Crazy Fan Theory - Warframe Design Genders, Guardian Origins

[SilentMobius]

Sentients Attack

Orokin try using the new "Infested" that they made at some point.

  ^ That didn't go well

 

I don't see how the notion of deploying the modern-era infestation fits with the information we have.

 

The _only_ statement we have is that the Orokin created Lephantis to fight in the "Old War":

 

Not the Infestation in general, just Lephantis,

No statement that they were ever deployed.

All information we have about the War alludes to conventional weapons leading to the Tenno wining the war.

Mag Prime codex sets the stage for the Tenno being considered "monsters" which would make no sense if the Orokin had previously deployed actual body-horror monster made from human flesh, the Idea that a soldier would find a Tenno spooky after that is laughable.

 

Also given the crafting requirements _and_ devstream 10 talking about the "living metal" produced by the technocyte virus I'm absolutely certain that Orokin technology and specifically the Warframes use refined technocyte material (Specifically morphics, plastids, nano spores, neurodes and mutagen)

[arch111]

There is a GOOD chance that early on, Tenno were used as a black ops weapon, in the Void Era.

The soldier remembers rumor and propaganda, but thought that was all they were.

Maby the early ones looked like monsters, and later were styled into ninja actionfigures?

[Morec0]

So then, the proposed sequence of events:

Orokin create the Guardians, people in Technocyte-based suits. Hayden Tenno considered the first Guardian?

Guardians fall out of style.

Sentients attack.

Children are exposed to the Void and transformed somehow (Ember Prime codex)

Orokin create Technocyte monsters, Void survivors able to synch with their minds (Rhino Prime codex)

Void survivors given living Technocyte warframes in the style of the Guardians to defeat the Sentients, named the Tenno

 

If Tenno are just thin humanoids, how do we explain the warframes being designed with the shape of normally filled-out humans? Every Warframe besides Nekros would be unnecessarily bulky and inconvenient.

 

No, no, the Guardians never had these suits. The Suits, the Warframes, were created BASED on the physical appearance of the Guardians and then given to the Tenno.

 

Walk up to a mirror naked. Look at yourself. Add in some semblance of clothing and armor designs onto the basic look and shape of your body. That's what they did.

 

The Proposed sequence of events:

 

Human children are exposed to the Void (Ember Codex) during the Void Era (as mentioned in Mag Codex), locked away for a long time after that.

Orokin Era begins.

Guardians are Created to defend the Empire (or what came before it, where this is at is fuzzy).

As science moves forward the Guardians become obsolete.

Sentients attack, and all the technological advancement is for naught.

Guardian numbers are too small to deal with them.

The Human children are taken out of cryosleep or whatever (or perhaps they simply could not die - Oro and all that) when it's realized they can be used as a part of the defense.

Orokin create Technocyte monsters, Void survivors able to synch with their minds (Rhino Prime codex)

Void survivors given living Technocyte warframes, using the physical appearance of the few remaining Guardians as base model to go off of.

 

And I'm not here to talk about HOW this can happen. That's another matter or another discussion. I'm just interested in, at this juncture, pointing out a possible WHY.

 

 

I don't see how the notion of deploying the modern-era infestation fits with the information we have.

 

The _only_ statement we have is that the Orokin created Lephantis to fight in the "Old War":

 

Not the Infestation in general, just Lephantis,

No statement that they were ever deployed.

All information we have about the War alludes to conventional weapons leading to the Tenno wining the war.

Mag Prime codex sets the stage for the Tenno being considered "monsters" which would make no sense if the Orokin had previously deployed actual body-horror monster made from human flesh, the Idea that a soldier would find a Tenno spooky after that is laughable.

 

Also given the crafting requirements _and_ devstream 10 talking about the "living metal" produced by the technocyte virus I'm absolutely certain that Orokin technology and specifically the Warframes use refined technocyte material (Specifically morphics, plastids, nano spores, neurodes and mutagen)

 

On the "it would make no sense for the Tenno to be a monster if Lephantis had already been deployed".

