Braton Prime > Synoid Gammacor

[letir]

My whole point of this thread was to poke fun at how DPs doesn't mean anything compared to armor and even the "most powerful gun" can't even stand up to armor, yet the primary/automatic with the highest status can kill higher level enemies infinitely faster than syngam if you're not using 4 CP

And it's your biggest mistake. Even without armor enemies have HP, and you still need DPS for killing.

Edited March 17, 2015 by letir

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

And it's your biggest mistake. Even without armor enemies have HP, and you still need DPS for killing.

yeah..? and..? im not disagreeing with you..?

 

ive said it multiple times that syngam obviously wins out with 4 cp otherwise braton prime will deal more dmg thanks to armor debuffering

[letir]

yeah..? and..? im not disagreeing with you..?

 

ive said it multiple times that syngam obviously wins out with 4 cp otherwise braton prime will deal more dmg thanks to armor debuffering

Otherwise you can't have Corrosive and Viral togethee, so Synoid G still kick &#! on most levels. Yeah, it can fall behind on very high levels, but nobody will go on "very high level" without 4 CP.

 

And your first point was:

"Due to braton primes ability to stack corrosive procs or viral if using 4 CP, along with its ridiculous slash procs, this gun will reverse scale and end up dealing more DMG than even the syngam thanks to debuffing the OP armor of warframe enemies."

 

This isn't true.

[Inarticulate]

And due to that you waste way more ammo and only about 20% of your procs will be worth anything compared to 50%, also you should pretty much never equip vile accel on weapon without inherent punchthrough since you will simply lose more dps than with shred and 2 targets lined up. On many occassions in both void defense and survival you will have from 3 to 7 targets lined up.

Ammo is infinite with pads and pads are cheap.

 

Why does is matter that only 20% of your procs are worth anything? Those 80% useless procs are not hurting you in any way. And the Synoid Gammacor's proc rate is a joke; you're better off going for damage.

 

Then even if we forget about procs, status build braton will get what?? 12k dps?? while status build synoid will get somewhere near 42k, nearly 3.5 times higher. No matter how you look at it, synoid is clear winner in all situations.

The status build Braton Prime sits at 23k DPS because it will proc Viral. The damage build Synoid Gammacor sits at 47k (or zero if the target is more than 25 meters away).

 

Want a decent status blaster?? try akmagnus, 19.3 rof with 99.5% status chance or cult classic marelok or vaykor, 100% status, all 3 will have better dps too.

You can't click 19 times per second without a macro or mouse wheel. The Akmagnus also has nowhere near the Braton Prime's sustained damage output.

 

Yes, the Marelok and Vaykor Marelok are better (comes out to somewhere around 35-40k sustained DPS when you include proc damage, assuming your target doesn't die). But that's not the point.

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

Otherwise you can't have Corrosive and Viral togethee, so Synoid G still kick ! on most levels. Yeah, it can fall behind on very high levels, but nobody will go on "very high level" without 4 CP.

And your first point was:

"Due to braton primes ability to stack corrosive procs or viral if using 4 CP, along with its ridiculous slash procs, this gun will reverse scale and end up dealing more DMG than even the syngam thanks to debuffing the OP armor of warframe enemies."

This isn't true.

So you're saying that infinitely scaling armor will not matter?

You're saying that stacking corrosive procs in order to reduce such infinitely scaled armor is not as efficient as using syngam against armor and just fighting them with their armor?

And yes even if you use 4 CP you're going to stack slash and fire procs like crazy so even if viral doesn't stack you should kill them before viral loses its effect

[Davoodoo]

 

Ammo is infinite with pads and pads are cheap.

 

Why does is matter that only 20% of your procs are worth anything? Those 80% useless procs are not hurting you in any way. And the Synoid Gammacor's proc rate is a joke; you're better off going for damage.

 

 

The status build Braton Prime sits at 23k DPS because it will proc Viral. The damage build Synoid Gammacor sits at 47k (or zero if the target is more than 25 meters away).

 

 

You can't click 19 times per second without a macro or mouse wheel. The Akmagnus also has nowhere near the Braton Prime's sustained damage output.

 

Yes, the Marelok and Vaykor Marelok are better (comes out to somewhere around 35-40k sustained DPS when you include proc damage, assuming your target doesn't die). But that's not the point.

 

Dude you cant count viral dps, it can give you a burst of 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 if you hit enemy which got twice as much hp, but you will still need to burn other half and thats why dps is important.

Top dps braton prime does 15k, reducing every element dmg by 1/3 will reduce dps.

 

If you find a single situation when you have nothing to shoot at 25m when other ppl are struggling to kill them then i ask what are you doing??

 

Akmagnus will have lower sustained dps but much higher burst and still 99.5% status and if you reached enemy lvls where you absolutely need viral you already used exploits and cheesy tactics, at this point i doubt mouse macro would be serious matter to you.

[Grulos]

I'm starting to feel that way.

