Preventing Camp-Easy Mode Play In Void. Feedback + Solutions.

[osuman]

I've been playing lots t4 t3 survivals and I keep noticing the same thing over and over again. People camping with Vauban's Vortex and easily doing 40+min just by spamming abilities and shooting enemies.

Surely De could just nerf Vortex/Torid/GPull/EV etc or rework the sewers or add more op enemies that will just cancel abilities/ insta-kill in unreachable places but this would greatly affect newer players and won't fix the problem, there will always be another way.

 

Currently, if you camp in 1 spot, enemies only spawn in the closest rooms and just rush towards you. At the end, enemies are only in that area, while other places in the map are just empty. Hence, I consider this a bit of an exploit/broken mechanics.  

 

How to fix it:

I suggest that enemies do not travel more than 2 "rooms" (or certain range) unless they see you.

Or 

Putting a limit of how many enemies can spawn while you are staying in the same room. Meanwhile, spawning enemies in other rooms.

Also

Introduce Corrupted "Power Carriers" that guarantee to drop life support capsules when killed. Probably should use the corpus ones since they are easier to kill and we already have lots of grineer units. Make them spawn a little at the beginning and increase the spawn rate as the time goes. This way players can still do long runs And won't need to have Nekros to go past 1h.

 

Overall, this would allow players to play long runs without needing to camp/nerfs, allows using other frames since you don't have to bring "staple" frames, and makes the game more enjoyable. It makes more of an actual survival game. 

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

This would be horrific. People usually stay in one room but move around a lot in it; that's been the way to keep teams together forever. At that point, you're still hurting people who aren't trying to camp.

 

If DE wants to fix this problem, they should probably ask "what's similar between the Vauban who's been camping for 3 hours, the Saryn who was rep-farming, the Loki who was invisible for an entire raid/TA, the Frost spamming globes on a Hijack tram?" The answer is that the energy system is broken.

 

Then they should ask, "Are the rewards good enough and the content fun and fair enough for them to get past it without this and feel as if it was worth their time?" The answer won't be yes as much as they want.

[Nopy117]

They should leave it alone, they learned from Viver that nerfing stuff to stop people from farming in a slightly easier way only damages the community, and forces the players so come up with a new method/work around anyways.

 

DE leave it alone, its not every lobby, and its not game breaking.

[osuman]

Well, imagine De nerfed energy system and kept the spawning as it is right now. People stay and run around the same room. Enemies keep spawning and running towards you in massive numbers. This would be too much for players to handle without spawning abilities, limiting player's ability to stay long even with camping. 

What I suggested is more of a buff which allows players to stay long even if energy system was nerfed because you won't be overwhelmed by enemies.

[Lynxh]

Your suggestions turns it into marathon(slight hyperbole). First and foremost, the survival part is the increasingly escalating conflict. While oxygen definitely plays a role, killing and withstanding the enemies relentless assault is still(and always has been) the primary focus.

 

You suggest that this would help open up more frames, beyond the current staples, but the moment you make "camping" less efficient, all your doing is shifting the staples. 

 

I kinda disagree with the premise that "camping" should be negated (in this case) in the first place, especially when certain frames are practically build for it. By all means you are free to dislike that approach though, but invalidating it because you rather run around is another thing.

 

I'd love to see a new mode where mobility/time plays a big role, I just don't agree that we should change survival into that.

[Inarticulate]

The only real advantage to camping Void Survival is you are consuming fewer keys. It still takes you 20 minutes to get a C rotation whether you restart every 20 minutes or every 2 hours.

 

I say leave it. This is not a problem worth prioritizing. There are bigger fish to fry before they start decomposing. There are also bigger fish that are already decomposing.

 

 

And before you try to call me out for being one of the campers, I'm one of the people who restart every 20 minutes.

[Fifield]

Extended camping is boring and immersion-breaking yet the game rewards it.  It should definitely be stopped.

I think a short bit of camping is good tactics (used in eg most zombie films) and should only be stopped when it gets boring.

