RoboticApplesWithLasers Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Valkyr's paralysis keeps a player from doing anything, even turing to aim, along with it's short cast time and low energy cost, this abiltiy can easily turn off 2-3 players long enough to kill them all. Ember's world on fire will kill you. you cannot get out of area if you are near the epicenter, again- short cast time, multiple deadly hits, atleast 2 will always hit, the flame proc takes care of rest. Oberon's slam dunk: this stuns all players in a range, but a single tenno can only take out one or possibly two tenno in the time it is unecessary for paralysis, the single best ability available right now, to also be weilded by the tankiest warframe in conclave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legendarysidekicksteve Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 You counterplay these abilities by running away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NinthAria Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I wouldn't call World on Fire's cast time "short," and it won't kill you unless Ember has 75+ energy stored up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakshal Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 You counterplay these abilities by running away. Pretty much this. Both abilities have pretty short ranges and pretty long cast times so they can die while casting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phasedragon Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 what world do you live in? Paralysis does nothing but messing up your aim and drain your stamina. It has absolutely nothing to do with stopping you in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elfalpha Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 A damage based ult should kill you if you are caught in it. If it doesn't, what is the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AR.D2 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Warcry is the ability you're thinking of and it actually costs 75 energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorsContraction Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Ember's ult doesn't kill you instantly and actually gives you a chance to kill the Ember. Compare to say Volt and Frost who will instagib you, I don't see what the problem is. Also the audio cue is pretty good on Ember's ult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighttide77 Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I've been killed as Ember running around with WoF, and I've killed Embers running around with WoF. To counter WoF, keep a proper distance, and you should also be able to hear it coming because it's pretty loud. Oberon's Ult is one of the few ults that will not outright kill players. There's nothing wrong with it. If you're caught up in it, directional melee out of the vicinity as fast as possible. It's not much different from other knockdown/stun situations. Valkyr's Paralysis does not almost do anything in Conclave. Warcry slows players in a close range, and has a casting time which makes it difficult to actually hit anyone with. To that, it also costs 75 energy. In this way, it's similar to Mag's Bullet Attractor in being able to pick out specific enemies to take down with 3/4 of your energy pool. If you are hit by it, you will probably die, just like Bullet Attractor. However, there is still a chance you may shoot the Valkyr before you're finished. If an ally even cares about you, they might use a power that removes debuffs and saves you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3DBelmont456 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) it is unecessary for paralysis, the single best ability available right now, to also be weilded by the tankiest warframe in conclave. It's posts like this that make me wonder if people who spend their time posting in the forums about random issues even bother to play the game at all... Yeah Valkyre is the tankiest Conclave frame in the game, but she's balanced by having 2 of the worst cheap energy abilities for conclave and the lowest shields (this means she will still get wrecked by high DPS weapons). Her ripline pretty much sucks, this is especially true if the enemy has handspring, and paralysis is the absolute worst ability you can use next to a group of enemy tenno. All it does is root you in place, it has short range, it does NOT stunlock, and the damage is so miniscule that you may as well pull out your bo and whack them around like a piñata... you'll at least have a chance to kill them while keeping your dignity... if you really want a broken frame for Conclave, pick Rhino, Excalibur or Frost... ALL of their 1 skills are practically spin to win abilities... Edited May 22, 2015 by R3DBelmont456 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalgearfox Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 A damage based ult should kill you if you are caught in it. If it doesn't, what is the point? The ability also doesn't involve aiming, why is it in pvp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3DBelmont456 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 The ability also doesn't involve aiming, why is it in pvp? You'd be surprised what people will consider legal in PvP these days... I stopped playing Titanfall for a similar reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalgearfox Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 You'd be surprised what people will consider legal in PvP these days... I stopped playing Titanfall for a similar reason... I've started sticking to 1vall because people seem to die too often to reach 100 energy. I also refused to play SSB brawl with final smashes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3DBelmont456 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 lol... brawl is ill suited for competitive play even if you turn all items off and play only in FD, and that's because of random slipping ><'... you're better off playing Project M or Smash 4 which is the better brawl... but back to the subject... As long as they keep OP frame skills from one shotting people unless they're 1) an ult and 2) a really close range ability, I think PvP atm is well balanced... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalgearfox Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 As long as they keep OP frame skills from one shotting people unless they're 1) an ult Why should ults one shot people? Why should anything one shot anyone? That offers no opportunities for counter play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3DBelmont456 Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 (edited) Unless the game is about to end then getting to 100 energy to be able to use the ult takes awhile, and most of the time you'll be dead before you can even get the energy to use your ult anyway... I find ults in any game to be like a Scorestreak so to speak... it rewards you for staying alive by making it easier to keep killing your opponents, most (if not all) ults don't even one shot at full health anyhow, they're high risk, leave you vunerable while casting AND if you miss it you pretty much wasted all your energy... It's perfectly balanced, it's the equivalent of an overshield or power weapon in Halo, it offers Map control so a good team can keep their lead. I know that games that allow comebacks can be more exiting (that's not to say that doesn't happen in Conclave cause I've been in matches where we catch up from an astronomically bad start or vice versa...), but to me warframe is in a good spot as a balanced arena shooter with fast paced movement, it sure as hell is WAY better than S4 League which has very similar playstyles... Edited May 22, 2015 by R3DBelmont456 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalgearfox Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 I find ults in any game to be like a Scorestreak so to speak... it rewards you for staying alive by making it easier to keep killing your opponents But that's antithetical to good game design. Usually, you build your pvp around the opposite of that, sometimes called "100 yard dash with pistols", where the players who fall behind are given a boost in order to catch up. Blue shell in mariokart and "pity final smash" in SSBB are two examples of it but they're everywhere player vs player game design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aodan Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 With the way DE implements new frames/weapons into PvP. S#&$ is simply imbalanced and poorly implemented. DE you seriously need to take balance serious and get ppl who actual can streamline balance in conclave. Valk is in NO WAY balanced and although ember isn't as unbalanced her ulti needs a look. Also one shoting with bows again are you fn kidding me? The taste conclave leaves in my mouth makes me almost not care to play the game at all. Remove valk and daikyu till you actually balance them. Implementing a high armor warframe w/ warcry is so fkn stupid. Take your PvP balance seriously or remove it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakshal Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 With the way DE implements new frames/weapons into PvP. S#&$ is simply imbalanced and poorly implemented. DE you seriously need to take balance serious and get ppl who actual can streamline balance in conclave. Valk is in NO WAY balanced and although ember isn't as unbalanced her ulti needs a look. Also one shoting with bows again are you fn kidding me? The taste conclave leaves in my mouth makes me almost not care to play the game at all. Remove valk and daikyu till you actually balance them. Implementing a high armor warframe w/ warcry is so fkn stupid. Take your PvP balance seriously or remove it lol You call Valkyr, Ember, and Daikyu overpowered but you don't explain why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aodan Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 It's posts like this that make me wonder if people who spend their time posting in the forums about random issues even bother to play the game at all... Yeah Valkyre is the tankiest Conclave frame in the game, but she's balanced by having 2 of the worst cheap energy abilities for conclave and the lowest shields (this means she will still get wrecked by high DPS weapons). Her ripline pretty much sucks, this is especially true if the enemy has handspring, and paralysis is the absolute worst ability you can use next to a group of enemy tenno. All it does is root you in place, it has short range, it does NOT stunlock, and the damage is so miniscule that you may as well pull out your bo and whack them around like a piñata... you'll