Balancing Pvp - What Will Make Things More Reasonable

[Jax_Cavalera]

The following list covers areas that would make PvP more balanced.

 

This feedback is being provided in the hopes it will help the team tasked with improving PvP to get it closer to right first time around.

 

 

1.  Weapons like the Torid which are capable of dropping toxic spores over areas of the map need to be looking into further.  They currently can 1-hit kill level 30 players in PvP Solar Rail Conflicts the moment the player walks into range of the spore cloud.

 

There are 3 ways this could be resolved :

 

a.)  Reduce damage or the tick-rate that damage can be applied

b.)  Reduce the duration the cloud hangs around for significantly

c.)  Increase delay between how long shots are fired so there is a gap of at least 5 seconds where a single player spamming the weapon on an objective can't have the objective perma-locked down

 

I know it could be possible to shoot the player doing this.. unless they are camped in a corner with torrid cloud on the objective and also in the only spot you have a line-of-sight to get a shot at them from.

 

 

2.  Sniper weapons should take at least 2 hits to kill a player unless they deliver a headshot

 

To expand on this :  Sniper rifles that normally deliver a 1 hit kill would instead have a "slow-down" effect on players they hit.  This instantly nerfs hit players' speed by 50% for the next 5 or so seconds giving the sniper a chance at a 2nd shot.

 

If the hit player is in mid-air, they would come to a dead halt and begin falling the moment they are hit.

 

Also if the sniper lands a headshot I think that should be an insta-kill right there.

 

3.  Tick-Rate on beam weapons needs to be reduced for PvP so things like the Quanta don't become Instantaneous Death the second they touch an opponent.  Beams should be about tracking your target with damage ramping up the longer the target is tracked.

 

4.  Reduce the guarantee of being stunned when an enemy hits you with their melee weapon.  It is too easy for an enemy to stun-lock opponents with melee

 

5.  Slightly reduce the efficiency of how well melee block enemy fire.  It shouldn't be able to deflect everything you are throwing at them.. but should definitely be reducing damage taken.

 

6.  Fix up how mag and other targetable player abilities work so that you can use them even when there is no target.

 

These abilities should snap to the nearest target or if none is present they perform the move at exactly where the crosshair is pointed.  Mag Greedy Pull is literally a waste of a mod spot right now with the way her Pull works in PvP

 

7.  Nekros shouldn't be able to insta-revive downed team members back-to-back there needs to be a substantial cool-down on this or it is impossible to clear an area where you have 2 nekros and a tank like rhino.

 

 

That's all for now more will probably be added based on community feedback below the OP and if I run into other things as well.

 

In general really excited for PvP just hope that things like the above can be a little better balanced.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Jax_Cavalera

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I actually think with the Torid they should just make its shots big and slow. If someone walks into the big green cloud it's their fault if they die--provided they had time to dodge the shot in the first place.

[Senketsu_]

Aren't they completely reworking PvP with a dedicated team?

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

I agree with everything but the sniper one.

 

Vulkar takes more than 1 shot to kill someone in conclave

 

The only 1 shot snipers are the lanka, the vectis and the SniperTron Vandal

 

Since not many people have the ST Vandal lets exclude it for now

 

The lanka has a travel time and the vecits can only shoot once before it needs to be reloaded.

 

So having non 1 hit snipers is not a good idea since a player with decent parkour skills can easily evade the keen eye of a decent sniper.

 

Source: Somewhat Experienced Conclaver

Edited February 19, 2015 by DrOP_

[Jax_Cavalera]

I actually think with the Torid they should just make its shots big and slow. If someone walks into the big green cloud it's their fault if they die--provided they had time to dodge the shot in the first place.

I agree that someone walking into it kinda had it coming to them.  It would make things a bit difficult if both teams have 2 members trying to score the other sides flag and 2 spamming their own flag with torids.  kinda like a stalemate i guess

 

Aren't they completely reworking PvP with a dedicated team?

they are, that's why this topic is here so we can provide helpful feedback on things currently not ideal in PvP that should be avoided or resolved in the reworked pvp.

 

I agree with everything but the sniper one.

 

Vulkar takes more than 1 shot to kill someone in conclave

 

The only 1 shot snipers are the lanka, the vectis and the SniperTron Vandal

 

Since not many people have the ST Vandal lets exclude it for now

 

The lanka has a travel time and the vecits can only shoot once before it needs to be reloaded.

