Nerf Daiky Until It No Longer One Shots Squisher Frames

[pavlo555]

Just Glaivelex, man !

[ashrah]

if u know someone use bow and u going to yolo him u will die....u must adapt playstyle depending of situation

[Lyraius]

Also thats the whole point of "squisher frames", it means their defenses are very low compared to others. Like Excalibur for instance, he is very powerful but is squishy. Everything needs a advantage and atleast 1 disadvantage. 

 

EDIT: Yo R3DBelont456, are you talking to me or about me? Because I'm not asking for a nerf. :D

Edited June 10, 2015 by Heart.Less.

[-NyriX-]

Oh oh, play against me please, no 4th powers as it is mostly an instant kill. Only daikyu? agreed? 

 

Down to join on this one

[TaylorsContraction]

I'll just state a totally unrelated observation. DaiQ is actually a pretty easy weapon to get kills with, easier than rifles. People claim there is a lot of skill involved but having played against many daiQ users I've come to realize its appeal and that it's actually not a pro weapon at all.

DaiQ requires you to stay on target for a fraction of a second, and you can spend the rest of your time coptering away from target and recharging your shot. A rifle requires you to stay on target for 2-3 seconds. You have to perform three same evasive maneuvers as the bow users while maintaining that extended lock on. It's much harder than that split second. Also you can't really chase and fire your rifle because of so many obstructions. Running away is pretty easy. The only time one can chase and shoot is if there is an opportunity to do a fling jump and fire while airborne. Not all maps facilitate this kind of motion. Most DaiQ kills on me are just opportunistic and I shrug them off. I'd be in a fire fight, bow guy joins in, easy line up because I'm evading someone else,easy kill. That's how most DaiQ users play anyway, it's not really skilled, just opportunistic.

Whether you care to admit it or not, bow users have greater mobility than rifles because you don't have to maintain an extended lock on while performing dodges. Most bow users if actually engaging me and not scoring an opportunistic kill will rum out of ammo before actually landing a hit. Typically this tells me their skill level is the same as mine. There are exceptions of course, I've ran into two players who pulled of some really nice shots and I wished I could complement them but all chat is gone.

Just sharing my thoughts on DaiQ.

[Nighttide77]

I'll be honest, 90% of my KO's are opportunistic. Whether it's by bow, rifle or shotgun, I prefer to wait and watch my targets for the right moment.

I think equipped melee is the only time I'm just gonna rush at enemies without waiting for what seems like a good opportunity.

[Nighttide77]

One other thing thinking about rifles... It might be a good move for full-auto users to consider manually burst firing the weapon. That way they don't get stuck trying to walk and shoot for their full mag. Something I might want to consider... That doesn't work well with wind-up weapons, tho...unless sprinting/sliding to keep the wind-up going...

Something I want to start getting good at is wall-running and shooting. That stuff is like...Matrix action...one Mag was doing it with a Lex...was real frustrating trying to hit them and they were missing tons of shots, but I gotta admit, it was a pretty cool style.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Nighttide77

[-InV-igo95862]

Oh oh, play against me please, no 4th powers as it is mostly an instant kill. Only daikyu? agreed? 

 

I already played against you. Despite you spamming 4 with black energy I still managed to make it draw.

 

 

I'll just state a totally unrelated observation. DaiQ is actually a pretty easy weapon to get kills with, easier than rifles. People claim there is a lot of skill involved but having played against many daiQ users I've come to realize its appeal and that it's actually not a pro weapon at all.

DaiQ requires you to stay on target for a fraction of a second, and you can spend the rest of your time coptering away from target and recharging your shot. A rifle requires you to stay on target for 2-3 seconds. You have to perform three same evasive maneuvers as the bow users while maintaining that extended lock on. It's much harder than that split second. Also you can't really chase and fire your rifle because of so many obstructions. Running away is pretty easy. The only time one can chase and shoot is if there is an opportunity to do a fling jump and fire while airborne. Not all maps facilitate this kind of motion. Most DaiQ kills on me are just opportunistic and I shrug them off. I'd be in a fire fight, bow guy joins in, easy line up because I'm evading someone else,easy kill. That's how most DaiQ users play anyway, it's not really skilled, just opportunistic.

