De And Warframe Through Time And Why I Am Dropping My Support From This Game

[Temfist]

OP, I get your points, you've grown tired of the formula, that's essentially what your saying.

 

you seem too be unfamiliar with the idea of power creep, which is what is starting too happen with Warframe. It would be fine if mastery ranks actually separated the weapons you could use into tiers but like you said, but it's hard too expect them too divert too many of their limited time and resources too that when they are on a weekly schedule. It'd take a while for DE too figure that out for everything, so in the meanwhile we just have a very loose system where some of the new "better" weapons have a Mastery Rank req, and anything like the Warframes are merely separated by acquisition difficulty, which I understand and don't have a problem with myself, they are new content in a game with level progression, they can't all be accessible at starting levels.

 

the new Conclaves are an opportunity for DE to figure out things with balancing, which will take time, but it's there. Levels being repetitive is a dull point, the game uses randomly assembled tilesets in order to avoid the exact same argument on the opposite spectrum, "even hand crafted, the same levels would get repetitive", it's just a preference, but I will admit, hand crafted stages carry a level of atmosphere, enviornmental story telling narrative, and design that gives them replay value, something that is very hard too accomplish with tilesets. It is for this reason that I hope some day in the future that DE could hand craft Assassination levels, so that they are always the same, thus giving them more of a "boss stage" feel, rather then just being an impersonal tileset.

 

as far as Warframe Designs, DE has a system, and they have their own hired artists, of course they are gonna take personal liberties when approaching fan concepts, even if the fan concept already seemingly fit the games aesthetic. Either way, I actually really like the way they designed Chroma, I think it's far more creative then the concept art for a generic dragon frame, as cool as the cliche Man/Dragon figure is (though I will say Chroma's move kit still needs some work, Vex Armor and his Ultimate skill are way too circumstantial). It's also not impossible for them to make another Dragon like frame in the future, Warframe seemingly has a very long life span ahead of it. I wouldn't mind seeing a Gargoyle Warframe with a similar physique as the dragon one, and have it with an ability too hold the jump button and glide at the cost of stamina....maybe I'll draw that up and submit it....

 

really, what I want too know is, why did you feel it was necessary too start this thread with a seemingly click bait title if you didn't want to get "Flamed"? all you needed too do was just take a break from the game, come back later if you feel like it, but instead you came on here and said you were quitting, seemingly for reasons that we should all be aware of and possibly agree with? Just sayian bruh

[noveltyhero]

-snip-

I am more than familiar with powercreep, I've seen every dark corner of it. Not being able to play some content without certain items I do not yet have, not being able to complete some content simply because my loadout is the one I enjoy using rather than the one that 1 hits everything etc.

 

What I mainly meant is that DE continues to be (or seem like it) without a proper plan for tackling the issues within this game and it is starting to show a lot. Yes I am tired of the formula.

 

As for posting this, I was leaving the last of my opinions shared openly to the community, I knew some people would flame as it is always the case but I also wanted to let the developers know why. Yes I could just stop playing, but for me it would feel like wasted time if I didn't say why considering I gave my opinions on so many other things..you know, consistency :)

[DSpite]

TL;DR

 

Warframe is not broken enough to justify these kind of threads. You log in, collect some basic stuff, go out, and you blow stuff up. The rest is optional.

 

---

 

So what is the difference between this game and Borderlands? I fail to see how a game can stay fresh after 500+ hours of playtime.

 

I have countless hours in Borderlands 1 and 2. I've run god knows how many Terrorist Hunt missions in Vegas 2 with mates, I poured around 700h in Global Agenda PVE missions with mates. All of those activities were and still ARE, repetitive and dull as all hell, and yet, they are still entertaining enough to shut down the parts of your brain that is screaming "you have already done this 1000 times today". That is the factor that makes a game you can pump 1000+ hours into, not the things you can collect, not the rewards, not the long term goals. You play these games so as not to do other things, like vacuum the house, or think that you have to work late tomorrow.

 

There is really nothing to defend or to complain about a game that is free to play, and hands you, quite easily, about 200 hours AT LEAST of possible game play. Zero dollars. Zero.

 

Too many people seem to treat WF like some pay-per-month MMO and expect everything to be constantly tweaked to their expectations. That line of thinking is so broken, it's not even worth talking about. Did you squeeze out a few hundred hours of entertainment? Yes? Mission accomplished. Everything else DE can possibly do on top of that is just icing.

 

The way to look at ANY game, is to look at it from a new player prospective, pretending that you are playing for the first time, not someone that has collected basically everything, stuck 6 Forma on the most already powerful guns in the game, and now considers 1 hour+ T4 Endless missions the only challenge.

