The 'tenno Are Energy' Theory Is Busted

[AM-Bunny]

But, as Grizzly pointed out, that opens up the issue that poses the issue of how they could have been such an effective weapon against the Sentients. If something the Corrupted wouldn't have worked because of the technology in them, what changed in that technology to make the Tenno different? And then why wasn't that same thing applied to a bunch of regular soldiers - rather than, as the Mag Prime Codex says, using just regular zero-tech soldiers that don't seem to have any pretense towards being that kind of perfect logical mind.

 

Also kinda weirds out Simaris' "I am above you" attitude if we're a Cephalon like him. He is heavily interested in Ordis, but treats the Tenno like an errand boy.

 

It's a point, I'll grant that, but it's just not clicking in my mind.

 

We have no idea how the Sentients were able to take control of the technology. Perhaps if the AI was as advanced as Ordis, it's too advanced for them. Perhaps they are literally digital copies of human brains, which is why they are so life-like. It's just too difficult to say anything here, because we don't know how the Sentients turned technology against their users. Was it just like an EMP? Who knows.

 

I'm sure the process is no simple task. Exposing a human to the void until it has magic powers, then making a suit tailor made to hone those skills. Not hard to imagine why they didn't "simply make more".

 

Simaris' attitude may be in reference to our duties. Even if we were both Cephalon, Tenno are basically warriors, soldiers. Simaris seems to take great pride in the importance of his work, and perhaps he doesn't view the Tenno's duties as worthy of admiration.

[arch111]

Just like to say that warframes have both neurodes and infested flesh be part of their systems. Seems very unneeded if a computer do all the control.

To me : a neural net is for a human, to bond with the warframe armor.

Or are you saying it is an ORGANIC computer?

[Morec0]

We have no idea how the Sentients were able to take control of the technology. Perhaps if the AI was as advanced as Ordis, it's too advanced for them. Perhaps they are literally digital copies of human brains, which is why they are so life-like. It's just too difficult to say anything here, because we don't know how the Sentients turned technology against their users. Was it just like an EMP? Who knows.

 

I'm sure the process is no simple task. Exposing a human to the void until it has magic powers, then making a suit tailor made to hone those skills. Not hard to imagine why they didn't "simply make more".

 

Simaris' attitude may be in reference to our duties. Even if we were both Cephalon, Tenno are basically warriors, soldiers. Simaris seems to take great pride in the importance of his work, and perhaps he doesn't view the Tenno's duties as worthy of admiration.

 

But then they're able to start getting Ordis to glitch out? Requiring Simaris to shield them? But then if we're as strong as Simaris... But your talk of duties might answer that...

 

But I'm not talking about the human body, I'm talking about "if this system was able to avoid control by the Sentients, why not do that to their regular soldiers? To the Corrupted? Rather than leaving them out of the war?" If the key to this victory was that they couldn't "turn these biological bodies against them", why not just make the corrupted that kind of biotech?

[AM-Bunny]

But then they're able to start getting Ordis to glitch out? Requiring Simaris to shield them? But then if we're as strong as Simaris... But your talk of duties might answer that...

 

But I'm not talking about the human body, I'm talking about "if this system was able to avoid control by the Sentients, why not do that to their regular soldiers? To the Corrupted? Rather than leaving them out of the war?" If the key to this victory was that they couldn't "turn these biological bodies against them", why not just make the corrupted that kind of biotech?

 

Perhaps the Corrupted are immune to Sentient control. But their programming is so simple that they are not very effective soldiers. The reason why they don't turn the regular soldiers into Corrupted is probably because regular soldiers are more useful. Seeking to create a similar warrior to Corrupted with a higher functioning mind seems like the next logical step, and pop, Tenno.

[Morec0]

Perhaps the Corrupted are immune to Sentient control. But their programming is so simple that they are not very effective soldiers. The reason why they don't turn the regular soldiers into Corrupted is probably because regular soldiers are more useful. Seeking to create a similar warrior to Corrupted with a higher functioning mind seems like the next logical step, and pop, Tenno.

 

I dunno, something about the personal guard of the Orokin high-ups having simple programming doesn't mesh well in my mind...

 

I can't think of anything to totally dismiss what you're saying, but I still don't see the evidence that it happened in the first place. There's no mention of it, and the Excalibur codex saying "we took the twisted few... built a frame around them... these Tenno became our saviors" without mention of any third party in this union of "twisted few" and "frame" (that being the Cephalons in control)... it doesn't seem likely.

 

Best we can do is wait for future evidence. Hopefully Ash Prime release will give us a Codex for SOMEONE.

[AM-Bunny]

Best we can do is wait for future evidence. Hopefully Ash Prime release will give us a Codex for SOMEONE.

 

Yah, it sure is fun speculating though isn't it XD get out there and scan those Crewmen!

[Morec0]

Yah, it sure is fun speculating though isn't it XD get out there and scan those Crewmen!

