Old Conclaves Vs. New Conclaves Chp.1 Overall

[Nighttide77]

As a 1.0 vet, it was a rule of honor that we all followed. It was nothing written down or anything, it was simply a rule that out of respect and dignity followed.

 

-no damage abilities

-mostly no explosives

-no cheap mods such as QTR and AP 

-no staggering

-no knockdown

-no flaming

-mostly no 100% blocking or 100% meleeing

-and the most difficult to enforce: no revives or downkills

 

This was the 1.0 code of honor that we players had and most of us followed. We had a stable, non-toxic community going at full blossom. Now in 2.0? well now in 2.0 thats all broken because of the way DE put it. And I truly say broken because it's broken. 

 

Soz...basically just skilled shooting and parkour?  If that's the case, I can see why most of the 1.0 vets see 2.0 as a problem.  2.0 is primarily powers + shooting, CC's and plenty of blocking/melee (but only with weapons that seem to work).

 

CC seems to frustrate most people, but I think that's a human psychological thing, and a 3rd person view thing.  No one likes to see their character pretty much get put into a helpless situation.  Once your character is CC'd, it's easy to get frustrated because the player has no way to break the CC.  Other games have ways to handle that, such as mashing a button or mashing directional movement keys to decrease the duration of the CC.  Warframe would do well to implement counter-CC measures for the players.

[.Re-light.]

Soz...basically just skilled shooting and parkour?  If that's the case, I can see why most of the 1.0 vets see 2.0 as a problem.  2.0 is primarily powers + shooting, CC's and plenty of blocking/melee (but only with weapons that seem to work).

 

CC seems to frustrate most people, but I think that's a human psychological thing, and a 3rd person view thing.  No one likes to see their character pretty much get put into a helpless situation.  Once your character is CC'd, it's easy to get frustrated because the player has no way to break the CC.  Other games have ways to handle that, such as mashing a button or mashing directional movement keys to decrease the duration of the CC.  Warframe would do well to implement counter-CC measures for the players.

The problem is in abilities (being comparable or way more efficient then weapons, in PvP 1.0 you had to choose, if you gonna be naughty, that meant usually that you are super easy to kill), the problem is also in the fact that with the ttk being what it is now, there is 1 (ONE) weapon out of the bunch where skill will matter . The problem is that it is slow and boring. The problem is that they made the most fun part of Warframe for both "honor bound" Tennos and the others into another grind. In 1.0 you would feel adrenaline, anger, happiness, hate. In the new one, I don't feel any of it.

  I spent half my time playing WF, doing conclaves, other half, forming weapons that I want to try out there. I would start my own game or join friends and forget the world.

 

 Why did they need to utterly kill the old conclave? We finally get a dedicated PvP team. They realize that damage nerf was severe, and just limited the choice of weapons, I am thinking, yeah, we got the good guys. They think, they play, they know. Then we get this.. abomination.

 

     I can't literally force myself to play PvP anymore.

 

I find soloing T4 or joining random PvE games more fun. After 2 weeks, I still haven't been able to buy a single new pvp mod, just to quiet the OCD to have all mods. 70k to reach max rank when 15 minutes of best play with a booster gives you about 1-1.5k??? Really DE?

[TheStag]

Oh man, glad people are still fighting for old conclave...we just need more people to participate in our mission to make DE add pvp 1.0.

 

I've been playing conclave 1.0 for a long time....this are all the things I've enjoyed in the past..

 

-Calling players N00BS, who use explosives or other unbalanced items, (hehe)

-Challenging friends in race to 10 kills.

-Testing weapons and theories.

-Clan tournaments

-Recording and uploading in youtube.

-Being apart of Six Feet Under.

-Improving your KD.

-Flying across the map. (Never forget Tipedo <3)

-Teaming up with friends to beat n00bs.

-Reviving or getting revived. (An AWESOME feeling)

-Practicing. 

-Making an color scheme to show off in conclave.

-Coming across players who view me as their rolemodel. :)

-The speed. ('nuff said.)

-Anddd taking screenshots of players who accuse me of aimbot. :D good old days. 

 

To the players who read this. Help us revive PvP 1.0.

