game-breaking in the early and mid-game should be. People also like a challenge. What kind of challenge is playing through Earth for the first time with a Boltor Prime, Rhino Prime, and Synoid Gammacor? Akbolto from mastery 0 is one thing, but Telos Akbolto from Mastery 2?

 

Mastery 2 is when trade is unlocked and most people hit it on their third day of play. It only takes that long because you have to wait 24 hours between starting and the mastery tests. You could buy the Synoid Gammacor or Telos Akbolto with your starter 50.

Edited February 11, 2015 by jmforeman02

[DeMonkey]

Here HERE. Yes great point.

How in all the 7 circles of hell is that a great point? Are you both seriously suggesting that noobs 'need' the boltor prime to be able to progress in the game when there is over 200 weapons currently available in the game? Because if that's the case you guys may as well pack up and go play something else. This is Warframe, not #GoBoltorOrGoHome.

[elele]

Now I'm at the top and I have nothing more to work for. But the place I am now is the place most people start now. 

 

You either have a maxed Serration, a maxed Heavy Caliber, a maxed Transient Fortitude, a maxed Primed Continuity, or you don't. 

 

If you don't, then you have more to work for, otherwise you are not reaching the game's full potential. 

 

If you do, then you're not in the place most people start now, because "new people" don't have those maxed mods. 

 

Now when a new player hits mastery 6 he can build the Soma Prime or the Soma regular, the Rhino Prime or the Rhino regular. Whats the point of the regular Soma and Rhino then? 

 

A new player can get Soma Prime and Rhino Prime either by spending money, or grinding hard. 

 

If he spends money, then DE is happy (and you should be too), no matter how pointless regular Soma/Rhino is to that player. 

 

If he grinds hard, well, obviously he can't grind hard unless he has decent equipment to begin with, "decent equipment" being the regular Soma/Rhino. 

[jmforeman02]

A new player can get Soma Prime and Rhino Prime either by spending money, or grinding hard. 

 

If he spends money, then DE is happy (and you should be too), no matter how pointless regular Soma/Rhino is to that player. 

 

If he grinds hard, well, obviously he can't grind hard unless he has decent equipment to begin with, "decent equipment" being the regular Soma/Rhino. 

A new player can have the Boltor Prime and Rhino prime with their starter 50. They could instead get a Synoid Gammacor with the starter 50. No money spent, no hard work. You were saying?  http://wftrading.net/?p=771 So why would they get the Soma again?

 

I also think you miss a big point. Buying stuff from DE does make them happy, but you know what makes them happier? When people KEEP buying stuff from them. They would much prefer a player base that sticks around for a while and continues to spend money. For example me. I've never bought prime access. but I've spent enough here and there over the course of the year and some odd months I've been playing to make DE very happy. Even better is someone who buys every prime access. Worse is someone who buys 15 dollars worth of plat at mastery 2, buys everything their heart desires from the market, and then quits out of boredom. And since that money was spent in the market, it's still in circulation and can be used to buy things again later by someone else. DE would prefer that we spend the plat with them, eliminating it from the market. That forces more people to buy more plat instead of trading for it.

Edited February 11, 2015 by jmforeman02

[Quizel]

with their starter 50. 

I believe the starter 50 plat can't be traded. edit: or i'd make 1,000 of accounts :D. Edit 2 okay i wouldn't cuz that'd be a lot of long hours getting to rank 2 with every one.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Quizel

[elele]

A new player can have the Boltor Prime and Rhino prime with their starter 50. They could instead get a Synoid Gammacor with the starter 50. No money spent, no hard work. 

 

"Your starting 50 Platinum cannot be traded" per https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/132826-trading-guidefaq/

 

So they have to spend real money for those. "New" player is unlikely to have immediate access to 75% discount. So 50 plat = $5, since the least amount you need to spend is $5 for 75 plat. 

 

On top of that, they also need to farm Orokin cells and Neural Sensors, meaning they have to at least reach Derelict, Jupiter and Mars (for Nef Anyo). That's at least 10 hrs game time unless they're carried by a friend. 

 

A person who spends $5 and 10hrs on a game is highly likely to keep playing the game, especially considering that the build time for Rhino Prime is more than 3 days. If said "new" player is willing to come back to this game after 3 days, then he's already "hooked". 

Edited February 11, 2015 by elele

[elele]

someone who buys 15 dollars worth of plat at mastery 2, buys everything their heart desires from the market, and then quits out of boredom. 

 

Without the discount, $15 probably gets you 250p. You really can't get "everything" with this plat, because you don't have enough to get maxed Serration, maxed Hornet Strike, maxed Vitality, maxed Redirection, etc. 

