*clarity Update* C'mon De Are You Really Going To Ruin Excalibur Like This?

[Blackout751]

Ah, OP... how you made me laugh with just the first few sentences. Excalibur is just a generic assault warframe currently, and the coming changes will make him the swordsman people want him to be. Super Jump was an ability I found okay, but made obsolete by its situational requirement (AKA a large room, preferably at least two targets to shoot), directional melee and the coming Parkour 2.0. That you defend Super Jump just shows me how strange this place is - everyone hates on Super Jump, but when it's time to send it to Ability Hell everyone goes to its aid.

 

Above post is an accurate description of how I feel about your plight.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Blackout751

[Zeirem]

Yeah these recent ideas for revamping Excalibur are reaching the pinnacle of dumb &#! right now. One of the major features of Excalibur is his mobility. It says this even in his description and you're going to make that claim completely void by removing super jump.

 

If you wanna revamp Excalibur... remove slash dash and give him a more useful 1. His slash dash produces far less damage than casual spin attacks.

 

Why not make his super jump his 2, radial blind his 1, then make his 3 a buff to give him more group friendly appeal. Right now Excalibur has a hard time getting survival groups and most defense groups. Giving him some type of group buff would change this. Furthermore, keeping his super jump would preserve one of his major strengths that help him keep pace with other mobile warframes... Since nobody else has superjump, he can scale obstacles easier than many other warframes, which makes him great on certain maps. 

 

Please...DE....exercise practical reason here. Stop gimping Excalibur (The face of your game.) STAAAAAAAAHP.

[Noble_Cactus]

Yeah these recent ideas for revamping Excalibur are reaching the pinnacle of dumb ! right now. One of the major features of Excalibur is his mobility. It says this even in his description and you're going to make that claim completely void by removing super jump.

 

If you wanna revamp Excalibur... remove slash dash and give him a more useful 1. His slash dash produces far less damage than casual spin attacks.

 

Why not make his super jump his 2, radial blind his 1, then make his 3 a buff to give him more group friendly appeal. Right now Excalibur has a hard time getting survival groups and most defense groups. Giving him some type of group buff would change this. Furthermore, keeping his super jump would preserve one of his major strengths that help him keep pace with other mobile warframes... Since nobody else has superjump, he can scale obstacles easier than many other warframes, which makes him great on certain maps. 

 

Please...DE....exercise practical reason here. Stop gimping Excalibur (The face of your game.) STAAAAAAAAHP.

 

The one point that people defending super jump seem to be forgetting is that Super Jump is becoming part of the normal toolset for every frame. If xcal needs a new mobility option, give him something unique. Maybe the new ult could buff his movement speed and increase his jump height or something, I don't know.

[toolazyforagoodname]

Yeah these recent ideas for revamping Excalibur are reaching the pinnacle of dumb ! right now. One of the major features of Excalibur is his mobility. It says this even in his description and you're going to make that claim completely void by removing super jump.

 

If you wanna revamp Excalibur... remove slash dash and give him a more useful 1. His slash dash produces far less damage than casual spin attacks.

 

Why not make his super jump his 2, radial blind his 1, then make his 3 a buff to give him more group friendly appeal. Right now Excalibur has a hard time getting survival groups and most defense groups. Giving him some type of group buff would change this. Furthermore, keeping his super jump would preserve one of his major strengths that help him keep pace with other mobile warframes... Since nobody else has superjump, he can scale obstacles easier than many other warframes, which makes him great on certain maps. 

 

Please...DE....exercise practical reason here. Stop gimping Excalibur (The face of your game.) STAAAAAAAAHP.

Or instead of going though the effort of finding a way to keep an ability on a frame that most players think is sub-par, has very few areas to buff it in and will be obsolete in the coming updates, they could just increase his sprint speed to 1.15 making him more suited to melee combat (running between enemies or groups of enemies faster) so that he still has his mobility and continue down the path they've announced for him

[Halisi]

Okay, not to be a jerk, but let's do some research here. Here is my current profile, as of 04/11/2015 at 12:59 PM EST:

 

 

I've used Excalibur through every iteration of his buffs and debuffs (aside from the first, where Slash Dash was his best ability). I've taken Excalibur in his Radial Blind 1.0 days in T4S for over an hour solo. I've taken Excalibur in his current state (nerfed Radial Blind, wonky and unreliable Radial Javelin) to T4S and survived for 40 minutes+ simply because I was determined to force a build for my favorite frame that worked.

