May 19Th: Hot Feedback Topics

[KvotheTheArcane1]

CC Rhino is fun, just needs a CC boost(knock back). Don't use his skills to deal damage, you have a gun for that :)

That's what I mean, the CC aspect is weak on them. Compared to like mag (although that's more damage, if you compare ult to ult), or vauban's 3, etc

[Mak_Gohae]

more or less, he's been saying the entire time that rhino is fine, you just gotta build pure energy and spam rhino stomp/radial blast instead of iron skin. (even though both of those abilities are weak as heck, but what can you expect from a troll?)

 

I didnt say you have to build in any sort of way, i just mentioned that have built like that and it works because i dont follow the idea that if it doesnt't one-shot it's useless.

 

I have said that now that with the current state of Iron Skin where you cant just stand in the middle of a room and press attack until stuff is dead that you should look to adding something to that repertoire and maybe add some of his other powers to compensate. How you adjust is up to you.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[Eversor]

Don't use his skills to deal damage, you have a gun for that :)

Oh wait, i suggest the same for all the other frames,to keep things in even grounds. lets see how do u care about it. just lol ¬¬

Edited May 19, 2013 by Eversor

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I didnt say you have to build in any sort of way, i just mentioned that have built like that and it works because i dont follow the idea that if it doesnt't one-shot it's useless.

 

I have said that now that with the current of Iron Skin where you cant just stand in the middle of a room and press attack until stuff is dead that you should look to adding something to that repertoire and maybe add some of his other powers to compensate. How you adjust is up to you.

OK, sorry that's true, but the generally direction of your posts were that rhino is fine, you just gotta play him as something different now (caster esq/CC tank, not a true tank)

[GroxXx777]

As long as you bring old Iron Skin back I'm happy with this,

[Judgebanks]

Real Question:   How many hundreds of thousands of kills should a player have to be expected to have every single mod, excluding thunderbolt/handspring/retribution ?

 

Also is there any chance of the Grinner defense getting revamped? It is absolutely and unbearably boring, enemy spawn rates seem too slow to the point where you often times find yourself waiting between spawns.

[MrNonApplicable]

Thank you for taking the time to read the message I sent you, I have confidence that you will do your best to sort out this issue. Thanks for being part of such a responsive and community focused development process.

 

For those that are looking for a way to summarize their potential complaints about the market adjustments, I took the time, to write this out, upvoting this may help get your words and feelings out.

 

"I really hope you get this message as I think you'd benefit from taking what I have to say on board.

 

I like the new update, and though the new warframe is not really my kind of thing, I think many people will like that too.

The move to higher credit prices and more isolation from credit spending, on to buying purchases isn't going to affect me. However, I think it's going to hit new, potential and low level players quite hard.

 

I understand there needs to be a balance to the credit system, versus the platinum system, I get that, platinum needs to be worth the spend. However, these BP and credit requirements aren't really going to affect the higher level players, with their large credit amounts and pools of resources, but for people just starting out it's going to make the commitment to a new weapon all the more daunting and maybe a frustrated decision further down the line may turn them away from the game.

 

For example, when I first upgraded to a new primary weapon I went for the burston, it was kind of cheap, quite accurate and reasonable damage, and I felt like it was a great gun for a any starting out character. However, when I convinced two of my friends to try out warframe they did not like the feel of burstfire weapons, it just wasn't for them, one stuck to the braton, the other later went for the strun. and it was okay because the cost of doing so, gambling on not knowing what the weapon was like was not too punishing and off-putting.

 

My point is that now, with most non plat purchases moving to BP's and ramping up the credit prices buying new weapons that a player has no experience of is a much more daunting experience, and if a player invested in building a weapon, only to discover it wasn't how they expected and they wasted so many credits and resources, they're likely to be very annoyed, and it may be enough to push away the newest players.

 

I'm not saying/suggesting/asking for a revert to these changes, I think it's good for balancing out the platinum, especially if this is to balance out for the trading being spoken of to come in update 8, which I am very excited about.

 

However I think there should be a 'trial this weapon' feature in the game to balance out the 'gamble' of buying much more costly, time consuming weapons. If, for example, you were to give maybe a 3 or 5 day trial of any weapon (provided the level requirement is reached) of the weapon set at a base level 5(locked at that level and no xp earned for using it) with a orokin catalyst (promoting the goods you could get hold of so much easier with platinum). Then people would get a chance to experience the weapon, lowering the gamble of getting new weapons and would be able to potentially get the desire to just get it was quickly as possible (using platinum) and the same for a orokin catalyst, seeing the effect it has.