 

Zombies and Vampires are both monsters, both feared, but one is most certainly more human than the other.

 

Or replace Zombies with something a little less humanoid, if that helps you.

 

But yes, it's possible Lephantis was never deployed, in fact it makes more sense that it was never deployed since it's still in Origin. A theory I once heard suggested was that Lepthantis might have been a Warframe experiment gone wrong - growing and consuming despite what it was supposed to do.

 

 

Hmm. Still, we built suits around them, have allways indicated void returnees to me.

Following your logic we can theorise that a number of the Guardians were sent to the Void.

These came after the Zariman, and Hayden Tenno was the first among them.

These new Guardians, maby they became known as the high Guardians/Tenno?

 

NO, no, no, the Guardians did not BECOME the Warframes. They were simply used as the artistic model for designing them. Like if someone drew a picture of you - that picture is the Warframe.

 

There is a GOOD chance that early on, Tenno were used as a black ops weapon, in the Void Era.

The soldier remembers rumor and propaganda, but thought that was all they were.

Maby the early ones looked like monsters, and later were styled into ninja actionfigures?

 

The way I see it post-Oro revelation, the "ones from the Zariman" were studied for their Void exposure after their return, and upon the discovery of their inability to die (whether that itself is Oro or not is unclear atm) humanity began to harvest or synthesize this power - Oro leading to humanity becoming the Orokin and their Empire.

 

Of course, you don't just tell people about this sort of thing, but whether or not they actually did any fighting it IS a good tool to keep the peasants - in particular, Grineer soldiers - in line. The Guardians do the actual heavy lifting when push comes to shove, the Tenno are the propaganda used to scare people into line.

 

Or perhaps they were used, but we KNOW the Warframes weren't a thing until the Old War.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Morec0

[SilentMobius]

On the "it would make no sense for the Tenno to be a monster if Lephantis had already been deployed".

 

Zombies and Vampires are both monsters, both feared, but one is most certainly more human than the other.

 

Or replace Zombies with something a little less humanoid, if that helps you.

 

Thing is. If you had a war movie with Vampires and Zombies (full-on body horror Resident Evil style Zombies)  The notion of normal soldiers in a movie-war who were aware of their side deploying Zombies sitting next to a vampire and thinking "this is a monster" _without_ at least a mention of "But we were deploying Zombies previously" stretches credulity, IMHO beyond breaking point.

 

It makes the Mag Prime codex seem like nonsense.

 

But yes, it's possible Lephantis was never deployed, in fact it makes more sense that it was never deployed since it's still in Origin. A theory I once heard suggested was that Lepthantis might have been a Warframe experiment gone wrong - growing and consuming despite what it was supposed to do.

 

I think that was me ;) Personally I _love_ the idea of Lephantis being raw-materials for a new Warframe gone horribly wrong. It also explains why the Orokin would be so stupid as to "create the infestation" when they obviously knew how bad the technocyte virus could be _and_ explains why it would be created if the Tenno were winning the war. If they were trying to create another line of Warframes that were winning the War for them rather than deliberately creating body-horror monstrosities, with seemingly no good reason to.

 

It also makes the infestation squarely _our_ (the Tenno's) responsibility to solve, it would be literally be a brother/sister gone bad.

 

Hell, what if all of the infestation's drive to consume flesh was a twisted version of the symbiosis between Warframe and Tenno.

 

And it gives a good solid reason for infested flesh to be able to "puppet" a Warframe (a-la Mesa)

Edited May 20, 2015 by SilentMobius

[Lightsmith]

I don't see how the notion of deploying the modern-era infestation fits with the information we have.

 

The _only_ statement we have is that the Orokin created Lephantis to fight in the "Old War":

 

Not the Infestation in general, just Lephantis,

No statement that they were ever deployed.

All information we have about the War alludes to conventional weapons leading to the Tenno wining the war.