 

So having non 1 hit snipers is not a good idea since a player with decent parkour skills can easily evade the keen eye of a decent sniper.

 

Source: Somewhat Experienced Conclaver

 

Would it be more reasonable to change the sniper one as follows :

 

Sniper rifles that normall deliver a 1 hit kill would instead have a "slow-down" effect on players they hit.  This instantly nerfs hit players' speed by 50% for the next 5 or so seconds giving the sniper a chance at a 2nd shot.

 

If the hit player is in mid-air, they would come to a dead hault and being falling the moment they are hit.

 

Also if the sniper lands a headshot I think that should be an insta-kill right there.

 

I'm kinda basing this stuff from experience in games like BF3 where even the most brutal sniper rifle couldn't 1-shot you unless they got the headshot.

 

I realise in BF3 players can't wall-run or directional melee so taking that into account the added stun-effect so the hit player would have much more reduced movement speed for a short moment would kinda make it reasonable for a sniper to get a 2nd shot into them .. but also give the player a chance at not being 1-shot the moment a pixel of their character peeks around the corner of cover.

[.Talia.]

I don't know what you talking about, Pull is very strong in PvP, it is unavoidable, deals some damage and knocks down.

 

It is not targetable as you say, it is a cone-shaped AoE in addition to a small circular area around Mag, just like on PvE.

At least it used to be last time i played Mag... 

Edited February 19, 2015 by RexSol

[Jax_Cavalera]

 

 

I don't know what you talking about, Pull is very strong in PvP, it is unavoidable, deals some damage and knocks down.

 

It is not targetable as you say, it is a cone-shaped AoE in addition to a small circular area around Mag, just like on PvE.

 

 

they changed it recently to be like it was ages ago where it works on 1 target only and can't be used without a valid target on the reticle.

Edited February 19, 2015 by Jax_Cavalera

[.Talia.]

they changed it recently to be like it was ages ago where it works on 1 target only and can't be used without a valid target on the reticle.

 

I see. After reading this, i had to see it for myself and tested it, and it just gently pulls the target towards you... and... that's it! It doesn't deal damage, it doesn't knock down.This ability needs to be looked at because right now it is completely useless.

Edited February 19, 2015 by RexSol

[Jax_Cavalera]

I see. After reading this, i had to see it for myself and tested it, and it just gently pulls the target towards you... and... that's it! It doesn't deal damage, it doesn't knock down.This ability needs to be looked at because right now it is completely useless.

yeah man they have turned mag's pull into "trip" poor thing has nothing great going for it any more against the other 2 factions.  There's a post about her in Abilities.. feel free to offer support it's actually quite a sad state of affairs for her.

 

but yeah so a bit of a fix on mag and similar frames would be nice because having to target the enemy almost dead-on to get pull to work in pvp is pretty bad.  PvE it is stil la cone effect but only trips mobs not pulls them.. if you wanta frame that can pull enemies .. valkyr is the win atm does what mag does .. but better :(

Edited February 19, 2015 by Jax_Cavalera

[Feyangol]

The following list covers areas that would make PvP more balanced.

 

This feedback is being provided in the hopes it will help the team tasked with improving PvP to get it closer to right first time around.

 

 

1.  Weapons like the Torid which are capable of dropping toxic spores over areas of the map need to be looking into further.  They currently can 1-hit kill level 30 players in PvP Solar Rail Conflicts the moment the player walks into range of the spore cloud.

 

There are 3 ways this could be resolved :

 

a.)  Reduce damage or the tick-rate that damage can be applied

b.)  Reduce the duration the cloud hangs around for significantly

c.)  Increase delay between how long shots are fired so there is a gap of at least 5 seconds where a single player spamming the weapon on an objective can't have the objective perma-locked down

 

I know it could be possible to shoot the player doing this.. unless they are camped in a corner with torrid cloud on the objective and also in the only spot you have a line-of-sight to get a shot at them from.

 

 

2.  Sniper weapons should take at least 2 hits to kill a player unless they deliver a headshot

 

3.  Tick-Rate on beam weapons needs to be reduced for PvP so things like the Quanta don't become Instantaneous Death the second they touch an opponent.  Beams should be about tracking your target with damage ramping up the longer the target is tracked.

