Preventing Camp-Easy Mode Play In Void. Feedback + Solutions.

[Fifield]

Did you just totally miss the point?

Some people change their mind and stay longer than they said they would in lobby.

Therefore, logic dictates that I am either forced to stay and camp as long as they want or lose my rewards.  QED

[izzatuw]

The best part of this is how the OP is leeching off others' keys in recruiting, and still complaining about how they play. Not just complaining, but asking DE to force these same people who generously hosted their keys to play just like him.

 

He could farm his own keys and host his own non-farm groups. But I suppose complaining in the forums is easier.

  

Oh snap son

i wish this would be implemented... i hate camping but sadly that is the only way to get that far in a survival mission....

 

It certainly is the easiest and most efficient but it is by far not the only way.

 

agreed.

Camping ruins the gamemode... It isnt fun at all

Well like many others have said, it's not the only game mode, you could easily go to recruit

H> Void survival no camping please

I have never camped in survival but I like talking to my friends while spamming in a defense with my friends and raging when some guy messes up his literal one and only goal. I find writing and reading books fun now and then, does it mean you find that interesting too?

[RafaelFuchs]

Did you just totally miss the point?

Some people change their mind and stay longer than they said they would in lobby.

Therefore, logic dictates that I am either forced to stay and camp as long as they want or lose my rewards.  QED

are you missing my point? hosting your own keys kills the entire issue right there. if you want to be real blunt about it since it's your key you shouldn't feel guilty for leaving them to die since they went against your interests. call me rude or a horrible person, but at the end of the day it's a game and you're the one that took them their in the first place.

[inappropriatename5818]

First of all NO.   

Second, have you asked yourself WHY players are camping? Maybe they need to stop trying to nerf anything players find to make the hardcore grind easier? There will always be a loothole, they nerf this, people will find something else.   

 

But let's get back to WHY players resorted to camping? Maybe because certain keys are insanely tedious to get and players want to get the most out of them? Maybe the game is too annoying/hard to do normally?  

 

I camp sometimes when I want to get most out of my keys. I never camped before nulifiers  and bombards were added to void. Is that saying anything? I used to have fun in void survivals, it's a beautiful tileset and it was super fun, but now I have to deal with permanent knockdown spam that oneshots most frames, enemies that can only be taken down with high rate of fire weapons or going on a suicide mission and coptering into their bubble.   

 

I didn't have to deal with that stuff before and I don't want to deal with it now, that's why I will avoid dealing with it and sit in the little room that's covered by vortex, because I'm tired of imbalanced enemies with next to no counterplay.  

 

40 minute runs are doable normally, anything above that is just a "Teammate picking up simulator" and it's not fun. Give us more keys, give us easier keys and I'll do 20 minute runs normally. Nerf bombards, let us shoot through nulifier shields, they were designed to counter press 4 to win and if we had to shoot them they already achieved their goal, they don't need to oneshot you and block bullets.   

 

Until DE realizes it's not the players fault for abusing stuff like this and it's actually the game that is flawed, I'm staying in my little hole, shooting my little torid at my little vortex.

[Davoodoo]

And if they change their minds from what they said before the mission starts?

@Davoodoo, people complain about attacks going through walls hence I prefer my solution.  Yours would be easier to implement though.

I understand. Even i find it problematic for aoe to through walls though if grenades go through wall i simply consider that a simpler solution than teaching ai to do skillshots with bouncing to make difficult throws possible.

 

Your idea have 1 problem though, it can be easily countered by either bastille or another vortex at players location. Even if enemy teleports directly at you it will get instantly caught in it.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Fifield]

are you missing my point? hosting your own keys kills the entire issue right there.

 

Did you miss my refutation?

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/436575-preventing-camp-easy-mode-play-in-void-feedback-solutions/page-3#entry4850357

[Fifield]

Your idea have 1 problem though, it can be easily countered by either bastille or another vortex at players location. Even if enemy teleports directly at you it will get instantly caught in it.

 

I think Bastille would be impossible to cast so that it didn't wreck the Vortex farming?

 

Double Vortex would have to be kept up 100%. That's so unlikely that I didn't consider it -- but it is a real countering possibility.  Back to the drawing board maybe.

[Monolake]

Survivals were designed to make you move around the map between the LS posts in the first place.  But with enemies rushing towards the player and Necros provifing extra LS drops the need to move around disappeared, making camping the most efficient way, despite being quite boring. 

Making some changes to the AI and the gamemode itself to encourage moving would only improve the experience.

[RafaelFuchs]

Tens of thousands of people play this game.  And they're not lying, they just change their mind.  Also, it can't be my key every time and it's sometimes awkward to ask.

