Nerf/remove Greedy Pull Please (With Ideas)

[Ironlixivium]

Whoa, take it easy there fella.

 

You have the option of not playing with gag mags. You do know that, right? And to blow all your steam on me is... wrong.

 

And you are a frustrated gamer. Take a chill pill before blowing your frustration on someone else. You either learn to cope with the gag mags or quit the game. What you want, ain't happening... or at least not soon.

 

     Sorry if I came off as angry with you. I was just irritated. Half of that message wasn't even directed  towards you, it was towards the people the original post you replied to was for. With that "ain't happening" part, idk, I beg to differ. I'm not actually an angry gamer, just the blatant insolence towards me is rather aggravating.

 

I use my energy restores with mesa and peacemaker all the time..I have to drop my dps some and time the pulses, but its totally viable to just stop channeling your ability for a half second when the energy pulse happens, then go right back in.

 

Eliminating greedy pull won't stop camping. It was done before it existed, only difference was that people would have to take a break in between waves of enemies to collect loot.

 

     You'll only be able to get 100 energy at a time from those though, since the energy after the first one will be blocked by peacemaker. Or you could time it right to leave peacemaker for the burst and use it again right after that. But then again, at that point, you're definitly not afking. XD

 

when playing a defense or survival you pretty much camp so no nerfing this would be a bad idea & limiting Gp to just mag's items would make mag a horrible frame again GP is really the only thing making mag a requested & viable frame.

The only complaint I can say about people using mag gp people need to us the power once every 3-5 minutes putting a power cool down would be the only thing I would ask for.

 

     Greedy pull is the only reason mag is endgame viable? Just a sec, let me get my clan buddies with their 40 forma lexs so we can laugh at this post together. Just kidding, lol, but seriously, shield polarize is one of the best (if not the best) damaging ability in the game. No way is being a loot servant mag's only purpose. 

 

Did I ever tell you the definition of insanity?

 

Insanity is doing the exact same thing over and over and over again and expecting stuff to change.

 

Nerf Greedy Pull? People will find another way with another frame.

Nerf another frame? People will find another way. Etc etc, the cycle continues and all we get as result is a lot of frames nerfed to S#&$ (just like during the whole "vivergate").

 

Does it make a difference in the big picture? No, people will always look for the most efficient way of farming.

 

It's inevitable in a game that's based on grind. The only way of changing it somehow would be altering foundations of the game and reduce the overall grindiness.

 

     I know the definition of insanity, thanks. What you're describing is actually not the same thing. It's slow progress. Do I expect a gpull nerf to remove ability spamming? No, of course not. Gmag is the #1 thing helping spamming though, not sure why I'm saying this, you already know it, that's why all of you are defending it so much. Honestly, why do you people (everyone against me) have a problem with actually playing the game?

 

I'm shocked at the hate towards camping by people that actually play camping modes.

It's like GMag is so good at it players lose the 1% of gameplay left in those gamemodes; but if what you are after is gameplay and not loot why are you even playing those modes?

 

The problem isn't Greedy Pull, it's the game's loot mechanics coupled with static endless missions.

 

     Wait, whut? You kinda made it sound like playing defense for fun is insane....I'm hurt. Yes, I do enjoy just playing this game...

 

I was just in another thread and someone suggested making it so that you couldn't pick up energy while in Peacemaker - at all, of any kind.  I think that would be a reasonable fix, not just for Mesa, but for all 'frames.  

 

This would prevent spamming ults and encourage a bit more forethought on when to use the abilities and/or bringing energy restores.

 

Yeah, but then you could just double tap 4 once in a while, wouldn't fix much. :/

 

Am I the only one seeing this?

 

LOL, good point.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Ironlixivium

[Ashnal]

       You'll only be able to get 100 energy at a time from those though, since the energy after the first one will be blocked by peacemaker. Or you could time it right to leave peacemaker for the burst and use it again right after that. But then again, at that point, you're definitly not afking. XD

 

You've misunderstood. It goes like this:

 

Toggle off Peacemaker

Drop Large Team Energy Restore, recieve 100 energy

Toggle Peacemaker back on, shoot for 6 seconds

Toggle off Peacemaker, receive second 100 energy pulse

Toggle Peacemaker back on, shoot for 6 seconds

Toggle off Peacemaker, receive third 100 energy pulse

Toggle Peacemaker back on, shoot for 6 seconds

Toggle off Peacemaker, recieve fourth 100 energy pulse

Toggle Peacemaker back on, repeat as needed

 

The better you are at timing it, the more DPS you can maintain while performing it. It also sustains you for over two minutes after you do this each time. You don't need energy vamp or greedy mag to pull this one off.