Here's how to do it:
Use AFK-type detection to spot when most of the team has camped ie not moved > 10m from a spot in 5 minutes.

At this point, have an increasing chance to spawn a teleportation unit.  Initially, it could be a scaled Vor *not sure if he can go through walls) but I'd prefer a specific teleportation unit:

From 5-10 mins post-camp, it will deliberately jump behind you.  Little more threat than the Grineer Commander.
From 10-15 mins, it will jump behind you, taking the nearest light armour unit with it.
From 15-20 mins, it will jump behind you, taking the nearest medium armour unit with it.
From 20-25 mins, it will jump behind you, taking the nearest heavy armour unit with it.
From 25-30 mins, it will jump behind you, taking the nearest heavy and a light armour unit with it etc.

Therefore, from camp+20mins, you are in danger of getting wiped by a Bombard but you might also get eg a Heavy Grineer.

BTW, Vortex has already been nerfed slightly in U16.

[Inez]

No one is forcing you to camp if you hate it so much. Simply ask the host ahead of time if he is camping or quit leeching off pubbies in recruiting and farm your own keys.

 

The idea that everyone should be forced to enjoy the same thing as you seems very selfish.

 

For the record, I'm fine camping/non-camping, makes no difference to me.

[HyokaChan]

At this point, have an increasing chance to spawn a teleportation unit.  Initially, it could be a scaled Vor *not sure if he can go through walls) but I'd prefer a specific teleportation unit:

Grineer Manic?

[Fifield]

The idea that everyone should be forced to enjoy the same thing as you seems very selfish.

 

The idea that DE are selfish for making people play the game the way they want them to play is delusional.

[Myocarde]

 Excavation would force people to move around, but it will end up with camping around an objective or a cluster of objectives.

 Just let people camp if they like it and play whatever way you want, solo or with friends. Vortex and sewers isn't the only way to play, and isn't the only way to camp either, and it's not the "disease" itself, it's one of the "symptoms".

 

 Survival is boring as a gamemode, and not because of camping, but because of the things you have to do over and over. Plus, the infamous [DE]Grind is ridiculous. Most players would stop camping if the game would become less grindy (tier-related token system instead of actual parts). The problem is, you rarely get what you want from rotation B or C and rotation A is just a joke. So, doing 1 hour of survival becomes an effective method of getting what you want. The need to stay in one mission/gamemode for an hour forces you into a certain setup, if you want to be effective, that is.

 

 Another problem is that most warframes and their abilities are still almost useless vs certain content. And some of them are pure uselessness. (I support the idea of "each tool with it's own purpose", so would be nice to divide the DPS frames between fractions).

So you are limited in your choice of frames or weapons for that 1 hour run.

[Spindle99]

What about survival means constantly running around?

 

If you were in an area with hundreds of enemeis around would you run around like a headless chicken or find a base area?

 

Camping makes perfect sense to me.

[-Narauko-]

I camped T4S but that was before the R5 Core nerf.

I camped T3S but that was before the Rotation C was swallowed by Forma.

Now I farm parts from other keys, sell for plat and just plain buy the Rotation C reward. Save a lot of wasted bored hours.

[Shimonoki_Ryuji]

That would kill the survival entirely. It's horrific, when everybody is scattered around the map, cause:

 

1) you can't keep the life support at a reasonable level without Nekros at all.

2) you can't get a decent amount of drops.

3) you get shot from every possible direction no matter how you move. At high levels it's fatal.

 

With current infuriating drop table, camping is the only way, that has a reasonable time/reward rate.

[RafaelFuchs]

my argument to this thread is simple. why are you forcing your playstyle onto others? 

[RealPandemonium]

Player power needs to be nerfed, and enemies with them.  We need a game where stats and gear allow a player to succeed with skill and cunning in the play-style of their choice, rather than granting the player an assured victory.  As an added bonus we can do away with armor scaling on Grineer and enemies depleting your entire shields+hp in under a second, as those artificial enemy bandaids would no longer have a purpose.