 

4.  Reduce the guarantee of being stunned when an enemy hits you with their melee weapon.  It is too easy for an enemy to stun-lock opponents with melee

 

5.  Slightly reduce the efficiency of how well melee block enemy fire.  It shouldn't be able to deflect everything you are throwing at them.. but should definitely be reducing damage taken.

 

6.  Fix up how mag and other targetable player abilities work so that you can use them even when there is no target.

 

These abilities should snap to the nearest target or if none is present they perform the move at exactly where the crosshair is pointed.  Mag Greedy Pull is literally a waste of a mod spot right now with the way her Pull works in PvP

 

7.  Nekros shouldn't be able to insta-revive downed team members back-to-back there needs to be a substantial cool-down on this or it is impossible to clear an area where you have 2 nekros and a tank like rhino.

 

 

That's all for now more will probably be added based on community feedback below the OP and if I run into other things as well.

 

In general really excited for PvP just hope that things like the above can be a little better balanced.

1.) Just ban Torid and so many other weapons ...

Opticor, Ogris, Penta

 

2.) Nope, Snipers should oneshot because the game is too fast for 2-shot snipers.

 

3.) Agreed.

 

4.) I'm fine with both ways ...

 

5.) Yes, and pls ban reflex.

 

6.) This is also a PvE problem ... it feels really bad to use this 1 target abilities :/ .

 

7.) Good idea.

[JPlayah]

From my experience participating in solar rail conflicts, I think that damage should just be lower all around. I thought that the reason weapons and frames start at low levels is to prevent people from getting insta-killed right from the beginning, but that's exactly what I see happening. As it stands right now, I don't see this system as being more player friendly than just loading people in with all of their weapon ranks and mods available. The damage is just overwhelming. I think that damage should be reduced across the board for all weapons by a large percentage, and then individual fixes can be made from there.

[JPlayah]

Also on the subject of solar rail conflicts, I feel like the actual pvp combat gets obscured by the sheer number of npc combatants (spectors, corrupted units, etc.) which appear on both sides. While those units do create the atmosphere of a large scale battle, there are so many of them that I rarely find myself encountering actual players. I also feel like these large numbers of units act as a crutch for the limitations of squad-based mechanics, which I'm guessing are the reason only 4 players can appear on each side of a solar rail conflict mission at once. Addressing this will allow for more players and fewer bots in a game, which I think will create a much more exciting atmosphere for everyone involved. Personally, I want to test my skills against other players, not just more spawned enemies. I get plenty of that in pve. At its heart, a good pvp environment pits players directly against each other in contests of skill. An example of a very successful team/mission-oriented pvp game is Team Fortress 2. Perhaps the developers could draw inspiration from that sort of gameplay. At the end of the day, the quality of a pvp matchup comes down to the interactions between players.

[ralifur]

Personally I would love to see pvp where pve doesnt have any sort of impact.

 

The thing that makes it spin out of control for me is the moba progression to unlocking ur mod decks which indeed is very overpowered due to the high percentages it affects and the crazy builds u can do.

 

I would love for them to take each weapon and balance them by adding a fixed mod deck to them which will unlock as u progress in pvp. Removes the customization by quite a bit but balances out the field by quite a bit more.

 

Yes it also splits pve and pvp apart to a degree but hey. u want balanced pvp without it effecting the pve? Or do u want pvp that gets balanced and pve ends up getting touched? Personally I would prefer the first one. :-)

[khazlol]

I am just wondering if prime gear will be equalized with normal gear in this update.(only in pvp ofc)

[Jax_Cavalera]

1.) Just ban Torid and so many other weapons ...

Opticor, Ogris, Penta

 

2.) Nope, Snipers should oneshot because the game is too fast for 2-shot snipers.

 

3.) Agreed.

 

4.) I'm fine with both ways ...

 

5.) Yes, and pls ban reflex.

 

6.) This is also a PvE problem ... it feels really bad to use this 1 target abilities :/ .

 

7.) Good idea.

 

 

Regarding he snipers situation, I put a bit of an expansion on this in the O.P now to explain what I mean which seems in line with what you are saying.  The first shot would probably do 75% of their life or something and induce a 50% reduction in movement speed.. similar to what happens when you are frozen or carry the Hobbled Dragon Key.  This lasts for 5 seconds which should be ample time for a good sniper to land that 2nd shot.. but also gives a player a chance to get behind cover if they were just peeking and the top pixel of their helm was shot.