at least have a chance to kill them while keeping your dignity... if you really want a broken frame for Conclave, pick Rhino, Excalibur or Frost... ALL of their 1 skills are practically spin to win abilities... It is honestly not that hard to get 50/100 energy esp if you get energy surge. Energy in general is way too generous. DE honestly needs to limit energy and health spawns to two spots per map. "Energy running" is probably the best option to winning any conclave. As weapons don't compare to using a well planned ulti, spamming 1s, or in valks case turning 2-3 enemies into easy targets while taking 3-5 extra hits compared to other frames. Valk is not balanced and is ruining conclave currently. Going into games against 2-4 valks shows the trend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalgearfox Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Energy in general is way too generous. DE honestly needs to limit energy and health spawns to two spots per map. "Energy running" is probably the best option to winning any conclave. ^^^ That S#&$ has got to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3DBelmont456 Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) lol You call Valkyr, Ember, and Daikyu overpowered but you don't explain why. I completely agree with this statement, calling Bows in conclave OP, as Underwhelmingly and incredibly hard as they are to use in warframe PvP, is like calling the sniper in halo 3 OP, or even the Bolt-action rifle in Battlefield, when everyone is using pew pew, unskilled spray and pray weapons and shotties... I actually wanna applaud people in Conclave when they manage to get a fully charged headshot on me when I'm moving around quick as that crap is hard as hell to pull off. Also Valkyre is perfectly balanced, she has one of the best overall survivabilities but the absolute worst skillset for PvP, and she can still be utterly destroyed by other frames skills and high DPS weapons... if anything more people should use valkyre so the noob skill spamming would stop. I have literally gotten double and triple kills just spamming rhino charge... Edited May 23, 2015 by R3DBelmont456 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aodan Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Pretty much this. Both abilities have pretty short ranges and pretty long cast times so they can die while casting it. Copter, this removes "running" away. A valk can easily copter into a group warcy and pick up easy kills. Add one shot bows and there is no escape. Valk is not balanced stop it with trying to reason the highest effective HP frame with a crazy good ability Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalgearfox Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 As to valks warcry, I was energy running and just popping it anytime I ran into someone. 0 skill. 3:1 kd ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aodan Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 (edited) I completely agree with this statement, calling Bows in conclave OP, as Underwhelmingly and incredibly hard as they are to use in warframe PvP, is like calling the sniper in halo 3 OP, or even the Bolt-action rifle in Battlefield, when everyone is using pew pew, unskilled spray and pray weapons and shotties... I actually wanna applaud people in Conclave when they manage to get a fully charged headshot on me when I'm moving around quick as that crap is hard as hell to pull off. Also Valkyre is perfectly balanced, she has one of the best overall survivabilities but the absolute worst skillset for PvP, and she can still be utterly destroyed by other frames skills and high DPS weapons... if anything more people should use valkyre so the noob skill spamming would stop. I have literally gotten double and triple kills just spamming rhino charge... Just like the tonkor and strun, you simply copter in and quickly shoot. Bows are not that hard to hit with in med-short range, on top of using a stupid tanky frame like frost or valk who can also slow, please.. Frost, Valk are not balanced at all for conclave, both have way to high effective health and both possess abilities that are game changers. If there was a competitive format of PvP or tournament on current PvP this is what you would see: Valks and Frosts + bows or strun wraiths Low skill cap on aim and tanky frames with bubble +1 slow, and Valks with warcry. Also, just cause valk has a lack luster one, that doesn't mean she should be able to tank 4 shots of a mk1 brat + a shock and still have 2-3 shots left of HP. ∆ this is almost always the situation I die in as a volt p against a valk. I'm strongly against ANY "tank" frames being in conclave. This is starting to feel like GW2s S#&$ty tank meta just in a tps where using a tank frame is the best option. Tank Frames + 1shot bows + way to available energy in maps = S#&$ty PvP balanced. I honestly believe DE needs a fresh eye on devs balancing PvP and they need to map out a streamline. Not just add each new weapon and unbalanced frames to PvP before really looking into how they affect meta. If I ran a tournament to keep it balanced: 1. No Daikyu 2. No Frost or Valkyr 3. No Kogake This is currently most of what I see running in conclave now a days Edited May 23, 2015 by Aodan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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