 

At the end of this trial all mods equipped to it (that they earned) could be returned to their inventory and the weapon claimed back showing a little message offering them the chance to  buy now for platinum, or redirecting them to the market to get the BP for the item.

 

I really hope you take the time to look at this message and hopefully, do something about it, as I believe the players, both free-play, and plat-play would benefit from this, and it could promote more potential platinum sales and get more people aware of the warframe internal economy."

[ArcSynder]

I'm looking forward to seeing where you go from here DE. 

 

I must admit, my optimism in this game is not what it used to be. Hopefully you can turn what you have said into reality.

[Balduron04]

1) “How to better release big things”

2) Balance and future plans?

3) RNG is bad!

4) Alert System for New content?

 

5) Gamers First? Steam?

 

6) Market Overhaul?

 

7) ... but what about Rhino?

 

8) ... and Banshee? What about her Sound Quake?

 

1: Forecast the future. We might not know what will happen this month, or three months for now, but having dev's say "Hey, X, Y, and Z are things we think are problems and we are going to be looking into them" will do some good things. Like prepare us for the inevetible. Or let us give our feedback BEFORE things go south so dev's can get new and interesting ideas to play with.

 

Also, knowing why is a big factor. "We nerfed Iron Skin because its stupid" vs "We changed Iron Skin because it lets you do non-stealth ninja things in a game about ninjas and stealth" vs "We changed Iron Skin to get ready for a PvP update" vs "We nerfed Iron Skin to encourage people to not play Rhino." There are TONS of things that go different with each one of those SINGLE sentences. Having a reason is important, and having more information about that reason makes things go down easier. We can understand WHY problems are there, we can even understand WHAT the problem MIGHT BE, and that's huge.

 

1: Don't forget about suprises. If there's something cool, like a new warframe coming out, how much awesome would it be to have hints or pieces of it drop under certain conditions. It would be like an easter egg, a hidden warframe/weapon, or a quiet event. We would go CRAZY trying to figure out how, where, why, when, and what. And it would be really fun for some of us.

 

Like there's a ? alert that drops a map that sends us on a treasure hunt/mystery to get something worth while. Or an event start trigger is inside one of the normal alerts and gives no warning. I'm sure you can come up with something that will WOW us.

 

2: A thread. A video like how League of Legends did interviews with their Head Designer. A callender. Any sort of "These are our future plans" information distribution. It doesn't have to be interactive at this point. They are plans. They are subject to change. It helps us build anticipation.  Cool things will build excitement, bad things will let us get over them before they happen. And a changelog calling attention to changes in the plans would be cool.

 

And then you could say

"X was changed according to plan. Read about the plan at www.plan.forums.warframe.com"

 

3: Can't help here. Sorry.

If this is really about blueprints from bosses / resources and other stuff, and the RNG is the underlying issue, just cut out the RNG part and make the drop locations and ammounts permanent.

 

4: Yes and No. Events are fun AND worth it. I liked the last one. Alerts can be missed, so Events can be better for some types of new content. But alerts should have their place too, like a map to early-release a new system that has a boss in it.  Clever use of your many tools will help build fun into the game.

 

5: I got it via Steam. That's about all I can say atm.

 

6: Market probably needed it, but dont make everything a blueprint. Simple and/or basic weapons should be available for credits. Only weapons that are exotic, need extremely rare resources, or very challenging to use should need blueprints. Keep to your tier lists. Make those more solid, cause you have 2 different sets of restrictions:

 

Mass producable, easy to use: Credits

Mass producable, hard to use: Mastery Locked

Requires Rare component, common knowledge: Buyable Blueprint

Easy to make, Uncommon Knowledge: Boss Drop

Requires Rare component, Uncommon Knowledge: Alert Blueprint

 

 

Blueprints are like mini-quests. I don't want to have to quest for every weapon, but I don't mind questing for something that's going to be awesome. And if its rare or exotic enough, It should be a blueprint that comes  up in the alert system, and you can control its release to the general public much easier that way.

 

Blueprints ALSO generally take up twice the amount of credits that just buying a weapon will do.

 

This coupled with the fact that you have to GET the weapon before you can TRY it will burn some people. Having to spend 50k on a blueprint, 35k plus 3-4 days of resource farming to MAKE it, waiting 12 hours to TRY it, only to find that its an inferior version of somthing you bought/made earlier is a TERRIBLE feeling. Especially when you were looking forward to it and you only get dissapointment. Testing Center Please! Orokin Library where we can "check out" things in one of those cool white spaces one at a time.

 

7: Cool. We can stop worrying until we get more feedback.

