[Melee] Rapier

[Nedwin]

So.. Warframe is not ninja game? Okay...

 

 

From left to the right -> Excalibur, Rhino, Loki, Ash.

 

 

 

Cardinal Richelieu is feared across the galaxy. You must eliminate him.

 

 

Change of plans. Pick up jewelry from Backingam, deliver it to Queen and get to extraction.

 

 

I'm detecting a large security force heading your way. It's the Cardinal's Guards!

 

 

Nice work Tenno. Get to extraction tavern.

 

 

 

 

[_Chaser]

mi'lady lotus is watching you

[Otaiken]

Well, rapier is dueling weapon. You don't do much dueling in warframe, do you? It also feels out of place to me. While rapier is agile weapon, it doesn't fit this game at all. Am I the only one who thinks that fencing (while effective) looks rather ridiculous? Now imagine warframes fencing...  Out of all styles fencing is the least cool one and since this is a video game, cool factor is rather important. And single target fast attack melee weapons are the least viable in warframe already, I see no need to add another one for no one to use.

 

Not to mention we already have armor piercing single target fast weapons. They're called daggers. Balance daggers, so they're viable. How exactly would rapier be different from dagger (gameplay wise). It's important to know, because if you're making brand new animations, models and effects you'd better be damn sure that this new weapon type is unique in some way.

Edited May 17, 2013 by LocoWithGun

[Latronico]

As a HEMA-fan i'd love to see this happen..

Although they might not fit the fluidity of combat in general.

A rapier lacks the mass to do much but inflict crippling injuries with slashes mainly killing by stabbing, rendering the kills visually unimpressive.

unless the devs add artery spray.. (hey, it worked in american ninja, so it must be real, right?)

 

 

Offtopic:

A proper longsword wouldnt hurt either.

dissapointed with the caveman club called the Gram.

 

Example of a longsword flourish to give some idea of what using a longsword might look like.. (not me in the vid)

(by no means perfect, but gives an idea)

 

First of all I have to say I practice and study HEMA since 10 years (I'm quite young but I started when I was a boy) and I studied italians manuals as Flos Duellatorum (all three books, Morgan, Getty and Pisani-Dossi), Arte gladiatoria dimicandi of Vadi, Opera nova from Marozzo and some german manuals as Liechtenauer and Talhoffer (plus french ones, but not so much, I prefear italian ones).

However, we still have a good collections of weapons. There are swords, a two-hand sword, hammers, mauls, daggers... not bad at all. The problem isn't the quantity of different weapons, but movements of Warframe that are using them. They don't seem martial artists, proud warriors using an elegant and deadly weapons, but instead crazy people with a machete that want to chop all what they encounter....

 

Ok, the story tells about those Tennos from a far future so probabily they don't use weapons as men did during XV/XVI centuries (also we don't do it.... and just 6 centuries passed), but they need more 'style'. They're warriors, not angry people as I said before.... Something that could looks similar to a Tenno's martial art! Maybe a fusion of European tecniques (as fron Talhoffer or Fiore de' Liberi) with Asian ones (from Kenjutsu and Kung fu.

Aren't Tennos proud warriors from the Orokin Era of Earth? Well, they MUST fight as them [proud warrior, martial artists].

All what I mean is: melee attacks movements must be fixed. XD

 

P.S.: to people who talk about having a melee weapon in the future. That's true, blades can't cut iron, steel and titanium, but they were not invented for this. To destroy a tank, an aircraft or something else there are fire weapons. To destroy a ship there are explosives. To kill infantry and robotic units, for people who can manipulate fire, ice, magnetism, electricity, that can do 6 meters jumps and become invisible.... well, there are melee weapons too. :D

[VScipii26]

People are getting too antsy of the "but it's not ninja!" What is ninja about me sprinting around with a Greataxe, Magnum, and Shotgun, huh?

