Juggernaut Fight And How De Knows How To Make Bosses

[Aimop95]

I had fun, it's not a boss you can fight on the open, which is nice, cause a lot of other bosses you just run circles around them, stand in front of them, and just keep firing. Not so much this guy.

[TARINunit9]

Not sure if this is said, but jugg is not a boss, it is a heavy unit. Prove? Go the simulation, you can spawn him in, just like bombards and techs.

And yet he uses identical mission coding to Phorid

It's an Infested Assassinate mission

Juggz is a boss no matter how I try and slice it

[Gemini_Jenvas]

shot it dead with my vaykor marelok, which is easy as I dont go low on hp with healtank saryn, but the fight still takes forever.

what kind of charging juggernaut doesnt have the "bait to slam in wall"-mechanic? Like this one can just wait till it shows its weakspots (of which one is not indicated in any way)

Boring bullet sponge is boring

Edited June 12, 2015 by Jenvas1306

[themartinc123]

And yet he uses identical mission coding to Phorid

It's an Infested Assassinate mission

Juggz is a boss no matter how I try and slice it

Did you get a mark for killing jugg?Phroid give a mark, but I think jugg don't, so jugg isn't a boss.

[Andaius]

I dont know I did this fight with my brother using a valk, all you do is get hystarical go in for melee and it cant damage you. Yeah hysteria gives you invulerability,but my brother with his loki nust did the same and didnt take any damage either. I didn't have to target any spots or anything you just have to stay close and he can't seem to hit you. Mind you, i've only fought him once to get the emblem upgrade so far.

[Siubijeni]

I really don't think he's such a good boss. He had way too much health, even focusing solely on weakpoints. It took me literally half an hour to solo him for my first kill. And two tries. His little spine volley one-hits me as Nova (and I do not build my Nova particularly squishy), lost all four of my revives getting him down to about 25% health left.

Then I went Volt, hopped on the rocks and pipes around the walls, and threw up electric shields when needed to block spine volleys. Then it was just a matter of grinding down that absurd health pool--never could kill me. Brought a status-build Quanta Vandal cause it's super ammo-efficient, with Wraith Twin Vipers to quickly kill his little friends. That managed to do around 58 damage per shot per tick... and multishot meant multiple hits per tick... but by far the most effective thing I found was chucking Glaive Prime built for one bounce at the ground right in front of him. About half the time, it manages to bounce up under him and hit the weak-spot for 1-2k damage. Or you can just chuck it at the other weak points...

 

Fat bastard seems to be almost totally immune to procs, though. Through-out the entire thing, my 91%-status-chance-per-second Quanta Vandal proc-ed Viral once, and Radiation three or four times. And the 91% figure, testing it on other stuff, seems pretty darn accurate--just about every little guy got a proc almost instantly, or at least within the first few ticks.

 

If my friends want me to help them with the Tac Alert when they get on... I'm going to make sure and finish leveling up Mesa first -_-

Edited June 6, 2015 by Siubijeni

[Burnthesteak87]

Even if it's still to balance, because essentially its Aoe skills can't be dodged every time and there are no Health Orbs coming out, so essentially players will have to abuse Consumables and Healing Warframes, it's a better boss than every other boss in the game.

The damage Cap is an awesome idea.

The spikes do oneshot certain Warframes, this is ridicle. (I keep maxed Vitality on every WF)

I feel it lacks an extreme ranged attack to avoid people abusing staying on the highest places to totally avoid its skills.

Also, it's vulnerable to Freeze, Slow, Corrosive.

Anyway a step in the right direction.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Burnthesteak87

[Aivirth]

use nova 

....

well pretty much that

[aoguro]

After fighting the Juggernaut several times (without a Mesa mind you) I have to say this was an excellent boss fight and the best one DE has made in a very long time. The Juggernaut's attacks and weak point sections were spot on, however there some things that I felt werent necessary in the fight:

The sticky spawn floor attack: The fact that Infested are spawned from the boss is a great mechanic however I think the amount of infested spawned at a time should be toned down a bit. The sticky floor was just unnecessary and frustrating, thus taking attention away from how good the fight itself was. Im all for spawning infested but sticky floor needs to go.