[Ironlixivium]

You've misunderstood. It goes like this:

 

Toggle off Peacemaker

Drop Large Team Energy Restore, recieve 100 energy

Toggle Peacemaker back on, shoot for 6 seconds

Toggle off Peacemaker, receive second 100 energy pulse

Toggle Peacemaker back on, shoot for 6 seconds

Toggle off Peacemaker, receive third 100 energy pulse

Toggle Peacemaker back on, shoot for 6 seconds

Toggle off Peacemaker, recieve fourth 100 energy pulse

Toggle Peacemaker back on, repeat as needed

 

The better you are at timing it, the more DPS you can maintain while performing it. It also sustains you for over two minutes after you do this each time. You don't need energy vamp or greedy mag to pull this one off.

 

o.0

I mentioned that, lol. that was the part about leaving peacemaker for the burst.

But doing this is okay for a few reasons:

1. You have to know your stuff, and time it right to do this

2. peacemaker resets every time you deactivate it, something this method suffers from while gmag spamming doesn't

3. You have to be actively paying attention. In other words, you can't leave a rock on your left mouse button. :/

 

Basically what you're describing IS playing the game, sitting there holding down your left mouse button while a gmag spams 1 isn't.

 

Or you could time it right to leave peacemaker for the burst and use it again right after that. But then again, at that point, you're definitly not afking. XD

Edited June 2, 2015 by Ironlixivium

[CY13ERPUNK]

simplest solution : make greedy pull require LoS to the drops/loot/treasure/mods/orbs/etc

 

viola

[Ironlixivium]

simplest solution : make greedy pull require LoS to the drops/loot/treasure/mods/orbs/etc

 

viola

 

      Eh, that wouldn't really fix it, most killed enemies are within LoS.

 

Although after reading most of the other comments, I must thank you for not being rude.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Ironlixivium

[Ashnal]

o.0

I mentioned that, lol. that was the part about leaving peacemaker for the burst.

But doing this is okay for a few reasons:

1. You have to know your stuff, and time it right to do this

2. peacemaker resets every time you deactivate it, something this method suffers from while gmag spamming doesn't

3. You have to be actively paying attention. In other words, you can't leave a rock on your left mouse button. :/

 

Basically what you're describing IS playing the game, sitting there holding down your left mouse button while a gmag spams 1 isn't.

Yep, playing the game, who would do that? I actually leave the pod between waves to collect energy too to save on restores. I usually don't actually need restores till wave 30 of a defense onward as energy drops between waves can sustain enough peacemaker. They're more of an emergency supply when I run out mid wave and cannot afford to collect energy or switch to primary.

 

There's also the other method, which is to just use your primary for 21 seconds during a restore:). Basically all Greedy Mag does is enable super lazy players who want to watch TV/Movies while playing and not pay attention at all. That, and botters.

[Ironlixivium]

Yep, playing the game, who would do that? I actually leave the pod between waves to collect energy too to save on restores. I usually don't actually need restores till wave 30 of a defense onward as energy drops between waves can sustain enough peacemaker. They're more of an emergency supply when I run out mid wave and cannot afford to collect energy or switch to primary.

 

There's also the other method, which is to just use your primary for 21 seconds during a restore:). Basically all Greedy Mag does is enable super lazy players who want to watch TV/Movies while playing and not pay attention at all. That, and botters.

 

     Exactly, thank you.

[Liminal]

   Wait, whut? You kinda made it sound like playing defense for fun is insane....I'm hurt. Yes, I do enjoy just playing this game...

No I didn't. Don't put words in my mouth. I said it's the mode with the "less playability".

And you decided to pick on GMag even though Mesa is definitely worse in the "remove gameplay" department.

