Trinity Is A Problem

[NedTyler]

Extreme hyperbole doesn't make your argument more convincing, it just comes off as childish. My point was not that Trinity should be nerfed because she can heal, but rather that her healing is far and away the most powerful source of healing in the game (a max strength Oberon for example, can heal for 200 HP per second). Her powerful heal, when combined with her ability to stay at a 100% energy supply for an entire mission, leads to her being a required character in high-end content. This creates a vicious cycle of balance, wherein the content is then balanced around Trinity's presence, making her even more of a requirement, and making that content unnecissarily difficult (if not nearly impossible) for any team that does not bring her.

The impression you're giving is that you've never played as a trin before. If you have, you'll realize that trinity is a pure support frame. Blessing is her ultimate skill. It takes 100 energy to cast. Comparing her to oberon is not the way to go. Oberon's heal is his 3rd ability, and only takes 25 energy on cast for the initial heal. 

 

I don't know about you, but her immediate heal is justified because it's her ult., and modding for blessing often leaves you hanging in terms of range or efficiency. Meaning there's less incentive to use your energy vamp.

 

If there's one thing I've learnt since I started playing warframe, it's that you don't start hating/disliking a weapon or mechanic until you've used it and understand it. There are several examples of situations where players have made an uproar based on unreleased mechanics, or mechanics they don't understand. The recent ones I can remember now are chroma's alt helmet and the period before players realized that arcanes could be upgraded.

 

My advice to you OP is that you should try getting a trin. Level the frame, forma the frame, learn how the frames abilities work together, and learn the kind of reflexes required for team play (as good trin, your priorities in the mission aren't the same as other's). When you've understood a bit more about the frame and how it operates , you're justified in asking for a nerf. Otherwise you kinda sound selfish asking for something you've never used to get nerfed.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

I can't even start...just came from another 'trinity is too OP' type of post....I'm all out of ammunition lol

so I'll just make it quick, please, please just let her be

 

Cheers

[Kayblis]

When in doubt nerf trinity

 

Next weeks topic: remove restores because they heal and give as much energy as trinity obviously they're problematic to the game. Greedy pull mag and nekros giving infinite hp and energy? nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf

Edited April 22, 2015 by Kayblis

[gam3addict]

What if DE stopped trying to make Well of Life not useless and just removed it since it's basically pointless except for the instakill combo and gave Trinity some other 1 power, maybe a targeted or AoE buff of some kind.

Next, I think the problem isn't with Blessing's heal, range, or cost, but its instantaneous nature. What if Blessing's heal were applied over 2 or 3 seconds? This could be a buff in raw heal capability, as instead of hp gain over 100% going to waste it now heals while your squadmates take damage. This also removes the problem of panic button Blessing if spmething goes wrong allowing a single player to immediately save his team, assuming he's not CC'd at the time.

Lastly, I truly think EV and Link are perfectly fine as they are. Blessing is strong and should be, it's an ult, but maybe the immediacy of the heal is a bit odd considering most other heals in game are either incremental or regen over time. Thoughts?

Edited April 22, 2015 by gam3addict

[Uluxlan]

I think this is the only game community I've ever seen that is so adamant about nerfing everything that makes high level content possible.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

^ this guy gets it

[RealPandemonium]

I think this is the only game community I've ever seen that is so adamant about nerfing everything that makes high level content possible.

Except, what most people consider "high level content" is a side-pursuit that only begins 40 mins into a T4 mission.  People have seriously #*($%%@ with the balance of the game because of their insistence on infinite scaling support and ignoring 90% of gameplay.  We should focus on making all gameplay fun an challenging and not create an infinitely escalating update-to-update F2P cash shop game like all those Korean MMOs.  