Weak points: The weak point on the stomach is a great mechanic however I think the duration should be increased by about .25 to .5 seconds, i've heard from Boltor (Prime) and projectile based weapons users having trouble hitting the point in the small window of exposure.

Now the weak point on his back you would never know about unless someone told you or you happened to hit it by accident at the right time when it opens up. I suggest this be made glowing as well to be consistent with the weak point on the stomach.

Attacks: The only things I have to suggest about attacks is to make the missiles have a slight homing function that can be easily dodged and for the charge to be a bit slower to allow people to dodge it in more than .5 second reaction time. As for the gas attack I honestly dont know what its supposed to do but to me it seems like nothing at all happens.

Environment: The arena itself is good but could use some tweaks. For one things like pipes and such on the walls should either be removed or give the Juggernaut an ability to "pull" players off of them and back into the arena, such as if they go above a certain height they get pulled but it would be high enough to still allow for parkour. The point is to prevent Mesa users and others from going up there where the boss cant hit them and taking him out in less than a minute with Peacemaker. I dont mean to rain on your parade but at least give this guy a fighting chance instead of that.

Conclusion: It seems to me that the problem with DE's bosses is that DE knows how to make giant bosses properly but dont know how to make man sized bosses properly. I mean the Juggernaut for a first version is pretty damn awesome to fight in my opinion and a lot more fun than say Sargus Ruk or Mutalist Alad V who are man sized bosses. This is just from my own observations of Warframe bosses in relation to eachother.

 

youre are right, as well as i enjoy that the juggernauts own "security-system" makes vaubans spamming useless =)))

 

and im shure that the level of the juggernaut at this event was simply "friendly", imagine that this "pet" goes mad on a real level 50 match XD

[letir]

1) Even if it's still to balance, because essentially its Aoe skills can't be dodged every time and there are no Health Orbs coming out, so essentially players will have to abuse Consumables and Healing Warframes, it's a better boss than every other boss in the game.

2) The damage Cap is an awesome idea.

3) Also, it's vulnerable to Freeze, Slow, Corrosive.

1)  If I have "healing warframe", i shouldn't use abilities, because it's "abuse". Right.

2) Nope, it's awful idea. Another strike for heavy hard-hitters.

3) It's immune to Corrosive

[Ishki88]

Going to use Speed Nova later

[Robin_Gr]

If I see that time sink sitting in a normal hallway I'm just going to keep on running. Not even worth it for those drops even if I had mesa I wouldn't waste the energy.

[Burnthesteak87]

1)  If I have "healing warframe", i shouldn't use abilities, because it's "abuse". Right.

2) Nope, it's awful idea. Another strike for heavy hard-hitters.

3) It's immune to Corrosive

If you fail to understand my points please read them again.

The point #1 is about the Boss dealing Aoe damages not avoidable and sometimes oneshotting. To sustain the fight with a reasonable mechanic, DE should allow a way to soak damage so the player isn't on his own to bring that heavy amount of HPs from 100 to 0%.

This is the meaning of "abusing" consumables (which I despise) and the necessary use of healer skills/ Warframes; I didn't say to not use them, I'm explaining that having an healer is advisable because of the circumstance.

But again, Healers are a thing in games that use the combination Tank-Healer-Dps. Warframe isn't such a game, so the necessity of abusing Consumables and Healers is a symptom of something not going in the correct place.

The point #2 is an awesome Idea beacuse it solves the Serration problem and is a step in the right direction to have prolonged and funny fights, not just a sick "rush-oneshot-reward" system.

It's not immune to Corrosive.