 

I'm halfway done with it, may do something else about it soon. Not like we'll get information in regards to that from them, though; Synthesis is about the lore of enemies, no ourselves.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

Wait, if Tenno are Cephs, wouldn't New Loka hate all of us? She/they want a pure Earth and humanity, something something free from Orokin tech or some shizz like that, Cephs are Orokin. Tenno were created by them, but the only logical reason for an alliance would be human Tenno...

[Morec0]

Wait, if Tenno are Cephs, wouldn't New Loka hate all of us? She/they want a pure Earth and humanity, something something free from Orokin tech or some shizz like that, Cephs are Orokin. Tenno were created by them, but the only logical reason for an alliance would be human Tenno...

 

If we're twisted by the Void, wouldn't new Loka hate us?

 

Why New Loka works with the Tenno in the first place is unclear, since I doubt we're by any stretch "pure humanity" though humans we be/were - but that is a good point. I mean, their biggest enemy IS a Cephalon.

[AM-Bunny]

Wait, if Tenno are Cephs, wouldn't New Loka hate all of us? She/they want a pure Earth and humanity, something something free from Orokin tech or some shizz like that, Cephs are Orokin. Tenno were created by them, but the only logical reason for an alliance would be human Tenno...

 

Tenno would probably possess the self-awareness to decide for themselves if New Loka is a cause they wish to support. If they want to offer it, I doubt they'd refuse the help, even if the Tenno don't clearly have a place in their vision. 

 

The fact that New Loka-chan declares that you are "pure" or "impure" based only on standing with them implies that she's referring to purity of deeds or purity of heart, rather than some literal reference to our genetic makeup.

 

Besides, I said Warframes are human. Maybe they wish to save the host bodies that Tenno have enslaved.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

If we're twisted by the Void, wouldn't new Loka hate us?

 

Why New Loka works with the Tenno in the first place is unclear, since I doubt we're by any stretch "pure humanity" though humans we be/were - but that is a good point. I mean, their biggest enemy IS a Cephalon.

It could be, because we killed the Orokin, the very thing that created us, and it seems like NL hates the Orokin more than anything, should we be twisted, however you may interpret that, they make an exception to work with us. Just one of many, many possibilities. 

[(PSN)MakoPriest]

dey is da cyborgs mang. No but seriously makes more sense then the energy theory and makes more sense then them being completely flesh. How could someone fit into limbo's frame? Cyborgs man cyborgs ....(puts on tinfoil hat) 

[Morec0]

Tenno would probably possess the self-awareness to decide for themselves if New Loka is a cause they wish to support. If they want to offer it, I doubt they'd refuse the help, even if the Tenno don't clearly have a place in their vision. 

 

The fact that New Loka-chan declares that you are "pure" or "impure" based only on standing with them implies that she's referring to purity of deeds or purity of heart, rather than some literal reference to our genetic makeup.

 

Besides, I said Warframes are human. Maybe they wish to save the host bodies that Tenno have enslaved.

 

But then why is there some issue with why on earth they hate Steel Meridian, then, whose goal is to stand up for the broken colonies and fight for them with their lives. Isn't that a rather pure deeds?

 

I too think there's some matter of purity of deeds and nature of humanity in it, but in the end their hatred for things like A.I. (Suda) and degraded cloning of  Grineer or former-Grineer (SM) is a bit higher up. Tenno may be the exception because they're Tenno, but I think an exception from a PoV like that could only stretch so far.

 

It could be, because we killed the Orokin, the very thing that created us, and it seems like NL hates the Orokin more than anything, should we be twisted, however you may interpret that, they make an exception to work with us. Just one of many, many possibilities. 

 

Hates the Orokin? What makes you say that? Personally I think it's the opposite - given the use of Orokin aesthetics in their room - and that they idolize the Orokin to some regard as being of pure/perfect humanity. The Lorist in the C. Ancient synthesis described those she helped (presumably Orokin civilians, or at least non-Lorists) as "silken" of skin. Maybe that's just based on her own altered appearance in comparison, but it seems to imply some kind of pampered perfection.

[AM-Bunny]

But then why is there some issue with why on earth they hate Steel Meridian, then, whose goal is to stand up for the broken colonies and fight for them with their lives. Isn't that a rather pure deeds?

 

If I had to venture a guess, I would say that Steel Meridian is intent on salvaging a broken world. New Loka is similar to Red Veil in that they wish to create a new one. New Loka would probably be more content to just let everything die so that a new sapling can grow in its place, where Steel Meridian would never abide that.

 

That being said, many of the Syndicate relationships are unclear, and rightly so considering we're basing our entire viewpoint of them on one measly paragraph in the Syndicate UI,

[unknow99]

Woah! Still debating over that lore?!... (o.O)

 

Oh my...

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

Hates the Orokin? What makes you say that? Personally I think it's the opposite - given the use of Orokin aesthetics in their room - and that they idolize the Orokin to some regard as being of pure/perfect humanity. The Lorist in the C. Ancient synthesis described those she helped (presumably Orokin civilians, or at least non-Lorists) as "silken" of skin. Maybe that's just based on her own altered appearance in comparison, but it seems to imply some kind of pampered perfection.