[manub]

powerful? yes

bad for game balance? don t think so

 

using blessing as you describe it is from my experience the rarest of the rare: a trinity player who checks continually his teammates' health & has reflexes fast enough to instaheal them. I can count the number of this sort of trinity I played with on the digits of my hand, I won t need all of them, & I play since the beginning of the open beta. most of the games I played are "oh hell, I should have been faster to heal / I didn t check your health, sorry mate". teamspeak helps but not everyone uses it

 

this fact that blessing seems so op is that it sinergizes really well with energy vampire, giving trin a near infinite energy supply. so your avowed problem doesn t seem to really be with blessing but with energy vampire. but I can t see any way DE will replace this ability, it s way too useful

 

on a side note:

1- I dare you to show me a video where a team solves the raid killing ennemies rather than CCing them with trin's EV help to fuel their abilities, the mission is impossible if you don't CC the ennemies & restrain from killing too much of them so new ones don t spawn too fast

2- high level missions have always been dominated by a few frames, this is player experience talking about efficiency, not because trin supplies energy

3- you think really think blessing invalidates all challenges in the game? so why was there a rage storm when DE changed its mechanics from invincibility to damge reduction?

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

Yeah Trin is the most op frame in the game, simply because you give your entire squad 99% DMG reduction all game if you play the proper set.

[.Re-light.]

Sure, you can give them that for an amount of time.

 

  To benefit the most, you most likely won't be using Fleeting, maxing out duration. However, there is a downside to this. When content becomes damaging enough where you would want to have that reduction at max, most of the time,  if you as Trinity (with Link on, cause without it you are just dead) let yourself constantly get hit to reach 2hp, sooner or later, either burst damage to you will be 1 shoting you through QT or here and there the stun will get you killed by depleting to much energy to cast another blessing.

 

 I am talking about burst damage you may get from 2,3 enemies at once as soon as 30-40 min in t4. 60 minutes +..  just forget about it, hard CC is what keeps you alive, not Trin no matter how good the player behind her.

 

   The only way to reliably be in the zone for 99% reduction is if your whole team got flow on and QT and they are the ones taking most of damage, dropping to 2hp. Other way is to mod Castanas or Stug with some low damage and do self damage. Either of these 2 examples requires a bit too much modding cooperation throughout the whole team or modding just Trin to try and relive her old broken days and failing miserably, while being less useful then Trin with a proper gun.

 

  Only, and only then following 2 scenarios described can we talk about 99% reduction. In both cases you can easily sub the Trin for another hard CC frame and some energy, health pads and likely have more success in reaching some crazy time limit, she is definitely not a must have.

 

   Trin is fine. First ability still sucks, but 2,3,4 are in a good place. Give it a rest already.

 

Edit. Grammar

Edited April 22, 2015 by .Re-light.

[Gahrzerkire]

They should increase the invulnerability provided slighty, and then give her cast travel time. Similar to oberons regen. So unless your close you got to wait for your health to come to you.

[Pacheon]

If Trinity is such viable, don't take her for low lvl missions.

 

Consider using Trinity (nerfed) at the Raids ... have fun. GG.

[GhostMelody]

OP no.....

Don't complain about trinity being broken, she isn't, what's broken is the game itself at the moment allowing ability spam and the terrible enemy scaling.

Why keep nerfing a frame that has been nerfed from since the very next patch of her existence?

Edited April 22, 2015 by GhostMelody

[Aaira]

Well to be fair she kinda deserved her previous nerf.

Who thought "frame that can generate energy can use energy to make everyone in her team immune to damage regardless of distance for a bit" was a good idea?

[UseNet]

Oh please.. Not more Trinity nerf garbage.

It took months for DE to bring her from broken/OP/god-tier to the point where she is right at this moment, which i consider to be very skill-based and requires fast twitch reactions to be a good Trinity.

If you don't remember how OP Trinity USED to be go look at some old Youtube footage, it basically amounted to god mode on, all the time.

[Aaira]

Oh please.. Not more Trinity nerf garbage.

