Nerf/remove Greedy Pull Please (With Ideas)

[torsoreaper]

     Nah, I hate rhino, and boltor prime. They make the game too easy. (I'd just like to take this chance to point out that I was never trying to get people to play my way, otherwise I would be making "remove rhino/boltor threads") Anyway, yes, I play in T4Ds a lot. Yes, I walk outside of the cryo area. You have to clear the way first, you can't just walk out into a hoard. o.0

 

You are absolutely trying to get people to "play your way".  What else would you call this entire thread of "I don't like how the game is played because it's not the way I like the game to be played".  Your solution isn't to play with friends or clanmates and avoid people who play it different.  You want to force people, who don't even know you, who don't play with you, to play "your way".

 

At the end of the day, nobody is forcing you to PUG.  When you set up a game and see someone is MAG, you are welcome to ask them to curtail their greedy pull or not use it at all.  if they refuse you are welcome to leave or disband the squad.  If you drop into a premade pug, prepare for the worst and that could mean ANYTHING, including AFK'ers, griefers, spammers, etc...

[MagPrime]

You are absolutely trying to get people to "play your way".  What else would you call this entire thread of "I don't like how the game is played because it's not the way I like the game to be played".  Your solution isn't to play with friends or clanmates and avoid people who play it different.  You want to force people, who don't even know you, who don't play with you, to play "your way".

 

At the end of the day, nobody is forcing you to PUG.  When you set up a game and see someone is MAG, you are welcome to ask them to curtail their greedy pull or not use it at all.  if they refuse you are welcome to leave or disband the squad.  If you drop into a premade pug, prepare for the worst and that could mean ANYTHING, including AFK'ers, griefers, spammers, etc...

And how is this suggestion not forcing OP to play your way?

 

The mechanic is broken, we want DE to fix it so everyone is happy, not just the few who use the augment.

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

I understand this my be difficult for some to comprehend, but if you don't like spam camping don't spam camp! For the love of the Lotus where is this mentality coming from? "DE, they're doing things I don't want them to do. Make them stop."

[MagPrime]

I understand this my be difficult for some to comprehend, but if you don't like spam camping don't spam camp! For the love of the Lotus where is this mentality coming from? "DE, they're doing things I don't want them to do. Make them stop."

It's probably just as difficult to understand that the issue is that it's a broken mechanic and needs to be fixed as well as constantly telling other people to avoid that playstyle is still telling other people how to play.

 

Hypocrisy much?

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

It's probably just as difficult to understand that the issue is that it's a broken mechanic and needs to be fixed as well as constantly telling other people to avoid that playstyle is still telling other people how to play.

 

Hypocrisy much?

You and I will have to agree to disagree on it being a broken mechanic, but I don't know how you got the "still telling other people how to play" hypocrisy part. There is a huge difference between me suggesting not to use something someone doesn't like and "removing" or nerfing an augment. 

 

 

In other words if you don't like steak order something else; don't write the owner asking them to remove it from the menu (or nerfing it until it's so well done it's chewy and tasteless (sorry about the analogy I must be hungry)

[MagPrime]

You and I will have to agree to disagree on it being a broken mechanic, but I don't know how you got the "still telling other people how to play" hypocrisy part. There is a huge difference between me suggesting not to use something someone doesn't like and "removing" or nerfing an augment. 

 

 

In other words if you don't like steak order something else; don't write the owner asking them to remove it from the menu (or nerfing it until it's so well done it's chewy and tasteless (sorry about the analogy I must be hungry)

Now I want steak.  ;~;  With broccoli...  I kind of dislike you right now.

 

 

Telling someone to stop playing a certain way, or requiring them to basically interview someone is telling them to change how they play.

 

Both parties have the right to play the way they want, I agree 100% on that.  But the spam camp situation is a broken mechanic.  Greedy Pull is primarily used to keep Mesa in perma-Peacekeeper.  Great "fun" for those two but if they don't communicate with the other two people, and those two don't want to do that, then they're forced to do something else or get tagged by the AFK timer.  

 

That's broken.  

 

I like the concept of Greedy Pull but I think it should either pull only for Mag or specifically Mods/Credits.  'Cause those things are iconically (tradionally?) what a greedy person would go for.

 

Ultimately, like others have said for many pages, Greedy Pull isn't the main issue, it's a symptom of the game being overly grindy and the "Put up or shut up" mentality that's going on doesn't help anyone.  It keeps the game from getting better and drives players away.

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

Now I want steak.  ;~;  With broccoli...  I kind of dislike you right now.

 

 

Telling someone to stop playing a certain way, or requiring them to basically interview someone is telling them to change how they play.

