The Daikyu Is Mediocre, It Needs To Be Buffed?! ( Additional Buffing Feedback )

[RealPandemonium]

The problem is... the Daikyu is worse than EVERY bow, not just those two. It has the absolute lowest overall damage potential; lower than the Cernos and the (regular) Paris.

 

In fact, it's almost lower than the MK-1 PARIS. But it barely squeezes in at about the same damage level.

 

So no, it's not just Paris Prime and Dread that make this look like trash. It's every other bow and/or similar option in the game that does that.

Where are you drawing this conclusion from?  Did you literally just compare DPS numbers from warframe builder?

[Ryusuta]

Where are you drawing this conclusion from?  Did you literally just compare DPS numbers from warframe builder?

 

You don't need to. The fact that you can mod any of the others for crit and vastly improve the damage output easily outweighs the base damage of the Daikyu. The only one that can't reach red criticals is the default Paris (and Mk-1, of course), but even that's iffy to compare given the faster fire rate (since a full charge isn't needed).

[RealPandemonium]

You don't need to. The fact that you can mod any of the others for crit and vastly improve the damage output easily outweighs the base damage of the Daikyu. The only one that can't reach red criticals is the default Paris (and Mk-1, of course), but even that's iffy to compare given the faster fire rate (since a full charge isn't needed).

Daikyuu has a higher average damage per shot than any other bow despite lacking red crits.  If you always headshot then Dread and Paris Prime win, though, due to red crits receiving an additional headshot multiplier.  The whole bit about Mk1 Paris being almost as good is complete BS; Daikyuu undeniably out-performs all of the 3 low tier bows in -per shot damage.  Realistic DPS numbers will vary and probably bring Daikyuu down a notch due to the long charge time, but as a heavy artillery weapon Daikyuu is solidly #3, if not better in some cases.  Its huge status chance also causes devastating Slash procs (Buzz Kill really makes this a viable approach.)  

[-CM-Aeon]

%100 viral procs makes this weapon a competitor to high tier missions. I've formaed mine multiple times and it works fine for me.

[Noble_Cactus]

So .... not every weapon needs to see play..... nobody sane will play subpar weapons.

 

Boy, I'd sure feel great as a weapon designer knowing that some of my creations might never see any play at all.

 

It happens in a lot of games, but Warframe's weapons are diverse enough to the point where every weapon should be given some time to shine at -some- point in the game.

[RealPandemonium]

Boy, I'd sure feel great as a weapon designer knowing that some of my creations might never see any play at all.

 

It happens in a lot of games, but Warframe's weapons are diverse enough to the point where every weapon should be given some time to shine at -some- point in the game.

They can all shine at pretty much every point, provided you can fill all mod slots.  It's just that some of them can start one-shotting everything with just a couple of mods.  Nerf the outliers and weapons can truly be chosen based on flavor rather than on theoretical viability.  

[Vance.Stubbs]

%100 viral procs makes this weapon a competitor to high tier missions. I've formaed mine multiple times and it works fine for me.

 

If you get lucky and don't get useless Impact/Puncture procs. I have 4-forma Daikuy and it is terrible. I see no point in IPS proc weapons at all, unless it's G

rakata or Braton P.

[Noble_Cactus]

They can all shine at pretty much every point, provided you can fill all mod slots.  It's just that some of them can start one-shotting everything with just a couple of mods.  Nerf the outliers and weapons can truly be chosen based on flavor rather than on theoretical viability.  

 

That's a good point. However, I feel that if we were to nerf the Paris Prime and Dread in this situation, we would also have to give the Daikyu a bit of a buff to raise the nerfing baseline and thus prevent the other two bows from becoming too underwhelming. Otherwise, we'd just end up in the same situation again.

Edited July 1, 2015 by Noble_Cactus

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

Where are you drawing this conclusion from?  Did you literally just compare DPS numbers from warframe builder?

%100 viral procs makes this weapon a competitor to high tier missions. I've formaed mine multiple times and it works fine for me.

But the fact of the matter is that the Daikyu damage and viability can only get (somewhat) viable through heavy modding, and even then, it's a *status* bow. The only status a bow should be doing is death. Which would be good, if it were slash damage. I'm not saying that puncture is a bad damage type, but in the Daikyu's case, it's a *worse* Paris Prime. It needs to have something that stands alone compared to the other bows instead of a slow draw time and a high base damage that doesn't even compete with the other bows' crit capabilities.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

But the fact of the matter is that the Daikyu damage and viability can only get (somewhat) viable through heavy modding, and even then, it's a *status* bow. The only status a bow should be doing is death. Which would be good, if it were slash damage. I'm not saying that puncture is a bad damage type, but in the Daikyu's case, it's a *worse* Paris Prime. It needs to have something that stands alone compared to the other bows instead of a slow draw time and a high base damage that doesn't even compete with the other bows' crit capabilities.

