Chroma - Vex Armour Feedback

[Phyrak]

Hey all,

Just looking at Chroma's vex armour today.

It is effected by duration, strength and effiency - a very useful and strong ability

Giving additional damage and armour to chroma when his health and shields are damaged.

Problem:

Synergy with spectral scream and effigy.

Said abilities are your more 'draconic' abilities which do best under efficiency and any sort of duration is ineffective to them.

If ones aim is to create synergy within a warframes abilities - then a minor sacrifice may be of use but losing half a kit of abilities is too much.

Possible solution:

Instancing:

Like that of Rhino - one could turn vex armour on

Having it as a permanent armour/damage buff may been it may need a small nerf in some way.

Possible buffs which could occur by doing it this way.

- x2-x4 times damage % increase for spectral scream to make it a heavy damaging abiliy whilst granting increased move speed.

- damage multiplyer also applies to afterburn

- effigy health/armour/damage increased by armour/damage %. No extra multiplyer due to cc/decoy

What of current effects?:

-armour and damage buff moved to shields

-small energy/health regen added when health damaged in small AOE around chroma healing him/companions/squad mates

This would thereby increase Chroma's sustain and ability to support a squad more.

Side note: perhaps increase the duration of ward due to the lack of synergy with spectral scream and effigy too.

Thank you for reading,

-Phyrak

Edited March 23, 2015 by Phyrak

[Bibliothekar]

Wait, do I get this right: You are saying that, just because Spectral Scream and Effigy are unaffected by duration mods, they don't synergize well with Vex Armor, which is? That doesn't make any sense - at all!

[gabsenpai]

Wait, do I get this right: You are saying that, just because Spectral Scream and Effigy are unaffected by duration mods, they don't synergize well with Vex Armor, which is? That doesn't make any sense - at all!

I think OP meant that building Google Chroma with all abilities synerging between each other is impossible. I mean, his kit is basically similar to Mesa in terms of modding with the exception of Spectral Scream:

Building Duration for Ward+Vex doesnt affect Scream+Effigy, only making two abilities useful.

Building pure efficiency + damage for Scream+Effigy kills duration, only making two abilities useful

[Orbister]

you can choose to either be a vex armor specialist or an effigy or scream specialist, there will always be one ability which is stronger for your build because if all abilities are strong there is no choice nor purpose for building, i think vex could be "instanced" like you say just for a quality of life improvement though, in my case i cast it all the time and it gets a little annoying in long sessions even with duration mods, but i think it is ok that builds benefit only some abilities.

I think OP meant that building Google Chroma with all abilities synerging between each other is impossible. I mean, his kit is basically similar to Mesa in terms of modding with the exception of Spectral Scream:

Building Duration for Ward+Vex doesnt affect Scream+Effigy, only making two abilities useful.
Building pure efficiency + damage for Scream+Effigy kills duration, only making two abilities useful

Most frames if not all have this "contradictory" design features, this leads to specialized builds. 

[Phyrak]

I think OP meant that building Google Chroma with all abilities synerging between each other is impossible. I mean, his kit is basically similar to Mesa in terms of modding with the exception of Spectral Scream:

Building Duration for Ward+Vex doesnt affect Scream+Effigy, only making two abilities useful.

Building pure efficiency + damage for Scream+Effigy kills duration, only making two abilities useful

you can choose to either be a vex armor specialist or an effigy or scream specialist, there will always be one ability which is stronger for your build because if all abilities are strong there is no choice nor purpose for building, i think vex could be "instanced" like you say just for a quality of life improvement though, in my case i cast it all the time and it gets a little annoying in long sessions even with duration mods, but i think it is ok that builds benefit only some abilities.

Most frames if not all have this "contradictory" design features, this leads to specialized builds.

I am indeed talking about it as a QoL change

The hope is to increase potential effectiveness of both builds - much like that of Mesa OP

[[DE]Momaw]

I think OP meant that building Google Chroma with all abilities synerging between each other is impossible.

 

Most frames if not all have this "contradictory" design features, this leads to specialized builds. 

 

Exactly.  I don't see a problem here. You can benefit all of his abilities by using ordinary mods like Streamline and Continuity, or choose to specialize by going for max duration (narrow minded) or efficiency (fleeting expertise), depending what you want to do with him.  Building Rhino for max stomp spam makes his Roar and Charge pointess. Building Nekros for max desecrate maxes his Shadows and Terrify pointless. Building Excalibur for max javelin makes his everything pointless.

 

You can have a good everything, or the best of one something, not both. Balance. Player choice. Etc.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Momaw

[Phyrak]

Exactly.  I don't see a problem here. You can benefit all of his abilities by using ordinary mods like Streamline and Continuity, or choose to specialize by going for max duration (narrow minded) or efficiency (fleeting expertise), depending what you want to do with him.  Building Rhino for max stomp spam makes his Roar and Charge pointess. Building Nekros for max desecrate maxes his Shadows and Terrify pointless. Building Excalibur for max javelin makes his everything pointless.

