Nerf Daiky Until It No Longer One Shots Squisher Frames

[Kontrollo]

So it looks like some moderator went through here deleting stuff, even if it was on-topic. Let me make a full post then.

 

No, the Daikyu should not be nerfed any further. It shouldn't have been nerfed in the first place. At least not the way it was done. All that did was give the tankier Warframes even more of an advantage over squishier Warframes (except Valkyr) and promote more undesirable playstyles, imho (using bows as shotguns).

 

Quoting myself now (instead of just linking to it) with what I said right after the nerf because it's still true:

Just to put things in context: I thought it was fine the way it was, as well.

 

So I just played it again for a round, and it doesn't feel all that different, except I think there are 4 Warframes who can survive a shot: Oberon Volt, Frost and Rhino. Not sure about Chroma. So if you think about it, that was actually an indirect buff to these four Warframes. I expect four things to happen:

 

1) Knowledgable people will gravitate towards these 4 Warframes even more than before.

 

2) Judging from the amount of threads that were made on this topic up to now, people will still come to the feedback forums and ask for further nerfs to this weapon.

 

3) Those who used this weapon before will continue to oneshot weaker Warframes like they did, and for the rest will either team up with a buddy or use a Warframe with a very reliable 1st ability (oh look: there are Volt, Frost and Oberon again).

 

4) Alternatively, they'll adopt even more of a shotgun-playstyle: draw string and copter into an enemy at close range for a guaranteed kill. Which is best done - you guessed it - with one of the more resilient Warframes.

 

 

With the ammo changes they could've nerfed the ammo reserve into the ground instead to give it another, very real drawback.

[-InV-igo95862]

 

 

No, the Daikyu should not be nerfed any further. It shouldn't have been nerfed in the first place. At least not the way it was done. All that did was give the tankier Warframes even more of an advantage over squishier Warframes (except Valkyr) and promote more undesirable playstyles, imho (using bows as shotguns).

 

 

 

The only way to remove this advantage is to nerf Daiky more. And using Daiky as shot gun as always prevalent, before or after nerf.

[Nighttide77]

Ya know...Daikyu would need a huge fire rate buff if it got nerfed to only ever two-shot...kinda like the Mk-1 Paris...

Any arguments against the Daikyu's ability to one-shot should be mixed with constructive feedback...

Otherwise, it becomes more of a debate of philosophies between whether being able to one-shot in PvP is balanced.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Nighttide77

[-InV-igo95862]

There is suggestion to make bows damage scale with distance so that high skill long range shots will be rewarded and point blank punished. With that approach I would agree for Daiky to one shot.

[Kontrollo]

The only way to remove this advantage is to nerf Daiky more. And using Daiky as shot gun as always prevalent, before or after nerf.

 

The Daikyu doesn't have much of an advantage, the other bows are already better right now.

 

And no, I've seen it used as a shotgun far more often after the nerf. Before that, I had some fun ranged duels on the CTC maps, too. Maybe it was that way in Team Annihilation? Wouldn't be able to comment on it because I rarely play that mode. In Annihilation shotguns were and are more prevalent in CQC, in any case. In my experience, the Daikyu players usually tried to evade, flank and take advantage of ongoing duels.

 

Also, there are other ways to nerf a weapon. My preferred one for the Daikyu would probably be reverse falloff. But because that isn't going to happen unless they soften up their guidelines, I'd be fine with reducing the total ammo pool to 2 or 3 arrows, as well. That way you'd have to really make each shot count and rely on your secondary far more often (which wouldn't be a problem with the really fast weapon switch times we have now).

 

It's just that with the draw time this weapon has, it needs to one-shot to be a viable alternative to the other bows.

 

Edit:

daikyu has not charge limit anymore, i hope it is a bug

 

Just dug my Daikyu out again for a round of PvE and PvP each, and strangely the charge limit is still there in PvE, but I can confirm it's gone in the Conclave.

Edited June 9, 2015 by Kontrollo

[-NyriX-]

The only way to remove this advantage is to nerf Daiky more. And using Daiky as shot gun as always prevalent, before or after nerf.