#SFU

Shoutout to those amazing "aimbot" players. I am just a distraction for those guys while they shoot everyone. c:

I played Conclave 1.0 when it first came out, before all of the honor rules and such. At that time, it was pure chaos. It was more of out smarting the enemy instead of being a better player. Often times it still is, but as conclave 1.0 evolved, it turned into a pure skill test from my perspective. That is when I faded out of playing (because I suck). I miss conclave 1.0 because it always seemed to be more fun than the current conclave is.

[-InV-igo95862]

Conclave was not a representation of PvP 1.0 because almost no one played it. The real PvP 1.0 was Dark Sector conflict and it was incredibly broken.

[.Re-light.]

It would be interesting to see how many people would play the new one if there was nothing to gain. New one is a lot easier to get into, but it's pass time in character, while old one felt like endgame to me. No use in fighting windmills, I don't exactly try to get the old one back because I know it's not coming back.. But every now and then I drunk post...

 

   Long time Fruit..

[DrBorris]

Just let us build a room in to Dojo where we can go and select which old Conclave tile (and maybe throw in the new ones?) you would like to go to (Would not generate inside the Dojo) and also give full control over what is and is not allowed (abilities, weapons, mods). No rewards, just bragging rights and more importantly "fun". Just imagine a room the size of one of the large gardens with a bunch of panels where you can select all of your rules and the tube things where you would respawn in the Conclave match (like Simaris's stuff).

 

Maybe that could be a room added to a relay also/instead? So you do not have to be in the same clan/get an invite to participate in the Old Conclave.

[S.T.M.P.D]

I think putting in something Elimination-style is probably going to happen, so - I think 1v1 duels of some sort will return. It's too much of a fundamental of multiplayer shooter gamemodes not to.

That being said - when your game is in a state that players rely on an honor code to make it work, it needs to be fixed. The new PvP might have problems, but a lot of those problems are more tied into larger problems in the game itself (movement, energy) and not the actual system. I get that people liked the old Conclave as a skill-based, cleverness based endgame - but I think DE knows Dark Sectors can fill that role as well, and they'll tweak things around that and care more about vet feedback and not scrub feedback.

At least with the new Conclave, I actually get kills. At least it's something I actively enjoy taking part in, just picking up and playing. If we can have a gamemode that fulfills what vets want, more power to em.

But do not say that the old version was better. That's a blatant lie.

[ArbitUHM]

...

Yes, the old conclave felt more like Warframe in my opinion, but that means that we should try to improve the current conclave to make it more like it. 

...

How is it the version that excludes explosives, powers, and melee fighting feels more like Warframe than the version that has those things? At least two of those elements (Warframe powers and melee fighting) would be considered integral to the game by most people, I would think.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

But do not say that the old version was better. That's a blatant lie.

So baiscally because you are getting kills the newer pvp 2.0 is better?

Because people who did not have as good gun skill who can magically get kills in 2.0. That makes it better?

 

Saying the old version was not better. Now thats a blatant lie.

 

 

 

The old version (with the honor code) had everything that the perfect MP game had

 

A challenging Skill Curve "Easy to learn hard to master"

 

A unique experience giht movment with low ttk and aim based gameplay

 

A long lasting fair experience (People have been playing europa, the same map , everyday, for like 2 years)

 

It was competitive and fun

 

 

 

Conclave 2.0

 

Does not have a skill curve, as powers and combos deliver easy kills

 

The game is lost planet but with parkour

 

Its no where near fair, nor fun

 

And definetely not competitive

 

 

This is what happens whan u make things more accessible, things go bad.

 

 

All that DE had to do was implement the honor code into actual code, and with the aid of the community find a means to teach players how to play the game. It would have been less work, and it would have produced a much better result than we have now. Because all 2.0 is:

 

A) press 1, Fire

 

B) Press *insert power here*

 

C) Mash E

Edited June 9, 2015 by Eureka.seveN

[Thalahssalyst]

So baiscally because you are getting kills the newer pvp 2.0 is better?

So basically because all you 1.0 players are getting rek the old conclave is better?

Here you dont need imaginare rules to make a "fair play" everithing is balance, or in constant balance, but not something forget like old...

