[Warframe Concept] Theraph - Arachnid-Summoner Warframe

[Deidaku]

THis should get more attention

 

wow 

+1

[Krion112]

Finally finished a design for the Mutilator:

 

Mutilator Sketch

 

Let me know I should use this as the basis for the final, or if I should use a different design.

 

 

-snip-

Greatly appreciated!

Edited October 1, 2015 by Krion112

[Rhekemi]

Overall, I like it, but it's main front pincers (and some little details) make me think crabs (even though both spiders and crustaceans are arthropods).

 

So, if I get past thinking 'crab' I would be fine with it.

[Krion112]

-snip-

Technically, the Mutilator is supposed to be based off of scorpions, not spiders. But, while being somewhat crab-like, it is somewhat necessary. The claws have to be big and bulky to offer cover for Theraph and any other allies that take cover behind it. As well, its profile has to be reasonably small in order to prevent obstructing other Tenno, as people get very upset over trying to fire at enemies through allied units, thus resulting in not having a scorpion's signature tail.

 

Also, you've gotta take into account, this isn't final. There's a lot of parts and bits I skipped drawing just because this is a sketch, to see everything in position, rather than to elaborate on every little detail. That's more what I'm asking; is the positioning of all the limbs, and the general body shape satisfactory?

 

Thanks for the comment, as usual!

[Rhekemi]

Ah, I totally forgot you said (earlier) that it would be based off of scorpions. In that case, it's fine, yes.

 

As for proportions and build, it looks good to me.

[Krion112]

-snip-

Excellent, and as long as there's not an objections, I'll continue forward using this as the basis for the final rendition of the Mutilator.

 

Been recently looking closer into what makes Tenno and Orokin design. And I think with that knowledge I'll be able to make the Mutilator fit very snug with the Tenno aesthetic, as well as allowing me to go back and remake the Prowler.

[Krion112]

Unfortunately, the Mutilator's design is taking longer than expected. I haven't had a whole lot of time to work on it, and it's a design that necessitates many degrees of care. It may be another week before I can finish it.

 

In the mean time, I'm gonna bump the thread up; maybe someone somewhere has some input. I really need to figure out how his quest will progress, his codex lore, and finally I need to finalize some syndicate augments, so any help on those fronts would be appreciated.

 

Also, nobody's really argued his stats, which is surprising. Do they look good, or has it not been looked at?

[Rhekemi]

Stats: They seem balanced. In all honesty, unless stats A) are under the threshold for viability for the given 'frame's role, or B) overpowered given its role and other stats (like energy pool, etc), no one every really cares what numbers we put in (so long as they're based on how the game currently works/actual in-game math).

 

Augments: The only one that jumped out at me is an augment to reduce or eliminate the energy cost for repairing minions. Main ability would still cost 25, but the 50 for repairs would be reduced or eliminated.

 

Thrift - Weave Augment: Theraph repairs minions for 50% less energy. (or) Energy cost for repairing minions is eliminated.

 

Orb could use an augment, but I want to think about one that would give his utilities something they don't already have, would improve them, or benefit Theraph/his team.

[Krion112]

-snip-

So, something like:

 

Thrift Bind - Weave Augment

Reduces the casting cost to repair Minions by <x%>, also making the minion momentarily invulnerable to damage.

 

Rank 1 - Cost reduced by 10%

Rank 2 - Cost reduced by 25%

Rank 3 - Cost reduced by 35%

Rank 4 - Cost reduced by 50%

[Rhekemi]

Exactly. With Streamline on, it will reduce it to close to nothing. Still want to come up with more augments (especially for Orb), but I've been fleshing out a new concept.

[Krion112]

Exactly. With Streamline on, it will reduce it to close to nothing. Still want to come up with more augments (especially for Orb), but I've been fleshing out a new concept.

Probably should've responded to this sooner, but I guess now is better than never...

 

It's no problem, after all Theraph is my concept, but if you do end up having any ideas, I do want to hear them. They may inspire my own design. But, in the meantime, good luck on your next concept. If it's out yet, feel free to direct me to it, as I would like to read it when I get the time.

[Rhekemi]

No worries. I believe in reciprocation. You've done a great deal to help me with Neuron, so I wouldn't feel right if I didn't help where I could--it isn't an undue burden, or an attempt to hijack your concept (which I know you did not imply). I'm just breaking down where I'm coming from.

 

I've tried to mention in my profile (that reciprocation, mutual feedback, is appreciated), but most members that directly ask me for help do not seem to catch on. Even when I tell them to feel free to simply comment.