 

Without these essential mods, even a Rhino P with Boltor P+Gammacor will get annihilated in probably mid-level star chart. 

 

So in reality, said player probably needs to spend at least 500 to 1000p if he wishes to "buy everything from the market". 

 

500-1000p = $25 to $50. 

 

A normal player won't be willing to spend more on a game because $25-$50 is the regular price of a AAA game (console players use second-hand stores a lot while PC players usually wait for Steam discount) and "normal players" are restrained by their budget. Even if he continues to play another 1000 hrs, his spending is unlikely to correlate well with his game time, because $50 reaches his budge ceiling. 

 

If the player wishes to spend more, then he is considered a "whale" and his spending behavior won't depend on how much time he spends on a game, because whales spend irrationally. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by elele

[jmforeman02]

"Your starting 50 Platinum cannot be traded" per https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/132826-trading-guidefaq/

 

So they have to spend real money for those. "New" player is unlikely to have immediate access to 75% discount. So 50 plat = $5, since the least amount you need to spend is $5 for 75 plat. 

 

On top of that, they also need to farm Orokin cells and Neural Sensors, meaning they have to at least reach Derelict, Jupiter and Mars (for Nef Anyo). That's at least 10 hrs game time unless they're carried by a friend. 

 

A person who spends $5 and 10hrs on a game is highly likely to keep playing the game, especially considering that the build time for Rhino Prime is more than 3 days. If said "new" player is willing to come back to this game after 3 days, then he's already "hooked". 

Sorry didnn't realize that you couldn't trade your starter 50. You can spend $20 to get 370 plat though assuming no discount. spending $20 doesn't hook a person. Neither does waiting 3 days to get what you've purchased which is moot since you can rush it. 10 hours doesn't even hook a person which is also moot since you can be taxid or just buy the things from the market.

[taiiat]

We shouldn't allow new players to have any fun until they slave in the mines of mercury for at least 200 hours, then they are allowed out into the light of day.

@.@

this is currently true for Warframes though. basically useless until mid 20's for Level.

until then the Abilities do basically nothing. better off just shooting instead of spending those few seconds casting an Ability.

[Dalawantahr]

I hold the opinion that those players, who others have said "Quit the game because they got the best stuff right away and got bored" would have gotten bored regardless.

^ This. 

[jmforeman02]

 

500-1000p = $25 to $50. 

$15-16 gets you 370 plat with a 20% discount which are pretty common. with a50% discount you can get 1,000 plat for $25. I'm not sure what you're point is though. You seem to think that just because someone payed for plat, they are going to stay with this game for years. Why would that be the case? What they are mainly after is people who will buy a plat bundle, then buy another in a month or two or three, then another and so forth. Don't get me wrong. They love prime access guys but they don't make up a huge population. It's the guys who trickle it in over the long run that pay the bills.

[elele]

I'm not sure what you're point is though. You seem to think that just because someone payed for plat, they are going to stay with this game for years. 

 

My point is, once someone spends $20-50 on a game, DE is generally NOT expecting to extract more out of that player, unless said player is a whale. 

 

Because most ppl won't spend more than $20-50 on a single game. 

 

For these players, in any good F2P business model, the priority is to retain the $25-50, as early as possible, according to researches (I can find links for you if you wish). Locking Boltor P behind MR walls is detrimental to this. 

 

If said player stays and spends more, then he's become a "whale", who is accounted for with a completely different business model. 

Edited February 11, 2015 by elele

[elele]

They love prime access guys but they don't make up a huge population. It's the guys who trickle it in over the long run that pay the bills.

 

And here is where you're wrong I'm afraid. F2P games make their big money on whales (those who buy prime access). 

[jmforeman02]

You're definition of whale and prime access buyers are two different things. I would agree a prime access buyer is a whale. Look at the prime access prices. But $20? no. And by the way, by this definition, I'm a whale so my opinion is what matters so either way your argument sucks. I would say that MANY people will buy $20 worth of plat here and there over the course of a year or more and those are more plentiful than the Prime Access whales. And because of their sheer numbers, they are probably the main source of funds. You don't just want their money early, you want it early and often.

[DrMagoo111]

That was sarcasm, not rudeness.

Prime Access and the trade channel exist for a reason. If people want to spend money to jump right into the top of the power curve, then they are free to do so.

Being a vet player who "earned" your gear the hard way does not, in any way, give you the authority to limit how others "earn" their gear.

I feel like the topic should have been ended there.

