Glaive (Thrown Weapon) Update Idea

[Korvun]

My single favorite weapon has been, and always will be, the Glaive.  I'm not alone in this.  Many people, despite it's less than ideal damage, go into every possible mission using it.  It's damage is low, no matter how you build it, the channel explosion is unwieldy in most situations and it doesn't 'copter' half as well as most other 'copter' weapons.  So why do we use it? Because it's sexy!  Every stance and nearly every combo is fluid, entertaining and just so damn 'Ninjaesque' with the flips and spins and jumps.

 

Which brings me to my idea.  Obviously it needs a damage buff, that goes without saying (though I said it anyways).  My idea is fairly simple, though I'm not sure how simple it would be to program.  By default, with the Glaive equipped, when you hold E (melee) there is a brief windup then the throw.  My idea would be to change this.  Extend the windup until you RELEASE the melee button.  During this windup, you can target, yes I mean target, several enemies in front of you by mousing over them.  When you do this, you'll see an actual targeting reticule over the enemies you've chosen, then you release the melee button.  Once released, the Glaive will track down the targeted enemies cutting through anything in it's path along the way, though not through cover without sufficient 'punch through', and return to it's owner.  The number of possible targets and damage to those targets could be increased with a mod (the +/- bounce mods come to mind).  The trade off could be something along the lines of more targets, less damage per target. Fewer targets, more damage.

 

Now, I understand the Halikar does something similar to what I'm suggesting, but it only 'tracks' one enemy and it doesn't do it all that well, often simply focusing the nearest enemy as opposed to the enemy you're focusing or the most dangerous.  And it misses more often than not, wasting the throw.  To me, these changes sound simple (It's quite possible they aren't) and would bring new life to a weapon everyone WANTS to use, but can't because it simply isn't strong enough.

 

Thanks for reading!  Constructive responses welcome!

 

Edit: Where is that puncture Glaive we were teased with?

Edited April 25, 2015 by Korvun

[Mcl_Blue]

So it's like the Boomerang from Zelda: Wind Waker.

 

I like that, but it might not be the easiest thing to implement.

[Tali]

I always wanted a homing feature for the glaive so yes please.

[RoflsMazoy]

As a fan of the Kestrel, I love this idea. It'd be pretty great to mark out all the strongest enemies and knock them down and only them. But right now I'm just using the Power Throw-Quick Return combo which is also pretty great, but still.

 

If this were implemented, I don't think it would come automatically with the Glaive, it'd probably be a mod or another glaive entirely.

[Your_Very_Best_Friend]

Oh goodness, this needs to be a thing. Please make this a thing. DE. Please. Now.

[JustOR1G1N]

I would like to see at least something like those charged throwing attack from good old Dark Sector

[CY13ERPUNK]

+1 OP

 

but IMHO the glaives are already in a pretty decent place dmg-wise, but if i was to tweak them i would not give them base stat buffs, i would instead modify the existing glaive-type-only melee mods, such as power throw/quick return/rebound/whirlwind/etc and give those mods some 2ndary effects like faster atk spd, or faster charge time or extra base dmg ; since the biggest downside to using a glaive-type melee is that you typically sacrifice so much dmg potential to use 2-4 QoL/functionality/utility mods

 

but i do rly like the hold/tgt/lockon ideas, it does a similar function to the aftertouch from DS without requiring the game to go into slowmo (and sounds like it would work a lot better than the awful semi-homing failure that the halikar has)

[Knightmare047]

I've been liking my Glaive Prime ever since I got the Radiant Finish augment. Because the augment seems to guarantee that enemies are unaware of Excalibur during the blind. Hence, the 4x stealth multiplier is guaranteed and every one of my throws with the Glaive Prime one-shots everything. I've already tested this, with and without the augment. Even the enemies stop following/shooting me when blinded. Heck, because of Radiant Finish, I don't even need to use the Kinetic Trap to help me synthesize those enemies because it makes them fully unaware of me and stop running.

[PerishedFraud]

One addition: You can select multiple targets before throwing, and the glaive will hit them all and then return straight to you. (selecting less than bounce amount will cause it to bounce randomly like it does now after killing targets)

 

Edited April 25, 2015 by BeeOverlord

[Drufo]

Totally agree!

[Spot.]

I love my glaive prime so I would very much welcome this idea!