 

Part of improvement and critique is finding people who give back, not only take. Not everyone will, but some do.

[Krion112]

-snip-

I normally don't reciprocate because I worry either about offending a concept's creator, as I'm very bad at delivering my criticism or input without being very blunt about it, or that I feel like my feedback would just be unwanted (or at least, not asked for) in the first place. Additionally, I often simply don't have the time or words to accurately assess something.

 

On that note, I do intend to give you some feedback on Ushtar once I have created a method to approach it and make my recommendation, however it may be some time.

 

 

Just speaking back on augment mods, I think I've come up with a good one for Orb:

 

Strung Veil - Orb Augment

Allies standing on the Orb will be encased in void interference, masking them from enemy sight. If they attack or if they leave the Orb, this veil will drop, and they will be made visible again.

 

Rank 1 - Allies standing on the Orb without attacking for 8 seconds will be cloaked

Rank 2 - Allies standing on the Orb without attacking for 6 seconds will be cloaked

Rank 3 - Allies standing on the Orb without attacking for 4 seconds will be cloaked

Rank 4 - Allies standing on the Orb without attacking for 2 seconds will be cloaked

[Rhekemi]

Hey, sorry for late reply.

 

Orb Augment: I like Strung Veil. Stealth support abilities are good ideas, and we need more of them. 

 

Not to get off topic, but as someone who can also be very blunt, I want to just offer some very minor, but essential (imo) advice regarding the issues you raised. It will also force me to write something about feedback for the community I've been wanting to write.

 

Ushtar: Thanks. No rush and no worries.

[FitzSimmons]

can you make the warframe and spider scarier?

[Krion112]

-snip-

Excellent, I will add Strung Veil to the OP.

 

In the meantime, if you have any other ideas for augments, let me know. As well, I have to ask, do you think there are augments that would alter his minions, either through replacing them with different minion types or changing their abilities? I had this vision of Mutilators carrying swarms of mites, much like how real life Scorpions carry their young, but I didn't think it was appropriate for the base design. Maybe I could explore that with an augment.

 

Either way, as usual, thanks for the input, and I'll get around to completing Neuron's art and Ushtar's critique as soon as I can.

 

can you make the warframe and spider scarier?

The default design of this Warframe would be what I have drawn so far, however I am designing an alternate skin (like Gersemi Valkyr and Nemesis Nyx) that does make him and his minions more arachnophobia inspiring. I intend to call this re-skin 'Recluse'.

 

This is mostly due to his theme; while he does summon arachnids, he is more musician themed, with the linking element being that spiders are very sensitive to vibration, including sound. However, many have expressed the desire for a more spindly and spidery design, and I intend to meet that by creating an alternate body design that meets that purpose.

 

Sound good?

[Rhekemi]

I also like the new (?) passive. Indefinite wall latch could have interesting uses.

 

Minion altering augments seem like a must-have, but you'd also have to balance it (since it is already a management-heavy 'frame). If I come up with anything, I'll suggest it, yes.

 

Thanks for bumping Neuron's sketch up (I still have to sit down and rework her), and no worries on Ushtar. Both the crit and the design can happen when you have time.

[Krion112]

-snip-

Alright, I'll have to make some minion altering augments in time then. In the mean time, gotta finish some other projects, Neuron's design included.

[Rhekemi]

Sounds good.

 

Now, come on, who will give this great concept one more vote to push it into the Popular category?

[(PSN)oracle-ryuu]

i don't wanna bash the concept, especially since you've obviously put a lot of work into this, but i'm having a hard time picturing this. maybe if he only had one or two units. (i.e the mutilators and the mites.) and his abilities would more or less affect how they behave? or, better yet, i have been helping someone else trying to develop a sorcerer frame, but i think some of the mechanics i implemented their could work here too!

ability 1: 

 SO your first ability is snare,….and you know what, thats actually fine! and the idea that mites are produced from that ability is even better. in fact i think the mites should be a assize thing. any time one of therphs units, or traps are destroyed, mites are released to damage and slow down enemies, sometimes making them panic (because who would't?)

 

ability 2:

second ability summon. now here where it gets hard for me. the whole idea of using substance, (or subsistence may be the word you're looking for ;) ) is unique, but also harder to pull of effectively. maybe try this.

