Banshee Deserves More Armour

[rroorr]

Banshee is a powerful support frame who I feel suffers a lot from her abysmal armour rating of 15 - she was promoted to be a sniper on release, which coupled with her insane damage potential of Sonar might explain her pathetic armour. However, in real game scenarios, it is rarely possible against anything but Infested to hide behind your allies to avoid all damage and leads to random oneshot deaths from stray Bombard rockets and Nullifier shots at levels where other frames just shrug it off. What also doesn't help is that Banshee's ability to avoid damage is limited mostly to movement - her CC is sub-par and very temporary outside of her 4, which is perhaps the most team based ability in the game that forces her to stay immobile and, without proper placement or teamplay, become an easy target for the aforementioned Bombards and Nullifiers. Her armour rating is absolutely unjustified, even the god of CC Vauban has that of 50. I would like to see it buffed akin to Ember's.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

no, any frame that can potentially do this amount of damage does not need an armor boost.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Eureka.seveN

[AsahiOka]

Idk, I don't die with primed flow + Quick Thinking... It's enough. 

 

Oh and:

 

 

no, any frame that can potentially do this amount of damage does not need an armor boost.

 

This. 

[KingIzek]

Hm, sorry aside from the pic above, I don't think it's necessary. She's pure glass cannon with Sonar and Resonance (since they stack). Maybe a speed boost?

 

Also she has amazing CC with sonic boom. And silence is really good as well since it temporarily stuns. If anything that stun affect should be increased by duration (nothing insane maybe like 100% at max). Someone brought it up before in a really good banshee thread.

[Richtor2415]

Yeah, it's called a Glass Canon Warframe. 

[(PSN)Artennos]

I used to think like that but now I don't feel any difference between frames with 15, 50, 65 armor anyway, lol. Plus she does so much damage and has good power pool to support quck thinking without worries :)

[Paradoxbomb]

I think Banshee being on the lower end of the spectrum with regard to DR is fair considering how strong she potentially is. Although an indirect buff to her survivability I wouldn't mind seeing would be adding an accuracy/reaction time reduction to enemies under the influence of Silence. That would vastly improve its usability beyond the initial stun as well as keep some damage off of Banshee so long as she stays mobile.

[rroorr]

no, any frame that can potentially do this amount of damage does not need an armor boost.

Too bad that this mob would have died if you hit it for 100. It's as if overkills achieve anything!

Outside of myself I've seen maybe 5 other Banshees in public games, clearly she's fine as she is and doesn't deserve even a minor second look.

People don't play Banshee outside of super long games where everyone gets oneshot anyway because better CC is always more useful. I am not proposing anything drastic, just a small armour increase to help avoid ohko annoyances on builds that do not require ridiculous investments like Primed Flow.

Edited June 1, 2015 by rroorr

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

Too bad that this mob would have died if you hit it for 100. It's as if overkills achieve anything!

Outside of myself I've seen maybe 5 other Banshees in public games, clearly she's fine as she is and doesn't deserve even a minor second look.

All because a warframe is not popular or you do not see it in public games does not mean that she deserves a second look.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Eureka.seveN

[TwelfthAngel]

Volt be like....

[papatou15]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8_YBDd7dLA

 

Just take a look at that

[rroorr]

All because a warframe is not popular or you do not see it in public games does not mean that she deserves a second look.

Do you really not see a problem in half of the available warframes being heavily underused?

Mesa is absolutely monstrous in terms of damage and she has a very potent damage reduction ability to top it off, yet to ask for Banshee to have an armour rating more akin to the other "glass cannon" frames is apparently a ridiculous notion. I am not asking for god mode, just a small quality of life buff you wouldn't even notice in high level play.

[--F--NerevarCM]

Do you really not see a problem in half of the available warframes being heavily underused?

Mesa is absolutely monstrous in terms of damage and she has a very potent damage reduction ability to top it off, yet to ask for Banshee to have an armour rating more akin to the other "glass cannon" frames is apparently a ridiculous notion. I am not asking for god mode, just a small quality of life buff you wouldn't even notice in high level play.

