The Nerfers

[letir]

So if there are plenty of good guns in warframe, why throw a hissy fit about the synoid ?

 

You chose the wrong syndicate, couldnt be bothered to change it and do the grind to get the synoid, so you demanded a nerf.

 

Would I have cared if the other syndicate weapons got a buff instead of the synoid getting a nerf ?

 

 

 

The more good guns in the game the better.

 

I hate meh.

Bcs it was over-the-top OP. Easy as what.

 

I've got a right Syndicate and get bored with it fast.

 

There is nothing about "envy", it's only in your head. Nobody cares about Loka, or Perrish, or Arbiters. People talking about SG and about Rakta Ballistica, because they care about balance.

 

 

What are you know about "good" and "meh", child of the Power Creep? Nothing. You can't even understand a simple thing: "Perfect" cheat-gun is makes gameplay dull and boring.

Edited April 20, 2015 by letir

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

So if there are plenty of good guns in warframe, why throw a hissy fit about the synoid ?

 

Easy.

 

Syndicate Envy.

 

You chose the wrong syndicate, couldnt be bothered to change it and do the grind to get the synoid, so you demanded a nerf.

 

Would I have cared if the other syndicate weapons got a buff instead of the synoid getting a nerf ?

 

Not all.

 

The more good guns in the game the better.

 

I hate meh.

I'm max rank in Suda. If I weren't I could simply sell the much more rare Cestras or Ballista. Also, how do other weapons like the Boltor Prime come into play? (weapons you said you don't have, but I do and think should be nerfed).

If you're going to accuse someone else of having an ulterior motive, you better be certain you're right. Unless of course you're trolling and I somehow keep taking the bait.

[vaugahn]

Meh is not a bad weapon.

 

Meh is meh.

 

A bad weapon is a bad weapon.

 

A meh weapon is simply meh.

 

By the way. Its not a straw man argument.

 

Its a theory.

 

It's almost like you don't even know what you're arguing about. Should I go back in the thread and find every post accusing people of wanting mediocre weapons?

 

And no, that's a textbook strawman. "I'm going to ignore any actual argument you gave, you're just jealous!"

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

1. Man I can use it and it still outbursts my Rakta. Rakta is worse than it still so I dunno why your saying it needs to give it's buff back.

2. It's pretty reasonable as the tradeoff for all that insane damage per second is the low ammo efficency so yeah, it's more than reasonable. It's a bit annoying to run out of ammo, but hey like I said, that's the tradeoff.

3. I very much understand how it got nerf'd and man I like it, I can use other weapons or use it without being invalidated.

4. I suffer from the best thinking around, positive thinking my friend. Bro, can you even Synoid?

 

 

10 so because the ratka is rubbiah, its ok that the synoid is too. Gotcha.

 

2) So now you cant kill anything as you run out of ammo before they die. Great. No problem here. Nothing to see. Move along. 

 

3) I am glad you are happy. Thats great. The nerf did its work. Fantastic.

 

4) Its good the synoid got nerfed, as it doesnt bother you. Fantastic. Again.

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

It's almost like you don't even know what you're arguing about. Should I go back in the thread and find every post accusing people of wanting mediocre weapons?

 

And no, that's a textbook strawman. "I'm going to ignore any actual argument you gave, you're just jealous!"

 

 

You do know that a game based on entirely on balance is a game filled entirely with mediocre weapons ?

 

You do understand the meaning of the word balanced dont you ?

 

That it implies a balance eg all the same level of mediocrity ? 

[Nox174]

10 so because the ratka is rubbiah, its ok that the synoid is too. Gotcha.

 

2) So now you cant kill anything as you run out of ammo before they die. Great. No problem here. Nothing to see. Move along. 

 

3) I am glad you are happy. Thats great. The nerf did its work. Fantastic.

 

4) Its good the synoid got nerfed, as it doesnt bother you. Fantastic. Again.

Exactly! You get it now! The nerf was great! I love nerfs! Bring em on baby! I want a Rakta Nerf with another Synoid nerf! Maybe a Marelok Nerf, though leave the Vaykor, I actually own that so I don't want it nerfed, that'd be bad.

[MaverickZero]

Most used secondary(11%) is still my 1st Synoid Gammacor. Sold many Synoids as well. And this thing needed a nerf badly and it got nerfed too badly.

 

Nerfs are necessary evil. Just like bans to malicious players and locks on horrible threads.

 

If you are as AWESOME as you keep telling yourself then you won't have a hard time moving on to the next OP thing.

 

Or you can play with your favorite weapons regardless of the tier like I and many others do. That requires effort and some skill and might not be good for the weak of heart. Such as yourself.