 

It's a free game for goodness sake. Play it, don't play it. And on the topic of "grind", that word is generally meant to mean "being forced to do extremely repetitive things to progress in the game". Since It's been proven time and time again that the game is perfectly playable all the way through all of it's content with starter Frames and weapons purchased and assembled from credits and normal drops via the market, Alerts, and login rewards, the only "grind" is for bling.

 

As far as the OP, NoveltyHero, I just checked his stats. He has 733 mission hours. I have a combined total of over 1000 hours over 2 accounts, my main one that I got as a Rhino Prime pack, and one I started when the Liset update come out, in order to "replay" the Star Chart, an account that I meta-game on and keep Plat free where I main an Excalibur with a Glaive (around the 80% usage), to mimic the "Dark Sector" theme of the original game.

 

I clocked up 350+ hours on the Excalibur account alone (650+) on my main, before I reached a point where I had a decent run of Frames (Excalibur, Loki and a Vauban) to cover everything, and around 15 guns - to which DE keeps giving me new ones, which I normally rank up and sell for extra free slots - before I took a break and went to play other games.

 

I can make my own balance, I can pick my own missions, and I can even decide which friends I want to run with in order to control how I want the mission to pan out. What exactly is there to dislike?

 

Is this game repetitive? Yes. Are there balance issues? Of course. Would I change a ton of things if I was in charge? Hell yes.

 

Does this game entertain me enough to login, pick random stuff and go blow away faceless AI enemies? Hell yea. It's like an upgraded version of Global Agenda/Borderlands hybrid for me.

 

If you can't create your fun, you are playing it wrong.

Edited March 29, 2015 by DSpite

[Temfist]

I am more than familiar with powercreep, I've seen every dark corner of it. Not being able to play some content without certain items I do not yet have, not being able to complete some content simply because my loadout is the one I enjoy using rather than the one that 1 hits everything etc.

 

What I mainly meant is that DE continues to be (or seem like it) without a proper plan for tackling the issues within this game and it is starting to show a lot. Yes I am tired of the formula.

 

As for posting this, I was leaving the last of my opinions shared openly to the community, I knew some people would flame as it is always the case but I also wanted to let the developers know why. Yes I could just stop playing, but for me it would feel like wasted time if I didn't say why considering I gave my opinions on so many other things..you know, consistency :)

ok well thats totally fair. I hope I didn't come off as condescending at all, I was just being critical of your reasoning, which I assumed you fully expected. DE, for a small indie team, does seem too have possibly shot themselves in the foot to some degree by committing too the insane update schedule they have. I haven't seen any other F2P games put out nearly as many updates, and LoL is the most played game in the world with Riot hiring outside help like it's going out of style.

 

DE's commitment too "new" is commendable, but I do sometimes wish they would slow down, give us all a little more time to savor well thought decision making and bake those updates in the oven until their golden brown, etc. I love Warframe and how it's universe has been evolving lately, and look forward too what else DE does with it, especially what risks they will take. that said, I totally get how DE's inability to progress the games RNG with things like a token system is frustrating. Just imagine what the game was like prior too the Trading system, and how big a deal that was once it was established. Ironically, I think one of the hardest things warframe dealt with back in the day was that it seemed like they had not Market Tested the platinum costs of the market items, cause I couldn't ever see myself wasting plat on anything other then cosmetics.

 

They are better now, but I still feel like Warframe could use Market 2.0 update, or at least make spending platinum in the market seem accumulative and worth the investment over time, etc. (Bundles and Darvo Sales are good, but the rest of the market just sits there looking stupid by comparison) anyway, thats fine, I hope you find another fun game for a hobby, and if not, your always welcome back.

[MechaKnight]

-snip-

Solid reply. Warframe is an interesting kind of game that doesn't feel like a forced MMO experience--it simply feels like one if you're a perfectionist.

 

To veterans like me, there's a lot of meta game that flows around banking platinum, learning stat meta, comparing gear thousands of times over, and playing for optimal gains.

 

However, this is in fact a free game. It does technically support free players over time by giving them event gear and allowing players to participate in the market that generates and moves platinum around. You can get the full gist of the game just by reaching maybe Venus or Earth, but you can also keep playing to have more fun farther into the system.

 

I'm conflicted on Warframe for two outstanding reasons: I really do like the game and the growing content within, but the meta game is sometimes more bizarre than I care for. Multiple accounts for banking event rewards, weapon and enemy vital calculations that can allow players to stand in a corner for nearly two hours in survival. It mostly centers around the issues of imbalance and reward incentive. Some things aren't worth using, some things are too good compared to the rest, and if you don't limit your player meta you can burn out really quickly.