Mag Prime codex sets the stage for the Tenno being considered "monsters" which would make no sense if the Orokin had previously deployed actual body-horror monster made from human flesh, the Idea that a soldier would find a Tenno spooky after that is laughable.

 

Also given the crafting requirements _and_ devstream 10 talking about the "living metal" produced by the technocyte virus I'm absolutely certain that Orokin technology and specifically the Warframes use refined technocyte material (Specifically morphics, plastids, nano spores, neurodes and mutagen)

Speculation on the Origin of the Infested is listed on Wikia. Infested type creatures were first utilized but it mutated out of the Orokin's control eventually turning into the infested we have today.

 

People being afraid of super soldiers who aren't wholely human isn't that hard to believe. Also I personally believe that the Infested were deployed in mass and that prior to the mutation which sent them out of control they were not monsters. You also assume that 1, that people had seen the previous infested, and 2, would no longer be phased by a warrior god after seeing them.

 

Also, I haven't seen Devstream 10, but going off crafting requirements isn't very wise. A Kama requires 5 Neural Sensors, does not mean something, does it have a brain or eyes or something, nope, just resources.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Lightsmith

[SilentMobius]

 

Speculation on the Origin of the Infested is listed on Wikia. Infested type creatures were first utilized but it mutated out of the Orokin's control eventually turning into the infested we have today.

 

All rampant speculation, the only in-game, canonical comment we have is a single line about Lephantis, that's it. It's one interpretation of that one line vs every single mention of the Old War everywhere else that fails to mention anything like the infestation. It's just not likely that it was used in the war. 

 

Possible: sure,

The default assumption given what we know: far from it.

 

People being afraid of super soldiers who aren't wholely human isn't that hard to believe. Also I personally believe that the Infested were deployed in mass and that prior to the mutation which sent them out of control they were not monsters. You also assume that 1, that people had seen the previous infested, and 2, would no longer be phased by a warrior god after seeing them.

 

Given what we see of the infestation we have no reason to assume there is a significant difference between the Infestation then vs the infestation now. We have the Eviscerator Sanctuary entry that is fairly explicit that the infestation was horrific shortly after the end of the War, so we have logical reason to posit a unmentioned difference during the war. 

 

The infestation is a _big_ deal. Talking about a notable historical even where it was present without mentioning it in _any_ of the war-time exposition we have (Mirage Mission, Excalibur Codex, Mag Codex) just seems unlikely and bad storytelling. Which I don't see DE doing.

 

Also, I haven't seen Devstream 10, but going off crafting requirements isn't very wise. A Kama requires 5 Neural Sensors, does not mean something, does it have a brain or eyes or something, nope, just resources.

 

Link for you http://youtu.be/elXEQSf4jeY?t=56m15s

I see no reason not to accept that broad strokes in resource trends are indicative of technology employed. In the absence of counter information it is simply another data point.

[Lightsmith]

 

 

 

All rampant speculation, the only in-game, canonical comment we have is a single line about Lephantis, that's it. It's one interpretation of that one line vs every single mention of the Old War everywhere else that fails to mention anything like the infestation. It's just not likely that it was used in the war. 

 

Possible: sure,

The default assumption given what we know: far from it.

 

 

Given what we see of the infestation we have no reason to assume there is a significant difference between the Infestation then vs the infestation now. We have the Eviscerator Sanctuary entry that is fairly explicit that the infestation was horrific shortly after the end of the War, so we have logical reason to posit a unmentioned difference during the war. 

 

The infestation is a _big_ deal. Talking about a notable historical even where it was present without mentioning it in _any_ of the war-time exposition we have (Mirage Mission, Excalibur Codex, Mag Codex) just seems unlikely and bad storytelling. Which I don't see DE doing.

 

 

Link for you http://youtu.be/elXEQSf4jeY?t=56m15s

I see no reason not to accept that broad strokes in resource trends are indicative of technology employed. In the absence of counter information it is simply another data point.