Where i cant press E and win, because is not a long range thing like guns, where parkour is under coptering and air melee like before with a little combination with parkour...

Where if someone take his time to collect energy win like before... where the only things "fair" are that who dont rek me...

Old node is gone, i dont believe(and i hope) DE dont put it back, eventually, if 1.0 comes back just for that tiny portion of players who like just shoot things, its going to come on 2.0 "P4TW" because lack of people on 1.0 like before.

Where you cant choose your own way to play or have fun, because some people think it is unfair...

This topic/ discussion its making a confirmation on why DE already have make the awesome decition of reworking all the pvp system, there are 2 type of people who actually play pvp:

Old pvpers - Guns and little parkour in combination coptering, same weapons over and over, no? Zephyrs/Typedos/Vlakyrs/Mareloks/Vectis like semi automatic weapons/. and i forget ash or lokis.

New pvpers - Warframe pvp, Swords pvp, Warframe abilities pvp, excaliburs, mags, volts, and other type of warframes and a tons of diversity.

What is the point of making this type of threads? Divition between community because differents choice of game, and more confirmation on how elitist the people is.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Grimlock-

[JonBenj]

So basically because all you 1.0 players are getting rek the old conclave is better?

Here you dont need imaginare rules to make a "fair play" everithing is balance, or in constant balance, but not something forget like old...

Where i cant press E and win, because is not a long range thing like guns, where parkour is under coptering and air melee like before with a little combination with parkour...

Where if someone take his time to collect energy win like before... where the only things "fair" are that who dont rek me...

Old node is gone, i dont believe(and i hope) DE dont put it back, eventually, if 1.0 comes back just for that tiny portion of players who like just shoot things, its going to come on 2.0 "P4TW" because lack of people on 1.0 like before.

Where you cant choose your own way to play or have fun, because some people think it is unfair...

This topic/ discussion its making a confirmation on why DE already have make the awesome decition of reworking all the pvp system, there are 2 type of people who actually play pvp:

Old pvpers - Guns and little parkour in combination coptering, same weapons over and over, no? Zephyrs/Typedos/Vlakyrs/Mareloks/Vectis like semi automatic weapons/. and i forget ash or lokis.

New pvpers - Warframe pvp, Swords pvp, Warframe abilities pvp, excaliburs, mags, volts, and other type of warframes and a tons of diversity.

What is the point of making this type of threads? Divition between community because differents choice of game, and more confirmation on how elitist the people is.

 

Don't you ever get tired of typing the same words in every thread that mentions 1.0?

 

I think anybody who played it; knows it isn't coming back. They are all reminiscing and just generally giving opinons on the state of the game.

 

Due to increased player base joining after 2.0 dropped and the 1.0 players disappearing (which i think you would support) Eventually it won't come up at all unless during a nostalgic discussion - so hang in there Grim.

[Lyraius]

So basically because all you 1.0 players are getting rek the old conclave is better?

Lol wut mate? 

 

1.0 Players aren't getting rekt, they're just killing everyone and making their KD better much faster than before. I could mention a few names but I'm pretty sure you know who they are..

Edited June 9, 2015 by Heart.Less.

[Thalahssalyst]

Lol wut mate? 

 

1.0 Players aren't getting rekt, they're just killing everyone and making their KD better much faster than before. I could mention a few names but I'm pretty sure you know who they are..

It looks like they are getting rek, i could mention a few names, but well u know, i cant. (Forums Rules)

@jonbenj, maybe we say the same on all the topics, because all the topics come from the same people with the same purpose.

same people over and over, like kogake threads from... yes same people... and i can say most of the threads complaint about 2.0 gameplay are 1.0 players, lets check the feedback...

Im still dont see the point of this Thread, comparison, why? We all know how bad was (not for all obviously) 1.0 for player base for new comers and general.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Grimlock-

[S.T.M.P.D]

It looks like they are getting rek, i could mention a few names, but well u know, i cant. (Forums Rules)

@jonbenj, maybe we say the same on all the topics, because all the topics come from the same people with the same purpose.

same people over and over, like kogake threads from... yes same people... and i can say most of the threads complaint about 2.0 gameplay are 1.0 players, lets check the feedback...