 

I still like the game, but sometimes I take a step back, think about the gameplay meta, and choose to either take a break or play solo in creative ways. A lot of this is burdened on balance from my perspective.

[Onisa]

~snip~

Hey DSpite, sounds like you should have summed up your TL;DR as "I'm fine with an inferior product as long as I get some giggles out of it".

And I suppose with 1400 hours in mission on just my main means my opinion weighs more than yours, huh?

[MechaKnight]

Hey DSpite, sounds like you should have summed up your TL;DR as "I'm fine with an inferior product as long as I get some giggles out of it".

And I suppose with 1400 hours in mission on just my main means my opinion weighs more than yours, huh?

So many good opinions. I also have about 1.2k hours on my main. I'll keep reading but my stance in summary:

 

I think the game is fun but the lack of polish ruins the illusion for me.

[Evanescent]

Hey DSpite, sounds like you should have summed up your TL;DR as "I'm fine with an inferior product as long as I get some giggles out of it".

And I suppose with 1400 hours in mission on just my main means my opinion weighs more than yours, huh?

That is not what he ( or she) said at all. Dspite meant that sometimes people expect too much from DE given their resources and what the players invest\, from my understanding. And He does raise some good point. It is not at all bad that DE gives us enough of a good time to expect great things from them but sometimes the expectations run to high and people are disappointed. There is progress in warframe. The game has just begun to find its footing. Say DE does dedicate a whole update to balancing, no new content. The backlash of no new content to play would be crippling,

 

What DE does, in my opinion need to do is the find the fine line between balancing and releasing new stuff. They haven't got there yet and will probably struggle for a long time but by Gof, they are trying, and it shows. Which is why in my 2 years playing warframe and 1000+hours of playtime I have never once been bored or burnt out. 

[climatiseur]

 

In conclusion

 

I understand making a game is hard, but the forums here tell you step by step what to do and you still can't do it? Sorry DE, bye bye.

 

... feel like I am working when playing games.

 

 

Exactly.  I feel that the current situation of community dividing into 2 big groups (The tune down everything vs don't touch anything) is the result of DE ignoring the core problems of the games for so long. I wasn't around when the game was young but I read on the forum and can imagine how was it be like.

 

And also seeing how the PvP is working now, I kinda hope the PVE can have that kind of feeling - everything is powerful but with limitations, and you actually need tactics to play. (Pvp is not perfect right now but it's close to what I am looking for in the game)

 

The only way to achieve that is tuning down everything we have right now - frames abilities, weapons' power, as well as enemies powers and level scaling. When everything is too powerful, the problem of "being oneshoted or one shooting everything" arise. That's why a complete overhaul is needed. But I really doubt if they would pay this effort to do that, besides, some players like the way it is right now.

Edited March 29, 2015 by climatiseur

[Onisa]

That is not what he ( or she) said at all. Dspite meant that sometimes people expect too much from DE given their resources and what the players invest\, from my understanding. And He does raise some good point. It is not at all bad that DE gives us enough of a good time to expect great things from them but sometimes the expectations run to high and people are disappointed. There is progress in warframe. The game has just begun to find its footing. Say DE does dedicate a whole update to balancing, no new content. The backlash of no new content to play would be crippling,

 

What DE does, in my opinion need to do is the find the fine line between balancing and releasing new stuff. They haven't got there yet and will probably struggle for a long time but by Gof, they are trying, and it shows. Which is why in my 2 years playing warframe and 1000+hours of playtime I have never once been bored or burnt out. 

 

Really? Then whatever could lines like this possibly mean?

There is really nothing to defend or to complain about a game that is free to play, and hands you, quite easily, about 200 hours AT LEAST of possible game play. Zero dollars. Zero.

 

This entire argument can be summed up as playing in the ball pit for a few hours until you found the dirty diaper. But why hassle the attendants with cleaning it up, you got plenty of enjoyment up until the discovery, right?

 

But maybe I'm just old fashioned. I expect to get quality in what I pay for, not just throw money at something an hope it's good.

 

At least half of the backlash would be removed if they bothered to tell us before hand. That seems to be the sin of choice lately for the Dev team.

[TheBrsrkr]

Sigh.....even more Founders and old players leaving. When will it end?

 

Good luck to you in your future endeavors noveltyhero. I hope you find exactly what you're looking for.

[ComfyOlivia]

Good luck wherever you go, OP! I've been feeling similarly lately. It just seems like a continuous cycle of "Oh, yea, we'll look at it" or "Sure maybe", and then having either nothing happen, or half-assed "balancing".