It took months for DE to bring her from broken/OP/god-tier to the point where she is right at this moment, which i consider to be very skill-based and requires fast twitch reactions to be a good Trinity.

If you don't remember how OP Trinity USED to be go look at some old Youtube footage, it basically amounted to god mode on, all the time.

I remember there was a clan who made a bunch of really long runs (like, 7h+ survivals, 300+ defense waves) where their setup was almost always 2 trins + other stuff, with the trins alternating blessing and everyone being immortal all the time.

Also at that level enemies'd have so much power they'd oneshot themselves hitting the immortal trinities due to link.

[BloodForTheBloodGods]

I'm suggesting adaptive resistance.  Once you cast it the resistance grows/shrinks based on how much health the affected player possesses for the duration of the effect. 

 

I'd like to explore this. Let's say, for simplicities sake, you're in a no shield Nightmare, and have a frame with 1000hp. This bless is activated. At full hp, you have 0% DR, correct?

 

An enemy is shooting at you, dealing 500 damage each shot:

First shot deals 500 damage, 500health remaining, 50% DR.

Second shot deals 250 damage, 250 Health remaining, 75%DR.

Third shot deals 125 damage, 125 Health remaining, 87.5%DR.

Fourth shot deals (62.5) 63 damage, 62 Health remaining, 93.8%DR

Fifth shot deals 31 damage, 31 Health remaining, 96.9%DR

Sixth shot deals (15.5) 16 damage, 15 Health remaining, 98.5%DR

Seventh shot deals (7.5) 8 damage, 7 Health remaining, 99.3%DR

Eighth shot deals (3.5) 4 damage, 3 Health remaining, 99.7% DR

Ninth shot deals  deals (1.5) 2 damage, 1 Health remaining, 99.9%DR

Tenth shot deals (.5) 1 damage, No Health remaining.

 

Assuming, it utilizes decimals, in the % DR. If it doesn't, you die much sooner.

 

An enemy dealing 990 damage:

First shot deals 990 damage, 10 Health remaining, 99%DR

Second shot deals (9.9) 10 damage, No Health remaining.

 

Edited April 23, 2015 by BloodForTheBloodGods

[BlueThingy]

I'd like to explore this. Let's say, for simplicities sake, you're in a no shield Nightmare, and have a frame with 1000hp. This bless is activated. At full hp, you have 0% DR, correct?

 

An enemy is shooting at you, dealing 500 damage each shot:

First shot deals 500 damage, 500health remaining, 50% DR.

Second shot deals 250 damage, 250 Health remaining, 75%DR.

Third shot deals 125 damage, 125 Health remaining, 87.5%DR.

Fourth shot deals (62.5) 63 damage, 62 Health remaining, 93.8%DR

Fifth shot deals 31 damage, 31 Health remaining, 96.9%DR

Sixth shot deals (15.5) 16 damage, 15 Health remaining, 98.5%DR

Seventh shot deals (7.5) 8 damage, 7 Health remaining, 99.3%DR

Eighth shot deals (3.5) 4 damage, 3 Health remaining, 99.7% DR

Ninth shot deals  deals (1.5) 2 damage, 1 Health remaining, 99.9%DR

Tenth shot deals (.5) 1 damage, No Health remaining.

 

Assuming, it utilizes decimals, in the % DR. If it doesn't, you die much sooner.

 

An enemy dealing 990 damage:

First shot deals 990 damage, 10 Health remaining, 99%DR

Second shot deals (9.9) 10 damage, No Health remaining.

 

 

 

It's been a while since I did the math on this but the old game City of Heroes used a mechanic like this for the Super Reflexes powerset.  The passive abilities would give you a scaling resistance to slow down the damage you took.  The point was that that character type's defenses were very weak to one-shots.  Which is similar to how highlevel Warframe plays right now.  That was the route they took to mitigate the effect.  I thought that something similar might be interesting in Warframe.