 

Regarding power spam, I think that we should be able to cast our abilities amply in the way max efficiency allows, but that they should require practice and ingenuity to have the most made out of them.  Increasing energy costs slightly overall wouldn't be too bad, though.  

Edited April 8, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[Batwing]

I don't see the big issue here they make a huge grind wall and we find ways to actually get around it somewhat and people call it exploiting the game. We're using frames in whole groups and teamwork to make something mind-meltingly grindy somewhat less grindy. But no we should all just use 40 t3 keys to not get volt prime chassis. We're not glitching or using any cheats we're making a team specifically designed to survive in survival. If DE does not agree with the ways we do that maybe they should lessen the grind and make survival fun and not a huge grind fest.

 

Also how is what we do on ODD different from what we do in survival ? Vauban spams vortex and speed nova and we clean house sure there's a pod but with the right team it's not really in any danger, just like with the right team you can survive an hour in t3 survival.

[zoboso]

my argument to this thread is simple. why are you forcing your playstyle onto others? 

 

my refutation of your argument is that we are not, we would rather have an enjoyable play experience, so that we do not mind the grinding. If you enjoy camping then please continue to do so, but if you do not enjoy camping direct your anger at what caused the camping instead of the action itself.

[(XBOX)BAMMM Lightning]

I don't understand why this is a problem. Why are we worrying how other people approach the objective in a Co-Op game? As long as they complete it (without bugs or glitches), what's the issue? In this game, you make your own fun. If you don't enjoy camping, don't camp. I think we should be putting more focus on the current balance issues with the warframes right now. 

[RafaelFuchs]

my refutation of your argument is that we are not, we would rather have an enjoyable play experience, so that we do not mind the grinding. If you enjoy camping then please continue to do so, but if you do not enjoy camping direct your anger at what caused the camping instead of the action itself.

OP made it clear that he wishes to reduce the effectiveness of camping. that's forcing playstyle. doesn't matter how you wish to cut this... the OP is attempting to harm the way some people play their missions.

all of these are suggesting ways to force their playstyle onto people.

I've been playing lots t4 t3 survivals and I keep noticing the same thing over and over again. People camping with Vauban's Vortex and easily doing 40+min just by spamming abilities and shooting enemies.

Surely De could just nerf Vortex/Torid/GPull/EV etc or rework the sewers or add more op enemies that will just cancel abilities/ insta-kill in unreachable places but this would greatly affect newer players and won't fix the problem, there will always be another way.

 

Currently, if you camp in 1 spot, enemies only spawn in the closest rooms and just rush towards you. At the end, enemies are only in that area, while other places in the map are just empty. Hence, I consider this a bit of an exploit/broken mechanics.  

 

How to fix it:

I suggest that enemies do not travel more than 2 "rooms" (or certain range) unless they see you.

Or 

Putting a limit of how many enemies can spawn while you are staying in the same room. Meanwhile, spawning enemies in other rooms.

Also

Introduce Corrupted "Power Carriers" that guarantee to drop life support capsules when killed. Probably should use the corpus ones since they are easier to kill and we already have lots of grineer units. Make them spawn a little at the beginning and increase the spawn rate as the time goes. This way players can still do long runs And won't need to have Nekros to go past 1h.

 

Overall, this would allow players to play long runs without needing to camp/nerfs, allows using other frames since you don't have to bring "staple" frames, and makes the game more enjoyable. It makes more of an actual survival game. 

 

Extended camping is boring and immersion-breaking yet the game rewards it.  It should definitely be stopped.

I think a short bit of camping is good tactics (used in eg most zombie films) and should only be stopped when it gets boring.

Here's how to do it:

Use AFK-type detection to spot when most of the team has camped ie not moved > 10m from a spot in 5 minutes.

At this point, have an increasing chance to spawn a teleportation unit.  Initially, it could be a scaled Vor *not sure if he can go through walls) but I'd prefer a specific teleportation unit:

From 5-10 mins post-camp, it will deliberately jump behind you.  Little more threat than the Grineer Commander.

From 10-15 mins, it will jump behind you, taking the nearest light armour unit with it.

From 15-20 mins, it will jump behind you, taking the nearest medium armour unit with it.