[Korvun]

+1 OP

 

but IMHO the glaives are already in a pretty decent place dmg-wise, but if i was to tweak them i would not give them base stat buffs, i would instead modify the existing glaive-type-only melee mods, such as power throw/quick return/rebound/whirlwind/etc and give those mods some 2ndary effects like faster atk spd, or faster charge time or extra base dmg ; since the biggest downside to using a glaive-type melee is that you typically sacrifice so much dmg potential to use 2-4 QoL/functionality/utility mods

 

but i do rly like the hold/tgt/lockon ideas, it does a similar function to the aftertouch from DS without requiring the game to go into slowmo (and sounds like it would work a lot better than the awful semi-homing failure that the halikar has)

 

That really is a good point.  You do have to sacrifice a lot of damage for the Glaive specific mods.  That's why I suggested a damage boost.  If they only add more mods without addressing the damage (from mods or base damage) then I don't think it will last into the "end game".  Currently, it doesn't fair very well in the 'trials' against the high level Grineer (I suspect that's more because of the innate slash damage where puncture is more appropriate, but if you're running 4 corrosives, then it shouldn't be an issue).

 

Edit: I also don't want this suggested change to be a mod, I should have specified that.  I would like for it to be base functionality on the Glaive and other Thrown Weapons.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Korvun

[DSpite]

Sorry, no. For me that would ruin the weapon. I find it hard to think you people actually use the Glaive and would consider such a concept to be "an upgrade".

 

First off, it's one of the few weapons that has a very balanced damage potential. Melee combo multipliers and channeling damage mods are what should be used if you want to go slicing units in the 40-50 level range. Anything higher is basically "Endless" and units there don't scale "balanced" anyway, so asking the Glaive to go there breaks it.

 

I took on a Level 45 Vor in the Void with a Glaive because I ran out of ammo, and still killed it - slowly - so it's not in a bad place. I had to do a LOT of dancing around to do it, but he's normally a unit you take on with 10K DPS guns.

 

When modded the channeled explosion can easily kill units in the 30-40, and now can stealth kill (yellow crits) unaware enemies at ANY time. A Loki can basically take out groups every time he enters a room, and with an Excal I often bounce it around corridors and yellow crit everything there in the 50K+ damage range. I used it on False Profits and was dealing fine with level 45-55 units.

 

What the Glaive really need is for it to be less kludgy.

 

First off, give it slight innate penetration so it stops bouncing off the thinnest of objects like Kubrow ear tips and 1 inch railings - even an iinate 0.1 might actually help with that - or maybe even ignore friendly units altogether, because having an extra 3 team members with Sentinels and Kubrows mean always having 6 extra moving objects CONSTANTLY weaving in an out of throwing lines (at least with a Penta you can arc it over), because when you add the Mod Power Throw, to actually get punch-through, you also create too many suicide situations, as it often considers the "last-bounce" to be your Frame, and explodes in your hands.

 

Secondly, the Glaive Mods should get a fresh look, if anything. Adding bounces but not increasing distance does not help greatly. Removing bounces only makes sense with Power Throw, so you need two Mods to get one effect. Extra velocity is only useful on the normal Glaive to bring it on par as the Prime, and when you stick it on the Prime it flies so fast that correctly judging channel-explosion distances in a big firefight is either impossible or suicide, as it's just a faint blur amongst a sea of color.

 

The explosion effect should be tweaked. It should do HIGHER damage at the center point - a lot higher - so direct to the face explosions can be used on heavier units, with LOWER damage to the edge of the radius, non-linear, so there is spike damage at the center, maybe even just 1 meter, and more or less the same as now in the middle area, with reduced damage in the last couple of meters. This will still obliterate lower level units, but when facing levels 30-50, still be able to "focus" a heavy unit while still delivering softening up damage in a radius.

 

Reasoning is that when facing even a level 30 Bombard at range, it requires more then 3-4 throws even with direct hits, and that is modded for pure damage, and they can fire those VERY large radius explosion missiles far faster then you can throw and retrieve a Glaive. If I can actually time a Glaive explosion to within 1 meter of their faces, I should be awarded for the accuracy, while now, it's just dodge-dodge-dodge like crazy while exploding it all over the place in the general area a bunch of times. It's should not just be a pocket-Penta, it should reward accurate usage.

 

Another thing is that having it tied to the melee key means that the windup can break under Volt's Speed or Valkyr's Warcry, etc etc, making it impossible to use properly in missions when people are spamming "speed" abilities. It technically needs a better launch method.