 

8: Fix the "bug", make people happy.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

This will likely get added to the FAQ as well, but Gamers First is a platform for us to distribute the game. See here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/42583-gamersfirst-partnership/page-7#entry418359

Yeah, I'm not entirely sure what this is. If I already use Steam to handle Warframe, will I have to switch to this Gamers First platform? Or is it just a strictly separate thing, like Origin/Steam/Impulse/etc?

We have destroyed new-player appeal!

We need a better tutorial, we need to introduce players to the systems within our game in a way that makes sense. This will take some time to implement, hopefully by adjusting the crafting costs it won't be "too little too late".

 

Grinding increase laments.

I'm seeing complaints that the grind has been increased because now what used to be credits are now craft-only and how this affects desire to play. I will pass this along with the suggestion to review the Crafting Component first.

Yes. The main thing, IMO, is that basic weapons like the burston take a whole lot of alloy plate - stuff which is barely available in Venus and only really plentiful in Ceres and Sedna, and even then not hugely plentiful. Gorgon being a BP is fine, but Skana isn't.

 

7) ... but what about Rhino?

He will be reviewed and changed!

Excellent. Personally, I'd prefer a return of the invulnerability along with an increase to casting cost (75 or 100) and a nerf to duration so it's only ~10 seconds with maxed out IS. The main problem with Rhino's IS was that it was spammable, not that it provided temporary invulnerability.

 

Overall, I've gotta say that this post has reaffirmed my faith in DE. Players mainly want to be heard, so telling us that we're being heard is good enough for me.

[Zarozian]

1) “How to better release big things”

 

Quick timeline:

Friday @ 5 PM, Update 7.11.0 goes out.

Reactions pour in for Rhino, then feedback pours in.

Time passes and instead of Rhino being targeted, it’s the communication process in general.

I agree and think we should come up with something new! Just like we have “Community Hot Topics”, why not have “Development Hot Topics!” Thanks to the threads that nudged, poked, and screamed for more communication.

 

This leads me to my next topic….

 

2) Balance and future plans?

 

This is derived from Item # 1 in that when we know we are going to change something (Like Rhino Skin), we should inform, rationalize, and gauge feedback before we implement. This will be an ongoing learning process for us to find the best way to succinctly communicate upcoming changes and goals.

 

 

7) ... but what about Rhino?

He will be reviewed and changed!

 

This makes me somewhat uneasy for some reason since Rebecca said "change" instead of restoring....Q _Q

 

That word scares me......

[Mandragora]

Thanks for the placating words Rebecca.

 

I'll thank you for more when we actually see these issues resolved in a satisfactory manner.

[Zarozian]

i just wanted to say thank you for being patient with all the feedback that has flooded your forums. You guys are doing a fantastic job and honestly, if your game can bring this much passion out of people, then you guys are doing something right. Allowing us to post our feedback both good and bad is awesome and listening to it and responding is icing on the cake. Makes me proud to be a Founder. Thank you!

You mean bring out rage and fiery fury? what kind of passion have you been smoking?

 

I think they are bringing out the wrong kind of passion out of us. >.>

[Lumireaver]

4) Alert System for New content?

 

Is this the way it will always be? No, not at all. Implementing a Warframe this way has been met with feedback from all sides. At the time of writing this, it has been about 40 hours since the Update featuring Vauban was released, with no parts yet dropped. The system is RNG and I am closely monitoring the feed to get the parts myself. We want to be fair, Steve said it best in the FAQ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/5898-warframe-faq/.

 

There has been suggestions of ways to improve the alerts (adding a token system, generating Alerts based on time logged in, etc), and these are being seen.

 

...

 

8) ... and Banshee? What about her Sound Quake?

 

I believe the damage Sound Quake now does is working as intended... but being vulnerable during the casting animation is problematic. Will inform and suggest invulnerability be returned. 

 

Some quick snips.

 

Adding the ability to chose from multiple rewards would increase our chances at getting something we want without compromising your current business model.

 

Alternatively, if you're into crazy suggestions and radical deviations from the standard, maybe it we could set up the rewards for alerts as a community on a metagame/player base/social game level using dojos. Individual dojos could select a blueprint to research after crafting some kind of R&D lab. Throwing resources into this lab could raise the publicly visible progress bar in some new community menu. Individual players could by R&D boosters for platinum to kick research up a notch whenever they contribute. Once the community fills the bar, everyone gets a twelve hour alert, or just the ability to tackle the alert at their leisure so long as they contributed. To keep the ball in DE's court, you could restrict players to choose form three different blueprints a week or something. This could work alongside the current, totally random alert system.

 

Think: Extermination event, but somewhat different.