 

To deny admittance of speculation in a topic that is almost purely that is a but hypocritical. Your absence of evidence IS evidence is a not a good method. With the weak amount of lore we have pretty much any theory could be claimed to be legitimate with that idea.

 

Honestly the infestation could have easily been a minor issue at the time. If you think of the full might of the Tenno, backed by everyone, the Infestation could have easily been pushed back and thought defeated quickly. The most obvious threat was the Sentients so however bad the infestation was they were clearly worse.

 

I see evidence that the Orokin made Lephantis, who is an infested, so I feel that they likely had a hand in much of the other infested. By your logic there is no counter information to this so this would support it, no? Also the infestation mutates quite a bit since it's been a few hundred years since the Orokin war I think it's highly likely they changed. If made by the Orokin, who are big on appearances I think they original Infested would have been more visually appealing or more following of a template than the mismash we have now.

 

The fact that many items require resources that make no sense, i.e. things requiring Neural Sensors for no reason, is, in fact, a counter point.

 

Overall this entire thread and my original post are speculation, there is no current evidence to wholely prove or disprove what people think.

[Katinka]

Just one thing.

 

If Excalibur looks the way he does because his armour is based on Stalker's appearance,  who is Nyx based on and why does she look just like a female Excalibur/Stalker?  Would this mean Stalker had a twin sister?

[Morec0]

Just one thing.

 

If Excalibur looks the way he does because his armour is based on Stalker's appearance,  who is Nyx based on and why does she look just like a female Excalibur/Stalker?  Would this mean Stalker had a twin sister?

 

That or someone who just coincidentally had a similar (albeit female) body shape.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Morec0

[arch111]

@Morec0.

I mean not the Guardians as becoming warframes, rather they were the first Tenno. Hayden Tenno among them.

The appearances coupled with the energy made them good models for the warframes.

I got the idea from Stalkers comment of him being among the other Guardians, watching the Tenno.

[Morec0]

@Morec0.

I mean not the Guardians as becoming warframes, rather they were the first Tenno. Hayden Tenno among them.

The appearances coupled with the energy made them good models for the warframes.

I got the idea from Stalkers comment of him being among the other Guardians, watching the Tenno.

 

Ah, I see, my apologies.

 

Well, it's unclear if they themselves had any energy - though I'd say the Orokin's affinity for Oro certainly factored in (though where that could be said to be an "Orokin thing" is up for debate), though I don't think they had any super-human abilities of their own (that would have made them a LITTLE more difficult to be outmoded by Technology and the Tenno) or were just really, REALLY disciplined.

 

But yeah, depending on when and there the Tenno came from I'd say they would have been used as sort of an inspiration, a "we need to get these guys back, but better", for the Warframes and later Warframe-Tenno combo.

 

Though, can you walk me through EXACTLY what you're train of thought process from Stalker's comment was there? All I got from it myself was "there were multiple Guardians, likely and order all their own".

[VampirePirate]

 

But why leave it at that when there are potential explanations within the lore? Why just say "because we didn't feel like it" when you can use it to flesh out the universe?

 

This is all just my theory, but the above sentence is how I feel something on the level of this should be addressed.

 

Don't get me wrong.  I like your ideas and I'm impressed with the effort you put into this.  My only concern is, why no one on the DE development team is making the same effort?   There is no real reason why the game does not have adequate lore (with except to the fact that DE wants this game to be shrouded in mystery).  I think that the game can be more immersive if they hire a 'lore developer' or something, or, like they have done with reading player feedback and using ideas to make new warframes and weapons, why not just start taking posts (like yours) and begin implementing them to help make better sense of things?

 

Despite all player speculation, I find myself 'waiting for DE to confirm or deny' what we suspect, and it can be quite bothersome.  I would find it rewards if DE would begin to take into consideration lore theories that players construct or maybe easy up on the mysteries a bit.   With a game that is destined to never become finished, the lore should be treated as malleable content just to fit in whatever new and newer ideas may contradict known lore.  For example: Valkyr Prime versus not being possible because ______.