Im still dont see the point of this Thread, comparison, why? We all know how bad was (not for all obviously) 1.0 for player base for new comers and general.

The people who used the honor code loved it so much they feel as though opening their beloved conclave up to filthy casuals has ruined it. That's the best I can figure out. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it was great, it just was great only for a select few hundred or so that lived, breathed, and peed Conclave.

I think the best course of action is just to put in a Duel mode like Tryhards of Thornsiris. I mean, hopefully the game will be balanced such that the honor code isn't needed, and neither will restrictions that remove crucial elements of the Warframe experience (melee, abilities, revives) that the devs want in it, but veterans will be able to screw around with builds as they please. Maybe they could have a gear-limited playlist and a use-whatever-the-hell-you-want playlist?

[Auramaru]

The people who used the honor code loved it so much they feel as though opening their beloved conclave up to filthy casuals has ruined it. That's the best I can figure out. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it was great, it just was great only for a select few hundred or so that lived, breathed, and peed Conclave.

I think the best course of action is just to put in a Duel mode like Tryhards of Thornsiris. I mean, hopefully the game will be balanced such that the honor code isn't needed, and neither will restrictions that remove crucial elements of the Warframe experience (melee, abilities, revives) that the devs want in it, but veterans will be able to screw around with builds as they please. Maybe they could have a gear-limited playlist and a use-whatever-the-hell-you-want playlist?

 

EDIT: I see no harm in adding in a feature that allows players to play the old conclave except that it would make some people on here whine about how 1.0 players got something they wanted.

 

The truth of the situation is that these players trying to shut down the idea of a 1.0 Conclave renewal have consistently been picking and choosing when to use their arguments that are drowning in logical fallacies. 

 

The argument goes like this:

Player A - "There's no point in adding conclave 1.0 back because no one would play it

Players B, C, D - "We would play it."

Player A - "Well if they add it back, then the PVP population would be split up."

Players B, C, D - "But you just said no one would play it..."

Player A - "Derp"

 

In terms of a business move, adding conclave 1.0 back into the game is a risk, but a small one comparatively (seemingly)

 

However, right now... based off of this very thread, it seems that there is a community of 1.0 veterans who just want to play the old gamemode... and then another camp of toxic haters who (seemingly) didn't like the gamemode (for whatever reason) and are denying the possibility and tossing the 1.0 veterans' opinions out the window through sheer toxicity hate speeches

 

(To emphasize the message, let’s change the font)

 

I really hate how the PVP Feedback subforum has been going because it seems every single time I stop in here, some hater (of Conclave 1.0) is just blatantly denouncing all opinions of all 1.0 Veterans (even when it seems practically unapplicable), and the moderators do nothing about it because there was no direct insult to any player within the post.

 

I've reported these players for indirectly calling all 1.0 Veterans "elitists", "A******s", etc. But nothing gets done. So at this point, I just don't give a damn. This subforum is either poorly moderated or the players doing the trash-talking are far too buddy-buddy with the higher-ups for 1.0 Veterans to hold a conversation

Edited June 9, 2015 by AuraMau

[Feyangol]

It looks like they are getting rek, i could mention a few names, but well u know, i cant. (Forums Rules)

Not really, the vast majority of 1.0 players is above average ...

If you don't trust me, than accept the challenge:

Conclave challenge - 1200 platinum, if you beat us

 

(yes, yes ... I just wanted to do some publicity xD )

Edited June 9, 2015 by Feyangol

[Tsoe]

i believe dark sector conflict will be perfect for it

[Naqel]

PvP 2.0 is the precise reason I claimed Warframe cannot have a functional PvP until it has a functional PvE.

 

Nothing about it feels like Warframe, aside from it playing like rubbish.

[Lord_Noctus]

It looks like they are getting rek, i could mention a few names, but well u know, i cant.

there is at the moment the sfu challenge and all of the sfu ppl in the team are veterans. Win against them and u get plat. For more info ask rexsol

[Lyraius]

It looks like they are getting rek, i could mention a few names, but well u know, i cant. (Forums Rules)

Well, even if the forum rules don't apply, you can't name a few, cause no pvp 1.0 veteran player is getting rekt.    #2funny4me

[Xaero]

So baiscally because you are getting kills the newer pvp 2.0 is better?