 

My point was simply what has been said many times before: this is a symptom and changing Greedy Pull won't fix the real issue.

[Ironlixivium]

No I didn't. Don't put words in my mouth. I said it's the mode with the "less playability".

And you decided to pick on GMag even though Mesa is definitely worse in the "remove gameplay" department.

 

My point was simply what has been said many times before: this is a symptom and changing Greedy Pull won't fix the real issue.

 

I'm shocked at the hate towards camping by people that actually play camping modes.

It's like GMag is so good at it players lose the 1% of gameplay left in those gamemodes; but if what you are after is gameplay and not loot why are you even playing those modes?

 

The problem isn't Greedy Pull, it's the game's loot mechanics coupled with static endless missions.

 

     I didn't put any words in your mouth, I just inferred it from the statement "if what you are after is gameplay and not loot why are you even playing those modes?". Also, I know it's a symptom, but it's the 105° degree fever to our serious illness; it should be treated regardless. Also this "illness" isn't exactly a cakewalk to treat... :/ So for now, I think this would be the best action.

[Liminal]

     I didn't put any words in your mouth, I just inferred it from the statement "if what you are after is gameplay and not loot why are you even playing those modes?".

Me stating that defense has less gameplay than most other mods isn't an attack on anyone. I didn't make a judgement, I made a question: "why bother with an objectively more plain mode if you're not farming?" It seems you're looking for fun in the place where you're least likely to find it. Nothing wrong with that, but you can't be surprised people would use Greedy Pull there.

 

It's somewhat funny that you get offended at that comment, yet you want others to stop playing the way they want to.

 

 

Also, I know it's a symptom, but it's the 105° degree fever to our serious illness; it should be treated regardless. Also this "illness" isn't exactly a cakewalk to treat... :/ So for now, I think this would be the best action.

And I disagree because it's too arbitrary. Unless we remove Pilfering Swarm, Snow Globe, Desecrate, Vortex and Peacemaker if we really want to "treat" this symptom. Hell, remove every power anyone would consider to spam to replace the actions of shooting and moving around.

 

Also, the analogy is flawed: you treat the fever because it can kill you, leaving GMag alone until the underlying issue is addressed doesn't kill Warframe.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

And remove the carrier as well while you're at it. And don't forget the loot. Delete the loot.

You still have to ->>kill enemys. Even with greedy. Camping isn't much of a problem in the game. Nor does anyone force you to do so. Nor became camping a thing since gmag found her place in the game.

Dafuk is wrong with having convinient auguments?

[Ironlixivium]

Me stating that defense has less gameplay than most other mods isn't an attack on anyone. I didn't make a judgement, I made a question: "why bother with an objectively more plain mode if you're not farming?" It seems you're looking for fun in the place where you're least likely to find it. Nothing wrong with that, but you can't be surprised people would use Greedy Pull there.

 

It's somewhat funny that you get offended at that comment, yet you want others to stop playing the way they want to.

 

 

And I disagree because it's too arbitrary. Unless we remove Pilfering Swarm, Snow Globe, Desecrate, Vortex and Peacemaker if we really want to "treat" this symptom. Hell, remove every power anyone would consider to spam to replace the actions of shooting and moving around.

 

Also, the analogy is flawed: you treat the fever because it can kill you, leaving GMag alone until the underlying issue is addressed doesn't kill Warframe.

 

     Hey come on, I wasn't really all that offended; it's a common opinion that defense missions are lame (I'm not implying that you share this opinion, but I, at first, inferred it). 

 

     The problem with this is that It's not just camping in general I'm attempting to fix, it's spam-camping. This is when you sit in one spot and press 4 while your gmag spams 1. I have no problem with "camping" that's done by sitting around shooting stuff from behind cover, but the problem with this whole "you just want us to play your way" thing is that what I'm trying to fix isn't playing in the first place (by DE's standards). Not to mention that I'm only trying to improve the game, not push other players around. 