"Only through the restoration of a pure humanity and the repopulation of Earth can the conflict end. The New Loka are worshipers of the human form and Earth, before its corruption."

 

While it could be argued the Grineer 'corrupted' Earth, my headcanon is that it refers to the Orokin (Hek is always b*tching about "These Orokin trees!") and the Orokin, they were pretty messed up, corrupt, even. I could be wrong, but that's just the way I understood it.

 

I have to wait until Microsoft approves the next update before I can read the C. Ancient entry.

[SilentMobius]

I have to wait until Microsoft approves the next update before I can read the C. Ancient entry.

 

It's all written up here: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Synthesis

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

It's all written up here: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Synthesis

I prefer reading it in the Sanctuary :P

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

I just had a thought: What if the "twisted few" in Excal's codex weren't physically twisted, but rather, mentally? Like the Void made them crazy? Building a frame around them doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but it's something to think about.

 

Missed the t in thought :P

Edited June 28, 2015 by (XB1)A Frikn Grizzly

[EmptyDevil]

I just had a thought: What if the "twisted few" in Excal's codex weren't physically twisted, but rather, mentally? Like the Void made them crazy? Building a frame around them doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but it's something to think about.

 

Missed the t in thought :P

 

I always thought of it like that or that "twisted" to the Orokin didn't really mean physically deformed to monster-like proportions. Any abnormality that isn't present in a normal Orokin person might be called "twisted".

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

I always thought of it like that or that "twisted" to the Orokin didn't really mean physically deformed to monster-like proportions. Any abnormality that isn't present in a normal Orokin person might be called "twisted".

Also could be why the "ones from Zariman" are kept on ice in RPC, because they couldn't be awake too long, maybe.

[(PSN)batman200087]

I just had a thought: What if the "twisted few" in Excal's codex weren't physically twisted, but rather, mentally? Like the Void made them crazy? Building a frame around them doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but it's something to think about.

Missed the t in thought :P

My thoughts exactly. I think that the void transformation made the Tenno 'twisted' in the mind, than in the body. I like this.

Batman approves.

Edited June 28, 2015 by (PS4)batman200087

[Morec0]

My thoughts exactly. I think that the void transformation made the Tenno 'twisted' in the mind, than in the body. I like this.

Batman approves.

 

I don't think this new theory, it seems to be discarding the fact that we know the Warframes are a "conduit for their affliction" (Excal Codex), and that as they are made to to "focus our divine light" (Vor) leading to the conclusion there is something physically different - presumably this "energy" that we "are" which Vor spoke of in the tutorial.

[SilentMobius]

I don't think this new theory, it seems to be discarding the fact that we know the Warframes are a "conduit for their affliction" (Excal Codex), and that as they are made to to "focus our divine light" (Vor) leading to the conclusion there is something physically different - presumably this "energy" that we "are" which Vor spoke of in the tutorial.

 

I think that thew Excalibur codex is propaganda. By describing the effects of the void in a vague negative light and presenting the tainting of those-who-became-Tenno as an accident you isolate the Tenno and direct the masses away from the secret that the Orokin have been keeping, that they have been harvesting void energies to extend their lifespan.

 

This is all based on the notion of the "Oro" being somehow connected to void energies. We know that The Tenno have a Oro, and that some of our enemies do (assumed to be the Sentients) and that the existence of the Oro "is the binding force for an enemy who like the Tenno can survive death" and I don't think it's much of a stretch to assume the the Orokin (the clue is in the name) also used/possessed/created an Oro for themselves, even if it wasn't natural... and that they considered the possession of the Oro a defining line of where you were Orokin or not.

[Morec0]

I think that thew Excalibur codex is propaganda. By describing the effects of the void in a vague negative light and presenting the tainting of those-who-became-Tenno as an accident you isolate the Tenno and direct the masses away from the secret that the Orokin have been keeping, that they have been harvesting void energies to extend their lifespan.

 

This is all based on the notion of the "Oro" being somehow connected to void energies. We know that The Tenno have a Oro, and that some of our enemies do (assumed to be the Sentients) and that the existence of the Oro "is the binding force for an enemy who like the Tenno can survive death" and I don't think it's much of a stretch to assume the the Orokin (the clue is in the name) also used/possessed/created an Oro for themselves, even if it wasn't natural... and that they considered the possession of the Oro a defining line of where you were Orokin or not.

 

I'm with you 100% on that second paragraph, and I can see the argument made for the first. But, propaganda or not, the point I was trying to make is that based on what we've been given thus far there IS something tangible and physical - some kind of energy - about the Tenno that can be attributed to this sense of "affliction" - it's NOT just some kind of metal state.

 

I'm also attempting to consider how this Oro may fit in with New Loka Lady's ability to float. Haven't gotten far. I'm also thinking she might be a Lorist, but I don't have anything yet.