 

With that said, let's look here:

 

 

And here:

 

 

Not trying to be a jerk or anything, but please compare your Excalibur usage to mine. Comparatively your Excalibur and Excalibur Prime are trophies that sit on a shelf and look pretty until you decide to have fun with your Super Jump abilities. You've got a combined XP gain on both of your Excalibur frames of just under 18 million... with Excalibur, I've totaled over 101 million XP gained and over 120 thousand kills. So, no offense, but in my opinion as an AVID Excalibur fan, this frame desperately needs a rework. The melee multiplier on Radial Blind barely works. The stun from Radial Blind and Radial Javelin are overlapping capabilities. The damage from Radial Javelin barely scales into mid-game and stops being effective before leaving the star chart. Super Jump is marginally useful due to the invisibilitiy - something only used because the blinding capabilities of Radial Blind were nerfed into the ground. Slash Dash's damage falls off before you reach the midway point of the star chart and comparable moves on other frames (Rhino Charge, Tidal Surge, and Tailwind) are all considerably better. The best way to survive long term into T4S using Excalibur is to give him Quick Thinking and Primed Flow, avoid using skills, and let his energy pool be an additional source of health. There is simply no way that was the intention for this frame.

 

I understand your sentiments about the fun you have with the frame, but I think you're a little misguided about the frame's viability. Please don't let your refusal to move from your comfort zone be a hinderance to the progress of the poster frame for this game.

 

**Edited to correct my XP gain fron 120 million to 101 million**

 

 My profile page isn't reflective of how I play the game, I've been maining Excal for the past few months while my mag/dragon nikana have seen little to no use in that timespan. Warframe still thinks mag is my most used frame due to the fact that she was practically the only thing I used back when the void first came out. Also I don't play super long missions atm and only play for a few hours a day so raw stats are not completely accurate.

 

 So don't assume that my Excalibur sits on a shelf when that couldn't be further from the truth! Also Ive been using Excal long before you even came along so I think I know a little bit more about his viability than you. With Excal I can use him very long into T4S and essentially stunlock enemies while doing insane amounts of damage with my melee. I can also get in and out of a group of enemies near instantly using slash dash.

[taiiat]

Actually I tested the augment in t3 survival at 40 minutes, there was a very noticeable damage buff

radial blind allowed me to slaughter heavy units with my melee weapon in seconds.

Trust me I know what I'm talking about when it comes to excalibur

you apparently don't.

Radial Blind is a nice boon for Melee. but that doesn't make Excalibur the best Melee Warframe. it makes him one of the Melee capable Warframes.

if you know as much about the game as you claim to, you've or soon will realize the other Melee Warframes (or Warframes that can assist Melee) that you've forgotten about and say 'oh crap'.

(also, if the Energy Waves count as Melee Strikes, then it most definitely stands out compared to Slash Dash - 382872% better than the Radial Javelin Augment in terms of practicality, that's for sure)

[WolvenEdge]

A few problems spotted; no, Excalibur is NOT invulnerable during superjump. He is invisible, there's a difference. Manics can still find you when invisible, and the nullifier units and any shielded by them detect you the instant you cross that blasted bubble, invisible or not (and yes, there's a way to get past the bubble while remaining invisible, it's using the companions, one Sentinel and one Kubrow have the ability).

Admittedly, having a superjump that points wherever you wish would be nice, but that infringes on Tailwind's territory something fierce. I have a lovely way to keep all of the happy superjumpers happy (myself included, I like the ability... I was just tired of using energy for something that I got from swinging my sword, with the same result. Reduced enemy accuracy from the movement came to about the same effect as superjump's invis). Make Slash Dash omnidirectional! Eh? Eh? Now you can slash-dash all those blasted floaties the Corpus have, or use it to get rid of those pesky sensor bars with your melee! you can eve use it while wall-running to give yourself a boost. X3

 

 

Edit; what kind of insane build are you using where you can actually get through crowds with slash dash? Enemies that aren't instantly dead STOP SLASH DASH DEAD. You heard me; if it doesn't die, it stops slash dash as surely as if you ran into a wall. How are you moving through crowds of enemies with an ability that specifically dies upon impact with something strong enough to simply have a hit point or three left after Slash Dash is over?