Because people who did not have as good gun skill who can magically get kills in 2.0. That makes it better?

 

Saying the old version was not better. Now thats a blatant lie.

 

 

 

The old version (with the honor code) had everything that the perfect MP game had

 

A challenging Skill Curve "Easy to learn hard to master"

 

A unique experience giht movment with low ttk and aim based gameplay

 

A long lasting fair experience (People have been playing europa, the same map , everyday, for like 2 years)

 

It was competitive and fun

 

 

 

Conclave 2.0

 

Does not have a skill curve, as powers and combos deliver easy kills

 

The game is lost planet but with parkour

 

Its no where near fair, nor fun

 

And definetely not competitive

 

 

This is what happens whan u make things more accessible, things go bad.

 

 

All that DE had to do was implement the honor code into actual code, and with the aid of the community find a means to teach players how to play the game. It would have been less work, and it would have produced a much better result than we have now. Because all 2.0 is:

 

A) press 1, Fire

 

B) Press *insert power here*

 

C) Mash E

 

Totally disagree. You said "easy to learn, hard to master". Well if you are easily killed just with spamming 'E', then you haven't mastered it enough. BTW in old conclave i saw many zephyrs with penta, reflex guard and bo prime who were just flying around the map insta-killing everyone. And if they couldn't kill someone they just spammed turbulence. How balanced is it, huh?

[DrBorris]

Totally disagree. You said "easy to learn, hard to master". Well if you are easily killed just with spamming 'E', then you haven't mastered it enough. BTW in old conclave i saw many zephyrs with penta, reflex guard and bo prime who were just flying around the map insta-killing everyone. And if they couldn't kill someone they just spammed turbulence. How balanced is it, huh?

In all of my time playing on Europa Conclave (where the Honor code was the strongest) I only had two times when someone abused stuff. The first of which was an ash who spammed Bladestorm (this was long before Dark Sectors mind you), the second was someone who spammed M. Prime (But this person was new to Conclave, thus was still easily beaten (and was rather rude when we asked them to stop using abilities)). Sure, there were people who used OP stuff, but it was still possible to not get beaten by them. Actually, it was very easy because the people who used the OP stuff were the people who were not that great at PvP. Movement was your health, actual health stats played very little role in your "tankiness". Your Tankiness was determined by how much skill you had, how fast you could move around the map. I am sorry that you met such a d*ck in Conclave 1.0, but what the "vets" want back is Conclave 1.0 WITH the Honor code as rigid rules. Your experience was a person who did not follow those rules, so I am sorry to say that experience is not in any way a reflection of what the "vets" want. 

Edited June 10, 2015 by DrBorris

[Auramaru]

Totally disagree. You said "easy to learn, hard to master". Well if you are easily killed just with spamming 'E', then you haven't mastered it enough. BTW in old conclave i saw many zephyrs with penta, reflex guard and bo prime who were just flying around the map insta-killing everyone. And if they couldn't kill someone they just spammed turbulence. How balanced is it, huh?

Eureka clearly said, in the quote you linked, that "(with the honor code)", conclave 1.0 was fun and fair.

Literally all the things you listed were players NOT ABIDING BY THE HONOR CODE. Your entire post is irrelevant to what eureka said. Penta, Reflex Guard, melee spam, and turbulence were all against the code.

Edited June 10, 2015 by [DE]Danielle
Removed provoking comment

[Aciaj613]

Darnet, I'm ready to start on my next chapter of feedback going into more detail but this one is still on the front page X_X.

[S.T.M.P.D]

Darnet, I'm ready to start on my next chapter of feedback going into more detail but this one is still on the front page X_X.

We don't need one. We don't need another damn thread talking about how "X is terrible, old X was better nyeh nyeh nyeh" without a single modicium of good feedback. What we do need is a constructive discussion on how to reintegrate Conclave 1.0 keeping the best of the honor code while cutting out its bad parts, like not having melee or abilities.

I mean, come on. When was the last time endlessly talking about how terrible something was and not discussing how to improve it made it better?