 

Both parties have the right to play the way they want, I agree 100% on that.  But the spam camp situation is a broken mechanic.  Greedy Pull is primarily used to keep Mesa in perma-Peacekeeper.  Great "fun" for those two but if they don't communicate with the other two people, and those two don't want to do that, then they're forced to do something else or get tagged by the AFK timer.  

 

That's broken.  

 

I like the concept of Greedy Pull but I think it should either pull only for Mag or specifically Mods/Credits.  'Cause those things are iconically (tradionally?) what a greedy person would go for.

 

Ultimately, like others have said for many pages, Greedy Pull isn't the main issue, it's a symptom of the game being overly grindy and the "Put up or shut up" mentality that's going on doesn't help anyone.  It keeps the game from getting better and drives players away.

While I see where you're coming from, and agree with you on many points, I still feel that greedy mag should stay the way it is. Is it the key to mindless farming? Yes. Is it broken? Not necessarily. It was created to pull all of the loots to mag and that's what it does. I think it was an oversight to allow Frames to gain energy while using an ability, one I imagine will be patched the same way restore plates were. That being said if I don't want a greedy mag in my t4 defense I'll say so and if I do I'll ask for one. No muss no fuss.

 

steak and asparagus is a match made in heaven

Edited June 5, 2015 by (PS4)B0XMAN517

[MagPrime]

While I see where you're coming from, and agree with you on many points, I still feel that greedy mag should stay the way it is. Is it the key to mindless farming? Yes. Is it broken? Not necessarily. It was created to pull all of the loots to mag and that's what it does. I think it was an oversight to allow Frames to gain energy while using an ability, one I imagine will be patched the same way restore plates were. That being said if I don't want a greedy mag in my t4 defense I'll say so and if I do I'll ask for one. No muss no fuss.

 

steak and asparagus is a match made in heaven

Oversight for sure!

 

stahp making me hungry.  ;~;

 

Add potatoes...

[torsoreaper]

It's probably just as difficult to understand that the issue is that it's a broken mechanic and needs to be fixed as well as constantly telling other people to avoid that playstyle is still telling other people how to play.

 

Hypocrisy much?

 

It is not hypocritical.  I might be "telling" someone how to play but you are "forcing" how someone should play.  There is a mile wide difference.  Here are the two scenarios:

 

A) Status quo (gpull stays) -  Some people can play the current way, some people can play your way.  People have options.

 

B) Your way (gpull is gone) - Everyone must play the way you think they should play.  There is only one option, your option.

 

I can't write this in any easier way to comprehend way.

[CapedBaldy]

All this debate and no one noted what the problem actually was?

 

COMBAT ESPECIALLY ABILITY USAGE IS TIED TO DROPS

[MagPrime]

It is not hypocritical.  I might be "telling" someone how to play but you are "forcing" how someone should play.  There is a mile wide difference.  Here are the two scenarios:

 

A) Status quo (gpull stays) -  Some people can play the current way, some people can play your way.  People have options.

 

B) Your way (gpull is gone) - Everyone must play the way you think they should play.  There is only one option, your option.

 

I can't write this in any easier way to comprehend way.

Actually, if you take the time to read my posts, you'd see I don't want it gone, just changed.

 

And it is hypocritical to tell someone to play a certain way and then condemn them for your perception of them doing the same thing.

 

"I don't like Greedy Pull, make it go away" + "If you don't like Greedy Pull, you go away." = hypocrisy.

 

With changing Greedy Pull, it helps balance the game better and stops the use of a flawed/broken mechanic.

[vaugahn]

A) Status quo (gpull stays) -  Some people can play the current way, some people can play your way.  People have options.

 

B) Your way (gpull is gone) - Everyone must play the way you think they should play.  There is only one option, your option.

 

Here's the thing, though: those two options aren't really any different.

 

People who say "play your own way" seem to be operating under the assumption that actions taken independently won't affect other people. This makes sense at fist glance, but if you dig a little deeper you'll find that we're all playing the same game.

 

Campers are the reason I have to deal with an AFK timer, even in solo mode. Spammers are the reason I get buried in a massive field of overlapping nullifier bubbles past 20 minutes in a T4 even in solo. Saying "everyone has the option to play their own way" is all well and good, but never forget that we're all playing the same game, regardless of what lobby you're in.

[TerrorofDeaths]

first play with clanmates 

and dont invite gmag players in squad and problem solved

[Liminal]

I agree with the general idea of the post, but:

Campers are the reason I have to deal with an AFK timer, even in solo mode. Spammers are the reason I get buried in a massive field of overlapping nullifier bubbles past 20 minutes in a T4 even in solo. 

And reward/drop mechanics + endless missions are the reason people camp.