You nekro'd the thread.

You say Daikyu has slow drawing time, but that is no longer true as all Bows have same 1.0 draw rate with current builds on PC, PS4 and Xbox One.

Now that Fire-rate is out of the question:

Here is a comparison post-Bow/Attica fire rate and x2 RoF mod change: *Correction: Fire rate is 1.00 but Charge Rates are still different* My bad did not notice theu added Charge Rate

Technically the x2 RoF mod change to Bows + Attica nerfed all Rate of Fires for normal bows to 1.0 (Cernos, Paris Series, Daikyu, and Dread)I redid tests with RoF change and Daikyu is a substitue or side-gradr to Paris Prime against high armored enemies. Dread is still ahead of other bows because Slash..Bows v2 (innate x2 RoF mod update):

Paris Prime w/ Speed Trigger vs lvl 95 Corrupted HG Arson EximusDaikyu w/Vile Acceleration vs lvl 95 Corrupted H Arson EximusDread w/Base RoF vs lvl 95 Corrupted HG Arson EximusAttica w/Shred vs lvl 95 Corrupted HG Arson EximusBuilds:

Edited August 19, 2015 by (PS4)MrNishi

[(PSN)vortex2917]

Innate split chamber maybe?

[Hatzeputt]

Daikyuu has a higher average damage per shot than any other bow despite lacking red crits.  If you always headshot then Dread and Paris Prime win, though, due to red crits receiving an additional headshot multiplier.  The whole bit about Mk1 Paris being almost as good is complete BS; Daikyuu undeniably out-performs all of the 3 low tier bows in -per shot damage.  Realistic DPS numbers will vary and probably bring Daikyuu down a notch due to the long charge time, but as a heavy artillery weapon Daikyuu is solidly #3, if not better in some cases.  Its huge status chance also causes devastating Slash procs (Buzz Kill really makes this a viable approach.)  

You know what 100% crits means? It means you crit on every shot which in terms of average damage means your crit multiplier are applied every shot which in turn means that unless your Daikyuu has 12k+ its average damage is lower than that of Dread and Paris P, since  on average, they crit with every shot (if modded correctly)

 

Slash procs calculations  are based on base slash damage modified by Serration, Heavy Cal, mods that modify base damage, Buzz Kill does nothing towards slash dots and is a very bad mod to fit on the Daikyuu in the first place. (Read up on how slash procs work).

 

Daikyuu indeed beats the Mk-1 Paris vs Chernos and regular Paris things are not so clear. It is a mediocre weapon with a gimmick 100% status on a slow firing IPS weapon, which is something people have been saying since its introduction and they are right, only the rose coloured glasses fanboys and the people with no understanding of the game fail to see that. 

 

If you want status changers you need either a high RoF or pellet count OR a singular damage type,  so you can mod for the desired status effect without any weighted IPS effects getting in the way, or so that you can stack multiple status effects. This should be common WF knowledge and this is also why the Daikyuu falls short. It either needs more damage or needs to be turned into an elemental bow. 

Edited August 19, 2015 by Hatzeputt

[(PSN)MrNishi]

You know what 100% crits means? It means you crit on every shot which in terms of average damage means your crit multiplier are applied every shot which in turn means that unless your Daikyuu has 12k+ its average damage is lower than that of Dread and Paris P, since  on average, they crit with every shot (if modded correctly)

 

...

I disagree: against high armored targets without Corrosive Projection....

Daikyu hits harder than Paris Prime.

..Bows v2 (innate x2 RoF mod update):

Paris Prime w/ Speed Trigger vs lvl 95 Corrupted HG Arson Eximus

Daikyu w/Vile Acceleration vs lvl 95 Corrupted H Arson Eximus

Dread w/Base RoF vs lvl 95 Corrupted HG Arson Eximus

Attica w/Shred vs lvl 95 Corrupted HG Arson Eximus

Builds:

In these quick tests....the Corrosive procs allow the Daikyu to deal the largest average damage number against the high armored target.

Both Paris Prime and Dread had Redcrit headshot Slash procs....Daikyu had no Slash procs

Paris Prime took 8 arrows to kill target, both Dread and Daikyu took 6 arrows to kill target.

However I do wish the Daikyi had been 300 Slash Damage only with all other stats the same. Zero Puncture and Zero Impact damage.

Would have been a beast status bow with only needing either Viral + Slash or Toxin+Slash for 100% status builds and may have prompted use of Continous Misery....

How awesome would Daikyu have been if it has only the 300 slash as base damage?!?

[Hatzeputt]

I disagree: against high armored targets without Corrosive Projection....

Daikyu hits harder than Paris Prime.

In these quick tests....the Corrosive procs allow the Daikyu to deal the largest average damage number against the high armored target.

Both Paris Prime and Dread had Redcrit headshot Slash procs....Daikyu had no Slash procs

Paris Prime took 8 arrows to kill target, both Dread and Daikyu took 6 arrows to kill target.