 

You can have a good everything, or the best of one something, not both. Balance. Player choice. Etc.

By using efficiency - you lose out on the usefulness of elemental ward - yet vs going duration for making 2/3 effective. Half the kit is lost

Hence why I'm proposing these vex armour changes as a midground to both builds

[Bouldershoulder]

You can as well build him like ths

 

I will switch aura polarity to naramon (-) to put enemy radar there, and fill empty slots with redirection and vitality.

So it gives max power strength and near default other parameters. How is that bad?

[WolfgangHype]

My problem with Chroma is not all his abilities seem worthwhile. Vex Armor and Elemental ward are pretty good, if dull. However I don't really have much reason to use the other abilities. Spectral Scream especially seems worthless. Low proc chance compared to most other Warframe abilities, extremely short distance, low damage, and crippling. I could spec for it, but I don't really know why I would. Effigy is a bit better, at least worth using for the AoE stun and a little extra damage output. However, I don't really see it being more useful than his other abilities.

 

If I don't spec for Vex armor it pretty much becomes useless, unless I know I'll be taking a lot of hits in a very short amount of time, since you need duration to have time to build up the benefits and then take advantage of them. Elemental ward gives you full benefits immediately so it's not as bad, but shines if you've specced for Vex Armor.

 

IMO even if you're not specced for them every ability should have some use. True you should have some tradeoff for different builds, but you should have a reason to take different builds and a use for their abilities. Take for example Volt: I build for duration most of the time, so I have a long Speed/Electric Shield, but even with this build his Shock is still amazing as a quick stun and Overload is good for larger groups. Conversely speccing for power or efficiency might tank their duration, however Speed is still useful because it can scale off power as well, and Electric Shield lasting even a few seconds can save your life.

[Phyrak]

You can as well build him like ths

 

I will switch aura polarity to naramon (-) to put enemy radar there, and fill empty slots with redirection and vitality.

So it gives max power strength and near default other parameters. How is that bad?

Yes, but not everyone has every mod and especially mods at such high gain

That aim is for QoL and synergy within the frame.

Would this give both synergy and QoL? Yes!

Would it require all the mods you have there to make it effective - especially for those relatively new to the game/not having many mods? No!

[Phyrak]

My problem with Chroma is not all his abilities seem worthwhile. Vex Armor and Elemental ward are pretty good, if dull. However I don't really have much reason to use the other abilities. Spectral Scream especially seems worthless. Low proc chance compared to most other Warframe abilities, extremely short distance, low damage, and crippling. I could spec for it, but I don't really know why I would. Effigy is a bit better, at least worth using for the AoE stun and a little extra damage output. However, I don't really see it being more useful than his other abilities.

 

If I don't spec for Vex armor it pretty much becomes useless, unless I know I'll be taking a lot of hits in a very short amount of time, since you need duration to have time to build up the benefits and then take advantage of them. Elemental ward gives you full benefits immediately so it's not as bad, but shines if you've specced for Vex Armor.

 

IMO even if you're not specced for them every ability should have some use. True you should have some tradeoff for different builds, but you should have a reason to take different builds and a use for their abilities. Take for example Volt: I build for duration most of the time, so I have a long Speed/Electric Shield, but even with this build his Shock is still amazing as a quick stun and Overload is good for larger groups. Conversely speccing for power or efficiency might tank their duration, however Speed is still useful because it can scale off power as well, and Electric Shield lasting even a few seconds can save your life.

I'm much the same with my volt - hence this thread

Volt has minor trade offs yet still enough utility and damage potential to survive on both duration and efficiency builds

Where as chroma does not if - it's either one or none

If you go for duration - effigy and spectral scream are close to useless

If you for efficiency - elemental ward and vex armour are close to useless

Yet - if vex armour were instances and got changes as with above.

The changes to the frame would be phenomenal.

Allowing for making spectral scream useful at higher levels, effigy would continue as a cc and ward would continue bring brillant if it got some additional duration as a way of moving the duration off vex to ward

Thank you for your support :)

[Bouldershoulder]

Yes, but not everyone has every mod and especially mods at such high gain

That aim is for QoL and synergy within the frame.

Would this give both synergy and QoL? Yes!

Would it require all the mods you have there to make it effective - especially for those relatively new to the game/not having many mods? No!

Yesterday I was doing survival against infested on jupiter, with only duration, shields, and health, wielding dragon nikana / scindo prime. Felt pretty comfortable. 50% status on spectral scream is enough for CC. And I felt myself like really durable, 'cause in 4 or 5 runs (I didn't count, starting from rank 15) for 20+ minutes I got downed only 1 or 2 times, when a toxic breathed my back to death.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Bouldershoulder

[Phyrak]

Yesterday I was doing survival against infested on jupiter, with only duration, shields, and health, wielding dragon nikana / scindo prime. Felt pretty comfortable. 50% status on spectral scream is enough for CC. And I felt myself like really durable, 'cause in 4 or 5 runs (I didn't count, starting from rank 15) for 20+ minutes I got downed only 1 or 2 times, when a toxic breathed my back to death.