 

theraph has a set max amount of subsistence. when no unite are deployed its at max. for each unit deployed, it starts taking a tole on the subsistence gauge. this way you actually limit how many minions you put out, and each minion type takes a different amount. so your base soldier units would take the least, your cc units would take a medium amount, but your mutilaters, (which i'm assuming are your bruiser), take a LOT 

 

in the end you'd have to decide which unite you want out on the field at a given time. do you want a lot of soldiers (like sixteen)? or four big bruisers/tanks? (also note, that when a unit dies, subsistence is put back into your gauge.)

 

this feels less overpowered and less annoying, (in trying to constantly get subsistence to make more spiders.)

 

now for the actual CAST mechanic. normal cast sends out 4 soldiers, a double cast (combo cast) sends out  3 CC units, and a charge cast (hold the cast button) sends out 2 mutilators. this simplifies summoning a bit and makes transitioning controls to consoles easier as well.

 

also, a good not would be that if you only have enough subsistence to create half an order of soldiers, you can still cast it, but then only two will come out, and if you don't have enough for a Mutilator, its simply won't work.)(also, mites are free!)

 

 

that would take care of your first two abilities, and then the third one could be used to augment their behavior.

 

ability 3:

for instance, targeting an enemy will have your spiders focus attention on that enemy or group of enemies. casting on nothing tell your spiders to linger where you cast it. double casting can either detonate or command your spiders to return to your side. and hold casting can (again) detonate or return them.

 

you could also individually cast these effects on a spider to return that one specifically, detonate that one specifically. or (with a single cast) augment the behaviou of the one unit. (i.e soldiers become suicide bombers)(CC units create a vortex boom to drag enemies in before exploding)(and Mutilators go berserk and die after a set amount of time.)

 

basically the idea would be that the behavioral ability is what we call "context sensitive" so depending on what you're aiming at, the tap, double tap, or charge, will have a completely different effect. (this provides some of the greatest control over how your units work by the way)

 

ability 4:

you ultimate could still be an area of effect slowdown, but instead of summing new units, this will be how you temporarily upgrade your units, any side in the are of affect is upgrades for the duration of the skill. (i.e soldiers are faster and far more damaging, cc units can grab more units and hop around faster too, mutilators triple their armor and health and become juggernauts) (mites begin leeching health and distributing it amongst you and your units in the are of effect.)

 

these are few suggestions i thought of last night trying to reconcile how to bring him into the game.

 

one more thing. i know you have him as a male now, but generally speaking, the FEMALES are the deadly ones. its your war frame, i won't tall you how to design it, (especially since you clearly know how too,) its just my personal opinion.

 

I hope my feedback was positive and constructive, i'm not trying to bash you at all!

keep up the good work.

Edited November 20, 2015 by (PS4)oracle-ryuu

[Krion112]

-snip-

While I do appreciate the effort, I must respectfully disagree. Much of what you recommended, I already thought of, and dismissed for important, game-design reasons. Just so it's clear, here's the reasoning behind the designs of this Warframe:

 

The Substance System

 

First of all, Substance is the right word; subsistence means the lowest ability to maintain yourself, substance is a specific kind of material. The idea is that Theraph, when he harvests substance from enemies, he is actually recycling their materials, biological or metal, and reshaping them using void energy into his creations.

 

But, why does this system exist? It's pretty simple; a summoner warframe done improperly would easily allow players to trivialize game-play. The Substance system means that the player has to be harvesting from enemies on the field to even make use of the summoning ability. They can't crutch themselves with just energy restores or energy siphon, they have to actually fight and succeed in order to use the 'frame.

 

This also helps balance Minions being as powerful as other Warframe Abilities, as limiting the system means they can be balanced to be more powerful. The key concept was that the minions cannot expire due to a time limit and that they are powerful enough, or able to be made powerful enough, to be on par with other Warframe abilities.

 

 

 

The Capacity System

 

Based upon the way you talked about the Weave ability, I believe you may have missed something. There is a capping system in place that would prevent Theraph from summoning too many minions. Each minion has a different capacity demand, and Theraph only has 6-8 capacity supply. Prowlers occupy 1 capacity, Watchers occupy 2 capacity, Collectors occupy 2 capacity, and Mutilators occupy 3 capacity. And you can summon any minion type as long as you have the substance and capacity for it.

 

 

 

Weave's Summoning System

 

Weave can summon multiple unit types because dedicating each power slot to each minion seemed like a waste of powers. A summoner that can just summon is boring, and no other warframe is locked into such a specific ability. Frost, for example, can throw freezing blasts, create a wave of frozen spikes, create a protective globe of ice, and crush enemies beneath an avalanche. If Theraph could only summon units with all of his powers, then he's just creating units that act as an ability middle-man.

