Will Directional Air Melee Render Parkour 2.0 Completely Worthless? All Evidence Says Yes, So Here's How We Change That.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Directional air melee (and coptering to a FAR lesser extent) have been making 90% of parkour moves worthless since they were introduced. Why would I run across a nearby wall to get over a gap when I could just jump and press my melee button to clear it? Why would I ever spend energy on a power like Super Jump when I can replicate the effect for no energy cost?

 

What I worry is that directional air melee will do the same to parkour 2.0. I'm looking forward to the charged jump feature, but why would I ever use it when directional air melee is in the game? Leaping off of walls and zip lines seems like it would be incredibly useful for mobility, if directional air melee didn't already do its job better.

 

That doesn't even mention PVP. With the tiny map size of the Capture the Cephalon maps, it's easily possible to reach the enemy's spawnpoint in a matter of seconds with directional air melee. The mobility that they allow for in PVP is absolutely insane, and with the tiny map size, PVP suffers as a whole. This makes me worry that when Zephyr is enabled in PVP, directional air melee will make Tail Wind useless, since you can't use duration mods. More on Tail Wind and directional air melee here.

 

Directional air melee was created to allow players to hit flying enemies with melee weapons, but completely fails at that too. The hitbox for the melee attack is so unbelievably tiny that most of the time, you'll end up smashing your face into the airborne enemy you were trying to melee, only for the target to take no damage, and the remaining momentum sending you a ridiculous distance in the wrong direction. Most flying enemies only fly high enough for you to equal their altitude by jumping once. Having directional air melee send you as far as it does actually hurts the purpose that it was intended for, not to mention the tiny hitboxes.

 

Directional air melee renders many parkour moves worthless, de-values mobility skills, fails at what it was intended for, and might completely ruin parkour 2.0. Here's how we fix it:

 

1. If any part of your warframe touches an enemy during a melee air attack, the enemy takes the attack's damage. This makes using directional air melee to hit flying targets actually feasible.

 

2. Decrease the distance directional air melee launches you by 50%. Not only would this actually make it better at hitting flying enemies, it would also make many parkour moves actually worth doing, and give directional air melee a purpose rather than just a nerfed Tail Wind.

Edited May 16, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[(PSN)urkonse]

air melee is best thing ever!..

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

air melee is best thing ever!..

 

Except for literally every single reason I just said. Think game balance, not just what you personally like.

Edited May 16, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[Ceryk]

Personally, I really hope not. And honestly, I doubt it will because they have said they're toning down weapon use as a movement method on the more out of control weapons rather than removing the function all together. Personally, what I'm hoping is happening is that the real reason they aren't removing them is because they are indeed legitimate combat tactics for low to mid level play, but that they will be significantly out performed by legitimate movement methods added to the game, like super jumps, and you won't want to use them as travel techniques.

Edited May 16, 2015 by Ceryk

[HibikiGanaha]

There aren't even maps built to take full advantage of parkour 2.0.  Can you name a tile that has ziplines next to other ziplines that you might want to jump to?  I can't think of any.

 

The only thing nerfing directional melee does is buff the scindo prime and make the game slower (more boring).

[S3EK3R]

There aren't even maps built to take full advantage of parkour 2.0.  Can you name a tile that has ziplines next to other ziplines that you might want to jump to?  I can't think of any.

 

The only thing nerfing directional melee does is buff the scindo prime and make the game slower (more boring).

They said that will redesign some tiles to fit parkour 2.0

[TentownsRaid]

Depends how you look at it but from what i have "seen" of parkour 2.0 air melee helps extend jumps which is fine and coptering just speeds up ground movement again fine. Pvp wise depends on the map and weapon. Zephyr pvp depends what they change on her tailwind.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

There aren't even maps built to take full advantage of parkour 2.0.  Can you name a tile that has ziplines next to other ziplines that you might want to jump to?  I can't think of any.

 

Almost every tile set is being modified to take full advantage of parkour 2.0. I'm incredibly surprised you didn't know that. What I'm worried is that even if you take full advantage of parkour 2.0, directional air melee will still be a superior mobility tool.

 

The only thing nerfing directional melee does is buff the scindo prime and make the game slower (more boring).

 

Fast isn't always good, especially when game balance is concerned. If you have ever played a game of Cephalon Capture, you should know just how much excessive mobility can hurt the game.

 

Depends how you look at it but from what i have "seen" of parkour 2.0 air melee helps extend jumps which is fine and coptering just speeds up ground movement again fine. Pvp wise depends on the map and weapon. Zephyr pvp depends what they change on her tailwind.

 

Melee air attacks could be used to supplement parkour if they weren't completely superior to every parkour move in the game. With my suggestion do decrease the distance they send you, then they could be used to supplement it, not completely take over for it. All melee weapons provide absolutely insane mobility in PVP, and I sincerely hope Tail Wind will be changed enough to make it worthwhile over melee air attacks, but based on DE's absolutely shameful neglect for Zephyr, I wouldn't count on it.