 

About Valkyr by the way, I think it is fine that you base her history on her appearance, but I don't think the helmet resembles the Lotus symbol.  Maybe I'm just not seeing it or it is an abstract version if not an entirely different symbol.  If I were you, I would probably go more into the purpose of her original condition and powers before Corpus experimentation (considering that her powers were changed).  I have some ideas on that that may make for some interesting lore.

[arch111]

I know that this is highly subjective and personal, but I detect a loathing for the Tenno from the Stalkers words.

If they were spoken i imagine him saying:

"The Tenno appeared at the Terminus, gleaming and victorious. Our cold and gold Emperors, breathless, bathed you in savior's silk(sarcasm).

Then came the sound. Across all our worlds, all at once, the ceremonial Naga drums.

A royal salute to the (mockingly)honored Tenno. Ten solemn beats to declare the suffering was over.

I watched from a distance, with the rest of the (sarcasm, envy)low Guardians."

Like they were cast aside, the Tenno having taken their place. He loathes the Tenno, and himself gives them the title "low" in sarcasm of thr fact that they should have been the ones by the Emperors side.

Coupled with Tenshins words of how the Tenno once were disciplined and free, somehow blend together with the Guardians watching from afar, being reduced in rank by their brothers.

As I said, this is a very personal interpretation of the events and my need to know what happened to the Guardians after the Betrayal.

[arch111]

@vampirepirate about Lotus being a model for Valkyr.

I had a similar thought before and that led me to the following concept.

[Lightsmith]

I know that this is highly subjective and personal, but I detect a loathing for the Tenno from the Stalkers words.

If they were spoken i imagine him saying:

-snip

As I said, this is a very personal interpretation of the events and my need to know what happened to the Guardians after the Betrayal.

I see it similarly. He feels they had everything, Power, Respect, etc, but they betrayed the ones that gave them that. While he (the stalker) was just a simple guard (I envision to be like a police officer or security guard)

 

Just one thing.

 

If Excalibur looks the way he does because his armour is based on Stalker's appearance,  who is Nyx based on and why does she look just like a female Excalibur/Stalker?  Would this mean Stalker had a twin sister?

Excalibur was the original, so it is likely the Stalker and others were built off that. Originally I think DE planned to make Nyx the female version but went a different direction.

 

IMO, Excalibur was the first, so Orokin started a watered down mass production of him, while others continued to make elite specialized versions, making up the other warframes we have. It certain could be within the realm of possibility that there is a female version of the Stalker armor, (female Low Guardian). But since the gender of Tenno seems to be able to change (based on mono tenno theory) a female version may not be necessary.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Lightsmith

[Akavakaku]

"Excalibur was the first." This sentence applies to the first warframe used by a Tenno, not the first warframe, period. I'd imagine that Excalibur, the first warframe made for a Tenno, was based on both the appearance of Stalker and the ancient warframe of Hayden Tenno, then Nyx was made based on Excalibur. Later warframes might have been purely original in their design.

 

As for why they have gendered appearances, I'd say the Orokin probably didn't want beasts or monsters winning their war, they wanted humans... if nothing else, in appearance. The proto-Rhino is implied to be a former human and with a humanoid stature, rather than a mere assembly of random flesh, probably an early attempt at the concept the Tenno later embodied.

 

Additionally, even if not every Tenno warframe wasn't based on a Guardian's, they might have all been designed in a similar style, to make the citizens more comfortable with them... "these are just like the old Guardians, only better." On the downside, this might have just added insult to injury for the Guardians.

[Papa_Nuk_Nuk]

Alright, before going into this you might want to read this thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/430916-stalker-teshin-lotus-the-guardians/

 

It covers the base assumption of what I am about to approach here.