Edited June 6, 2015 by Burnthesteak87

[DrMarlboro]

i dont understand why people are complaining about a damage cap. its a freaking giant monster that can kill you. it should be challenging to kill him. and if using a damage cap can make that happen then i'm all for it. boss fights in this game suck. you can kill most bosses in a few seconds if you have high enough gear, and i think that needs to change. im all for a boss fight that last 10 minutes, but i dont want "no im invulnerable right now" bosses like lephantis. a damage cap does that nicely. he can still take damage, but at a max rate to prevent him from being downed in 10 seconds.

[RedDirtTrooper]

What's hard to understand? Damage caps are bad mechanics, in every game they've ever been used in. They, make progression pointless, and they limit weapon choices.  If you want him to last longer, then give him enough health or armor that it takes however long you want it to with properly modded weapons, and let the chips fall where they may. Damage caps are just game designers breaking the rules of their own game. They are a poor and lazy design choice, and any company that uses them should feel bad about it. In a game that is all about progression, the guy who has polarized his weapon five or six times and worked out a perfect max DPS build deserves to do more damage than some scrub who barely knows what they're doing. Add a damage cap and you've just made all and any progression past that cap meaningless, and the slower firing and higher damage the weapon is the worse it's been neutered.

[Cat_Has_My_Pipe]

If DE would just imitate Monster Hunter design when it comes to bosses I'd be so happy.

[Sapphic-Sandra]

There's no challenge is the problem. A fun long boss battle that challenges you and a 15 minute firing line into a bullet sponge are two totally different things. 2-second Diablo style boss runs are also mind numbingly poor as well.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Tabrunette

[Psychus]

You seriously think this is a good boss? It has a freaking damage cap on it for gods sake. It has everything that makes it unfun and boring.

Trust me, it doesn't.

[fatpig84]

His issue is the damage cap.

DE should remove it for sanity reasons.

 

Because I want to use a bow or sniper rifle, but such changes alienate them more as good weapons (see Nullifier do the same too).

[Ashnal]

Seems to be the byproduct to the engine not being able to support smarter AI

Nah, it's a byproduct of demigod Tenno who kill everything very quickly. And if they don't kill everything quickly, they whine and complain on the forum.

 

Makes it pretty hard to make a semi-intelligent boss fight under these conditions. Intelligence needs time to show its value.

[themartinc123]

His issue is the damage cap.

DE should remove it for sanity reasons.

Because I want to use a bow or sniper rifle, but such changes alienate them more as good weapons (see Nullifier do the same too).

There isn't a damage cap on jugg. I try it on LV 35,40,50,60,65 and70 jugg, you should try it too. ( spawn 20 lv70 , it is pretty much a instant kill)

From my results, I don't see a damage cap, LV 35 have slightly higher numbers than lv70 .(so there isn't a cap, just insane armor on jugg) x.x

[RedDirtTrooper]

There isn't a damage cap on jugg. I try it on LV 35,40,50,60,65 and70 jugg, you should try it too. ( spawn 20 lv70 , it is pretty much a instant kill)

From my results, I don't see a damage cap, LV 35 have slightly higher numbers than lv70 .(so there isn't a cap, just insane armor on jugg) x.x

There most certainly is a damage cap on him, and if you haven't seen it then you are using a weapon that doesn't consistently hit it. 

[themartinc123]

There most certainly is a damage cap on him, and if you haven't seen it then you are using a weapon that doesn't consistently hit it.

I used Cali,banshee, nektos and mesa, all show similar trend

[RedDirtTrooper]

What in the world would warframe choice have to do with damage capping?  It's about your guns. Because of the damage cap per hit it will always be better to have a weapon with more hits per second and lower damage than one with fewer hits per second and massive damage when it comes to killing it. 

[Dustii-chan]

Sidenote: There's little to no reason to re-fight bosses once you have the Frame.  Hopefully starchart changes will bring about something new or cool ......Token system for unique rewards/weapons cough cough.

 

Carry on.

I was hoping for them to make excavation an option to gain rare parts/mods. I mean, wouldn't you consider prime parts and corrupted mods as "artifacts"?