I would love rapiers. I own a rapier. I can use it, and a rapier is actually better at getting past heavy armor than a slashing weapon like a katana or longsword.

[_Chaser]

Well, rapier is dueling weapon. You don't do much dueling in warframe, do you?

 

dojo

 

 

It also feels out of place to me. While rapier is agile weapon, it doesn't fit this game at all. Am I the only one who thinks that fencing (while effective) looks rather ridiculous? Now imagine warframes fencing...  Out of all styles fencing is the least cool one and since this is a video game, cool factor is rather important.

 

ak-47 doesn't look impressive. it's simple, reliable weapon that works. thats what matter.

piercing swords were made for piercing armor and doing it effectivly. getting S#&$ done is most important for weapon.

 

And single target fast attack melee weapons are the least viable in warframe already, I see no need to add another one for no one to use.

Not to mention we already have armor piercing single target fast weapons.

 

originality and versality are major factors for any ingame item. specially for weapons. katanas are too mainstream just like major part of jap weapons. times of american ninja and wow factor on asian themes is gone. 

 

 any other questions?

Edited May 17, 2013 by n7snk

[ValhaHazred]

A rapier is just as capable getting a fast kill as a Katana or any other sword if the wielder knows what they are doing. It's not like it magically forces you into a one on one fight.

 

If you want to see some good fighting with rapiers watch the Princess Bride. Inigo Montoya kills tons of mooks with single swipes and stabs.

[_Chaser]

not sure if it's as brutal as it was historicallt but i will surely give it a try

[Caliocerion]

Rapiers certainly are not armor piercing. In fact, most duels that involve rapiers end with light to medium wounds instead of heavy wounds and death. They are not a weapon designed for war or killing people, more of a self-defense, ornamental thingy.

[_Chaser]

Rapiers certainly are not armor piercing. In fact, most duels that involve rapiers end with light to medium wounds instead of heavy wounds and death. They are not a weapon designed for war or killing people, more of a self-defense, ornamental thingy.

ok seems like i had to quote myself 2nd time

 

 

i do appreciate your comment but you should probably read the OP carefull.

 

 

here goes wiki

 

As armour improved, so did the methods of attacking the armour. It was quickly realized that cutting weapons were losing their effectiveness, so crushing weapons such as maces and axes were utilized. But thrusting weapons that could split the rings of mail, or find the joints and crevices of plate armour, were also employed. Long tapered swords could also be used as a lance once the lance was splintered. Thus was the estoc developed. The French word estoc translates to thrust Tuck is the abbreviated English version of the word. Many consider the estoc a forerunner of the rapier, but more likely it is a merging of the espada ropera, a civilian sword, with the effective, and lighter estoc, that produced the rapier. But the estoc was an effective weapon. The long, straight blade was very rigid and could be thrust with one hand, or the second hand could be used to deliver an even more powerful thrust.

[ValhaHazred]

Rapiers certainly are not armor piercing. In fact, most duels that involve rapiers end with light to medium wounds instead of heavy wounds and death. They are not a weapon designed for war or killing people, more of a self-defense, ornamental thingy.

 

You appear to confusing Rapiers, a bladed and pointed weapon designed for punching through armor and impaling organs, with a Foil, a weapon designed for sport and practice. 

 

 

I dare you to say you could take a hit from any of those without grievous injury.

Edited May 18, 2013 by ValhaHazred

[Vesskel]

I'm just going to say, I like the idea. I don't think it'd be too out of place, and if nothing else it could be a fashion statement.

[Cyanure666]

Just a thought...

 

Well depend of what the rapier is made in,can be a nice choice for a change,couple it with a "main gauche" (parrying dagger of sort) or a blade breaker

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapier

 

Rapier as appeared in many SciFI RPG(pen a paper) and is still used a lots (Space Opera RPG:Coagulator Rapier/Foil//Neuronic Rapier/Foil   ,Traveler RPG: Rapier or Foil with a special treatment,Shock Damages...),Mega RPG: Thermo Krill(a kind of stake weapons heated to thousand degree of temperature...),Cyberpunk RPG 2020:A straight tin monocristal sword,hidden in a cane....