 

Alright, so, in wake of the latest "Warframe gender change plox!" thread and the debates encircling there, I can attempted to consider a possible way as to why lore-wise Warframe gender swaps wouldn't be a thing - as DE has said before they are not interested in doing (at least at this time).

 

To this, I returned to an earlier theory of mine that the Warframes were artistically designed by the Orokin as well as physically crafted by them to do certain things (those "things" being the powers they possess). But if they crafted a male version of them, why not craft a female version? The Orokin were human (a confirmed by the fathers past-tense identification as one in the Anti Moa Synthesis), and if they were anything like the humans of today they might have a (arguably healthy) interest in gender-swaps.

 

So, why didn't they?

 

Well, perhaps because it would do disservice to the models they based them off of.

 

Enter the Guardians - or Low Guardians, whichever it turns out to be - and here's where you go back up, actually click that link, and read what I said about them to see where I'm coming from.

 

Go on. I'll wait.

 

...

 

Done?

 

Alright.

 

So, here you have the Guardians, what should be the peak of Orokin defense gone sour as technology made them "obsolete" and their order withered into nothingness. They have their members, but sure as hell not enough to combat the Sentient thread (hence, the Tenno as we know them). But, there are still a lot of them, enough to train the Tenno, guide them...

 

Provide a model for their Warframes.

 

Oh, yes, much like those embarrassing nude studies you had to do in art school the physique of the Guardians became the basis for the physical designs of the Warframes - to the majority of the extent, at least; given the exact physical appearance of... quite a few of the Warframes it would be impossible for people to actually look like that (unless the Orokin were into some wonky physical manipulation stuff) and the Orokin designers would have taken some liberties (like when you drew the nude studies... I have just been advised to not finish this sentence).

 

EDIT: Since a lot of people are having difficulties with what I'm saying...

 

I a NOT saying that the Guardians actually BECAME the Warfarmes, had their bodies twisted and turned into them, I am saying that the bodies of the Guardians were used as the artistic inspiration for the Warframes.

 

Imagine someone drew a picture of you. You are the Guardian, that picture is the Warframe.

 

Moving on...

 

Where is my proof for this?

 

Stalker to Excalibur.

 

I hereby but forward that the reason Stalker's body is exactly that of Excalibur's (with a different helmet) is NOT that he stole an Excalibur Warframe suit (at least, not right off the bat) but that his body was the one that Excalibur - the First Tenno - was based off of. Potentially, this may have made him the greatest of the Orokin Guardians, hence why his body was chosen to act as a model first off, and with greatness comes rank, and with rank comes closeness to your leaders, and with closeness to your leaders comes resent when someone cuts them down... And you see where I've gone with this.

 

"But he uses Nyx powers! And other Warframe powers too! Excalibur can't use those powers!" 

 

Keep in mind that I am NOT saying that the POWERS were based off of the Guardian models, those came from another source altogether (likely just Orokin need and imagination), only the physical appearance of their bodies (height, build, ect), and perhaps the armor they chose for themselves...

 

On that last point, I would even contest that, perhaps, Valkyr was once the frame modeled after Lotus herself - I could see that half-removed jade piece on her head to have once been part of a Lotus design, couldn't you?

 

But I may be scrapping up the wrong tree with that whole "based on their armor" thing, so let's back away from that.

 

So, what does this have to do with the Warframes not being able to switch genders?

 

Well, simply put, I would say that the Orokin never made a Female Excalibur (Nyx doesn't count) or a Male Nova because doing so, in their eyes and perhaps the eyes of the models they were working with, would have been disrespectful to the Guardians whose forms were being used as the template (some people just don't find it flattering to be re-imagined as a woman) and... well, there also would have been no point - but that's a suggestion for another time.

 

And why don't the Tenno themselves make them? Well, they can't. They don't have the technology or records to recreate something a powerful as the Warframes from scratch in such a way that would allow them to re-gender them. Every Warframe we have is drenched up from the past, created in the Orokin Era, hence the Prime versions of them.