Would said buff/change above increase your survivability?

Probably - the damage/movement buff to spectral scream would further do you well with cc and damage

The potential of this frame is immense - yet it's the frames lack of synergy which holds it back

[nekrojiji]

Learn how to build your frames 

[Bouldershoulder]

Would said buff/change above increase your survivability?

Probably - the damage/movement buff to spectral scream would further do you well with cc and damage

The potential of this frame is immense - yet it's the frames lack of synergy which holds it back

You are trying to decompose a solid piece into composites and change them separately. E=mc² (thank you, mr. Albert).

E (energy) is the total performance of the warframe, m - its abilities, c - their power. If you want to change one ability, the other also have to be changed.

 

My survivability depends on my skills in the first place, and on the warframe's abilities in the second, and I'm fine with the current state of Chroma's abilities.

[Phyrak]

Learn how to build your frames

Because attacking someone based upon an idea for QoL for an ability to increase synergy is good means to do so

You are trying to decompose a solid piece into composites and change them separately. E=mc² (thank you, mr. Albert).

E (energy) is the total performance of the warframe, m - its abilities, c - their power. If you want to change one ability, the other also have to be changed.

 

My survivability depends on my skills in the first place, and on the warframe's abilities in the second, and I'm fine with the current state of Chroma's abilities.

Indeed - but sometimes using abilities can help too.

The aim is for synergy within the frame

I do appreciate your Einstein reference though

[Draciusen]

You're implying that Chroma doesn't have enough synergy within his abilities, but he does. Warframe min-max modding is designed to be balanced around the idea that you cannot boost everything up at once. Modding for a specific power will have drawbacks on other ones.

 

Vex Armor is an incredibly powerful ability. Effigy is also extremely powerful. Vex Armor promotes a more mobile, on-the-go playstyle that emphasizes being on the front lines and wreaking havoc there. Effigy promotes a more defensive turret style of gameplay, keeping within the range of your pelt while darting around and being a slippery yet still lethal enemy.

 

Elemental Ward however, can work quite well with either playstyle and both mod builds, especially if you take full advantage of his unique elementals.

 

I don't want to go too in-depth with how his abilities mesh well together since it's better for you to reach that conclusion on your own, but Vex Armor not synergizing with Effigy is likely intended and I agree with it. You cannot, and should not have the best of both worlds, that would be broken.

[Phyrak]

You're implying that Chroma doesn't have enough synergy within his abilities, but he does. Warframe min-max modding is designed to be balanced around the idea that you cannot boost everything up at once. Modding for a specific power will have drawbacks on other ones.

 

Vex Armor is an incredibly powerful ability. Effigy is also extremely powerful. Vex Armor promotes a more mobile, on-the-go playstyle that emphasizes being on the front lines and wreaking havoc there. Effigy promotes a more defensive turret style of gameplay, keeping within the range of your pelt while darting around and being a slippery yet still lethal enemy.

 

Elemental Ward however, can work quite well with either playstyle and both mod builds, especially if you take full advantage of his unique elementals.

 

I don't want to go too in-depth with how his abilities mesh well together since it's better for you to reach that conclusion on your own, but Vex Armor not synergizing with Effigy is likely intended and I agree with it. You cannot, and should not have the best of both worlds, that would be broken.

My Mesa,Oberon,Saryn, volt, ash and mag all have very good synergy with very few drawbacks - losing half a kit is something else

Out of all the frames above - only saryns venom gets the least use due to its short duration.

Of which - venom should be instanced just like iron skin and said feedback above about vex armor to increase kit synergy.

[gabsenpai]

My Mesa,Oberon,Saryn, volt, ash and mag all have very good synergy with very few drawbacks - losing half a kit is something else

Out of all the frames above - only saryns venom gets the least use due to its short duration.

Of which - venom should be instanced just like iron skin and said feedback above about vex armor to increase kit synergy.

Hey OP, after playing around builds (after 5 formas on Chroma later...), It is possible to make use of both Ward+Vex along with Effigy. The build is a little expensive due its needs for primed mods but it makes all 3 of these abilities useful escept Spectral Breath (explained later). Build is as follows:

Polarities: x1 V, x1 Dash, x2 D

Primed Continuity: R10

Primed Flow: R10

Narrowminded: R10

Fleeting expertise: R3 for 70% efficiency along with maxed Streamline, or R4 with R4 Streamline - Lesser duration for more efficiency, your choice

Streamline: Check Notes ^

Rage: R5

Vitality: R10

Steel fiber: R10

With this build, you can maximize both Power duration (about 50+ seconds using Ward+Vex) and efficiency to keep Effigy out. You lose range for both Spectral Scream and Ward but Effigy will be unaffected. Better used with Ice element since it seems to be unaffected by range but otherwise, if you're in for the bonus buffs from elements than their AoE counterpart, any element is viable. Strength us not needed much as this build's focus is to tank hits with high duration Vex and gain prolonged buffs with Ward while Effigy draws aggro away from your squad.