Trinity Is A Problem

[Echowing]

I swear De has hired people to post these things because all she gets is nerfs and then skiped for prime. SHe was made to be hated and bashed into the ground it seems.

 

No i disagree 500% if anything she needs a new first ability her ult and other skills are fine, just because people use her to skill spam a map doesn't mean she has to be nerfed into the ground also why is that even a problem ? First trinities EV then they remove energy restores and add cool downs to skills it will never end with this community.

The problem is that Trinity's instant heal is such a powerful tool that she is nearly required for high end content, meaning that said content must be balanced around the fact that the team has an on-demand teamwide heal.  This means that any team that doesn't bring Trinity will be at a severe disadvantage due to their choice.

[MidnightDreary]

Perhaps if Well of Life radiated away the targeted enemy's HP like EV does.  A good strong heal that kills the enemy and requires allies to be in range (very large range, but not infinite) and Blessing is a straight up long-lasting damage reduction, say 75% (modded by strength for higher %) for 30 seconds?  That would require Trin to juggle 3 very good skills to be most effective.  When I play Trin I know I always have enough energy to easily do this.

 

Or maybe just change that awful well of life mod to act like EV - that would be cool too, particularly with the EV mod adding shields.

[THND3RZ]

i'm a trinity player.Honestly find her to be the best frame.She's so easy to play and damn powerful.I don't mind her being  a healer it's really nice,but once you have a trinity in your group,your squad is pretty much GOD MODE.Kinda boring.

[as3mbus]

instant full heal, cant do much with lvl 50~ u think casting EV doesnt need target, do you think without link trin can get *@##$slapped rly fast before she hav a chance to cast her skill. and she is very squishy without duration build ?(even solo-ing draco is hard without it)

 

i dont see much trinity as much as loki are. she got too much nerf, and when it getting more nerf ppl just keep finding a way to make her shine. until they nerf it to the ground and dont hav much role to do as you can see on excalibur now (without the new augment he is just RJ & blinding machine with some miss chance [im sorry xcal player i kno not all of you do that]).

and yes the 99% DR is great but if u kno how to do it right at the right time.

i think we still hard to find gud trin these days :l

lastly i dont mind if she got nerfed, i kno ppl out there can make her viable again :)

[ArcariusAero]

It's supposed to "bless your allies" with a large health restore (for a 'large amount' of energy).

and also this quote is finally making good use.

 

 

 

 

 You can quote me on this in the future if you'd like.

[Falchoin]

After thinking about it, I too think Blessing needs a rework.

 

Now I play Trinity as my main warframe, with over 1400 hours in game.  So I at least have an inkling of how to play her.  However I don't really like her current incarnation of Blessing.  It's better balanced than way back when I started playing, but it still needs work.  My main problem with Trinity's Blessing isn't the fact it heals, but that it does it all instantly.  As has been stated, this means players need to take lethal damage in one shot (or effectively so, given reflexes) for that damage to be meaningful.  I also dislike how the damage mitigation from Blessing encourages self damage paired with QT to get the maximum benefit (but that's more my own bias showing).

 

If I could bend a devs ear my suggestions would be something along one of these two lines...

1) Blessing grants 50% damage shield (not scaling with power str) and heals for 100 hp/shields (scaling with power str) instantly and that same amount once per second for 10 seconds (scaling with duration, HoT sticks for the full duration even if the player is at max health).  Stacks multiplicitively with other damage shields (i.e.: A Trinity with Link and Blessing active takes 600 damage before mitigation.  Link drops the damage to 150.  Blessing further reduces the damage to 75.).  Can be recast while active for shield maintenance or faster healing.  Also, NOT a toggle like Oberon's Renewal.

 

2) A more controversial take on Trinity involves splitting Blessing into two different abilities.  The heal would be as above and still be in her 4 slot.  The team damage shield portion of Blessing as above would replace Well of Life with a base duration of 15 or 20 seconds (scaling with duration).  I know it would remove the WoL+EV heavy killer builds so it probably will never happen but at least this way she wouldn't have as much overlap in her abilities.

 

Bringing the post full circle, I think either of the two suggestions above would still let Trinity be the best heal/support frame without requiring her to rely on gimmicks for max damage mitigation and let the devs build content that's more than just dodge or die.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Falchoin

[Beetamus]

In my opinion, the main reason Trinity is a problem is Energy Vampire. This move basically makes it so everyone can spam abilities all day long. Having said that, it's more of a game design flaw than anything else. Maybe replacing it (or reworking her) with something else useful and making people use energy restores might be a idea?

 

This is less about nerfing her and more about quality of life and balance in game. ALL frames should get the treatment, not just 1 or 2.

[swodaem]

Stop calling for a nerf on everything. Trinity is support, she doesn't do the damage other frames do - her ulti is the heal so of course it should be stronger in comparision to oberons heal.

 

You can easily say Vauban, or Mesa, or any other frame that either kills everything or prevents mobs from entering an area to be nerfed.

 

I believe other frames need a buff to be as useful as others. But a Trinities purpose is to heal - no one is e ever satisfied.