Yes with 4 CP braton prime isn't that good but unless you are using 4 CP the corrosive procs debuffing armor will allow you to deal more dps than even the syn GAM.

I should've made that more clear in the op but its funny that a lot of people don't realize how powerful armor truly is.

By your logic every high status weapon beats every non-status weapon.

 

By that logic, the Tysis must be the best weapon in the game, far outclassing everything else because it deals corrosive procs every time.

Also, armor is not the only thing that skyrockets in high tier survival/defense. Health and shields do so, too.

 

And health/shield to not care about corrosive procs.

 

 

 

yeah..? and..? im not disagreeing with you..?

 

ive said it multiple times that syngam obviously wins out with 4 cp otherwise braton prime will deal more dmg thanks to armor debuffering

EVERY weapon with higher DPS than Braton Prime is BETTER than Braton Prime. This has been said countless times.

 

 

 

 

OP is an ignorant person and is confusing the living hell out of everyone. Some mod please lock this thread.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Grulos

[LazyKnight]

Dude you cant count viral dps, it can give you a burst of 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 if you hit enemy which got twice as much hp, but you will still need to burn other half and thats why dps is important.

It's counted as a reduction of remaining Time to kill. Counting it as DPS is fine (not ideal to do so, as TTK is clearer), as long as it is guaranteed that 100% upkeep can be maintained. The only hard math is due to randomness corresponding to how long on average it will take to get that first viral proc. 

Edited March 17, 2015 by LazyKnight

[Davoodoo]

It's counted as a reduction of remaining Time to kill. Counting it as DPS is fine (not ideal to do so, as TTK is clearer), as long as it is guaranteed that 100% upkeep can be maintained. The only hard math is due to randomness corresponding to how long on average it will take to get that first viral proc. 

Every second after viral proc will reduce total dps for this encounter until it normalizes at weapon dps.

No matter how high one time burst you will do, its dps will depend on length of the fight, it cant be counted due to that.

 

It reduces ttk by half at best, but you cant make general dps calculation for that.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Davoodoo

[LazyKnight]

Every second after viral proc will reduce total dps for this encounter until it normalizes at weapon dps.

No matter how high one time burst you will do, its dps will depend on length of the fight, it cant be counted due to that.

 

It reduces ttk by half at best, but you cant make general dps calculation for that.

Viral is a TTK/2 Proc (assuming that target can be killed in the window and it does not fall-off), DPS does not change and should not be consider as either burst damage or sustained damage to a target, as it is a health modifier. 

 

It's somewhat useful to call it DPS equivalent, due to and because of TTK. The reason for this is because a weapon that has 15k DPS (with viral) can match a weapon with 30kdps (roughly, no viral)  when viral's health modifier is considered on any target with any picked value of 'x' for health. This is true into infinite scaling, it makes no difference at all about burst damage they will take the same amount of time to kill the same target.

Edited March 17, 2015 by LazyKnight

[Davoodoo]

Viral is a TTK/2 Proc (assuming that target can be killed in the window and it does not fall-off), DPS does not change and should not be consider as either burst damage or sustained damage to a target, as it is a health modifier. 

 

It's somewhat useful to call it DPS equivalent, due to and because of TTK. The reason for this is because a weapon that has 15k DPS (with viral) can match a weapon with 30kdps (roughly, no viral)  when viral's health modifier is considered on any target with any picked value of 'x' for health. This is true into infinite scaling, it makes no difference at all about burst damage they will take the same amount of time to kill the same target.

Viral is health modifier, but when it procs it also reduces current hp to half of max hp effectively dealing dmg equal to 50% of hp - deficit from max, its up to ttk/2, if you can kill enemy with 1 or 2 shots then it doesnt reduce ttk at all, with 3 shots it reduces ttk by up to 1/6, 4 shots mean up to 1/4 of ttk reduction, 5 shots will give you at best 3/10.

Only case where it could act as substitute of double dps is when it proced before dmg even occured which never happens and youre only 1 dealing dmg which should never happen.

 

Then again, no matter what viral doesnt stack, you wont reduce hp below half with it so unless enemy can somehow heal its one time burst and pretty much every weapon can proc it when its truly worth using it, meaning that again viral status blaster is pointless and falls off even more when enemy hp raises.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Andruunicul]

DE , plz lock this thread for the sake of weapon safety , this thread makes everyone go nuts , LOCK IT , no more stupid threads

... Plz

[LazyKnight]

, meaning that again viral status blaster is pointless and falls off even more when enemy hp raises.

That is just wrong. Your conclusion is backwards; Viral is worthless on low TTK targets, and excels on higher TTK targets. The time it takes to activate viral lowers the DPS gains so it is not double DPS. The dps gains from viral is reduced from the initial point of doing damage to full health to the point where viral is applied, after the application the gains can be averaged. 

 

As I already said, the time to the first viral proc matters, highly, and this is not to say Braton Prime is even capable of reaching 2x (only way it would average close to 2x is if it was over a duration of 10 seconds or so). 2x dps is only achievable on weapons that can get viral on the first bullet. 