Whether you care to admit it or not, bow users have greater mobility than rifles because you don't have to maintain an extended lock on while performing dodges. Most bow users if actually engaging me and not scoring an opportunistic kill will rum out of ammo before actually landing a hit. Typically this tells me their skill level is the same as mine. There are exceptions of course, I've ran into two players who pulled of some really nice shots and I wished I could complement them but all chat is gone.

Just sharing my thoughts on DaiQ.

 

Yes.

 

Here is usual kill with Daiky:

 

 

I still support making bows deal more damage with distance. That is a skill shot:

 

[Feyangol]

I already played against you. Despite you spamming 4 with black energy I still managed to make it draw.

 

 

 

Yes.

 

Here is usual kill with Daiky:

 

 

[...]

I don't understand what the first mini video should show us ...

I only see how you stomp noobs (seriously, you move straightforward into the face of a slow player which don't even hit you with a spam weapon at this distance and of course you are lucky and get a headshot ... ).

Edited June 10, 2015 by Feyangol

[Thalahssalyst]

I already played against you. Despite you spamming 4 with black energy I still managed to make it draw.

 

 

 

Yes.

 

Here is usual kill with Daiky:

 

 

I still support making bows deal more damage with distance. That is a skill shot:

 

Dont worry about posting gifs etc, they are going to say you are against noobs because they are not fast and they dont have a bo to move and if you want to prob something play againts them and that dont prove nothing (it happends to me).

 

[TaylorsContraction]

I don't understand what the first mini video should show us ...

I only see how you stomp noobs (seriously, you move straightforward into the face of a slow player which don't even hit you with a spam weapon at this distance and of course you are lucky and get a headshot ... ).

His point that running into a person and shoting them is pretty easy whereas in the second video, we see an actual skill shot. I think both are fine though, the newer players which he can simply walk up to will hopefully learn to move more. Whenever I see opponents doing something that is making my life difficult to aim I try to mimic it, we learn from our enemies or our mistakes.

[R3DBelmont456]

Also thats the whole point of "squisher frames", it means their defenses are very low compared to others. Like Excalibur for instance, he is very powerful but is squishy. Everything needs a advantage and atleast 1 disadvantage. 

 

EDIT: Yo R3DBelont456, are you talking to me or about me? Because I'm not asking for a nerf. :D

 

No of course not... just the people who still rage over people using the daikyu properly...

 

And also, the daikyu seems easy because as I said 1000 times, it is a  PUB stomper weapon, in the right hands it is lethal, but it is far from overpowered and you just try that "walking up to" strategy on any of the following players: Rexsol, Lord noctus, Soulz, Damedaa, Dante dewolfe, Rakshal, Soulless Ego, lvl999necromancer, x Riot... I've played against every single one of these guys at least once in FFA, and even if they can rofl stomp me to the ground I enjoy playing with them because it's fun, no QQ ing unless it's playing around and whatnot. I can safely say that  these guys practically wrote how conclave was meant to be played and I've attempted the same exact tactics that you people complain about, and let me tell you, I'll be lucky to get a positive K/D from how hard it is to get even one kill on these monsters...

 

When testing a weapon's viability you HAVE to take into consideration how it handles against experienced players as well, otherwise you'll just seem like an ignorant novice who thinks any weapon that oneshots is OP if used properly... I'll say it once and i'll say it again, after playing around with the MK-1 Paris and slapping a flight speed mod on it, I can safely say it far outlcasses the Daikyu, if DE were to nerf the daikyu anymore without properly compensating people would drop it like a Hot potato and just move on to the MK-1 Paris, that is not what a nerf should do in a Competitive game...

Edited June 10, 2015 by R3DBelmont456

[-InV-igo95862]

Soulz,

 

 

Also

 

Fixed the Daikyu having no charge limit in Conclave.

Fixed the Lucky Shot/Blind Shot Conclave Mod adding accuracy instead of decreasing it.

 

It should be harder to use now.