[swodaem]

Or lets just turn this into a gun game, since everyone calls for nerfs on all warframes constantly

[RealPandemonium]

Or lets just turn this into a gun game, since everyone calls for nerfs on all warframes constantly

The guns need to be nerfed too.  Guns doing too much damage is why people consider ability damage useless and insist on abilities that turn off gameplay at high levels (80+) where our guns still have killing power for no reason.  

Edited April 20, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[Kaiservadin]

if it is such a problem just remove it restoring shields.

[EchoesOfRain]

Stop calling for a nerf on everything. Trinity is support, she doesn't do the damage other frames do - her ulti is the heal so of course it should be stronger in comparision to oberons heal.

 

You can easily say Vauban, or Mesa, or any other frame that either kills everything or prevents mobs from entering an area to be nerfed.

 

I believe other frames need a buff to be as useful as others. But a Trinities purpose is to heal - no one is e ever satisfied.

 

Okay, so if Trinity could make allies permanently invincible, disables all enemy weapons, locks down all enemies on the map in place, and can fully restore ally energy at the press of a button, does that make her balanced? She's not doing damage, so hey, she must be balanced, right!?

 

1. People are already crying out for a fix to "Press 4 to win". It's not just Trin at fault in this situation

2. Trinity further encourages those frames to kills everything/cc lockdown mobs with infinite energy supply.

 

We all know that her purpose is to heal, and we aren't trying to take that away from her. We want her to be useful, but not essential in end game content such as raids. And again, Trin isn't the only one at fault here. Other frames do needs buffs, nerfs and reworks to be properly balanced.

[nekrojiji]

 The biggest offender to balance is her ultimate ability, Blessing.  Blessing will almost immediately restore your team's health and shields to full, regardless of range.

 

really!? .... that's the biggest problem with Trinity?! .... the fact that she restores full HP and shields?!  What about the 99% damage reduction?! 

 

Is the fact that any raid party always has a Trinity a good thing!?  Do you think that Trinity is there to regen full HP and shields!? no! ....it's for the 99% damage reduction.

 

This game is #*($%%@ up beyond repairing ...... the way the game works will always call for a Trinity, Loki or Nova in the squad ...... and that sucks ....

 

 

TL;DR: Trinity's Blessing makes it such that any hit that is not an instant kill is meaningless, and Energy Vampire makes Blessing's normally high cost meaningless.  In order to kill Trinity or her allies, they have to kill in a single hit, which is not fun.

 

Any hit ..... not just non lethal one....Trinity's Blessing makes any hit meaningless.

 

With a Trinity in the squad ... you never die .... without one you die isntantly .... Sooo.... that's not Trinity ... that's the game!

Edited April 20, 2015 by nekrojiji

[ItWasntMeIPromise]

TL;DR: Trinity's Blessing makes it such that any hit that is not an instant kill is meaningless, and Energy Vampire makes Blessing's normally high cost meaningless.  In order to kill Trinity or her allies, they have to kill in a single hit, which is not fun.

 

Here we go again...

 

[ItWasntMeIPromise]

really!? .... that's the biggest problem with Trinity?! .... the fact that she restores full HP and shields?!  What about the 99% damage reduction?! 

 

Is the fact that any raid party always has a Trinity a good thing!?  Do you think that Trinity is there to regen full HP and shields!? no! ....it's for the 99% damage reduction.

 

This game is #*($%%@ up beyond repairing ...... the way the game works will always call for a Trinity, Loki or Nova in the squad ...... and that sucks ....

 

With a Trinity in the squad ... you never die .... without one you die isntantly .... Sooo.... that's not Trinity ... that's the game!

 

Hey, hey... Its cool.

 

I just got through giving you mad respect in another thread for your feedback.

 

You seem a little heated. Its all in the game. Squads are flexible. They require 8. Chances of having one of the 3 you mentioned is pretty high. People main Loki and Trinity all the time. Its pretty natural to bring them a long. No one is forcing to do anything here.

 

I kind of like trinity now but in a situation where I HAD to suggest a change, like ABSOLUTELY, like someone was going to cut off my balls and make me watch as they played a game of pool with them, as I'm strapped to a chair bleeding out, listening to Rebecca Blacks greatest hits on loop... I would suggest same mechanic but a base 15% DR and a cap at 85%.

 

If I had too... Like life or death.

Edited April 20, 2015 by ItWasntMeIPromise

[ItWasntMeIPromise]

Stop calling for a nerf on everything. Trinity is support, she doesn't do the damage other frames do - her ulti is the heal so of course it should be stronger in comparision to oberons heal.

 

You can easily say Vauban, or Mesa, or any other frame that either kills everything or prevents mobs from entering an area to be nerfed.

 

I believe other frames need a buff to be as useful as others. But a Trinities purpose is to heal - no one is e ever satisfied.

 

Actually agree 100%. There isn't really a problem here. Just someones opinion. Main trinity for long enough and you'll realize she has downsides.

[ItWasntMeIPromise]

The guns need to be nerfed too.  Guns doing too much damage is why people consider ability damage useless and insist on abilities that turn off gameplay at high levels (80+) where our guns still have killing power for no reason.  