 

A weapon like marelok can  get Viral on the first trigger pull(with multi shot) with reliability, and it is one of the weapons that is worth using Viral on, at any NPC level. It will not gain 100% of 2x damage, but the difference is not material. 

Edited March 17, 2015 by LazyKnight

[Andruunicul]

Play wathever the fuckkk weapon You want as long as You enjoy IT

.....GEEEEZ ..... And don't You ever compare weapons and say what's better.... PLAY WITH WHAT YOU FUCKIN LIKE!

[Davoodoo]

That is just wrong. Your conclusion is backwards; Viral is worthless on low TTK targets, and excels on higher TTK targets. The time it takes to activate viral lowers the DPS gains so it is not double DPS. The dps gains from viral is reduced from the initial point of doing damage to full health to the point where viral is applied, after the application the gains can be averaged. 

 

As I already said, the time to the first viral proc matters, highly, and this is not to say Braton Prime is even capable of reaching 2x (only way it would average close to 2x is if it was over a duration of 10 seconds or so). 2x dps is only achievable on weapons that can get viral on the first bullet (from everything I have read, it applies Viral before damage). 

 

A weapon like marelok can  get Viral on the first trigger pull(with multi shot) with reliability, and it is one of the weapons that is worth using Viral on, at any NPC level. It will not gain 100% of 2x damage, but the difference is not material. 

if it takes 100 bullets to kill enemy, viral loses 1/50 of effectiveness per bullet fired, on 1000 thats 1/500 per bullet fired, on 10000, 1/5000, the less effectiveness it loses the better it is for low status weapons which will easily get that numbers back with higher dps

 

100 bullets without reloads is ~6.7 seconds for braton with speed trigger.

with 80% chance to proc and 20% chance for that to be viral, you will stastically waste 7 bullets before viral procs. meaning that your new ttk will be around 3 seconds shorter.

with 20% chance to proc and 20% for that to be viral you will waste 25 bullets for that proc, reducing your ttk by 2 seconds.

Difference is 1s

1000 bullets again without counting in reloads will then be ~67seconds.

status blaster braton will again use 7 bullets to proc viral, reducing ttk by 33s

non status braton will again use 25 bullets cutting ttk by ~32s

 

As number of bullets needed to kill raises difference between these lessens and even on 7s lifetime target its marginal and i havent yet counted in higher dps since getting 90% elementals instead of 60% ones will give us 25% higher dps reducing total ttk by about 20% and non status build was crippled by not accounting multishot.

 

Viral status blasters are pointless, leave status blasters for slash, toxin and gas.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Davoodoo

[LazyKnight]

Viral status blasters are pointless, leave status blasters for slash, toxin and gas.

The discussion was not about status event mods or using 90% mods. It was about how you were making the claim that Viral can not be expressed as DPS, are you backpedaling from that now? I was not comparing Viral verse another viral, just 15k with viral in effect to 30k with it not. Can you disprove anything I said or do you enjoy making stawman?

Edited March 18, 2015 by LazyKnight

[Davoodoo]

The discussion was not about status event mods or using 90% mods. It was about how you were making the claim that Viral can not be expressed as DPS, are you backpedaling from that now? I was not comparing Viral verse another viral, just 15k with viral in effect to 30k with it not. Can you disprove anything I said or do you enjoy making stawman?

As i pointed out, it cant be, its variable and thus cant be shown as general dps gain look at post #111.

 

And no, this whole thread is about how awesome weapon status blaster braton is due to corrosive and viral procs which clearly isnt true as i pointed out in #115.

Edited March 18, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Suthurn]

i have both a soma prime and braton prime with potato and enough forma to max them using status/damage mods. in my opinion the braton prime is a superior weapon for general game-play.

 

however, i have to disagree with the endless missions comments. any of the automatic weapons start having issues with ammo consumption once the enemies hit around level 50ish. they can kill the enemies, sure, but you run out of ammo consistently and require either a pocket-nekros or eat ammo restores like candy. 

 

if you are doing endless mode missions and can survive that long you really need to be looking at the high-damage per shot weapons that boast extreme ammo efficiency and learn to aim. 

[LazyKnight]

And no, this whole thread is about how awesome weapon status blaster braton is due to corrosive and viral procs which clearly isnt true as i pointed out in #115.

The premise of the topic about Braton prime being good at corrosive stripping is true. Since that requires just a high proc per second to achieve. Assuming wiki is right about how many Procs it takes to reduces a target to zero armor, it is around 20 application to get a health bar. The OP point about Synoid being horrid for corrosive would be true at high armor levels. It just proc to infrequently for it to even be remotely viable. 

 

The viral part, with corrosive projection, if the NPC are level +120, both would have Viral on the target long before it died. The only advantage braton prime could claim, would be that it got it applied on the target a second or two quicker.

[Nira]

Wow is this thread still going?

 

Reminds me of the time I tried fitting wheels to a tomato.

[LascarCapable]

Okay, the party ends here.