 

A great example is the Kohm. It was bad at first, then they made it great, and then because it was made in a way that killed people's FPS, they moved some things around, and the gun isn't even noteworthy. Again.

 

Honestly, I'd be in the same boat as you, OP, if I had another game to go to. I just don't enjoy many games that I can't get over 100 hours out of, and there aren't a lot of decent ones out there that do that.

 

Kinda off topic here:

 

I'm more on the side of the game should be entertaining me, not the other way around. The game and DE should be giving me a reason to care. That's how things are. Yes, it sounds really entitled, but Warframe is not just some stick you found on the ground while camping. Warframe is a product that DE created the way they wanted to be. You don't have to imagine it's something else, like with the stick. This is because one is meant to entertain, while the other is not.

 

In the end, this is something DE needs to sell to us to keep themselves going. Just like any other product out there. If you buy a high quality car, the manufacturer gave you a reason to want it. Again, just like any other product.

 

It all sounds entitled, blah blah blah. Like I said, though, this is a product. A product that needs to be sold. 

[Katakuna]

Killing Floor 2 can not come soon enough for me.

 

Damn straight.  As soon as KF2's Early Access is released, I'm out of here.  No looking back.

 

Maybe I'll see you in those greener pastures someday, OP.

[Sziklamester]

Good points what you OP said. Yep the game is getting worser but this game was a bad idea from the earliest time, when they added some useless mods and then they decided not to touch them, so everyone use the same rainbow mods. They make so much mistakes and they doesn't learn enough from these critics.

 

Somehow they need change their direction and do a veeery huge visit in their systems because a lot of rage threads coming and veteran and long timer casuals will leave the game if they not try to kick their game in the right direction. I will play with this game when i have mood I never will stop it maybe but there is a lot of games what charming me and new games coming always.

 

Killing Floor 2 is a good point, Bannerlord 2 (if they release it someday) would be nice and there is the No Man's sky so there are a lot of choice. My pc refreshing soon happen and then I am ready for the new stuffs and works again.

 

With all my power.

[Lukap99]

Look yonder newcomers, there goes a hero.

Huehueheuhe

 

In a more serious matter (or at least as serious as you can get with video games without getting crazy), I definitely feel like Warframe has lost the charm it had when I first started playing it. Even the old frozen planet defense missions don't feel as good as they once did. (They also look really bleak compared to our hyper saturated frames). The only time I feel like warframe is becoming 'alive' again is when I'm playing some of the quests and the interaction of characters (Ordis needs more love).

It was definitely more engaging (and easier with the old starchart) to plan out our mission beforehand and co-operate with what auras we use.
Now it feels like a race to see who gets more kills, like in COD.

 

 

I'm definitely not burned out yet, because of the slower pace at which I progress and gain items in the game, as well as my anticipation of parkour 2.0. But it honestly feels like I'm nearing the edge.

Well, I'm a bit saddened to see you leaving Noveltyhero. Perhaps someday you will return to see what DE has done to improve this game. Until then, goodbye.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Lukap99

[holdenagincourt]

I think a lot of people can find something to agree with in the original topic. I certainly can, and I just started playing again regularly after only doing events for the prior 5+ months.

 

I agree with the person who said that the Corrupted mods were the beginning of a bad trend in the game's design, with energy pads, Primed mods, Natural Talent, augments etc. just extending the spiral. Fleeting Expertise was an especially terrible addition that forced a titanic number of changes to powers to accommodate its existence. It's strange, I thought part of the reason Mods 2.0 was developed for U7 was that too many of the same stacking bonuses were getting piled onto frames and unbalancing them.

 

I also agree with the person who said that Warframe needs a dedicated balance team. I'm not sure how the balance process works there (it's probably not just Scott even though it seems that way from watching the devstreams) but the amount of moving parts is really extreme at this point and it would help to have all hands on deck to sort these things out. Something that is clear by now is that balance and grind can't be pulled apart and approached separately. They are in a mutually reinforcing relationship and DE seems to feel they have to hold the line on the grind because players have streamlined farming (no pun intended) too well. I for one am willing to eat the pain of a lot of nerfs if that means the grind can be toned down, with less RNG and more skill- and difficulty-based obstacles.

[Lightsmith]

I agree with Fan Concepts, there are so many there but it feels like DE just purposefully avoids them. Other than a few instances in the distant past.

[Bibliothekar]

sometimes people expect too much from DE given their resources and what the players invest

DE makes enough money with Warframe by now to have 120+ people working on it. How much larger does the company have to grow until we finally get a flipping balance team for PvE content?