 

I kindly ask that you read or re-read my post slightly above. It literally disproves everything you're saying.

[rockscl]

 

 

i think that daikyu is viable, (if you can hit n copter into the enemy), i hope its charge limit removal is a bug, but i will not support more nerfs on this particular bow since its mechanic makes it so vulnerable against melee that getting kills in close range is more on the victim side than in the user for going into cqc with guns after having eaten arrows more than once, like they say, humans are the only animal who fells for the same stone more than once, looking for advantage in situations that are 90% chasing while vision tunneled, if the player who dies cant have a more complex strategy than the daikyu user then he deserves to get killed

Edited June 9, 2015 by rockscl

[Lukap99]

"DAIKY OP NERF PLOZ"

Alternatively: Get a Daiky and see if it's as easy as it seems.

[-NyriX-]

 but daikyu is viable, (if you can hit n copter into the enemy),

 

Right... but it doesn't happen against most players. As I mentioned, 90% of the players who I hit, run away because they panic or want to regen. Melee at that point is useless and you wont manage to switch to your secondary on time. All you can do is either hope you encounter him again later, accept your death fate, or hope that someone else gets the assist.

[Aggh]

Right... but it doesn't happen against most players. As I mentioned, 90% of the players who I hit, run away because they panic or want to regen. Melee at that point is useless and you wont manage to switch to your secondary on time. All you can do is either hope you encounter him again later, accept your death fate, or hope that someone else gets the assist.

Most mid to close range tags can easily be finished with a slide attack from most melee weapons.  If they run, there are only so many health drops so it's not hard to figure out where they're going which makes the second shot a lot easier. 

 

The only case where I'd say daikyu is completely garbage is CTF since flag runners aren't forced to get kills to win the match.

[-NyriX-]

Most mid to close range tags can easily be finished with a slide attack from most melee weapons.  If they run, there are only so many health drops so it's not hard to figure out where they're going which makes the second shot a lot easier. 

 

The only case where I'd say daikyu is completely garbage is CTF since flag runners aren't forced to get kills to win the match.

Doesn't solve the more common problem of casts and spams. 

 

At the speed the guys run away after being hit, it's almost impossible getting a melee in. Sure, it does happen and I've become used to doing it, but it's not really an overall effective strategy. 

[rockscl]

Doesn't solve the more common problem of casts and spams. 

 

At the speed the guys run away after being hit, it's almost impossible getting a melee in. Sure, it does happen and I've become used to doing it, but it's not really an overall effective strategy. 

 

energy shouldnt be part of this, you could have energy too making bows look op because nothing would survive #1+arrow while you can cast and charge the arrow at the same time with frost, volt, ember, ¿oberon?

Edited June 9, 2015 by rockscl

[Cerenax]

Lies. I just crafted Daiky and tested it. You can hold it indefinitely.

 

Only on PvE.

[-InV-igo95862]

Only on PvE.

 

No. I played yesterday with Daiky in PvP. It can be hold forever.

[Feyangol]

No. I played yesterday with Daiky in PvP. It can be hold forever.

Nope, 5 seconds.

If you were able to hold it longer, than it would be a bug, which noone of us ever had ...

[Holeypaladin]

One hit kills are lame when you can simply charge your shot before engaging and instantly kill your opponent.

[R3DBelmont456]

One hit kills are lame when you can simply charge your shot before engaging and instantly kill your opponent.

 

That's assuming you can Hit your target... everyone here apparently thinks the daikyu has auto aim or something...

[-InV-igo95862]

Nope, 5 seconds.

If you were able to hold it longer, than it would be a bug, which noone of us ever had ...

 

 

I held it for more than 20 seconds

Edited June 9, 2015 by igo95862

[Nighttide77]

That's assuming you can Hit your target... everyone here apparently thinks the daikyu has auto aim or something...

 

I dunno if this topic is worth discussing, anymore, man...  I'm just waiting for a hitscan sniper and everyone to rage about how headshots are OP...at which point I hope DE doesn't give such players any mind.