From 20-25 mins, it will jump behind you, taking the nearest heavy armour unit with it.

From 25-30 mins, it will jump behind you, taking the nearest heavy and a light armour unit with it etc.

Therefore, from camp+20mins, you are in danger of getting wiped by a Bombard but you might also get eg a Heavy Grineer.

BTW, Vortex has already been nerfed slightly in U16.

[Don_T_Shoot]

 

....but this would greatly affect newer players and won't fix the problem, there will always be another way.

 

Yes, there will always be another way.  Going to nerf Hydroid, Mirage and other frames and weapons too? 

In fact there are many more ways to "camp a survival".   What's it to you?

 

Running around a fixed area with teammates in sight is fine, digging in and defending an area is fine too.   Having the team run around the map just leads to frustration and a shorter run.  That can be fine too if we don't mind "wasting" a key.

 

But again, what's it to you?  Stay out of other people's missions.

[Husla]

Again with these threads. Stop forcing people to play how you want. 

[zoboso]

OP made it clear that he wishes to reduce the effectiveness of camping. that's forcing playstyle. doesn't matter how you wish to cut this... the OP is attempting to harm the way some people play their missions.

all of these are suggesting ways to force their playstyle onto people.

 

 

Players have a urge to optimize instead of having fun. I do not think that camping needs to go, just that camping does not always have to be the most effective strategy.

[osuman]

Did you guys even read the op? I did not write anywhere that I want players to constantly run around and scatter around the map.

For example De can reduce enemies spawning after 20min of camping in the same room. This will not turn the game into what you are thinking.

Also, it is not about forcing play style, its about seeing that enemies keep mindlessly spawing and running at you from a distance, while every other place in the map is just empty. How does that make any sense? Its no different than old viver rep farms/egate.

For people talking about Nekros and life support. I already addressed this issue in the op.

[MilamberZ]

I've been playing lots t4 t3 survivals and I keep noticing the same thing over and over again. People camping with Vauban's Vortex and easily doing 40+min just by spamming abilities and shooting enemies.

Surely De could just nerf Vortex/Torid/GPull/EV etc or rework the sewers or add more op enemies that will just cancel abilities/ insta-kill in unreachable places but this would greatly affect newer players and won't fix the problem, there will always be another way.

 

Currently, if you camp in 1 spot, enemies only spawn in the closest rooms and just rush towards you. At the end, enemies are only in that area, while other places in the map are just empty. Hence, I consider this a bit of an exploit/broken mechanics.  

 

How to fix it:

I suggest that enemies do not travel more than 2 "rooms" (or certain range) unless they see you.

Or 

Putting a limit of how many enemies can spawn while you are staying in the same room. Meanwhile, spawning enemies in other rooms.

Also

Introduce Corrupted "Power Carriers" that guarantee to drop life support capsules when killed. Probably should use the corpus ones since they are easier to kill and we already have lots of grineer units. Make them spawn a little at the beginning and increase the spawn rate as the time goes. This way players can still do long runs And won't need to have Nekros to go past 1h.

 

Overall, this would allow players to play long runs without needing to camp/nerfs, allows using other frames since you don't have to bring "staple" frames, and makes the game more enjoyable. It makes more of an actual survival game. 

The problem is here, you consider a way to play as an abuse/exploit what is different from your viewpoint of play. I admit this way, camp isn't funny at all, survival is already boring aswell, so with the camp it's worst and for myself unbearable, but you haven't to impose your will to other player because you don't like

Basicly it's a you don't play like me, nerf it. You don't want camper, make a party without then.

Many frame are made for camp, there is a game mode for camping (def mob & defense), it's in game mechanics.

 

Actually the problem isn't players, but the lack of new content, new challenge for players, which feel to them rewarded (How many guys don't do the Raid, because it's pretty useless in term of reward/cost? Since when players didn't have real new content aka new mission, tileset, and not recycle?)

 

The game have a lot of things who needs to be "fixed" and studied than a game mode way.

Edited April 8, 2015 by MilamberZ