 

Is this sarcasm? Really Real? I'm hoping this is sarcasm.

 

This is what I've said about this before:

 

Infinite scaling is a thing. Its built into the game. A dev didn't just spill his coffee and oops infinite scaling. I don't understand why this is the main point of contention in weapons balancing.

 

Sure, maybe a new level 30 weapon shouldn't annihilate in a level 55 mission (atm none do) everyone can agree here. But after I reactor & forma & mod my weapon right it should be really good.

 

And that's infinite scaling comes into play. I wish players would stop using infinite scaling as the "reason" for "balancing" the weapons after they have been upgraded several times.

 

Whats with the lets nerf everything attitude in this forum? How is peoples idea of balance so one sided.

[faustias]

OP if you want to nerf Trinity's Blessing because of the instant heal, then you're looking at that ability wrong.

[evil_m3nace]

The problem is that Trinity's instant heal is such a powerful tool that she is nearly required for high end content, meaning that said content must be balanced around the fact that the team has an on-demand teamwide heal.  This means that any team that doesn't bring Trinity will be at a severe disadvantage due to their choice.

you are implying that anything in the game is built around anything. at the 2 hour mark in most defences save for murcury levels, the game will kick your &#! so hard even if you have a trinity on your team.

[VonWagner]

Soooooooooooooooo... one player using trinity killed you, and then, come to the forum and ask for nerf.. nice

Buy ten new fingers (prime ones) and with mods :D

[TaylorsContraction]

Rework enemy variety and scaling first

[Crewell]

This is why I hoped DE would never add PvP to the game. People start whining for nerfs because of it.

[Echowing]

This is why I hoped DE would never add PvP to the game. People start whining for nerfs because of it.

 

Soooooooooooooooo... one player using trinity killed you, and then, come to the forum and ask for nerf.. nice

Buy ten new fingers (prime ones) and with mods :D

I never mentioned PvP (I don't personally play it and as such won't comment on its balance).  I meant my statements in a PvE setting.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I think the Health Regen is fine, although I did think DE was testing 'waters' with Oberon's Renewal draining energy over time for heal over distance.

-I think they may apply that to Blessing

I think a Universal 95% Damage Reduction Cap would be balanced. Matching Mirage & Mesa....bringing Trinity and Valkyr to a.more even playing field.

95% cap could be applied to Damage Reduction before Armor Damage Mitigation, meaning adding 95% Damage Reduction on a Valkyr/Chroma with 90+% Damage Mitigation from Armor....would greatly boost their Effective Health and also so Armor buffs from Oberon, Valkyr, and Chroma have some more team play when paired with Mirage, Mesa, or Trinity.

[climatiseur]

I've seen many above disagreeing on OP but never really give their proper arguments. People that's not how you convince others.

 

To OP, I cannot agree with you on her 4th being too good.

 

1. Trinity nearly has the least mean of crowd control / damage capacity among all the frames. Even Loki has radial disarm, which is very strong; Saryn has miasma stun as well as Molt for distraction.  Trinity can only provide maximum 2 stun at a time - Well of life + Energy Vamipre.  In this game requiring good Crowd control to help your team to stay alive, she will need another good enough ability to compensate for her lack of damage and controlling capacity, to hold the whole group. Blessing is the answer for that.

 

2. As powerful as it seems, blessing isn't the kind of ability that you can blindly spam to enjoy the greatest effect. In fact, the mechanic that give damage resistance base on the healing amount make it really thoughtful to use - you would want to get the best timing to give as much damage resistance on your team, as giving a pitful 10% damage resistance may get your team all down while in the heat of a battlefield.

 

3. It really require the user to carefully pay attention to all allies health in order to benefit from blessing. Most of the situation I have encountered is that the trinity in my team didn't pay enough attention and getting teammates down. Even myself - when I use Trinity, I make sure I am always alerted on my teams' condition - as careful as I try hard, there are times that I cannot heal my teammates in time to avoid them going down. Because when using trinity, you are basically super multitasking - picking up well of life and EV targets, paying attention to the timer of Link (because you should never be the one to go down) as well as your team's health. It is so stressful, maybe that's why I don't use her often.

 

All in all, I don't think her 4th is really a big issue. Yes, if your team has a good trinity, it's quite possible for your team to stay up very long. Yet, It really require heavy multitasking and skillful usage for the trinity. And it's nothing wrong to reward skillful and thoughtful users. It is not the ability that you can cast mindlessly, uncarefully to benefit the best amount of it.

 

Remember, with a Trinity in your team, you already have one less member to provide good CC / damage. Thus, her ultimate healing ability should be justify to compensate the loss.

 

As for the "in XX level, ability's damage doesn't matter, you have your weapons" argument, I can assure you, in that level, the trinity user will just be more stressful multitasking to help keeping the team alive. If she can manage that, there is nothing wrong with it, as the effort given is justified for the result. Should one careless mistake arise, there is a huge risk for the whole team. This is not an ability that can used really easily.