 

Using your reasoning, Rhino is the perfect frame because its used in 75% of public matches, and everyone knows that Rhino is a completely obsolete tanker frame

[rroorr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8_YBDd7dLA

 

Just take a look at that

Yes, posting videos about overkills on useless trash mobs sure helps in the discussion about survivability.

 

Using your reasoning, Rhino is the perfect frame because its used in 75% of public matches, and everyone knows that Rhino is a completely obsolete tanker frame

Rhino is great in the starchart missions and drops off later, still, he offers very solid CC and Roar is underrated. Banshee is of little use in the starchart levels because things die just as easily without Sonar and then she is still underused in high level play, outside of organized parties. Yes, I am holding onto my reasoning, thank you very much.

[papatou15]

Yes, posting videos about overkills on useless trash mobs sure helps in the discussion about survivability.

 

I'm just saying that a frame that can deal such high damage doesn't need any armor buff, she's a support, not a tank. She's a glass cannon, nothing more or less.

[rroorr]

I'm just saying that a frame that can deal such high damage doesn't need any armor buff, she's a support, not a tank. She's a glass cannon, nothing more or less.

And I agree with you, but I also do not think any warframe should be oneshot by Bombards in t4 extermination missions without an expensive Quick Thinking build. 50-75 armour rating wouldn't make her overpowered but still help with that.

[papatou15]

And I agree with you, but I also do not think any warframe should be oneshot by Bombards in t4 extermination missions without an expensive Quick Thinking build. 50-75 armour rating wouldn't make her overpowered but still help with that.

 

Idk why your Banshee gets one-shotted in a T4 by a Bombard... My Mirage lvl 11 with only Redirection Rank 8 without any powers activated only gets her shield eaten (412 of shields)

[rroorr]

Idk why your Banshee gets one-shotted in a T4 by a Bombard... My Mirage lvl 11 with only Redirection Rank 8 without any powers activated only gets her shield eaten (412 of shields)

I have some bad oneshot related memories from soloing non-endless t4 missions with Banshee, unless some nerfs happened to those enemies from that time, I don't know . Mirage has AR of 65 by the way, the numbers below 100 really do make a difference.

 

On a different note, I need to stop hitting that green upvote button every time I try to reply. It's too shiny.

[papatou15]

I have some bad oneshot related memories from soloing non-endless t4 missions with Banshee, unless some nerfs happened to those enemies from that time, I don't know . Mirage has AR of 65 by the way, the numbers below 100 really do make a difference.

 

On a different note, I need to stop hitting that green upvote button every time I try to reply. It's too shiny.

 

Ohhhhh don't hide it, you know you approve my post XD

 

But yeah... I've never had any problem with Banshee in T4, and she only have Redirection Rank 8 and Vitality Max Rank

[shut]

I used to think like that but now I don't feel any difference between frames with 15, 50, 65 armor anyway, lol.

Right?!

I keep seeing a bunch of threads about how ______'s armor is too low and needs to be bumped up from 15 to 65 or something like that. Like, a change from a ~5% damage reduction to a whopping ~17% damage reduction. Does that really do anything for typical frames in lategame when the only enemies whose damage we actually care about can kill you in one or two hits?

Considering that we all try to avoid damage anyways, does anyone really notice the difference? Aside from true tanks like Valkyr and Chroma (and other armor-involved frames like Frost), I never pay attention to my frame's armor at all because the difference between having 1 armor and 100 armor is, in actual gameplay, piddly at best. Armor boosts like these give a bit more wiggle room against common fodder enemies, but it means diddly squat against Nullifiers and Bombards whose damage comes in chunks too large for a 20-25% boost in effective health to matter.

OT:

Yeah, Banshee doesn't need more tankiness since she's designed as a glass cannon of sorts (although watch as DE goes full-on power creep with the Prime version and makes it even more unnecessarily burly than Nova's).

[sammun]

I feel she's pretty damn unpopular.

Nova outclasses her when it comes to damage amp, .

loki is king of stealth, ash invis, while worse than loki's, is still decent, and the augment is amazing. So both of them beat her on stealth.

Nova,saryn, and mesa, are far better at nuking.

Rhino, slow nova, vauban and frost outclass her on CC.

Her stats ain't amazing, except maybe energy.