 

Whatever techniques or the like the Orokin used to make them have been lost - possibly destroyed by us to keep potential hostile groups from getting their hands on that research and using it for their own evil ends.

 

So, what do you think? Could the Guardians have been the physical base from which the Tenno Warframes were designed?

 

Leave a comment, tell me what you think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Join me next week for my exploration of who "Hayden Tenno" is in the Warframe universe!

Upon completion of the Limbo Theorem quest, Ordis mentions that the Operator "occupies" a warframe.  Word choice is interesting, because in this case, it seems as if we don't "wear" one or "use" one, rather we "occupy" it.  We definitely "are" not the warframes, but we definitely don't just "put them on"...

Hayden Tenno is unrelated to warframe universe, confirmed by devs.

[SilentMobius]

To deny admittance of speculation in a topic that is almost purely that is a but hypocritical. Your absence of evidence IS evidence is a not a good method. With the weak amount of lore we have pretty much any theory could be claimed to be legitimate with that idea.

 

You're applying real-world standards of evidence to a story, I am evaluating the Lore as a story (because that's what it is) the author omitting story elements that _should_ be present _is_ an indication that the reader had made a mistake in their understanding of the story.

 

Evaluating these fragments without trying to understand what the real-world author is trying to tell-us-the-players, is ignoring a lot of between-the-lines information that in intended for us.

 

Also to 'deny admittance' of speculation is _perfectly normal_ when that speculation is being submitted as a _source_ of data. Much better to go directly to the common source. Anything said in the wiki stands alone on equal footing with anything I speculate or you speculate it is not a reference point to be used _by_ your speculation against mine.

 

 

I see evidence that the Orokin made Lephantis, who is an infested, so I feel that they likely had a hand in much of the other infested. By your logic there is no counter information to this so this would support it, no?

 

Perfectly possible. The flow of nav-coords to golem-nav coords to ODS (Lephantis) does however suggests that all the modern day infested may all be created by Lephantis as an infection source, but that is only one data point.

 

Also the infestation mutates quite a bit since it's been a few hundred years since the Orokin war I think it's highly likely they changed.

 

And here is where you deviate something that is likely into unsupported speculation. As I pointed out we have a Sanctuary article set _closely_ after the war (Orokin Executor still living, recent fall of the Empire) that describes the infestation in precisely the terms that we know it to be now. "claws" "those things" "stench" "monster" Certainly something considered more monstrous that a Mag Prime. Making the Mag Prime codex interaction look odd (in a story sense) if the Infestation of that time had been deployed before the Tenno.

 

Overall this entire thread and my original post are speculation, there is no current evidence to wholely prove or disprove what people think.

 

And speculation stands against speculation of the merits of it's adherence with the source data (prove or disprove is irrelevant near impossible in the fantasy world of a 3rd party author), be it implication by the authors or data-from the author's stories giving us data from in-world sources.

 

I am not suggesting I'm _right_ I'm suggesting that what you are positing is not the most likely outcome from the data we have.

[SilentMobius]

Hayden Tenno is unrelated to warframe universe, confirmed by devs.

 

This isn't accurate.

 

Hayden Tenno is the "OG" (Original Gangsta) in relations to the question "Is Hayden the first Tenno", That was a Word-of-God answer to a question about Warframe.

 

However there is nothing of the game "Dark Sector" we can rely on as history in the Warframe universe. So the story of the Warframe "Hayden Tenno" could be completely different compared to the protagonist of "Dark Sector"

 

As an example:

 

How did Peter Parker become Spider Man?

 

Was he bitten by a radioactive spider at a science fair in High school?

Or was he bitten by a spider carrying a DNA mutagen while visiting Orcorp?

Or was he bitten by a genetically modified spider that was designed to make 'biocable' while sneaking in to Oscorp?

 

Same name, same basic idea, different details.

Edited May 21, 2015 by SilentMobius

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

-snip-

Hayden Tenno is unrelated to warframe universe, confirmed by devs.