A sense of progression would be nice, but tying it to obtainment of weaponry is the wrong way to do it.  I see a significant portion of posts claiming that people do not want to harm new players, but only want to build progression.  Unfortunately, harming new players with a mastery rank locking system for primes is unavoidable.

We have a few scenarios:

(1) Low MR Prime Access Buyers.

Generally considered okay due to bulk of money spent.

(2) Low MR players who manage to get parts through lucky drops and helpful friends.

This is probably the one instance in which applying an MR lock would not harm new players significantly, in that all the player would lose is time without being able to use the weapon.  Even if a lucky low MR player farmed out a Boltor Prime at MR3, for example, it would not be a heinous request to make them wait to MR 5 or 6.  That seems fairly reasonable, as far as MR progression goes, although I will ultimately always disagree with such locks.

MR requirements higher than 10 would be bad.  Hell, I don't even like the MR 8 req.  Around the 8 and above mark, MR becomes a massive slog, which would turn more players off due to dulled progression than entice players with a feeling of progression.

(3) Players who trade for the items

 

This is the most nuanced area and the area that has the greatest potential to harm players, given that the 1st case is generally accepted as a way to bypass MR.

In the most benign case, a high level player outright gifts a prime set to a low MR.  (2) mostly applies here, save for the added negative of indirectly slapping the generous high MR in the face for his good will, in the event he wanted the prime stuff used by the new player soon.

In medium cases, the low MR somehow trades for it without a monetary swap.  Again, this is mostly in case (2), although depending on the fairness of the trade could be considered indirect new player abuse.

The big problem comes with platinum trading.  Much like prime access, platinum is proof of something being purchased by the player, regardless of MR.  If we stuck to restricting traded prime items, then we are effectively breaking the agreement made in point (1), where purchases made to support DE are immune to MR restrictions.

This could potentially be gotten around, by adding some kind of flag for prime items which were traded with platinum, removing the lock.  But this would require a new system, applied to blueprints, as well as completed parts in the frame cases, that we cannot guess the direct ease of.

This puts us between a rock and a hard place.  Either we, in the name of progression, invalidate the purchase of platinum as free from the influences of mastery rank or we require DE to make a new system tailored to "fix" that which, frankly, is not broken for most players.

Ultimately, I think it best to leave the current system lying until other, less risky progression methods are fleshed out.  We have the Syndicate system, still fledgling, which needs a metric ton of work.  On top of that, the new PVP system provides a side outlet where more structured progression can be obtained.  Additionally, the new Cephalon adds a global and personal unit capture system, which will provide a constant stream of goals.  For old players, a fresh task every week.  For players coming in, many hours of challenges and rewards to look forward to.

Finally, we have raids and (eventually) the focus system: two other ideas which can help create progression without creating a new sense of harm on top of it.

Best to stick to the frontier, I think, if only in the name of caution and fairness.

 

[5h1n0k4m1]

Hi I know this kind of topic has been mentioned before but as I was reading a post on reddit from a guy with 80h in the game and owning Boltor Prime and Dread through recruit and trade channel. And now? He is Mastery 2 and is asking what the game has to offer? And I can not count the times I read this. After a short time the loose interest in Warframe because all other guns and things are crap compared to their early loadout. I don't want to really be mad about it but I am sad that Warframe pushes you to ruin your own fun if you are not careful. I mean this game is so great and with this it can nit live up to its potential. If you asked them lately the probably just say: Warframe? Yeah it was fun but nothing special.

I have nearly 1000h in game I gained my first prime weapon and Mastery 11 with 300 hours because I wanted to take it slow and earn that kind of stuff. I know DE always aims to give stuff to new Players as well as old ones but serious the prime weapons should have the same restrictions in Mastery Rank as normal weapons. And then for A Prime weapon I need to attend the missions and have luck and at the end I gained a lot of credits. All I then need is a bit of O Cells. But if I want to build normal weapon I have to farm normal resources and rare ones. I have yo buy the Bp and pay the building process. These credits farmed in missions with way lower payout then the void so it is somewhat more difficult to get the normal bad weapons then overpowered prime ones. I would love to see a change. A real development curve would be cool.

Maybe you should be able to attend the void T1 if you unlocked and cleared the first 3 Planets and after 3 other T2 unlocks. So you actually have to play the game a bit to go to the endgame stuff.

i like the idea :)

also giving mastery requirement should be good but people will always complain and DE will not gain money ...

[mejulio]

The point I have been trying to make is that there are too many weapons that are ignored because a better weapon is available, and somehow no one has deemed this a problem.  I agree, why on earth should I even try to get the pantera if the boltor, or boltor prime. is just objectively better?