Edited May 17, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[Vadrigos]

I'd like the parkour to be more fluid overall. When you vault, you lose all your momentum. Also, we need to fix the bug where if you hit something at high speed, you become stuck until your momentum meter winds down. True parkour would involve redirecting that momentum into the turn or shift or whatever move you're trying to make...

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

I'd like the parkour to be more fluid overall. When you vault, you lose all your momentum. Also, we need to fix the bug where if you hit something at high speed, you become stuck until your momentum meter winds down. True parkour would involve redirecting that momentum into the turn or shift or whatever move you're trying to make...

 

I sincerely hope parkour 2.0 will deliver on these fronts, but even if the above is fixed/changed, none of it will matter if directional air melee makes it all worthless.

[(PSN)T_ravenis]

Depends how you look at it but from what i have "seen" of parkour 2.0 air melee helps extend jumps which is fine and coptering just speeds up ground movement again fine. Pvp wise depends on the map and weapon. Zephyr pvp depends what they change on her tailwind.

 

Is she in PVP on pc yet?

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Is she in PVP on pc yet?

 

No, they're allowing the older frames first. I hope Zephyr gets added sometime within the next eon.

[(PSN)T_ravenis]

No, they're allowing the older frames first. I hope Zephyr gets added sometime within the next eon.

 

Me too.. She's my fav.

[HibikiGanaha]

Almost every tile set is being modified to take full advantage of parkour 2.0. I'm incredibly surprised you didn't know that. What I'm worried is that even if you take full advantage of parkour 2.0, directional air melee will still be a superior mobility tool.

 

 

Fast isn't always good, especially when game balance is concerned. If you have ever played a game of Cephalon Capture, you should know just how much excessive mobility can hurt the game.

 

 

 

Melee air attacks could be used to supplement parkour if they weren't completely superior to every parkour move in the game. With my suggestion do decrease the distance they send you, then they could be used to supplement it, not completely take over for it. All melee weapons provide absolutely insane mobility in PVP, and I sincerely hope Tail Wind will be changed enough to make it worthwhile over melee air attacks, but based on DE's absolutely shameful neglect for Zephyr, I wouldn't count on it.

I don't watch dev streams nor do I play pvp.  I was talking about the real game.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

I don't watch dev streams nor do I play pvp.  I was talking about the real game.

 

I was surprised that you knew what parkour 2.0 was and knew that it involved jumping between zip lines, but didn't know it included a redesign for old tile sets. I hope PVP will be considered part of the real game at some point, similar to how the Crucible is considered to be a part of Destiny.

[jordzkie05]

and when the coptering nerf happens everyone's gonna be volt/prime when doing rushing stuff.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

It's all but impossible to nerf any but the extreme cases in 'coptering (such as tipedo/amphis/bo prime/etc.) because several alternative forms of mobility already exist to do most of the same things.

 

Slideflip.  You slide on the floor, then jump immediately before you start to lose momentum, for an extra high and extra long jump.  When people get good at it you don't even see them slide, they just seem to flip from a standstill/run/sprint and suddenly have a bunch of forward and upward momentum they didn't have before.  To top it off, slideflip, if timed correctly, due to either implementation of "momentum" from parkour 2.0 into the game code, or modifications to make the code run more smoothly, can actually be made to result in a movement that will put all but the very best 'copter tipedos with full berserker stacks to shame.

 

Walltap.  If you see someone with no mobility or 'copter abilites jump besides a wall while running and suddenly rocket off into the distance, they are taking advantage of the fact that juuust wallrunning for long enough to "lock on" to the wall and then instantly releasing nets you a massive speed boost, similar to the rocket-speed you can now get out of sequencing a slideflip or 'copter just right.  The difference is, while you can only do walltap in certain places, it is VASTLY easier to pull off.

 

There are probably even others that I'm not aware of, TBH.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Vitalis_Inamorta

[DSpite]

Except for literally every single reason I just said. Think game balance, not just what you personally like.

 

I personally don't care what changes take effect, but ALL players have the SAME tools at their disposal, so it balances out. It is balanced. Everyone can do it. Seems to me that you "personally want" to remove directional melee simply because YOU don't like it.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

It's all but impossible to nerf any but the extreme cases in 'coptering (such as tipedo/amphis/bo prime/etc.) because several alternative forms of mobility already exist to do most of the same things.

 

Slideflip.  You slide on the floor, then jump immediately before you start to lose momentum, for an extra high and extra long jump.  When people get good at it you don't even see them slide, they just seem to flip from a standstill/run/sprint and suddenly have a bunch of forward and upward momentum they didn't have before.  To top it off, slideflip, if timed correctly, due to either implementation of "momentum" from parkour 2.0 into the game code, or modifications to make the code run more smoothly, can actually be made to result in a movement that will put all but the very best 'copter tipedos with full berserker stacks to shame.