[Nighttide77]

Umm...  Hitting someone with an arrow at what may be considered 'long range' is more of chance and luck, than skill.  As long as players have parkour, coptering, and sliding, a player's hitboxes are always in a variety of motions.  Whether a target is hit by a projectile at long range is almost entirely dependent on factors outside of an archer's control.

 

Skill shots, imo, are equivalent to crack-shots on moving and/or small targets.  Such shots can only be performed by hitscan weapons, or close-medium projectiles.

 

In Warframe, stating that long-range projectile shots are skilled is like saying winning in slot machines entirely depends on how you pull the lever.

[climatiseur]

After reading all of your post, it shows that you are a very skilled and experienced player.

 

Having one shot potential on a hand of such a potential player only means Daikyu has its position. If even such player cannot pull out its usage, than it has no value to use at all.

[Hueminator]

Fixed the Daikyu having no charge limit in Conclave.

Fixed the Lucky Shot/Blind Shot Conclave Mod adding accuracy instead of decreasing it.

 

It should be harder to use now.

- Accuracy should definitely make it lucky shot.

 

Too bad my kohmax no longer have 100 accuracy QQ

Edited June 11, 2015 by Hueminator

[Aggh]

Umm...  Hitting someone with an arrow at what may be considered 'long range' is more of chance and luck, than skill.  As long as players have parkour, coptering, and sliding, a player's hitboxes are always in a variety of motions.  Whether a target is hit by a projectile at long range is almost entirely dependent on factors outside of an archer's control.

 

Skill shots, imo, are equivalent to crack-shots on moving and/or small targets.  Such shots can only be performed by hitscan weapons, or close-medium projectiles.

 

In Warframe, stating that long-range projectile shots are skilled is like saying winning in slot machines entirely depends on how you pull the lever.

Most of the time people you hit with long shots are coptering/pakouring up top or trying to snipe and think they're safe, they tend to move a bit more predictably so if you're able to lead properly it's not really luck.  Landing headshots with bows (especially at long range) is more luck based I'd say, but long range bow shots don't always have to be lucky.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Aggh

[Nighttide77]

but long range bow shots don't always have to be lucky.

 

>_> you mean...like some skill-based homing arrow?

[Phasedragon]

-snip-

Also

 

Fixed the Daikyu having no charge limit in Conclave.

Fixed the Lucky Shot/Blind Shot Conclave Mod adding accuracy instead of decreasing it.

 

It should be harder to use now.

 

I'm not sure what you're saying with that, but......you do realize he was already half dead, right?

[Nighttide77]

Oh...and I tend to not consider hitting players that think they're safe as skill-shots.  Sorry if that confuses anyone when I make statements.

 

People can debate over whether striking a player at long range that made themselves vulnerable for a moment is skill.  I simply don't because it's either a stationary target, or one that is jogging in a straight line.  That's more like taking opportunity of a player's weakness and lack of experience.

[R3DBelmont456]

I'm not sure what you're saying with that, but......you do realize he was already half dead, right?

I agree... a fully Charged shot with the Paris would have one shotted him as well... hence he is only further proving the point of everyone who's against the Daikyu nerf...

[Aggh]

>_> you mean...like some skill-based homing arrow?

I'm talking about knowing movement paths that players tend to take and compensating for it.  People have been doing this in Arena shooters for decades.  Next you're going to tell us that air rockets in quake are skill-less.

Edited June 11, 2015 by Aggh

[R3DBelmont456]

I'm talking about knowing movement paths that players tend to take and compensating for it.  People have been doing this in Arena shooters for decades.  Next you're going to tell us that air rockets in quake are skill-less.

 Let's not forget one shot plating someone out of the air with a Spinfusor in Tribes...

[Nighttide77]

I'm talking about knowing movement paths that players tend to take and compensating for it.  People have been doing this in Arena shooters for decades.  Next you're going to tell us that air rockets in quake are skill-less.

 

Nvm, I read your statement wrong.

 

I still maintain that WF players jogging in straight lines are just inexperienced, and that hitting them is just taking advantage of their vulnerability.  Yes, it takes some skill to lead shots at long range.  Yet, because experienced players can change directions in a split moment, actually predicting the location of such a target at long range depends on either the target leaving themselves wide open, or chance.

[Bojon]

So what about paris prime? is it still good?