Along with embarrassing game design, I do expect DE to fix camping.

tens of thousands people may play it, but if you ignore someone they'll never be able to message to join your group again. give them valid reason of why you have to leave and i'm sure they'll understand. it's only awkward if you make it awkward. yes it can be your key every time. you can farm for keys like you can anything else or you could buy them off other people. i personally buy keys when i'm trying to farm for things and it's not my plat i use to buy things with because i only use traded plat to buy keys or even trade them other things.

 

the game has many flaws, but camping isn't a flaw. camping is a play style chosen by the player. it has its place and is not practical in a lot of situations. just because our only endless missions are about defense doesn't make the missions the flaw. it makes the lack of diversity the flaw.

 

Did you miss my refutation?

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/436575-preventing-camp-easy-mode-play-in-void-feedback-solutions/page-3#entry4850357

nope i even quoted it and directly replied to every part of it this time

[Fifield]

yes it can be your key every time.

 

Perhaps I should have said it shouldn't be my key every time.  But you really should have dropped your argument several posts ago.

[GorillaJuice]

They should leave it alone, they learned from Viver that nerfing stuff to stop people from farming in a slightly easier way only damages the community, and forces the players so come up with a new method/work around anyways.

 

DE leave it alone, its not every lobby, and its not game breaking.

 

I suggest that the Tutorial and all of Mercury should involve nothing but findng a suitable camp spot and pressing 4 so newbies aren't turned away from too complex a game that might have some parkour or aiming and shooting to drive them away.  This isnt Starcraft 2, stop trying to make this game look like it might need some user input with baiting and switching and let's accept the beauty of spamming a single key.

 

This game would be bigger than LoL if only more people knew that only one key press is required.

Edited April 9, 2015 by GorillaJuice

[RafaelFuchs]

Perhaps I should have said it shouldn't be my key every time.  But you really should have dropped your argument several posts ago.

in my idea of a perfect game there should be diversity and an ability to support as many play styles as possible in reason. just because something is more efficient doesn't make it superior to every player. also, just because it's more efficient doesn't mean it should get nerfed. maybe instead of swinging the nerf bat around like some mad man and ruining someone else's fun you should instead offer ideas to improve the quality of life for other play styles. i'm all for ideas to improve a game's diversity, but i'm strongly against ideas that narrow diversity. your idea of fun may or may not be my idea of fun. survival isn't PvP, other people aren't having their fun sucked away by being pulled into a vortex...that's the AI.

[Fifield]

in my idea of a perfect game there should be diversity and an ability to support as many play styles as possible in reason.

 

Perhaps we should put an "I win" button in the top right-hand corner then.  It automatically kills everything, gives you every drop possible without having to pick it up, a million credits, a thousand plat and levels your frame, weapons et al to 30.

 

Sorry but camping for over 30 mins isn't a desirable playstyle by any objective standard.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Fifield

[Elenortirie]

well not first and not last but I have to say it - OP your primary post makes very little sense if any and only thing I can see there is "ppl are playing in a way I don't like nerf it!"

 

reminds me old whines about dozens of rhinos with boltor primes hows thatrruning all of players game.

 

and solve for both is and were all the same - if you don't like playstyle of some poeple don't play with such people - we have so many chats in-game to comunicate with each other so lets use it.

 

 

funny thing is that some people here are screaming about nerfing abilities which are OP and not so long time ago (and I haven't noticed any significant buff for them) when boltor-masta-race wars were primary issue of the forums many people were saying quite oposite - that in infinite missions abilities are weak and plain and at some point you will be required to own very specific OP gun to carry on....

 

well I wonder what changed meanwhile to swap forums opinions that much....

[Davoodoo]

well I wonder what changed meanwhile to swap forums opinions that much....

Absolutely nothing happened, not even opinion change.

 

We have cc which is completely broken and allows you to disable enemies. Then we have damage abilities which do maybe 10% per cast of what can a gun do in second.

Saying that at some point you will require a specific gun actually means that there is a goddamn problem with weapon balance.

 

Completely nothing changed, ppl still cant interpret what they see or they still dont bother to read.

They would rather shrug off any nerf proposition than admit theres a problem, because at point of doing so problem doesnt affect them personally, when it finally affects them personally they pretend that problem didnt exist earlier(example?? ppl saying that packaging PA isnt bad, yet now complaining when they got archwing in the bundle). Thats being called shortsighted.

[Dornez]

In nearly every game with endless enemies, at some point you hunker down in a corner and shoot until you have no more bullets left.

 

That is the nature of endless survival /hoard mode games in general.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Dornez

[Davoodoo]

In nearly every game with endless enemies, at some point you hunker down in a corner and shoot until you have no more bullets left.