 

I am totes not ready to defend it though and honestly don't have much stake in doing so.  I'd just like to see more complicated and interesting mechanics in the game.

[Batwing]

The problem is that Trinity's instant heal is such a powerful tool that she is nearly required for high end content, meaning that said content must be balanced around the fact that the team has an on-demand teamwide heal.  This means that any team that doesn't bring Trinity will be at a severe disadvantage due to their choice.

So just because people don't want to play the support role the rupport role has to beh made less usefule so they aren't as required in the latter content ? That's the worse reasoning I've seen so far, her heal isn't as fast as most make it out to be in higher in content her heal takes so long people could loose all health before her cast animation is over. What's this nonsense of balancing the missions around warframe skills ? Warframes balancing for enemy scaling is more armor more damage more 1 shots. When has an enemy every been balanced because of a warframes ability ? the closest thing to that was nullifers which just have this super advances technology that they somehow made to stop basically space gods aka warframes.

[Kaiservadin]

Pretty soon level 1 enemys will one shot rhinos <_<

[Batwing]

Yeah Trin is the most op frame in the game, simply because you give your entire squad 99% DMG reduction all game if you play the proper set.

Have you done this reliably ? Again people making claims of what you CAN do not what is done most of the time. I know the buiild qt and rage and you let your health drop and use blessing bam 99 reduction only it takes a lot of energy to keep that going reliably and in end game you can still loose all your heath and enery in 1 shot. It's not a press 4 randomly to get god mode it requires exact timing and constant management of your energy which a lot of people can't do for too long at some point people are going down.

 

 

Trinity before WAS op godmode that you could recast yeah that was too much. Now it's just a healing ability that gets you more damage reduction if you can time the heal just right and run the exact right build. People keep acting like it's the same thing it's not.

[LynxAmurie]

Just gonna go right out of the gate here;
First, tl;dr.

Second, Trin is gorram fine. They JUST changed her, she's fine now. 

Broken? Depends on how you build her. But that's down to your play-style and understanding of the mechanics behind her abilities.
Taking advantage of that, to me, is the bloody point.

Trinity is fine.
 

[jjpdn]

The problem with this is that in this game higher level play NEEDS this. 

 

Every mistake my team mates gives me only a one second window to press Blessing.

 

Removing this completely nullifies my abilities as a healer.

 

I'm sorry, but this will be ONLY viable if this was one of those games where your health gradually goes down.

 

Also, if you're talking about her godmode, it only works if you're good with her and somehow NEVER gets knocked down. Which, of course, is impossible because you get insanely arrogant and tries to tank.

 

The hardest part about playing Trinity is keeping a cool mind.

Edited April 23, 2015 by jjpdn

[Echowing]

The problem with this is that in this game higher level play NEEDS this. 

 

That in itself is my point though.  High level play SHOULDN'T need Trinity, that's not good balance or design.  If Trinity is so powerful that she is needed in high-level play, then something needs to change.  The fact that "high-end" content means getting 1-shot regardless of frame (with 2-3 exceptions), then there is a problem with the balance of the game.

[Dragonofdarkness13]

OP ~

No just .. no Trinity Needs No more Nerfing .. She's been Nerfed Enough since she was introduced.

I am regularly asked to play as Trin because my friends Trust me to keep them Alive and not invincible.

You said you enjoy playing as trin... I honestly doubt you ever have by the fact of you asking for Blessing to be nerfed.

And E.Vamp Yes gives her energy .. but you can't maintain a stream of blessings and e.vamp without aiming and reflex skills. WELL OF LIFE I think is her only ability that needs to be changed .. Because it blows .. But blessing is fine.

your logic of Her not having the instant heal would mean no more super powerful endgame enemies is so flawed ... they insta kill not to compensate for Trin .. they do it to challenge the players. I've been in plenty of T4 missions without a trin and survived.

anyway I'm rambling ... Trinity doesn't need ANY nerfing, Leave her alone already