 

Oh, I forgot one thing to mention...maybe Daikyu got a nerf to only one-shot half of frames currently in Conclave because it also has punch-through...which I have absolutely made use of ^_^  Love hitting enemies hiding behind cover.  I may not use non-punch-through weapons simply for the ability to hit enemies I otherwise wouldn't have.

[-InV-igo95862]

"DAIKY OP NERF PLOZ"

Alternatively: Get a Daiky and see if it's as easy as it seems.

 

Despite me missing 90% of shots I still manage to come ahead in conclave against medium skill level players. I played a game recently against really high skill players and still managed to finish top three with positive kill/death. I can post a video.

[R3DBelmont456]

I just finished doing several matches with the MK-1 Paris and I have to say the daikyu definitely doesn't need a nerf... The MK-1 Paris Beyond Outclasses the Daikyu now after the nerf because it can two shot twice as quickly, and it can still one shot if the person is weak or you combo into it... the last match I did in FFA with it, I quite literally cleared an entire room (got 5 kills in a row) within seconds... something you couldn't do with the daikyu because of having to shoot it every 2 seconds... Therefore the Daikyu is just a Pubstomper like many weps in Conclave, but it is FAR from OP...

[-InV-igo95862]

I just finished doing several matches with the MK-1 Paris and I have to say the daikyu definitely doesn't need a nerf... The MK-1 Paris Beyond Outclasses the Daikyu now after the nerf because it can two shot twice as quickly, and it can still one shot if the person is weak or you combo into it... the last match I did in FFA with it, I quite literally cleared an entire room (got 5 kills in a row) within seconds... something you couldn't do with the daikyu because of having to shoot it every 2 seconds... Therefore the Daikyu is just a Pubstomper like many weps in Conclave, but it is FAR from OP...

 

Except that you need to hit it twice. Enemy can retreat between your two shots.

 

I am pretty sure that one shot plus combo won't finish tankiest warframes.

 

And MK-1 Paris has no punch through.

[R3DBelmont456]

Except that you need to hit it twice. Enemy can retreat between your two shots.

 

I am pretty sure that one shot plus combo won't finish tankiest warframes.

 

And MK-1 Paris has no punch through.

 

Actually it does, I've gotten two for ones with the MK-1 Paris... and you're wrong, I've oneshot bodyshot tanky frames and combo'd frames that can also tank the daikyu with the paris, the result is the paris FAR outclasses the daikyu (stick a flightspeed mod and you can't tell the difference, I even freaking two shot sniped someone from across the map) and it's 3 times faster, also I'd like to see anyone try to run away unless they're godly if I can pelt them or combo them way quicker than I could with the daikyu... All your arguments just scream Daikyu hate (same as all the salty kogake haters), you don't take into consideration at all that it is now outclassed by a basic bow, and I only say this because I've been constantly testing them against pros and not against cannon fodder (no offense to the newbies...), so please stop trying to justify a nerf that is as much needed as a Tigris nerf (and I've even tried using this, it may be able to one shot at point blank range, but having only 4 salvos total is just incredibly painful... in DOOM 2 you had  50 shots with the double barrel shotgun, idk what the hell DE is thinking with giving the tigris such a stupidly low ammo count)

Edited June 10, 2015 by R3DBelmont456

[Lyraius]

Despite me missing 90% of shots I still manage to come ahead in conclave against medium skill level players. I played a game recently against really high skill players and still managed to finish top three with positive kill/death. I can post a video.

Oh oh, play against me please, no 4th powers as it is mostly an instant kill. Only daikyu? agreed? 

[R3DBelmont456]

Oh oh, play against me please, no 4th powers as it is mostly an instant kill. Only daikyu? agreed? 

 

I just don't understand the QQing... People these days get so buthurt over getting destroyed by good players that they cry nerf every single time without even trying to learn the game... had this been the attitude people had in the days of Quake, people would be shooting rubber ducks out of their rocker launchers...

Edited June 10, 2015 by R3DBelmont456