Zarozian Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 lol no Well the Sentients do take control of technology don't they? And the Corpus do use a certain technology to control their MOAs to prevent them from being able to think and act freely~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArcariusAero Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Well the Sentients do take control of technology don't they? And the Corpus do use a certain technology to control their MOAs to prevent them from being able to think and act freely~ That's completely different though. The sentients were an enemy of the Orokin (and Corpus were likely lower class Orokin who survived). Why would the Corpus/Orokin have an enemy of their whole kind and everyone sitting plop in the middle of their homes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikodemos Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Then can we call him Frohd Bek? Only if you learn how to crop your pictures properly <.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl_Facehugger Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Nope, nothing says they were Sentients. I don't think they were Sentients at all. I think they were Orokin Moas. I'd like to see these Moas (and nobody say that they are Corrupted/Fusion Moas, because they weren't) Why do you think fusion moas aren't of orokin design and manufacture? Stylistically they scream orokin so much that my clan called them moa prime during the moa event, and we already have precedent for corpus making orokin knockoffs in the Braton Prime -> Braton transition. (Unless the Braton has corpus writing stamped on the side for lulz?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 A further explanation of my reasoning behind saying that the father was Orokin: He says "Orokin didn't have parents like you do. It was done differently then". He then goes on to explain who raised him, indicating that he didn't have parents like his son did. He's saying that he was Orokin and that he was raised by a body of people, not by two parents. The general use of the term "Orokin" (without the "the" modifier), indicates this. That's how Orokin society was. Orokin were raised in corpora (plural of corpus). The specific corpora the father was raised in all died because they didn't adapt, didn't survive. But he survived. You have to understand the context to understand who he is talking about. He's talking about himself, his corpus, and why he doesn't want his son thinking about what the empire was like. He doesn't want his son to try to go back to something that doesn't exist. So, when he says "Orokin didn't have parents like you do", he's talking about himself, because he's using himself and his heritage to warn his son against it, saying that only the present and future matter, because trying to hold on to what is gone will get you killed. So he doesn't even think about the empire. Why do you think fusion moas aren't of orokin design and manufacture? Stylistically they scream orokin so much that my clan called them moa prime during the moa event, and we already have precedent for corpus making orokin knockoffs in the Braton Prime -> Braton transition. (Unless the Braton has corpus writing stamped on the side for lulz?) They are regular Corpus Moas that are corrupted by the Neural Sentry. The Corpus take those and reproduce them, but they aren't the original moas. They are Corpus Moas corrupted by the Neural Sentry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) So what I could get out of that: Corpus were essentially Orokin citizens, but then after the fall of the Orokin (which I'd guess is the upper class) the Corpus became their own group while the Grineer tried to gain power. Also, the ship of this guy's friend was attacked because after the fall of the Orokin, the Grineer clones were probably thinking "we were a huge army of clones, we can definitely take on anyone". Also, of course this lore is about the Anti-Moa, the Moa we were synthesizing. So... the Anti Moa was the creation of some Corpus kid sometime soon after the fall of the Orokin, made using salvaged yet likely broken Orokin "Moas". The father confirms for us that there were Moas during the time of the Orokin that functioned in a similar oway, but looked quite different. (Likely even different from the Corrupted Moas we see) It's possible that the Moas of the Orokin were used as security systems or a robotic "police force", though that's just making a large assumption. Also: The kid would have equipped full on cannons to the Anti-Moa, but he likely couldn't because of the Grineer and harsh times. No, it's more like the son in this entry establishes the Corpus because he holds to these values of his father and those within his Corpus, or they band together and form The Corpus. But it's because that's what Orokin society was like. There were different communities/guilds/classes of people called corpora (plural of corpus). The Corpus are The Corpus because they're the only group in the system that lives in this way. Obviously, they were a merchant/trade corpus. I wouldn't jump to say that he created the anti-moa. He probably created the regular moa. It looks the cheapest, with a simple cannon on top. I'd imagine that the regular Moa predates all the other moas. I'd say that the anti-Moa wasn't made until after the Corpus recovered Corrupted Moas from the Orokin Towers, since the anti-moas look like the Corpus Fusion Moas (Corpus-manufactured versions of the Corrupted Moas). Edited April 17, 2015 by AntoineFlemming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarozian Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 That's completely different though. The sentients were an enemy of the Orokin (and Corpus were likely lower class Orokin who survived). Why would the Corpus/Orokin have an enemy of their whole kind and everyone sitting plop in the middle of their homes? Maybe they gained intelligence along the way? Then when the walkers started to turn against them they started to build themselves up differently and becoming more organized and the Orokins retreated and reorganized themselves for a counter attack. Like I said again. The current Corpus do