SHe needs a LOT of love, and I believe armor would be a good start

[Sziklamester]

All 15 armored frames should given more armor at least 50. Those minor survivability addition not ruin anything and just saying the oberon (YES ME) and ember got her armor and stat buffs and they are fine now. Also nyx could have be 65 armor because she is  counterpair of excall and they are the same design. There is no reason also that volt have just only 15 armor when he looks more armored than mag for an example. 

 

This not mean this will improve the popularity but improve the survivability and that's need any time.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Sziklamester

[taiiat]

Banshee has 4 Ability Buttons.

use all of them. your Survivability drastically increases then.

and marginally higher Armor doesn't save you from death. it helps some... but the difference isn't as large as you suggest.

- - - - -

other Warframes that have press button invulnerabilities are a problem, not that there's Warframes without. Abilities that are largely just exist to make you nigh invulnerable are Skill less, bland, and have little tactical use because you might as well just always be nigh invulnerable.

-snip-

i think the funniest part about that clip when he made it, is that he's actually 63 Damage short of the cap. :)

the numbers below 100 really do make a difference.

not really.

taking ~10% less Damage is obviously a difference - but it isn't going to save your life. things that deal a lot of Damage will still instantly Kill you. Enemies that deal very little Damage will still deal about the same amount of Damage, maybe -1 Damage.

the fact that i consider that 50 Armor should be the minimum because any lower might as well be 0 is a different story. because that's in general, not just one Warframe.

[Noble_Cactus]

I feel she's pretty damn unpopular.

Nova outclasses her when it comes to damage amp, .

loki is king of stealth, ash invis, while worse than loki's, is still decent, and the augment is amazing. So both of them beat her on stealth.

Nova,saryn, and mesa, are far better at nuking.

Rhino, slow nova, vauban and frost outclass her on CC.

Her stats ain't amazing, except maybe energy.

SHe needs a LOT of love, and I believe armor would be a good start

 

Look at it this way.

 

People don't play Banshee because she's not tanky. They don't play her because her skills require a little extra thinking and aim to use, and because a lot of people think she looks ugly.

 

If armor had anything to do with her unpopularity, then people wouldn't have played Volt or Nyx before they got primed. But they did.

 

In short, armor needs to be reworked as a separate issue.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Noble_Cactus

[rroorr]

Banshee has 4 Ability Buttons.

use all of them. your Survivability drastically increases then.

I could have stopped reading here as I don't need being told that water is wet, but I do suppose it wasn't completely obvious about it in my posts: I mentioned dying to Bombards and Nullifiers. What do these have in common? Yes, bingo, extremely long range attacks that do a lot of damage! Banshee's bootleg reverse Pull that is Sonic Boom (augument aside) and Silence really help when you can use them, but their range is too low to help you against that long range spam that you don't always see coming. Furthermore, the damage these enemies do is much greater than normal trash mobs - yes, having 50 AR against trash is not much of a difference at all. However, cut 15% from 600 damage a theoritical scary mob could do and suddenly you have ~70 hp more than you would with just 15 AR - still not much, but enough to save your life in some situations as a squishy frame.
Also if you believe that no frame should have AR lower than 50, you could have showed your support and shifted the focus on the other frames with the same issue instead of treating me like a fool and stating the obvious. I made this thread specifically about Banshee because the other frames with 15 AR have more means to defend themselves - Volt has his shield and long range 1 stuns, Nyx has Chaos, Mind Control and Absorb, Trinity heals like mad and has Link, Zephyr has Turbulence and amazing mobility and other stats. I believe Banshee deserves more love amongst all these obscenely powerful warframes we have nowadays and think increasing AR would be a good first step, didn't think it would spark such controversy.

I didn't mention her 4 because I really don't like it, I think it doesn't fit her kit but that's a different story.
 

 

 

Look at it this way.

 

People don't play Banshee because she's not tanky. They don't play her because her skills require a little extra thinking and aim to use, and because a lot of people think she looks ugly.

 

If armor had anything to do with her unpopularity, then people wouldn't have played Volt or Nyx before they got primed. But they did.

 

In short, armor needs to be reworked as a separate issue.

I think Banshee looks great, just put that Reverb helmet on.

Edited June 1, 2015 by rroorr