Edited April 12, 2015 by WolvenEdge

[Halisi]

A few problems spotted; no, Excalibur is NOT invulnerable during superjump. He is invisible, there's a difference. Manics can still find you when invisible, and the nullifier units and any shielded by them detect you the instant you cross that blasted bubble, invisible or not (and yes, there's a way to get past the bubble while remaining invisible, it's using the companions, one Sentinel and one Kubrow have the ability).

Admittedly, having a superjump that points wherever you wish would be nice, but that infringes on Tailwind's territory something fierce. I have a lovely way to keep all of the happy superjumpers happy (myself included, I like the ability... I was just tired of using energy for something that I got from swinging my sword, with the same result. Reduced enemy accuracy from the movement came to about the same effect as superjump's invis). Make Slash Dash omnidirectional! Eh? Eh? Now you can slash-dash all those blasted floaties the Corpus have, or use it to get rid of those pesky sensor bars with your melee! you can eve use it while wall-running to give yourself a boost. X3

 

 

Edit; what kind of insane build are you using where you can actually get through crowds with slash dash? Enemies that aren't instantly dead STOP SLASH DASH DEAD. You heard me; if it doesn't die, it stops slash dash as surely as if you ran into a wall. How are you moving through crowds of enemies with an ability that specifically dies upon impact with something strong enough to simply have a hit point or three left after Slash Dash is over?

 

 Well I wasn't referring to actual invulnerability I just meant that you practically are so while in the air as nothing can see you. Also super would have much less range than tailwind and wouldn't go as far, plus you would be invisible for the duration so you can follow up with directional melee and move a significant distance all while being invisible.

 

 On the topic of slash dash it might be due to the fact that I use duration on my build. Because of the immense distance I travel it usually finds small gaps in the group to pass through.

[Karukiku]

 My profile page isn't reflective of how I play the game, I've been maining Excal for the past few months while my mag/dragon nikana have seen little to no use in that timespan. Warframe still thinks mag is my most used frame due to the fact that she was practically the only thing I used back when the void first came out. Also I don't play super long missions atm and only play for a few hours a day so raw stats are not completely accurate.

 

 So don't assume that my Excalibur sits on a shelf when that couldn't be further from the truth! Also Ive been using Excal long before you even came along so I think I know a little bit more about his viability than you. With Excal I can use him very long into T4S and essentially stunlock enemies while doing insane amounts of damage with my melee. I can also get in and out of a group of enemies near instantly using slash dash.

AHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[WolvenEdge]

I just can't wait to see all the threads about coptering when they finally normalize that heinous movement multiplication garbage and add limitations.  I'll have to remember to buy some popcorn and watch the forums blow up.

 

^-This. So much this. Sad I don't like popcorn... but I'll bring along my crunchy granola bars and Rees's Pieces. :P Hek, I might even invest in a pizza if the fun lasts long enough.

[SwiggitySwaggitySwooty]

 

 So don't assume that my Excalibur sits on a shelf when that couldn't be further from the truth! Also Ive been using Excal long before you even came along so I think I know a little bit more about his viability than you. With Excal I can use him very long into T4S and essentially stunlock enemies while doing insane amounts of damage with my melee. I can also get in and out of a group of enemies near instantly using slash dash.

 

His xp with excal is over 100 Million. You sit at a measly 15 million. 

His excal has 110 thousand more kills than yours.

 

Just because you started the game back when it came out and you got a limited edition frame, does not mean that you know more than this individual. These "raw stats" show a clear difference between you and the player who posted those screenshots. That picture with mag wasnt even mentioned as far as usage, He compared the xp gained between the two excaliburs. 

 

You need to take of your rose tinted glasses because what your describing is excalibur before the radial blind nerf, not what he is now.

[Rakosta_Kai]

Don't lie to yourself.

 

There is zero loss in excalibur in this rework

 

 

That remains to be seen...

The current descriptions they have given does reduce the abstract iteration that the player could plug into Excal to make him work the way they wanted him to.

But Excalibur is their poster boy so I am sure they will do him justice... Well, I hope they do.