 

Concerning Banshee, I just popped mine out of the oven today. Her Sound Quake is hard to use effectively, but if the dev team nerfed it for a reason, maybe it could stay nerfed. To compensate for the fact that she now takes damage, her Sonic Boom could stun for a longer duration, allowing players to chain the two skills together or something.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Lumireaver

[Kripnex]

I didnt say you have to build in any sort of way, i just mentioned that have built like that and it works because i dont follow the idea that if it doesnt't one-shot it's useless.

 

I have said that now that with the current state of Iron Skin where you cant just stand in the middle of a room and press attack until stuff is dead that you should look to adding something to that repertoire and maybe add some of his other powers to compensate. How you adjust is up to you.

 

Oh yea, that totally justifies turning a tank into a tin can which is outperformed by half of the existing frames...

 

You see, being a tank means that you deal less damage, but compensate by being able to take way more damage.

If you fail to understand this, then you shouldn't give your opinion on frames that specialize in tanking.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Hakitojin

[Starforsaken]

You DE are great! Keeping us informed and learning about how to make things better. We will all learn togheter, as long as you hear the community this game will be huge!

[Zarozian]

Oh yea, that totally justifies turning a tank into a tin can which is outperformed by half of the existing frames...

 

You see, being a tank means that you deal less damage, but compensate by being able to take way more damage.

If you fail to understand this, then you shouldn't give your opinion on frames that specialize in tanking.

Hes a troll or maybe just stupid. Just correct him out of your own will, honestly it's a waste of time reading his posts.

[GroxXx777]

Excellent. Personally, I'd prefer a return of the invulnerability along with an increase to casting cost (75 or 100) and a nerf to duration so it's only ~10 seconds with maxed out IS. The main problem with Rhino's IS was that it was spammable, not that it provided temporary invulnerability.

 

Overall, I've gotta say that this post has reaffirmed my faith in DE. Players mainly want to be heard, so telling us that we're being heard is good enough for me.

 

That's exactly what it needs to be done, give us invincibility back but make it less spamable, through either more energy cost or cooldown.

[Mak_Gohae]

Oh yea, that totally justifies turning a tank into a tin can which is outperformed by half of the existing frames...

 

You see, being a tank means that you deal less damage, but compensate by being able to take way more damage.

If you fail to understand this, then you shouldn't give your opinion on frames that specialize in tanking.

 

He can take away damage from the whole team when using his other abilities because this frame specializes on that.

[Gearb0x]

Thank you, DeRebecca, for parsing the vitriol and recriminations and finding the useful, meaningful lessons that we as a community and DE as a company can learn from the experience with this patch.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with everything you say here, and appreciate the insight into your thought process.

 

Perhaps in the future there could be threads, posted by devs, "X is Broken.  Help us fix X" where the devs point out what is broken about something, why it's broken and then takes community suggestions on how to fix it.

[Kroul]

My suggestion for the Vauban BPs in alerts,

 

            If you still want to keep him in the alert systems only have one of his parts be in the alert system. Let us have a way to grind the other two parts (maybe like the banshee BPs)

 

At this rate i am hoping to get all Vauban BP parts in maybe a month if i am lucky enough to be on for all the drops.

 

But who knows maybe RNG was just messing with us these last 40+ hours, we have had 8 artifact alerts since U7.11 released so maybe its just rotten luck.

[BloodEmperor]

As long as you bring old Iron Skin back I'm happy with this,

+1 on this: IS is needed in a TEAM

players that do missions solo with rhino cause of IS who cares its THEIR PLAYSTYLE others rush etc its A GAME as long as its fun everythings allright

[Kripnex]

He can take away damage from the whole team when using his other abilities because this frame specializes on that.

 

That would be support, not tanking, go away...

[Kynian]

Truth be told, I'm still a bit afraid of what's coming next on U8. I mean, honestly, this patch was a disaster through and through.

That said, I do believe the DE staff is competent and will do their best to solve this all, and improve everything.

I suppose it'll take some time until I'm fully confident about this again, but oh well. I'll help in whatever way i can. If any of my feedback posts have been helpful at all, great, I'll continue to do so. I just hope I won't have to.

Really not looking forward to another disaster.

Break through it DE!

[Zashrak]

Thank you for those answers Rebecca, and about :

 

8) ... and Banshee? What about her Sound Quake?

 

I believe the damage Sound Quake now does is working as intended... but being vulnerable during the casting animation is problematic. Will inform and suggest invulnerability be returned.

Please fix or communicate about the range too, almost reduce do 1/3 of what it used to be :)

I agreed it was a little bit OP with maxout reach mod, but right now, it's lower than Saryn's Miasma, which is instant and hurts ancients !