 

     I know there's a general hate towards nerf threads, but there's no reason to use all this sarcasm. I'm not out to make the game not fun, and I'm not trying to get people to just play my way. The reason these other abilities are ok (that I've stated so many times now) is that they don't ALLOW the other abilities to be spammed until your show ends and you have to stop holding left click/spamming 4 for a sec to select the next episode. :/

 

     Also, I disagree entirely with your last sentence. I do think it's killing warframe, but discussing this would be about as productive as banging hammers together.

 

And remove the carrier as well while you're at it. And don't forget the loot. Delete the loot.

You still have to ->>kill enemys. Even with greedy. Camping isn't much of a problem in the game. Nor does anyone force you to do so. Nor became camping a thing since gmag found her place in the game.

Dafuk is wrong with having convinient auguments?

 

     Please stop the sarcasm. I get it, you hate nerfs.

 

Kill enemies...with the abilities that are being powered without you needing to do anything else... :/

Also, again, not camping, spam camping. Sorry for the misunderstanding, I should probably change that.

 

     It's too convenient. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being irritatingly inconvenient and 10 being playing the game for you, greedy pull can register as a 9 on the common spammer, this is a problem.

 

P.S. If you have an alternate suggestion to hurt spam campers without normal campers, this is the place! :D

Edited June 2, 2015 by Ironlixivium

[DeMeritus]

Sounds like you should specify that there are to be no greedy pull mags in your runs.

 

Problem solved.

 

As far as I can tell, greedy pull made mag actually become a desirable frame again, instead of laying around collecting dust or getting sold off as soon as it hit 30.

 

I also suggest you avoid playing with hydroids, excaliburs, trinities, lokis, mesas, frosts, vaubans, valkyrs, chromas, novas, and any other warframe with support abilities/builds.

 

Also avoid using or having anyone along using a kubrow or sentinel.

 

And make sure to NOT stay next to the cryopods or consoles in defense or mobile defense missions.  Because that's camping.

 

This will improve your gaming experience.

Edited June 2, 2015 by DeMeritus

[MagPrime]

I think this thread has hit the length where no one is bothering to read the previous comments.

[DeMeritus]

I think this thread has hit the length where no one is bothering to read the previous comments.

 

Pretty much.

[Ironlixivium]

-snip-

 

I clarified some stuff on the OP, I should probably add what separates gmag from all the other stuff you sarcastically listed off.

 

I think this thread has hit the length where no one is bothering to read the previous comments.

 

Yup. Kinda a problem...so I updated the OP :D

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Hey come on, I wasn't really all that offended; it's a common opinion that defense missions are lame (I'm not implying that you share this opinion, but I, at first, inferred it).

The problem with this is that It's not just camping in general I'm attempting to fix, it's spam-camping. This is when you sit in one spot and press 4 while your gmag spams 1. I have no problem with "camping" that's done by sitting around shooting stuff from behind cover, but the problem with this whole "you just want us to play your way" thing is that what I'm trying to fix isn't playing in the first place (by DE's standards). Not to mention that I'm only trying to improve the game, not push other players around.

I know there's a general hate towards nerf threads, but there's no reason to use all this sarcasm. I'm not out to make the game not fun, and I'm not trying to get people to just play my way. The reason these other abilities are ok (that I've stated so many times now) is that they don't ALLOW the other abilities to be spammed until your show ends and you have to stop holding left click/spamming 4 for a sec to select the next episode. :/

Also, I disagree entirely with your last sentence. I do think it's killing warframe, but discussing this would be about as productive as banging hammers together.

Please stop the sarcasm. I get it, you hate nerfs.

Kill enemies...with the abilities that are being powered without you needing to do anything else... :/

Also, again, not camping, spam camping. Sorry for the misunderstanding, I should probably change that.

It's too convenient. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being irritatingly inconvenient and 10 being playing the game for you, greedy pull can register as a 9 on the common spammer, this is a problem.

P.S. If you have an alternate suggestion to hurt spam campers without normal campers, this is the place! :D

...mag is a spammy frame. Wanna blame her for that? She easily the has CC potential of a banshee, all of her abilitys have a short duration-they are meant to be spammed to some extend. I usually don't consta spam with her. Fire a pull, shoot, set a globe, pull, shoot aso.

I know what you mean but seriously. The game has a mod system that far surpasses easy endgame content and starts to be eather important or useless on higher waves.