 

That is the problem.  We aren't using other weapons because we want to, and we will stick with weapons long after we are bored with the game, because nothing else is good.

 

 

 

 

There is no endgame, because the game doesn't progress from beginning to end.  Everything is a grind, because there isn't anything to do or anywhere to go.

 

 

Having a system that allows the developer to say "this is a middle-tier weapon and isn't meant for enemies past lvl 30" would actually benefit the game.  It would allow for weapons to be developed for lower "tiers" that have interesting designs or mechanics without everyone calling it "trash" because they can't survive 45+ min in T4 survival.  That's a good thing, I promise.

 

 

It allows developers to "aim" at a certain level without fearing that it will be too Overpowered, or Underpowered.  They can better shape the progression into something that makes sense.

I read this post again and I like your idea about the tier system that would let us know what level enemy this weapon is useful against. My only question to you is how would this play out in Void missions. But it seems to be a good idea for progression in the system and might make everyone or at least most agree to this as a solution. And I do like the idea that there is no end, I have played to many games that have have an ending. When I get to the end if I like the game I wish it did not end so quickly. Maybe even add that the higher level players can't do missions that are low level. Just an idea for example at player who M6 cannot play on missions that are lvl 3. Perhaps you guys would come up with a better idea because mine is not well thought out. This along with the Tier system would allow the new to new players to use weapons that are not resource expensive or credits. Mod system for max appears to also be questionable for instance to Max a Serration Mod cost a player serious amounts of cores that are not possible for even high ranking players and this a common mod. It just seem inconsistent.It just my opinion and everyone has one. 

[mejulio]

Without the discount, $15 probably gets you 250p. You really can't get "everything" with this plat, because you don't have enough to get maxed Serration, maxed Hornet Strike, maxed Vitality, maxed Redirection, etc.

Without these essential mods, even a Rhino P with Boltor P+Gammacor will get annihilated in probably mid-level star chart.

So in reality, said player probably needs to spend at least 500 to 1000p if he wishes to "buy everything from the market".

500-1000p = $25 to $50.

A normal player won't be willing to spend more on a game because $25-$50 is the regular price of a AAA game (console players use second-hand stores a lot while PC players usually wait for Steam discount) and "normal players" are restrained by their budget. Even if he continues to play another 1000 hrs, his spending is unlikely to correlate well with his game time, because $50 reaches his budge ceiling.

If the player wishes to spend more, then he is considered a "whale" and his spending behavior won't depend on how much time he spends on a game, because whales spend irrationally.

Just to add to this post most players that attempt to trade Plat for mods must pay a credit tax. You still have to farm for these credits because you can't buy those. In the end of all things even with all the plat in the world you still have to have the credits to even get many mods. I really don't want to hear how easy it is to farm credits because not being able max your mods you most likely doing solo and with a squad they would look at you as totally useless. It easier to farm credit in level missions. That was my experience in the beginning. Edited February 11, 2015 by mejulio

[mejulio]

The point I have been trying to make is that there are too many weapons that are ignored because a better weapon is available, and somehow no one has deemed this a problem.  I agree, why on earth should I even try to get the pantera if the boltor, or boltor prime. is just objectively better?

 

That is the problem.  We aren't using other weapons because we want to, and we will stick with weapons long after we are bored with the game, because nothing else is good.

 

 

 

 

There is no endgame, because the game doesn't progress from beginning to end.  Everything is a grind, because there isn't anything to do or anywhere to go.

 

 

Having a system that allows the developer to say "this is a middle-tier weapon and isn't meant for enemies past lvl 30" would actually benefit the game.  It would allow for weapons to be developed for lower "tiers" that have interesting designs or mechanics without everyone calling it "trash" because they can't survive 45+ min in T4 survival.  That's a good thing, I promise.

 

 

It allows developers to "aim" at a certain level without fearing that it will be too Overpowered, or Underpowered.  They can better shape the progression into something that makes sense.

Upon reading this post again I like the system of having tier on weapons that inform the player that this weapon is only good against lvl 40+ enemies. It sounds by itself a sound solution worth developing. How would this work in Void Missions (lower level T1). Perhaps something in conjunction like placing a lock on low level missions, except for alerts. Then the new people can figure out how to play the game until they reach a higher level tier. The reason for the higher players is so the new players can ask for opinions and try them out for themselves. Correct me if I am wrong but never understood why players that have a higher playing such low level missions. Right know I am guilty of this but that is grind credits and I usually allow the lower players to take the lead. This just and idea that I am sure will be examined and explained too of why am wrong.Maybe things don't be an idiot this silly. Thank goodness that not all the people on this forum are so insulting.