 

Yet nobody sees past Greedy Pull apparently.

[torsoreaper]

Here's the thing, though: those two options aren't really any different.

 

People who say "play your own way" seem to be operating under the assumption that actions taken independently won't affect other people. This makes sense at fist glance, but if you dig a little deeper you'll find that we're all playing the same game.

 

Campers are the reason I have to deal with an AFK timer, even in solo mode. Spammers are the reason I get buried in a massive field of overlapping nullifier bubbles past 20 minutes in a T4 even in solo. Saying "everyone has the option to play their own way" is all well and good, but never forget that we're all playing the same game, regardless of what lobby you're in.

 

AFK Timer had nothing to do with campers and everything to do with people dropping into a mission, not participating, and trying to get rewards without contributing.

 

Nullifiers are not because of spammers but because of people who allegedly want a challenge but only want it to be harder to pick up loot and not actually making the game harder.

 

The only thing that people mesa/gpulling does is lower your cost of goods in the trade channel.

 

 

Actually, if you take the time to read my posts, you'd see I don't want it gone, just changed.

 

And it is hypocritical to tell someone to play a certain way and then condemn them for your perception of them doing the same thing.

 

"I don't like Greedy Pull, make it go away" + "If you don't like Greedy Pull, you go away." = hypocrisy.

 

With changing Greedy Pull, it helps balance the game better and stops the use of a flawed/broken mechanic.

 

 

No, i'm condemning you for trying to force your change on everyone.  My point is you can play exactly how you want and it doesn't bother me in the slightest.  In fact, we might even play a mission together and get along great and be friends assuming that day I brought my frost and not my gmag.  You keep saying I'm forcing this or that.  I'm not forcing anything.  I want the game to offer as much choice as possible and you want people to only have one choice - yours.  You remind me of Michael Bloomberg trying to ban large sodas or Felix Ortiz trying to ban salt.  You know what's best for everyone so we have no right to argue.  

 

I don't know why you can't just admit that but it's the plain truth.

[MagPrime]

-snip-

No, i'm condemning you for trying to force your change on everyone.  My point is you can play exactly how you want and it doesn't bother me in the slightest.  In fact, we might even play a mission together and get along great and be friends assuming that day I brought my frost and not my gmag.  You keep saying I'm forcing this or that.  I'm not forcing anything.  I want the game to offer as much choice as possible and you want people to only have one choice - yours.  You remind me of Michael Bloomberg trying to ban large sodas or Felix Ortiz trying to ban salt.  You know what's best for everyone so we have no right to argue.  

 

I don't know why you can't just admit that but it's the plain truth.

Actually, I can't play exactly the way I want.  

 

The way I want to play involves moving around to pick up loot and actually having the chance to use my abilities and weapons.  With the way things are now, I can't do that if Mesa and Greedy Pull are involved and I run the chance of getting yelled at by my teammates if I dare to even look like I might try killing something.  With your way, I'm required to put up or shut up if I don't want to spend my time screening my potential teammates and then waste my time trying to find a team that fits my needs.  

 

How, exactly, is that not forcing me to play the way you want me to?

 

All I want changed is how Greedy Pull affects loot, that's it.  Not removed.  

[torsoreaper]

Actually, I can't play exactly the way I want.  

 

The way I want to play involves moving around to pick up loot and actually having the chance to use my abilities and weapons.  With the way things are now, I can't do that if Mesa and Greedy Pull are involved and I run the chance of getting yelled at by my teammates if I dare to even look like I might try killing something.  With your way, I'm required to put up or shut up if I don't want to spend my time screening my potential teammates and then waste my time trying to find a team that fits my needs.  

 

How, exactly, is that not forcing me to play the way you want me to?

 

All I want changed is how Greedy Pull affects loot, that's it.  Not removed.  

 

LOL, nevermind.  Clearly the idea of "one way" and "options" is the same to you.

[MagPrime]

LOL, nevermind.  Clearly the idea of "one way" and "options" is the same to you.

Keeping a broken mechanism isn't "options"

 

Anyway, back on topic.

 

I think just having Greedy Pull affect mods and credits would be beneficial over completely removing it.  Or, like someone else pointed out in another thread, make it so that Ults aren't affected by Energy orbs while they're in use.  That'd limit the 'frames ability to perma-ult.

[TheBrsrkr]

Have it just affect Mag and be done with ir

.

[Onisa]

Actually, I can't play exactly the way I want.  

 

The way I want to play involves moving around to pick up loot and actually having the chance to use my abilities and weapons.  With the way things are now, I can't do that if Mesa and Greedy Pull are involved and I run the chance of getting yelled at by my teammates if I dare to even look like I might try killing something.  With your way, I'm required to put up or shut up if I don't want to spend my time screening my potential teammates and then waste my time trying to find a team that fits my needs.  