Nooby players that do nothing but spam or farm till w20-40 are a bigger issue then anything in the game is imo. And greedy is easily replaced with energy packs if you still wanna walk that road.

[Liminal]

I clarified some stuff on the OP, I should probably add what separates gmag from all the other stuff you sarcastically listed off.

The only problem is that your classification of what is acceptable and what isn't is completely arbitrary.

While you may feel it's wrong to stand in one spot while loot comes your way, other people (myself included) consider (for example) Mesa killing every single enemy in the map before anybody else can shoot them way worse. My point: YMMV.

[Ironlixivium]

The only problem is that your classification of what is acceptable and what isn't is completely arbitrary.

While you may feel it's wrong to stand in one spot while loot comes your way, other people (myself included) consider (for example) Mesa killing every single enemy in the map before anybody else can shoot them way worse. My point: YMMV.

 

     Actually, DE has stated that this isn't playing the game, and I agree with them. It isn't. You're just pressing a button.

[MagPrime]

     Actually, DE has stated that this isn't playing the game, and I agree with them. It isn't. You're just pressing a button.

Well, not only that but the Greedy Pull Mesa combo is pretty game breaking right now.  Normally the damage of an ult is compensated by it's duration, but in this situation that check is obliterated.  

 

I think removing the ability to gain energy from energy drops while using your ult would solve a lot of these issues.  

[Ironlixivium]

Well, not only that but the Greedy Pull Mesa combo is pretty game breaking right now.  Normally the damage of an ult is compensated by it's duration, but in this situation that check is obliterated.  

 

I think removing the ability to gain energy from energy drops while using your ult would solve a lot of these issues.  

 

     I agree with the first part, but the second would only mean you have to press 4 every time your ult energy depletes to grab the loot pile your greedy slave mag put there.

[MagPrime]

     I agree with the first part, but the second would only mean you have to press 4 every time your ult energy depletes to grab the loot pile your greedy slave mag put there.

True, but it would make it so they can't sit in their ult endlessly.  They'll have to actually pay attention a bit more.

 

It's not the perfect solution but it is a solution.

 

/shrug

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

The only problem is that your classification of what is acceptable and what isn't is completely arbitrary.

While you may feel it's wrong to stand in one spot while loot comes your way, other people (myself included) consider (for example) Mesa killing every single enemy in the map before anybody else can shoot them way worse. My point: YMMV.

Till wave 20-40. Then she's just dealing 2-4k shots for high energy cost while sacrificing ALL of her strong defensive abilitys.

Ya know, it allways comes down to noobs dominating the endgame. Allways.

Why do we allways have to talk about stuff noobs do to farm stuff. We could instead compare the endgame here to other mmo's/mmorpg's where a big boss with a certain strategy follows after something equivalent to the full endgame in here.

Ever played WoW? Ever heard someone in there complain about the fact that mages bomb bettet then rogues? About casters casting?

[Liminal]

     Actually, DE has stated that this isn't playing the game, and I agree with them. It isn't. You're just pressing a button.

I'm pretty sure they don't consider standing around only to go pick up loot while Mesa kills every single enemy "playing the game" either.

 

Your classification of what's worse is still entirely subjective. GMag is one of many "mindless" frames for defense.

 

 

Till wave 20-40. Then she's just dealing 2-4k shots for high energy cost while sacrificing ALL of her strong defensive abilitys.

Ya know, it allways comes down to noobs dominating the endgame. Allways.

Why do we allways have to talk about stuff noobs do to farm stuff. We could instead compare the endgame here to other mmo's/mmorpg's where a big boss with a certain strategy follows after something equivalent to the full endgame in here.

Ever played WoW? Ever heard someone in there complain about the fact that mages bomb bettet then rogues? About casters casting?

Did you know there's no real endgame in WF? There's only pointless bigger numbers. Going past rotation C is completely pointless, especially when farming resources.

 

The truth about WF is that going against ridiculous high level enemies is only good for bragging ... aka: e-peen contests.

Edited June 2, 2015 by The_Doc

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

The game still sells as beta and we may actually reach tactical gameplay instead of tactical grind at some point.

But in the meantime: who cares? If you don't like it, host and play different.