 

 

 

Are people this scared of change? I remember when Rhino's rework was first posted and everyone lost thier minds saying he will be ruined because radial blast was removed, do say that today.

 

Excalibur is the poster boy for the game yet is arguably the worst frame in the game.

 

Looking at DE's track record for frame reworks and rebalancing, I'd say "fear" or trepidation would be sensible emotions.

 

FWIW, Many Rhino players will tell you that the changes that prompted Radial Blast's removal cost Rhino much of his scale-ability.

So that's a bad example.

 

I, personally, like the ideas that DE put forward for Excal and setup that  way with decent proc chances, I'll play Excal more.

 

That said, I can definitely see why people would be nervous....

 

I'm a lot more nervous about Frost right now as he seems to be the very next on their re-work list.

[Karukiku]

His xp with excal is over 100 Million. You sit at a measly 15 million. 

His excal has 110 thousand more kills than yours.

 

Just because you started the game back when it came out and you got a limited edition frame, does not mean that you know more than this individual. These "raw stats" show a clear difference between you and the player who posted those screenshots. That picture with mag wasnt even mentioned as far as usage, He compared the xp gained between the two excaliburs. 

 

You need to take of your rose tinted glasses because what your describing is excalibur before the radial blind nerf, not what he is now.

lmao

[SenpaiWisp]

Could someone briefly summarize for me the incoming changes?

 

Skill 1, Jump

Skill 2 Jump to the Right

Skill 3 Jump to the left

Skill 4: Double Jump

[CY13ERPUNK]

Excalibur is in essence, broken to how he originally was. Excal is supposed to be a swordsman, excelling at close to close/mid-range combat.... which he currently DOESN'T DO!

Excal needs a change, and Super Jump certainly ISN'T an ability to argue is good. So you can get 1 or 2 shots when jumping? The ability is suddenly useful!!! No. Like they said on the stream, Superjump predates the Free Running mechanics, so at the TIME, seemed good, but really isn't anymore.

What they're trying to do is get it so people can make use of ALL of excaliburs abilities, and not just situational ones like Superjump.

As for Javelin and Blind. People use them as the same thing, except javelin is a slightly more expensive to use version, and the augment 'supercharging' melee is redundant, as the combo timer is no-where near long enough to make it anywhere near useful.

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ THIS

[Buzkyl]

That remains to be seen...

The current descriptions they have given does reduce the abstract iteration that the player could plug into Excal to make him work the way they wanted him to.

But Excalibur is their poster boy so I am sure they will do him justice... Well, I hope they do.

 

 

 

Unless the execution goes horrible, horribly wrong, it's a buff in all areas. Slash dash remains a skill than can be used for mobility as he bounces off enemies in a cone instead of stopping at the face of the group. Blind can be used on while moving so that as well boosts Excalibur's survivability and he remains mobile. The only 2 possible concerns are the radial javelin tweak and how powerful his new ultimate is.

 

Looking at DE's track record for frame reworks and rebalancing, I'd say "fear" or trepidation would be sensible emotions.

 

FWIW, Many Rhino players will tell you that the changes that prompted Radial Blast's removal cost Rhino much of his scale-ability.

So that's a bad example.

 

I, personally, like the ideas that DE put forward for Excal and setup that  way with decent proc chances, I'll play Excal more.

 

That said, I can definitely see why people would be nervous....

 

I'm a lot more nervous about Frost right now as he seems to be the very next on their re-work list.

 

Nearly all the frame reworks brought a frame that was considered poor into a much better state, some frames need more touching but they are much better off now than they were before. Example Oberon, Ember and partially nerkos tweaks. People can cling onto the past in a game that is ever changing, so fear of change is expected.

 

Rhino's rework was at the time when his god mode was removed, his one defined trait as a frontline tank was removed and left him in a poor state for months. God mode isn't a scalable ability it's as effective at level 1 as it is at level 100. Blast was combined into Stomp to give his his only buffer roar.

 

I see no reason to even be remotely concern DE is going to rework the frame as DE isn't going to make the frame even worse than it is now.

[Marthrym]

I never liked Super Jump. Sue me. See how I care.

[VentiGlondi]

Super Jump has no place in this game. Tilesets are getting more horizontal and several tall tiles have been removed.