 

That is the nature of endless survival /hoard mode games in general.

You know when it happens?? when devs decide that you should fail at this point.

[TheBrsrkr]

I think OP should go work for DE. Don't fixc the problems in the broken gamemodes, just nerf the players to fit, right? Makes perffect sense.

[Fifield]

In nearly every game with endless enemies, at some point you hunker down in a corner and shoot until you have no more bullets left.

 

That is the nature of endless survival /hoard mode games in general.

 

I agree with keeping camping, it just shouldn't go on past 10-15 mins.

[osuman]

I think OP should go work for DE. Don't fixc the problems in the broken gamemodes, just nerf the players to fit, right? Makes perffect sense.

Nerfs players? If anything my suggestion would prevent future nerfs and De making new op enemies. My suggestion prevents camping in tight places like sewers where there is only 1 doorway so that people stay safe, not the regular rooms. You clearly have no idea or haven't played this game long enough to understand this.

Read my replies before saying non-sense. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by osuman

[AsahiOka]

let the people camp, let them play the way they want. 

 

 

But I don't like camping, why? is boring. spamming 4, 3, etc. for 1-2 hours is boring. 

 

 

it's funny that the 90% of the camp teams only stays for 40 minutes lol with 1 nekros you can do 40 minutes easily without camping.

[(PSN)iBoiz]

I played couple 40 minutes, 1h t4 survivals yesterday with mr 4, 6 9 players without Nekros just fine. And didn't camp at tight spot at all.

In fact, staying in the same room caused us to overwhelm with enemies closer to the end. So, we just moved to different rooms and it became less chaotic. Life support was not an issue too.

 

I'd say just introduce those Corrupted "power carriers" for now. Make their scaling lower, and it will allow players to go long runs without needing to camp. Both campers and non-campers will be happy.

Edited April 9, 2015 by (PS4)iBoiz

[RafaelFuchs]

Perhaps we should put an "I win" button in the top right-hand corner then.  It automatically kills everything, gives you every drop possible without having to pick it up, a million credits, a thousand plat and levels your frame, weapons et al to 30.

 

Sorry but camping for over 30 mins isn't a desirable playstyle by any objective standard.

only 1mil credits? i could burn that in 1 fusion go. mods are expensive.

 

camping isn't desirable? what is the defense mission mode then? you perplex me...lol

[Fifield]

Can't tell if you're trolling but in Void Defense, enemies come at you from 5-8 different directions.  They actually shoot at you.  You have to prioritise, dodge, revive teammates.  It takes skill.

In camping, they're all sucked into a small ball and are helpless.  It takes zero skill.

[Shiia]

First of all NO.   

Second, have you asked yourself WHY players are camping? Maybe they need to stop trying to nerf anything players find to make the hardcore grind easier? There will always be a loothole, they nerf this, people will find something else.   

 

But let's get back to WHY players resorted to camping? Maybe because certain keys are insanely tedious to get and players want to get the most out of them? Maybe the game is too annoying/hard to do normally?  

 

I camp sometimes when I want to get most out of my keys. I never camped before nulifiers  and bombards were added to void. Is that saying anything? I used to have fun in void survivals, it's a beautiful tileset and it was super fun, but now I have to deal with permanent knockdown spam that oneshots most frames, enemies that can only be taken down with high rate of fire weapons or going on a suicide mission and coptering into their bubble.   

 

I didn't have to deal with that stuff before and I don't want to deal with it now, that's why I will avoid dealing with it and sit in the little room that's covered by vortex, because I'm tired of imbalanced enemies with next to no counterplay.  

 

40 minute runs are doable normally, anything above that is just a "Teammate picking up simulator" and it's not fun. Give us more keys, give us easier keys and I'll do 20 minute runs normally. Nerf bombards, let us shoot through nulifier shields, they were designed to counter press 4 to win and if we had to shoot them they already achieved their goal, they don't need to oneshot you and block bullets.   

 

Until DE realizes it's not the players fault for abusing stuff like this and it's actually the game that is flawed, I'm staying in my little hole, shooting my little torid at my little vortex.

Quoted for absolute truth.  If I have to choose, it will always be to run and gun.  That's why I play an action game.  Being put in a room with five nullifiers protecting bombards who shoot around a corner and ONE SHOT me (even while using quickthinking and full energy-WTF?!?!) while I'm trying to burn down nullifier shields ONE BY ONE feels hopeless and like I have no control.  Nothing I do makes a difference once so many minutes pass (and lasting so many minutes is necessary when something ONLY DROPS after a certain amount of time has passed).  I'd be an idiot not to do all I could to survive just to not get the f*#*ing part I want.