What I mean by that is whatever his minions would do, and all he can do is summon those units, then he might as well just be using the powers the units have.

 

This is why I made it so only one ability can summon different types of minions. However, recently I saw that Ivara, the new Archer Warframe that's coming, has an ability that can fire different types of arrows. Its input works that tapping the ability key switches between the different arrow types, and holding it casts the ability. I'll probably change Weave to be similar, however it will still be able to summon multiple types of units.

 

Also, Theraph only summons units individually because he's not a swarm summoner. He's an escalation summoner; each of his minions is a powerful extension of himself, that he can further improve to become a powerful killing machine. His numbers never exceed ten units. Spiders don't come in swarms anyway.

 

 

 

No Command Abilities

 

Theraph doesn't have any minion command abilities because, quite simply, if one ability was dedicated to ordering minions around, that'd feel like a missed opportunity for something better, and it'd feel like a waste of energy.

 

No command abilities, ever. If DE wants to allow players to give orders to their minions, they can implement it some other way, like a command list in the utility menu that could be used for both Theraph's minions and any Specters out in the field. But as an ability for Theraph? Quite simply, no.

 

 

 

Why Theraph was made a Male

 

While it is true, Arachnids, and most Arthropods, have stronger females, it didn't fit with his design. And what I mean by that is Tenno aren't strong; they're fast. Even the tankiest of Warframes is not really a tank. However, Arachnid males, having the travel vast distances just to mate, are very quick, agile, and very strategic. It just made more sense for him to be a male, with this theme.

 

Plus, Theraph's 'personality' is more designed after Hobos and Brown Recluse/Violin Spiders, which have more dominant males.

 

However, the true thematic of Theraph is not really arachnids; his minions are arachnids, but he is only vaguely so. As I have stated, he is sort of like a musician, as spiders, and arachnids in general, are very sensitive to sound and vibration.

 

Finally, there are way too many female spider-themed characters, and many of the female Warframes have the more interesting ability sets, so to be unique, and because it makes sense, he was made male.

 

 

 

The Orb Ability

 

Orb is not an ultimate on its own. It's designed to make it so that a maxed out force, with all minions upgraded and using up the capacity, will be made just short of invulnerable when on the Orb. Otherwise, Orb on its own doesn't do much but support Theraph and his allies.

 

 

 

With these core design concepts in place, I can't say I agree with your suggestions.

[Krion112]

Alright, given that the Archer Warframe has a switch between arrows function for her first ability, I have changed the functionality of Weave to be somewhat easier:

 

When casting Weave, you would now hold down the ability button to charge it. Every 2 seconds of charge will change which minion will be summoned, stopping once it gets to the Mutilator. It will also only progress through the list of summoning units as long as you both have the substance and capacity to support it.

Once the power button is released, it will summon whichever unit is selected, consuming 25 energy and the substance cost, as well as occupying the amount of capacity it needed.

 

Hitting the menu key or the use key will cancel the summoning charge. Weave can still be cast while on the move, and is not interrupted by jumping, bullet jumping, sliding, or most other maneuvers.

 

With this system, the process is at less risk of confusing a player using it, as well it would balance the speeds at which certain minions could be spawned (ie, the more advanced Collector or powerful Mutilator would take more time to spawn than a Prowler).

 

Let me know what you think!

[Rhekemi]

Sounds good, but I'd suggest an on-screen (somewhere unobtrusive) minion icon to match each 2 second phase of cycling.

As for Ivara's flexibility, I was stoked when it was announced due to my similar concept, Ability Toggle System.

[Krion112]

Sounds good, but I'd suggest an on-screen (somewhere unobtrusive) minion icon to match each 2 second phase of cycling.

As for Ivara's flexibility, I was stoked when it was announced due to my similar concept, Ability Toggle System.

Of course, there would be UI feedback for this. Probably something using a system similar to Ivara's arrow toggle. I'll need to draw it at some point, when I get the chance.

 

And it is awesome that Ivara features this single-ability toggle system, as it opens the door for a lot of other concepts, including Warframes like Theraph. Here's my fingers crossed that I may have inspired DE to do something similar!

[Krion112]

Hmm, there seems to be a number of Spider Warframes showing up lately... Intriguing.

 

Just wanted to bump up Theraph for some more eyes. Still working on art, have yet to complete just one final project before I can continue working on Theraph again, but it's around the corner. Otherwise, though, the concept is mostly complete, just need to finish artwork, write out the script for the quest, and to write up a codex entry for the fun of it.

 

If you have any thoughts or suggestions, let me know!