 

How, exactly, is that not forcing me to play the way you want me to?

 

All I want changed is how Greedy Pull affects loot, that's it.  Not removed.  

And yet you don't include half the frames that take that ability away on you list. Interesting.

[MagPrime]

And yet you don't include half the frames that take that ability away on you list. Interesting.

Take what away?

[Onisa]

Take what away?

Your ability to run around using your weapons and abilities on enemies. Off the top of my head the only frame that comes to mind that can't caulk block another tenno in some way is Trinity.

[drft240]

They should nerf the ability to make these spam threads. Like if the post includes anything about greedy pull you get warning points and it gets auto deleted. These are super annoying and wasting server space. I wish we could rate down posts.

[MagPrime]

Your ability to run around using your weapons and abilities on enemies. Off the top of my head the only frame that comes to mind that can't caulk block another tenno in some way is Trinity.

She can, when using...uh..Energy Vampire and the healing one?  That requires the target to stay alive.  No AoE abilities or weapons can be used unless you know it wont kill that target.

 

But no other 'frame caulk blocks (awesome phrase, btw) quite like Mesa + Greedy Pull.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

She can, when using...uh..Energy Vampire and the healing one? That requires the target to stay alive. No AoE abilities or weapons can be used unless you know it wont kill that target.

But no other 'frame caulk blocks (awesome phrase, btw) quite like Mesa + Greedy Pull.

 If the EV target dies it gives off energy impulse that scales with power strength which can then be used by NUKERS point in case it's not mag only that promotes this heck any frame can do this with a decent energy provider such as trinity and restores you PEOPLE just can't face the FACTS that if you want to play your way then go to a squad that DOESN'T HAVE PREDETERMINED FARM TACTICS IN PLACE cause you know what your not HELPING THEM AND THEY ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE FOR YOU BECAUSE THEY ALREADY HAVE A CERTAIN GAME TACTIC TO APPLY FOR THE SITUATION.

If you don't want that THEN DON'T GO TO EFFICIENT LOOT AND XP ZONES CAUSE EVERYONE WILL DO THE SAME TACTIC. Why you ask cause THIS GAME REQUIRES EFFICIENT FARMING METHODS with all the GRIND/FARMING it requires if not you can be happy to be LEFT OUT from all the rest who are doing things EFFICIENTLY. :) Do you think the DEVS will reduce the grind and costs of this game? cough cough AKJAGARA and WEAPONCEPTION, SYNDICATES, PRIME R10 mods MASTERY RANKS, ARCANES, CREDIT SINKS, WEAPONS WITH ABSOLUTELY NO POLARITY OR D POLARITY'S and possibly FOCUS later on you see this game is all about THE GRIND.

I reached where I am right now MR 19 all weapons maxed 200+ and potatoed and formad 4-5 times to their full potential several millions of credits and thousands of plat by DOING THINGS EFFICIENTLY if I didn't I'd still be stuck with not having EVERYTHING and for a GAME THAT DOESN'T HAVE END GAME all you can do IS HAVE EVERYTHING and PLAY THE WAY YOU WANT TO now the question is. If you remove these efficient farming methods HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE YOU TO REACH this especially for the newer players the answer is PROBABLY THEIR WHOLE LIFETIME :)

So with that being said If you don't like how a certain squad uses EFFICIENT FARMING TACTICS feel free to LEAVE THE DOOR IS OPEN ANYWAY. Go find your same like minded individuals that want to PLAY YOUR WAY and stop complaining about how CERTAIN SQUADS THAT EMPLOY EFFICIENT FARMING METHODS ARE RUINING YOUR GAMEPLAY because you are ruining theirs and this is addressed to the OP you say you think that removing Greedy Pull or nerfing it will improve the game here is me stating my own argument that it doesn't because like what others said you ARE JUST TREATING THE SYMPTOMS not the ACTUAL ROOT CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM just because you FEEL like it IS THE THING THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.

I play G mag I don't camp I run around shoot things use evasive manuevers and shield transference and flips and rolls and fracturing crush and then PULL WHEN ONLY THINGS ARE DEAD do you think all the GMAG players are spawn camping YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY MISTAKEN. Actually if you don't like that you are always free to not have a gmag player in your squad since IT DOESN'T SUIT YOUR PERSONAL GAME EXPERIENCE NEEDS let the rest of your team suffer by picking up loot/energy manually cause you PERSONALLY DON'T LIKE IT or let them drop 50-100 energy restores by wave 100 I'm sure they will THANK YOU FOR IT. :)

Edited June 6, 2015 by HARDCORE_DAVE