However I do wish the Daikyi had been 300 Slash Damage only with all other stats the same. Zero Puncture and Zero Impact damage.

Would have been a beast status bow with only needing either Viral + Slash or Toxin+Slash for 100% status builds and may have prompted use of Continous Misery....

How awesome would Daikyu have been if it has only the 300 slash as base damage?!?

Funny enough, the  HG arson eximus is the weakest of all the eximus. Try cor bombard and cor heavy gunner, or try a leech eximus for the lulz and giggles.

 

I tried with cor HG and B (90) and the paris p wins in terms of killing speed every time. 

[RealPandemonium]

You know what 100% crits means? It means you crit on every shot which in terms of average damage means your crit multiplier are applied every shot which in turn means that unless your Daikyuu has 12k+ its average damage is lower than that of Dread and Paris P, since  on average, they crit with every shot (if modded correctly)

Daikyuu will still deal more average damage than Dread/PP on headshots if red crits are not included in the comparison.

 

 

You know what 100% crits means? It means you crit on every shot which in terms of average damage means your crit multiplier are applied every shot which in turn means that unless your Daikyuu has 12k+ its average damage is lower than that of Dread and Paris P, since  on average, they crit with every shot (if modded correctly)

 

Slash procs calculations  are based on base slash damage modified by Serration, Heavy Cal, mods that modify base damage, Buzz Kill does nothing towards slash dots and is a very bad mod to fit on the Daikyuu in the first place. (Read up on how slash procs work).

Slash procs use the entire base damage of the weapon; not just Slash damage.  Fanged Fusillade will make the Daikyuu proc Slash more often due to increasing the percentage of Slash damage the weapon deals.  A dedicated Slash proc build gives a ~30% chance of a Slash proc on each arrow, which can reach astronomical damage on a critical headshot.

[(PSN)avatar-heart]

I think Daikyu is fine, more over it despite it being a bow w/ bow mechanics - damage wise it's far more comparable to the opticor.

The bow itself, playstyle wise revolves around acting as a supportive VIP takedown bow - and yes, not weapons should be high/end game weapons.

Personally, I'm in love with it - I don't see any drawbacks to not being able to prematurely let off a shot because shooting a bow before you fully charge it is such a waste anyway. I mean w/ dread and paris p you'd really let it off before being able to hit 100%+ crit? Nah, not even an option for me.

It acts how it is supposed to act, the status is a nice bonus for making sure the target will fall over once hit another time round IF it survives.

You are supposed to be at long distance, thus it isn't meant for close quarters.

I'm more than sure once DE starts their rounds and takes a look at sniper and bow viability they'll address some issues or game modes that will make them shine in lovely ways - but until then ~

It really isn't bad to have something that's mechanically different is it? 

I mean people can hate on slow weapons all they want, but compared to the speedy tipedo - you'll get to really appreciate the animation work that's gone into combo's (or am I alone on this one?) 

I dunno. It's still a game of many different aspects - stat wise and design wise, but for me this leans more towards the latter.

This is my take on it. Cheers!

 

 

 

 

 

 GIVE ME 1 GOOD REASON A TINY BOW in real life WOULD TO MUCH MORE DAMAGE THAN A HUGE AWESOME LOOKING BOW..........

 

i mean you could (SPACE MAGIC) but i mean just look at it...........come on..... i have drawn a few warframe based bow and the overall design would just make the bigger one have a freak ton more damage,  having it bigger means your gonna be pulling the tight string alot harder but does not mean it will be SOOOO slow for a (WARFRAME that BLOCKS BULLETS with a huge AXE or a tiny DAGGER)..... they should be able to pull daikyu just as fast.... and it should have overall more damage if your giving that much of a speed decrease.....

 

 

 

btw bow just have high crit d, chance....... if i wanted status i'd use dread because it can get it to a pretty good chance and STILLLLLLLLLLLL have much more damage

Edited August 19, 2015 by (PS4)avatar-heart

[Scytze]

Give us Red status proc's or buff status overall and its fine, also it would make my burston baby happy. 
Also there is long forgotten thunderbolt mod, i would love to see daikyu to work well with thunderbolt or something similiar.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Funny enough, the  HG arson eximus is the weakest of all the eximus. Try cor bombard and cor heavy gunner, or try a leech eximus for the lulz and giggles.

 

That was a Corrupted HG Eximus and not a Grinneer HG Eximus

So we are experiencing different outcomes: "I tried with cor HG and B (90) and the paris p wins in terms of killing speed every time."

I will post videos of Corrupted Leech and Corrupted Bombard later

[bubbabenali]

Give us Red status proc's or buff status overall and its fine, also it would make my burston baby happy. 

Also there is long forgotten thunderbolt mod, i would love to see daikyu to work well with thunderbolt or something similiar.

Oh man red status proc like 2 procs on hit would be awesome.