[MechNexus]

By the way. Its not a straw man argument.

 

Its a theory.

Oh hey, a broken clock is right twice a day, you're right: it's not strawman.

it's Ad Hominem instead.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

[vaugahn]

Oh hey, a broken clock is right twice a day, you're right: it's not strawman.

it's Ad Hominem instead.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

 

It's both, actually.

 

He's deflecting attention onto a made up argument of his choice, which is a strawman. That made up argument is a character attack, which is an ad hominem. That's two in one!

Edited April 20, 2015 by vaugahn

[MechNexus]

It's both, actually.

 

He's deflecting attention onto a made up argument of his choice, which is a strawman. That made up argument is a character attack, which is an ad hominem. That's two in one!

Oh damn son you're right.

[mishmashmarsh]

Why would anyone demand a weapon that is not part of the PvP section of the game, demand a weapon is nerfed ?

 

Why !

 

I can understand demands for a nerf if a weapon is horribly imbalanced in PvP and it dominates the game.  

 

But why would anyone complain that a weapon is useful in T4 missions and demand it be nerfed ?

 

Is it jealousy ?

 

Spite ?

 

Stupidity ?

 

Could someone who has ever demanded a nerf explain their motivation for it.

 

Havent you ever thought ' Okay, I dont use this weapon at the moment as I am not doing high level missions. But I will be doing high level missions once I am no longer a noob, and then I may want to have a decent weapon to use on high level missions'.

 

Do you not think of this ?

 

Do you put an knee jerk emotional spasm before logic ?

 

THANK YOU SO MUCH. This man right here is a saint, the only one that actually thinks. let me ask everyone something if your 60 mins into a T4 survival what weapons are you gonna use to kill everything when you have all the good weapons nerfed hmm? 

 

Fanboys: " well DE wouldn't want us to go that far into a T4 its hard" stop it.

[(XBOX)ultamite hero]

Well no noob should scream NERFS ON MY CHROMA HE'S FINE AS IT IS. Don't touch my preciouse chroma.

[MechNexus]

THANK YOU SO MUCH. This man right here is a saint, the only one that actually thinks. let me ask everyone something if your 60 mins into a T4 survival what weapons are you gonna use to kill everything when you have all the good weapons nerfed hmm? 

 

Fanboys: " well DE wouldn't want us to go that far into a T4 its hard" stop it.

Well, they're not wrong. The game isn't balanced for 60 mins+ of T4, hell, T4 as a whole is supposed to be a challenge.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

You do know that a game based on entirely on balance is a game filled entirely with mediocre weapons ?

 

You do understand the meaning of the word balanced dont you ?

 

That it implies a balance eg all the same level of mediocrity ?

If you're serious about all of this, you're hurting your arguments more than anyone else could.

Balance is something that plenty of games are better at than Warframe, and many of those are much more highly regarded. What other games have you played? What other games are you playing now?

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

THANK YOU SO MUCH. This man right here is a saint, the only one that actually thinks. let me ask everyone something if your 60 mins into a T4 survival what weapons are you gonna use to kill everything when you have all the good weapons nerfed hmm? 

 

Fanboys: " well DE wouldn't want us to go that far into a T4 its hard" stop it.

I've already posted the same thing I always post twice on this thread, but you can tell me where I'm wrong on that.

[mishmashmarsh]

Well, they're not wrong. The game isn't balanced for 60 mins+ of T4, hell, T4 as a whole is supposed to be a challenge.

 

Want a challenge? stay longer.

[vaugahn]

the only one that actually thinks

 

I love this mindset. It's impossible to argue against because anything that challenges it is automatically false by default. 

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

THANK YOU SO MUCH. This man right here is a saint, the only one that actually thinks. let me ask everyone something if your 60 mins into a T4 survival what weapons are you gonna use to kill everything when you have all the good weapons nerfed hmm? 

 

Fanboys: " well DE wouldn't want us to go that far into a T4 its hard" stop it.

 

 

 

If you're serious about all of this, you're hurting your arguments more than anyone else could.

Balance is something that plenty of games are better at than Warframe, and many of those are much more highly regarded. What other games have you played? What other games are you playing now?

 

 

Name these better 'balanced' games.

 

What games am I playing right now.

 

Planetside 2 beta.

Bloodborne.

Advanced Warfare.

Destiny.

Titanfall.

Battlefield 4.

 

My PS3 is suffering a tech issue and I cannot be bothered to sort it out.

[mishmashmarsh]

Name these better 'balanced' games.

 

What games am I playing right now.

 

Planetside 2 beta.

Bloodborne.

Advanced Warfare.

Destiny.

Titanfall.

Battlefield 4.

 

My PS3 is suffering a tech issue and I cannot be bothered to sort it out.