 

A mention on bouncing: Excalibur is apparently getting a new Slash Dash that can bounce around enemy to enemy. That kind of effect is what the Glaive should do when thrown in tight groups. Weapons that arc lightning target to target already have that code, maybe that should be in effect here, then MAYBE the extra bounce Mod would make sense.

 

There's more, this is just what I consider more important.

Edited April 26, 2015 by DSpite

[Korvun]

<snip>

 

I like a lot of what you said, but I don't think adding a feature to it would break it at all.  You could still just throw it without locking on to any enemies as you can now, but the added effect of being able to lock on to particularly troubling enemies would only enhance the effectiveness of what you already consider to be an effective tool.

 

The 40-50 range is actually quite low.  Enemies in the first of several trials start in the 80s, making the Glaive almost completely ineffective, even if you use the explosion.  Anyways, I digress.  I don't wish to argue the validity of your position regarding it's damage output.  I only want to see the targeting functionality added.  And again, even taking everything you said into consideration, it would only enhance the weapon and not detract from it in any way.

[DSpite]

I like a lot of what you said, but I don't think adding a feature to it would break it at all.  You could still just throw it without locking on to any enemies as you can now, but the added effect of being able to lock on to particularly troubling enemies would only enhance the effectiveness of what you already consider to be an effective tool.

 

The 40-50 range is actually quite low.  Enemies in the first of several trials start in the 80s, making the Glaive almost completely ineffective, even if you use the explosion.  Anyways, I digress.  I don't wish to argue the validity of your position regarding it's damage output.  I only want to see the targeting functionality added.  And again, even taking everything you said into consideration, it would only enhance the weapon and not detract from it in any way.

 

It's not a "feature" it's a total new complicated and intricate mechanic and for for what? Your targets will not be alive long enough to do complex RTS game kind of selection, or you will be riddled full of bullets while attempting it.

 

I don't care that it does not kill level 80 units, because if it did, it would become the new Infinite Ammunition Penta choice of the future.

 

I still find it hard to believe you actually use it, if you think you can actually select MULTIPLE units in a fight. This is not a turn based game, by the time you "select" anything they will have run 30+ meters and are shooting you in the face.

 

It's not a feature unless it worked automatically. The OP idea is scripted suicide.

 

I've been in corridors where popping out for more then a fraction of a second longer then just aiming and releasing then ducking to cover would drop my shields, yet here you are, asking to stop in place for multiple seconds, aiming to select multiple targets that are MOVING and SHOOTING at you AND are high level.

 

Seriously?

Edited April 26, 2015 by DSpite

[Korvun]

<snip>

 

You seem unreasonably agitated by what I've said.  As I said several times, you already have to hold down the melee button to throw the Glaive, why do you honestly think it would make it "scripted suicide" to mouse over an enemy while holding the button and just RELEASING the button?  Mousing over 1, 2 or 3 targets in quick succession isn't overly complicated or time consuming.  It's completely automatic.  What I've suggested has actually been very successfully implemented in several games over the years.  You keep mentioning the Penta and infinite ammo, but I'm not sure why.  This is a melee weapon.  If I walk into a Trial, I should be able to use ANY weapon in my loadout to kill an enemy.  I should not be limited to only a few specific melee weapons because they're good at 'coptering' or simply put the Glaive damage in the dirt. 

 

Stop comparing melee weapons to primary weapons.  If you're in a corridor and you think to use your melee weapon (which btw, I said SEVERAL TIMES that it can still just be thrown as you normally would) to combat enemies that are one shotting you, then you're doing it wrong.  Coming up with a completely unrealistic example and over complicating my suggestion in a way to suit your narrative is just plain childish.

 

If you're happy with the Glaive the way it is, then you could still simply use the way it already is.  OR you could choose to keep your finger down on that melee button and target a couple enemies.  That's the beauty of this suggestion.  It would function EXACTLY THE SAME as it does now with an ADDED benefit if you CHOOSE to hold down the melee button a second or two longer.  Now, I can't simply make this any more clear to you.  If you still wish to respond having ignored everything I've said, then you'll simply be ignored.  At some point you misunderstood what my suggestions seeks to change and have decided to take a combative stance against it.  That's fine, not everyone is going to like it.  But I've literally answered every one of your concerns.  Good day, Sir.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Korvun