use a device to restrain their robotics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexlars Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Well the Sentients do take control of technology don't they? And the Corpus do use a certain technology to control their MOAs to prevent them from being able to think and act freely~ None of that is even relevant though. Nothing within that composition alluded to Sentients. When he said they were different, he likely meant different in their role, appearance, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarozian Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 They are regular Corpus Moas that are corrupted by the Neural Sentry. The Corpus take those and reproduce them, but they aren't the original moas. They are Corpus Moas corrupted by the Neural Sentry. Nah I am thinking: Orokin MOAs = Proto-Sentients which then evolved into = The Sentients we see in the trailer. Corpus MOAs = Something entirely different but based off the original Orokin MOAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpl_Facehugger Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) They are regular Corpus Moas that are corrupted by the Neural Sentry. The Corpus take those and reproduce them, but they aren't the original moas. They are Corpus Moas corrupted by the Neural Sentry. And this is based on what, exactly? Normal moas don't carry drones on their backs or have short range napalm lasers, and previously every corrupted unit encountered has normal weapons, just with 100% more orokin awesomeness. Not a single corrupted unit has new capabilities unseen in their uncorrupt form. If fusion moas were just corrupted moas, why the radical design changes compared to normal moas? Where's the fusion moa's shiny gold crown? Where did the drone carry capability come from? Why is it that the only corpus moa that looks even remotely like fusion moas is the anti-moa, and even that doesn't carry drones? Why do you think the neural sentry, an entity lazy enough to dole out a strun/dera, a gold mask, and some gold paint and call it a day (most of the time it doesn't even bother switching out the gun!), would go to the trouble of completely redesigning pilfered corpus moas into fusion moas? I think the relationship between fusion moa and regular moa is more akin to the relationship between orokin drones and shield ospreys. The latter is a corpus knock off of the former. I wouldn't jump to say that he created the anti-moa I would, considering we unlocked this entry for scanning anti-moas. If we got it for scanning normal moas I'd agree with you completely, but we didn't. Last time we saw what's probably the first grineer lancer, this time we're seeing what's probably the first anti-moa. Edited April 17, 2015 by Cpl_Facehugger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarozian Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 None of that is even relevant though. Nothing within that composition alluded to Sentients. When he said they were different, he likely meant different in their role, appearance, etc. Exactly! They were killing the Orokins to the point where they had to turn to the Tenno for help! Totally different! ;D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarozian Posted April 17, 2015 Author Share Posted April 17, 2015 You know. Those Grineer might of attacked those ships to find the robot that the lad was trying to fix.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krion112 Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) -snip- It's still a slippery slope to say that Orokin Robots and Sentients are one and the same. My conclusion so far is that the Orokin were smart enough to also put restraints on their machines, having had hundreds or thousands of years to ponder everything that could go wrong with their AI controlled units; the Cephalons seem properly restrained, as we have yet to have an instance of one of them fighting us, and the fact that Ordis is damaged and has a side of hatred proves that the restraints are extremely efficient, as despite his angered side, he still has yet to decompress the Liset on us. Plus, the Corpus are known for making Orokin knock-offs, so they would probably also be using similar ways to maintain control, which means their restraints would have to be based off of Orokin robot restraints. However, the Sentients are obviously a force that could override those restraints, whether or not they are an Orokin creation. I just had a thought; what if the Sentients are kind of like the Markers from Dead Space, but instead of affecting people they affect machines? You know. Those Grineer might of attacked those ships to find the robot that the lad was trying to fix.... I was wondering that as well, after reading it a second time and going through the part where they mention that separating the boys was a 'security precaution'. Edited April 17, 2015 by Krion112 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelkor Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 This is all very fascinating about robots and AI and Sentients and all that but: What plague is he talking about that also wiped out citizens of the Orokin Empire after the fall? Given that the Infestation only recently resurfaced, I'm willing to bet that's not what he's talking about. Orokin Emperors are assassinated by the Tenno, the Grineer soldiers who were made by the Orokin expand to fill the power vacuum and turn into $&*^s, and a plague hits the Solar System too? What the S#&$, humanity can't catch a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerkev Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 I'm guessing that the last 5% took so long because they didn't write the "lore" until yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) This is all very fascinating about robots and AI and Sentients and all that but: What plague is he talking about that also wiped out citizens of the Orokin Empire after the fall? Given that the Infestation only recently resurfaced, I'm willing to bet that's not what he's talking about. Orokin Emperors are assassinated by the Tenno, the Grineer soldiers who were made by the Orokin expand to fill the power vacuum and turn into $&*^s, and a plague hits the Solar System too? What the S#&$, humanity can't catch a break. Technocyte plague. There was probably another outbreak when the Orokin lost control of it. Edited April 17, 2015 by AntoineFlemming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelkor Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) I'm guessing that the last 5% took so long because they didn't write the "lore" until yesterday. Nominally I wouldn't think that, but the fact that there's a typo in the first sentence... Technocyte plague. Isn't that just the infestation? I think there's more to it. Edited April 17, 2015 by Gelkor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 And this is based on what, exactly? Normal moas don't carry drones on their backs or have short range napalm lasers, and previously every corrupted unit encountered has normal weapons, just with 100% more orokin awesomeness. Not a single corrupted unit has new capabilities unseen in their uncorrupt form. If fusion moas were just corrupted moas, why the radical design changes compared to normal moas? Where's the fusion moa's shiny gold crown? Where did the drone carry capability come from? Why is it that the only corpus moa that looks even remotely like fusion moas is the anti-moa, and even that doesn't carry drones? Why do you think the neural sentry, an entity lazy enough to dole out a strun/dera, a gold mask, and some gold paint and call it a day (most of the time it doesn't even bother switching out the gun!), would go to the trouble of completely redesigning pilfered corpus moas into fusion moas? I think the relationship between fusion moa and regular moa is more akin to the relationship between orokin drones and shield ospreys. The latter is a corpus knock off of the former. I would, considering we unlocked this entry for scanning anti-moas. If we got it for scanning normal moas I'd agree with you completely, but we didn't. Last time we saw what's probably the first grineer lancer, this time we're seeing what's probably the first anti-moa. So you think the anti-moa predates the regular moa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krion112 Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 -snip- The Mire is mentioned to be a result of a 'Great Plague', which is likely the result of the Technocyte as well, so I'm fairly certain it is just the Infestation at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexlars Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Exactly! They were killing the Orokins to the point where they had to turn to the Tenno for help! Totally different! ;D I'm completely confused. It's like we're not even talking about the same thing here. Are you saying that the original Orokin MOAs the Dad is talking about were Sentients? If so, then you have all of my "no's." If the Orokin created the Sentients they would have been well aware of their ability to control technology, which likely would've changed everything. Plus, Sentients didn't walk on two feet, let alone "walk" at all. They float. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Nominally I wouldn't think that, but the fact that there's a typo in the first sentence... Isn't that just the infestation? I think there's more to it. Yes, it's the Infestation. But it's referred to as the Technocyte Plague when it's an outbreak, which we know happens on old Earth in Warframe's past (it's the same event in Dark Sector, but Warframe mentions an old Plague). That's the plague he's talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexlars Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) This is all very fascinating about robots and AI and Sentients and all that but: What plague is he talking about that also wiped out citizens of the Orokin Empire after the fall? Given that the Infestation only recently resurfaced, I'm willing to bet that's not what he's talking about. Orokin Emperors are assassinated by the Tenno, the Grineer soldiers who were made by the Orokin expand to fill the power vacuum and turn into $&*^s, and a plague hits the Solar System too? What the S#&$, humanity can't catch a break. Im willing to bet the Technocyte is what he's referring to. edit: seems I replied to this very late. lol Edited April 17, 2015 by Rexlars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelkor Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Yes, it's the Infestation. But it's referred to as the Technocyte Plague when it's an outbreak, which we know happens on old Earth in Warframe's past (it's the same event in Dark Sector, but Warframe mentions an old Plague). That's the plague he's talking about. I suppose, but the new "new user experience" intro quests make it out like the infestation has just made a comeback very recently due to grineer uknowing meddling. But if the technocyte went out of control post fall the only ones to stop it and get it back under control would have been the grineer, so they would presumably not be dumb enough to release it again. Idunno I'm probably missremembering, its late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krion112 Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Plus, Sentients didn't walk on two feet, let alone "walk" at all. They float. How would you know at all what the Sentients do as far as that's concerned, when we have yet to reach full clarity to the extent of what part of the Sentients we saw in the Tombs of the Sentient trailer? For all we know, those units could be of Orokin origin modified by the Sentients to better integrate with their technology. But, I do agree, if the Sentients were an Orokin creation, the Orokin also would've seen their uprising coming a mile away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelkor Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 Hrm, I don't think the Orokin created the Sentients, but I think they made the Sentients an enemy. I think the Sentients are really from beyond the solar system, but the Sentients didn't attack unprovoked, I bet the Orokin tried to subjugate them, and then started losing and the Sentients went on the offensive in retaliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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