 

Walltap.  If you see someone with no mobility or 'copter abilites jump besides a wall while running and suddenly rocket off into the distance, they are taking advantage of the fact that juuust wallrunning for long enough to "lock on" to the wall and then instantly releasing nets you a massive speed boost, similar to the rocket-speed you can now get out of sequencing a slideflip or 'copter just right.  The difference is, while you can only do walltap in certain places, it is VASTLY easier to pull off.

 

There are probably even others that I'm not aware of, TBH.

 

The main problem is that several different mobility tools exist that all do the same thing. While many of these should probably recieve some kind of change, I feel that directional air melee kills the parkour system far harder than these do. Directional air melees take almost no skill to pull off, easily equal all of these examples in terms of mobility, and completely de-value mobility skills such as Super Jump and Tail Wind.

 

I personally don't care what changes take effect, but ALL players have the SAME tools at their disposal, so it balances out. It is balanced. Everyone can do it. Seems to me that you "personally want" to remove directional melee simply because YOU don't like it.

 

It's a PVE game, balance isn't really determined by what all players have access to. I state that melee air attacks are unbalanced because they render parkour redundant and de-value mobility skills, not because only some players have access to them. The only situation in which this comment is in any way applicable is in PVP, and even then, everyone having insane amounts of mobility is still a massive problem. I also don't want to remove directional air melee. If you had read the whole post, you would know that I actually want to make it better at what it was intended for. What I personally want is irrelevant, what is best for game balance isn't.

[notlamprey]

For my part, I won't be particularly sad even if directional air melee "kills" parkour 2.0 in the way you're describing.

 

The contextual nature of current "parkour" movement means that it very often doesn't do what I want, and I struggle to understand how to reliably get "what I want" out of the system.

 

I'm guessing parkour 2.0 will also be a "one button to rule them all" context-based system, so I'm pretty doubtful that I'll get any more use out of it than I do the current system. That isn't anyone's fault, really. I strove mightily against ME3's "space bar for everything" system through every hour I played that game. I just haven't met the contextual movement/action system that wasn't a frustrating disappointment, and frankly I'll be glad to have movement options that don't involve tilting the camera just right while I'm moving just so and NO WHY DO YOU ALWAYS AUTOROLL.

 

Maybe if parkour didn't already fail at what it was intended for, the directional air melee business wouldn't be such a big problem.

[Davoodoo]

Parkour 2.0 from what ive seen are just bunch of extra animations which doesnt rework flawed parkour.

 

Theres nothing to kill since its already dead. DE will just dig in the grave, put some extra bones there and put it to rest again.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Davoodoo

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

 

For my part, I won't be particularly sad even if directional air melee "kills" parkour 2.0 in the way you're describing.

 

The contextual nature of current "parkour" movement means that it very often doesn't do what I want, and I struggle to understand how to reliably get "what I want" out of the system.

 

I'm guessing parkour 2.0 will also be a "one button to rule them all" context-based system, so I'm pretty doubtful that I'll get any more use out of it than I do the current system. That isn't anyone's fault, really. I strove mightily against ME3's "space bar for everything" system through every hour I played that game. I just haven't met the contextual movement/action system that wasn't a frustrating disappointment, and frankly I'll be glad to have movement options that don't involve tilting the camera just right while I'm moving just so and NO WHY DO YOU ALWAYS AUTOROLL.

 

Maybe if parkour didn't already fail at what it was intended for, the directional air melee business wouldn't be such a big problem.

 

Parkour 2.0 from what ive seen are just bunch of extra animations which doesnt rework flawed parkour.

 

Theres nothing to kill since its already dead. DE will just dig in the grave, put some extra bones there and put it to rest again.

 

Keep in mind that these are subjective opinions. It's entirely possible that parkour isn't working for you personally. The only real trouble I've ever had with parkour is that some moves are vastly stronger than others. However, because some parkour moves are vastly stronger than others, work is definitely needed.

 

Maybe if directional air melee wasn't such a big problem, then parkour wouldn't fail at what it was intended for.

Edited May 17, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[Davoodoo]

Keep in mind that these are subjective opinions. It's entirely possible that parkour isn't working for you personally. The only real trouble I've ever had with parkour is that some moves are vastly stronger than others. However, because some parkour moves are vastly stronger than others, work is definitely needed.

 

Maybe if directional air melee wasn't such a big problem, then parkour wouldn't fail at what it was intended for.

 

It failed as soon as ppl went buttsliding in u7.

 

None of parkour actually keeps your momentum, its all sticky and offers little control. Thats why it fails.

Parkour 2.0 fixes 0 of above problems.

 

If ppl choose to use more controllable coptering and directional melee why would they suddenly switch back to parkour if nothing has changed about it.

[.Czern]

2. Decrease the distance directional air melee launches you by 50%. Not only would this actually make it better at hitting flying enemies, it would also make many parkour moves actually worth doing, and give directional air melee a purpose rather than just a nerfed Tail Wind.

A better idea would be to hardcap jump attack's distance and make them launch you only as high as normal jump, regardless of weapon used.

[The.Night.Wolf]

Saved to read later. Love your threads doe