 

It may have a problem(been less efficient on heavily armored opponent like Grineer(50% damages) but more efficient on soft one like infested(150% damage)

 

lastly with Vauban in the house,why not a rapier?(or it s cousin)

[Nuntium]

This idea has the Nuntium seal of approval!

[purafyre]

Rapiers and daggers.

 

Dark souls/demon souls made them quite viable/fun with the addition of parry counters and mid combat backstabs. I feel warframe would be exceptionally fun for the melee oriented if you were able to add mid combat backstabs and parries that change up into auto crit animated counters. It would make supreme use of the mobility aspect of the game and give people a reason to use that block button more often.

 

Block button at just the right timing? opponent's melee attack is deflected/parried. Allowing for a window of opportunity where the immediate press of melee attack button triggers an animated counter or opportunity to sidle up behind them and backstab depending on the weapon in hand. Rapier into vital organ counter, dagger into stance shift, backstab.

 

On top of all that, stamina management suddenly becomes an issue again as too much use of that block button at the wrong time drains your stamina fast. And then you'd have to decide if thats the thing you want to do in the middle of an intense firefight.

 

Teleporting then becomes super fun.

Teammates become exceptional people to have around and draw attention away from you so you can sidle up behind a grineer thats firing at them and then stab him in the ganj.

 

Loki's disarm suddenly becomes this thing you HAVE to equip just to have more opportunities to just chain counter an entire room of melee attackers.

 

Instead of whacking away with a baseball bat berserk style or firing away with a friggin big gun, you can then take this play style where you become a whirling dervish of graceful death making every stab count and looking supremely cool doing it.

 

Oh and more blood spray please. If we're going to have a warframe named Ash we need more tomato can blood spray Evil Dead style.

 

 

 

 

Much as I love my gram and my glaive, give me this ability and I will backstab the S#&$ out of this game. It'll be like corporate law, divorce court and prison showers all rolled into one.

Edited May 20, 2013 by purafyre

[Davoodoo]

Because no one is $&*&*#(%& enough to attack someone with steel armor using rapier. Rapiers were effective against targets with leather/ no armor. Rapiers were effective because heavy armor couldn't save you from primitive shooting weapons.

 

No one weared heavy steel armor in time when rapier was invented - it was useless. So then cuirass was invented to protect from pistols (not rifles). But with creating new weapons cuirasses became useless too. Nothing could save you from bullets - no need in armor. This where rapiers became popular because it could pierce the whole human body with ease.

 

But not heavy armored Grineer. Or Corpus robots.

It all depends on materials used. Doubt that cheap mass produced grineer armor could stand a chance against mastercrafted using best materials rapier in tenno hands.

Not to mention that it doesnt need to be metal blade. We already have ether(not sure if theyre metal or whatever) and energy weapons

Edited May 20, 2013 by Davoodoo

[_Chaser]

Rapiers and daggers.

 

Dark souls/demon souls made them quite viable/fun with the addition of parry counters and mid combat backstabs. I feel warframe would be exceptionally fun for the melee oriented if you were able to add mid combat backstabs and parries that change up into auto crit animated counters. It would make supreme use of the mobility aspect of the game and give people a reason to use that block button more often.

 

Block button at just the right timing? opponent's melee attack is deflected/parried. Allowing for a window of opportunity where the immediate press of melee attack button triggers an animated counter or opportunity to sidle up behind them and backstab depending on the weapon in hand. Rapier into vital organ counter, dagger into stance shift, backstab.

 

On top of all that, stamina management suddenly becomes an issue again as too much use of that block button at the wrong time drains your stamina fast. And then you'd have to decide if thats the thing you want to do in the middle of an intense firefight.