 

Also

But while we're on the subject of Excalibur changes, Scott really? You really think radial javelin and blind do the same thing? No! Radial javelin can hit enemies behind obstacles, does damage, and with the augment supercharges your melee.

You've pretty much admitted that Radial Javelin serves the same purpose as Radial Blind, except is better at it.

[Halisi]

Super Jump has no place in this game. Tilesets are getting more horizontal and several tall tiles have been removed.

 

Also

 

 

You've pretty much admitted that Radial Javelin serves the same purpose as Radial Blind, except is better at it.

 

Nope because the stun from radial blind lasts longer, radial javelin is for when you want to spread damage to a large amount of enemies leaving them weakened and open to attack. Radial blind is for those times where everything needs to stop attacking you right now so you can go about your business, it's more reliable as cc due to not having awareness restrictions.

[WolvenEdge]

But you're still saying that they do the same thing; stun the enemies for a little bit. Again; that's like saying that if you had Slash Dash, Rhino Charge, and Tidal Surge all in the same kit, they wouldn't be redundant because of the little bitty nuances that set them apart.

 

The two abilities are used for exactly the same purpose, and have been for a while. Just because you don't want to see Excal change is no real reason to attempt to justify two abilities that become slightly different itterations of the same mechanic being on the same kit.

[Halisi]

But you're still saying that they do the same thing; stun the enemies for a little bit. Again; that's like saying that if you had Slash Dash, Rhino Charge, and Tidal Surge all in the same kit, they wouldn't be redundant because of the little bitty nuances that set them apart.

 

The two abilities are used for exactly the same purpose, and have been for a while. Just because you don't want to see Excal change is no real reason to attempt to justify two abilities that become slightly different itterations of the same mechanic being on the same kit.

 

 Rhino charge for short range high damage + knockdown = use on close heavy units for damage and a knockdown leaving them open to attack.

 

 Slash Dash for long range mobility/damage = use to engage with a far off enemy bringing them into melee range, use to escape.

 

 Tidal Surge for aoe cc+damage = use to engage multiple enemies knocking them down and dragging them together to take them out as a group.

 

Thank you for giving me a second opportunity to reply to that particular statement as these three powers fill completely different roles and would actually work well in a single kit given the offensive flexibility they provide. This isn't even considering the augment mods that further separate these powers uses.

[VentiGlondi]

 Rhino charge for short range high damage + knockdown = use on close heavy units for damage and a knockdown leaving them open to attack.

 

 Slash Dash for long range mobility/damage = use to engage with a far off enemy bringing them into melee range, use to escape.

 

 Tidal Surge for aoe cc+damage = use to engage multiple enemies knocking them down and dragging them together to take them out as a group.

 

Thank you for giving me a second opportunity to reply to that particular statement as these three powers fill completely different roles and would actually work well in a single kit given the offensive flexibility they provide. This isn't even considering the augment mods that further separate these powers uses.

You want to use Slash Dash for long range mobility even though it covers the shortest distance out of the bunch.

 

Did you even play Excalibur

[WolvenEdge]

You're still telling me that abilities that do essentially the same thing are not redundant. They all charge forward, dealing damage to all in their path... all you've really told me is that Rhino Charge and Tidal Surge do it better. Still pretty much the same ability. While that works over multiple frames, that doesn't work all in the same one frame.

 

And then you have the guts to say in the first page that you think the new Slash Dash is made redundant by his new ult... wow. Just... wow.

Edited April 12, 2015 by WolvenEdge

[gamedrone]

ok, Excalibur is my favorite frame. When I started to play I loved him and even now i still do. BUT, when I heard the re-vamp I could not stop smiling becase this is the excal I dreamed about. dont argue meta on abilities that most high level excal don't use. Excal is ancient and need more than polish with his abilities. besides if you spec for duration you lose super jump and spec for strength you lose dash. I want to use his augment and not feel like I wasted a slot. I want to play melee only without having to spec for ONLY melee. Excal is STILL my favorite frame and I still use him every day BUT he is overdue on this update. 

 

 

disclaimer: this is an opinion....

Edited April 13, 2015 by gamedrone

[Thaumatos]

I have one teeny tiny wish for DE when they do this re-vamp:

 

Please don't make Excalibur's ultimate "Hysteria 0.5" ... he deserves more than a copy/paste ability.