 

This isn't accurate.

 

Hayden Tenno is the "OG" (Original Gangsta) in relations to the question "Is Hayden the first Tenno", That was a Word-of-God answer to a question about Warframe.

 

However there is nothing of the game "Dark Sector" we can rely on as history in the Warframe universe. So the story of the Warframe "Hayden Tenno" could be completely different compared to the protagonist of "Dark Sector"

 

 

Dark Sector being 4/10 canonical likely means that Hayden Tenno is a part of Warframe, but a retcon is necessary. If you watch the original Dark Sector Demo reel, you will see that Hayden Tenno was a character from a setting more reminiscent of what we have now in Warframe.

 

[SilentMobius]

Dark Sector being 4/10 canonical likely means that Hayden Tenno is a part of Warframe, but a retcon is necessary. If you watch the original Dark Sector Demo reel, you will see that Hayden Tenno was a character from a setting more reminiscent of what we have now in Warframe.

 

Yep I've seen the DS pitch video, but that game doesn't exist either, Some of those ideas went into DS and some were modified to go to Warframe. We have no idea if anything there applies to the "Hayden Tenno" that we know existed in the Warframe timeline. We know literally nothing about him save the statements made by the devs

[321agemo]

@Morec0 so what youre saying is the rampant Rhino in rhino p index is a former guardian?

We have no idea if anything there applies to the "Hayden Tenno" that we know existed in the Warframe timeline. We know literally nothing about him save the statements made by the devs

We know he definitely exists if thats any help. For one thing, doesnt excalibur suot have Hayden Tenno imprinted on it? Also, we're named after him aren't we?

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Yep I've seen the DS pitch video, but that game doesn't exist either, Some of those ideas went into DS and some were modified to go to Warframe. We have no idea if anything there applies to the "Hayden Tenno" that we know existed in the Warframe timeline. We know literally nothing about him save the statements made by the devs

 

We know that Hayden Tenno's name is printed in Tennobet on multiple Warframes, notably on Excalibur. Steve Sinclair, said that most of the original design document for Dark Sector has been realized in Warframe. That leaves the fate of the original protagonist, Hayden Tenno a mystery. Given the Dev's statement that DS is not a prequel and only a 4/10 canonical reference, we can assume that the Hayden Tenno of DS is not likely the same character that may exist in Warframe. Or if so, that story would still likely be heavily retconned for Warframe.

[SilentMobius]

We know that Hayden Tenno's name is printed in Tennobet on multiple Warframes, notably on Excalibur. Steve Sinclair, said that most of the original design document for Dark Sector has been realized in Warframe. That leaves the fate of the original protagonist, Hayden Tenno a mystery. Given the Dev's statement that DS is not a prequel and only a 4/10 canonical reference, we can assume that the Hayden Tenno of DS is not likely the same character that may exist in Warframe. Or if so, that story would still likely be heavily retconned for Warframe.

 

Yes, but no specific part of the DS-that-never-happened is in any way confirmed to be historical in the setting of Warframe, that's the point I'm making. We have 3 distinct Haydens here:

 

* Hayden Tenno of the released Dark Sector, technocyte infected, ex-Agency black ops.

* Hayden Tenno of the Dark Sector pitch video, star of a single player game that never happened, wearing a robotic suit with no visible organic material

* Hayden Tenno of Warframe, mentioned in inscriptions on Warframes and confirmed by Word-of-God to be the "first Tenno"

 

We have no reason to assume that any of the attributes of any of these Haydens match any of the others.

Edited May 21, 2015 by SilentMobius

[Dawnstrider]

....or it could be that the devs did whatever the heck they wanted without considering the lore at all.

 

 

Pretty much this, it's cute that people believe DE have the lore all planned out but if they did we'd have all the codex entries for Warframes by now, and as far as I'm aware the Arid Eviscerator still doesn't have lore attached to it despite being scanned...2-3 weeks ago?.

 

DE are making things up as they go along.