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

Can i haz teh excal prime? D:

 

I agree with all points though, mainly the balance thing, we are either 1 hit killed or we 1 hit kill. I want that sweet in between spot, rawr.

 

I liked chroma's first design, i like the second too but the second is way further from a dragon than the first. I agree on the hydroid thing too lol.

 

Didn't read the grind part as i'll sefishly admit it doesn't affect me. :s

[ItWasntMeIPromise]

Balance issues

You know all these balancing issues we have? They were practically non-existent, because there wasn't anything OP, the game constantly felt like it scaled with you, as you got more mods you became more powerful but so did the enemies which felt really nice.

That is how a lot of MMOs feel like, you go back to help level 1 players and you are a god, at that tier. Now it became a game of "Am I or am I not?" ( a god), because it is very rare that you have to plan something with your team. You go out of cover you get one shot'ed regardless of strength or you go out of cover and you can stay AFK, have a coffee come back and your character is still standing.

 

We also didn't have energy restores and abilities weren't overpowered because of that, energy was more rare and we didn't one hit kill everything with our weapons. Of course time passed and we became more and more reliant on these "strategies", so obviously the community would use these. Can you blame the people who made 50 spreadsheets for maximum effectiveness in combat or DE who consistently ignored this growing issue?

 

My point is, if DE wants complete balance, they need to dedicate a whole major update for it, strip everything down and build it back up with strong foundations as they are doing with PVP.

 

Hey OP sorry to see you go,

I am also a warframe veteran. I agree with all your points. The grind has become so bad and the drops system is so broken I often finish a mission (the same missions I've done x100) and wonder why I keep playing.

 

I only disagree with the issues around balance. I've spent about a couple hours in PVP and it felt like DE attempt to create a cheap Loadout, COD or Tribes like game without any of the charm that made warframe appealing. Even stripped of my favorite weapons and abilities. After one or two rounds I found it very easy. Not because I'm good or anything but by lowering warframes diverse nature they made it exceptionally easy to find the few strategies that worked time and time again (Just like MP in Halo 1 - 3 and COD 1 & 2).

 

Also weakening players had the counter intuitive effect of lowering team play. I'm not sure if anyone else had this same experience but I was getting 6 - 10 kill streaks within 10 minutes of playing.

 

My point is no matter what DE does to make a equal playing field, they will never make players equal. The best they can hope to do is give players deserve sets of strategies and circumstances so players can discover what works best for them.

 

IMO the answer to play balance is more challenging enemies and the answer to grind it better rewards for defeating them.

Edited March 30, 2015 by ItWasntMeIPromise

[Mirriky]

Just had a friend link this to me.

 

I fully agree with this post and highlights every reason I left. I loved warframe about a year ago, but things are losing structure and falling apart with new bits sticking onto broken parts.

 

If I keep going I'm just going to end up ranting, but this is the problem with WF and why me and a number of my friends are leaving.

[D3ST]

Havde to agree with OP, DE step up your game, or loose all your veteran playerbase,...

[Gilmaesh]

You point out some of the problems i have with this game, like the infinite energy.

I'm still quite new so i will continue a bit (until KF2 that is), but i can understand your decision.

 

Also literally this. KF1 was nearly perfect imo. An HD remake would have had my support fully. A new version, with better graphics, animations, etc, plus new weapons, etc? HELL FUCKIN YEAH! KF1 was pretty much the go to game to look at coop done right imo.

 

indeed, i'm quite hype for KF2 and that will be what i will be playing next, as i love coop gameplay and tripwire did a good job with balance on KF1. Also, i pretty much only do solo in warframe now. (quite problematic for a coop game)

Edited March 30, 2015 by Gilmaesh

[(XBOX)JestersShade]

Hi.

 

Unfortunately, I definitly understands your points, mainly the loot dillution.

 

I've certainly not played as much as a PC / PS4 player (the game was released 7 months ago on Xbox) but I have more than a thousand hours and nearly eveything lootable.

 

With the release of Nova prime, I began being tired of spending my evenings on Tower 3 survival to get it : I finally traded it but kept a bitter taste from it, and stop playing for a bit (still haven't managed to get the chassis by playing ...!)

 

Restarted a few weeks ago, again really enjoyed my time but Volt comes out and ... here we go again ???!!!

 

It's even worst, as having a forma bp after 40 minutes just makes you want to stop playing ...

So I think I'm about to pause the game again, waiting for it to have some more content to come back to it.

[zoboso]

Is it just me or am I seeing less volt prime avatars? I feel like some of the whales are leaving the forums.