 

Teleporting then becomes super fun.

Teammates become exceptional people to have around and draw attention away from you so you can sidle up behind a grineer thats firing at them and then stab him in the ganj.

 

Loki's disarm suddenly becomes this thing you HAVE to equip just to have more opportunities to just chain counter an entire room of melee attackers.

 

Instead of whacking away with a baseball bat berserk style or firing away with a friggin big gun, you can then take this play style where you become a whirling dervish of graceful death making every stab count and looking supremely cool doing it.

 

Oh and more blood spray please. If we're going to have a warframe named Ash we need more tomato can blood spray Evil Dead style.

 

 

 

 

Much as I love my gram and my glaive, give me this ability and I will backstab the S#&$ out of this game. It'll be like corporate law, divorce court and prison showers all rolled into one.

greetings dark souls fellow, but bs fishing is for scruubs!

[iPrevenge]

Just my 2 cents.  This idea is dumb.  No justification required.

[ValhaHazred]

(playground mode activated)

Nuh uh. Your everything is dumb.

But seriously you do need justification. Why are rapier style weapons any dumber than katana style ones? Or hammers, axes, and whatever Gram is supposed to be?

More choice is always good.

[LapuLapo]

Yeah. If you actually know a damn thing about shinobi or ronin or what-have-you, you'd realize that there are very good reasons that they used the weapons they did. 
(Protip: Ninjas didn't wear black suits, they dressed like normal people. That's how stealth works.)

You know why medieval knights-in-shining armor were outfitted as they were?
Crusades and the feudal system, plus the sheer size of the nations involved.



I'm all about the finesse fighters. 
Have you never scored a stealth kill in this game? It always looks awkward and uncomfortable for your tenno.

I honestly think a musketeer-flavor would be perfect (hell, Volt already looks like he's wearing the right hat!) 

Also...uhh...musketeer means they wielded MUSKETS.

Kinda like Snipetrons.

 

 

 

Besides, we need more visual variety. I can hardly tell Fang from Dual Skana or Skana from Cronus.

Edited May 21, 2013 by LapuLapo

[ValhaHazred]

Muskets you say?

[machinatedelta]

It's a ninja game, not The Three Musketeers

ALL FOR ONE AND ONE FOR ALL!!!

[Davoodoo]

Muskets you say?

Made my day.

[TwiceDead]

Generally Rapiers can't even pierce bone... How are they supposed to pierce the armor or rather the solid metal of almost every enemy in the game. I doubt the infected would even care for the little syringe tip that got stuck inside their body because the blade broke due to the blade being so thin. It just wouldn't work unless it was something along the lines of System Shock's Laser Rapiers. 

[_Chaser]

Generally Rapiers can't even pierce bone... How are they supposed to pierce the armor or rather the solid metal of almost every enemy in the game. I doubt the infected would even care for the little syringe tip that got stuck inside their body because the blade broke due to the blade being so thin. It just wouldn't work unless it was something along the lines of System Shock's Laser Rapiers. 

congrats! inattention achievement unlocked!

 

quoting myself again

i do appreciate your comment but you should probably read the OP carefull.

 

 

here goes wiki

 

As armour improved, so did the methods of attacking the armour. It was quickly realized that cutting weapons were losing their effectiveness, so crushing weapons such as maces and axes were utilized. But thrusting weapons that could split the rings of mail, or find the joints and crevices of plate armour, were also employed. Long tapered swords could also be used as a lance once the lance was splintered. Thus was the estoc developed. The French word estoc translates to thrust Tuck is the abbreviated English version of the word. Many consider the estoc a forerunner of the rapier, but more likely it is a merging of the espada ropera, a civilian sword, with the effective, and lighter estoc, that produced the rapier. But the estoc was an effective weapon. The long, straight blade was very rigid and could be thrust with one hand, or the second hand could be used to deliver an even more powerful thrust.