 

I have no idea why I'm quoted in this lol

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Name these better 'balanced' games.

What games am I playing right now.

Planetside 2 beta.

Bloodborne.

Advanced Warfare.

Destiny.

Titanfall.

Battlefield 4.

My PS3 is suffering a tech issue and I cannot be bothered to sort it out.

Haven't played PS2 or Bloodborne, but if you think AW, Destiny, Titanfall, or BF4 have worse balance than Warframe I don't know what to tell you. Unfortunately they're all primarily PvP (save Destiny) but even in their PvE sections the balance remains intact. Edited April 20, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

Its like the whole world has bought into the Meh Mindset.

 

Everyone must be equal.

 

Nothing must excel.

 

All guns must do the same amount of damage.

 

Nothing must be good, excellent or powerful.

 

Lets all run around with meh guns fighting power creep enemies like the Manics or Riot Moas or Bombadiers.

 

Thats proper balancing.

I have no idea why I'm quoted in this lol

 

Nor do I.

 

Quote Gremlins attack ! 

[vaugahn]

Thats proper balancing.

 

No it's not.

 

That's made-up balancing, created by you.

[Rakosta_Kai]

Yes, it's highly debatable. 

 

The Synoid overbuff, that was bad. The Synoid overnerf, that was also bad. There, an example of a bad buff and a bad nerf both from recent months. You even mentioned it in your post.

 

You cannot debunk this without resorting to outright lies or manipulation of the truth. I'm sorry. There are good nerfs and bad nerfs, good buffs and bad buffs. Sometimes both at the same time. That's just how it works. Your "no nerfs ever" ideology is pointless, it gets us nowhere just as fast as asking only for nerfs.

 

That's easy... Name a good nerf.

Name a nerf to a weapon that restored balance to the game and then maintained it.

 

 

Really?? You honestly believe that?

 

Considering buffs outnumber nerfs numerically, and considering some of the things that have had the most calls to get nerfed remain un-nerfed, I find that highly unlikely. 

 

 

 

Really?? What are the numbers? 

Now count the stealth nerfs...

Now count the stealth nerfs to older weapons (those happen too, fyi)...

Now count the nerfs to mechanics that don't actually effect the weapon itself but only seem to affect items that have been complained about....

You offered to provide numerical data...

Do so.

 

 

 

Do you know that? Do you know that for sure?

 

Or are you just claiming to know why someone is saying what they're saying so you can write off their argument without even addressing it? That fallacy is one of the most harmful attitudes I see in this community, ignoring feedback by claiming bias on the part of the person giving feedback. It's a not-so-subtle attempt to discredit people, simply because you don't like what they're saying. 

 

You're part of the problem if you think that way. Address a proposal on its individual merits. If they are so fallacious and ridiculous as you claim, they should be easy to take apart.

 

I don't have to make claims... It's a fairly simple argument.

 

The only 2 valid arguments operate on a logical fallacy...

 

I can say an argument using supports like balance and power creep are specious and full of fallacies because they simply are.

Those arguments ask to address something going forward when the issue they are complaining about is backward facing.

This is in the face of issues like power creep...

Logical fallacy employed.

It is impossible for xyz weapon to remain at the top tier when competitive weapons are constantly being released.

 

Those arguers don't know what is next on the release roster.

They don't know what the next item's DPS will be.

They are simply assuming it won't be as strong as the thing they are whining about.

 

It's an inherently myopic argument...

 

They only know two things:

What has happened up to the day they decided to whine about it.

That power creep exists and is active.

 

So sure, Synoid got nerfed...

In the process the way the weapon actually works got changed.

 

How did that impact the game other than to waste many hours of player's time?

 

...It didn't.

 

 

 

[(PSN)thehoocodfather]

Haven't played PS2 or Bloodborne, but if you think AW, Destiny, Titanfall, or BF4 have worse balance than Warframe I don't know what to tell you. Unfortunately they're all primarily PvP (save Destiny) but even in their PvE sections the balance remains intact.

 

You havent played with the new LMG shotgun in call of duty then have you.

 

How about Gjallarhorn ?

 

What about the shotguns / fusion rifles in Destiny PvP ?

 

How about the choppers in BF4 with a buddy sitting in the co-pilot seat with a repair tool ?

 

The quest for balance is a quest for utopia, its a a path only to mediocrity. 

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

Really.

 

You think that collecting 100,000 syndicate points and all the parts and credits to obtain a pre-nerf synoid was easy ?

 

You think that after all the work those players put in to obtain that weapon, that it should have been over powered ?

 

Did you have one ? 

The answer is yes, yes it was easy.  Took me 3 days... less than an hour a day.