Everyone's Favorite Rift Themed Frame Isn't Exactly The Best Frame...

[Ironlixivium]

     He's really bad. :/

 

     Honestly, he's worse than ember. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean killing power, I was referring to survivability and effect on the battlefield (simultaneously, no "oh he can be unaffected by everything then lower his only defense to fight"). The only way limbo can be viable is if you're with a frame that works well with him. But if he's support, why is his damage boost so selfish? What exactly was he even designed to be? (Please, DE, if you could spare some time to answer that, it would be great and much appreciated) Meanwhile, though, he could use a buff, my suggestions would be:

 

• Lower cast times to where they currently would be with natural talent. He's a caster frame, so he shouldn't have long casts.

 

• Remove rift walk's animation, it should be instant, like volt's speed. This is necessary for switching dimensions at a moments notice, something that I really feel like he should be able to do.

 

• Make all enemies in the rift receive 200% damage, as if rift surge is constantly on. Replace it with a cc ability, like a "rift pulse", have him build up rift energy then release it, pushing back and ragdolling enemies inside the rift within 25 meters or something, just and idea though.

 

• Make cataclysm effect items.

 

That's all, thanks for reading.

 

Edit: forgot to add, whatever he gets for a 3rd ability, I hope it only is effective in the rift, to fit his current theme of being an Ordinary-Joe most of the time, then bam! You're in the rift, you play by limbo's rules now. I really enjoy that about the current version, except our current version doesn't really have all that much "bam"... Also I would appreciate some damage reduction while in the rift, like 40% or something.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Ironlixivium

[Impact6]

I don't agree with it, yet I agree with it. So +1.

[Jag272]

Your first paragraph worried me as I don't find him that bad personally, I quite enjoy him and still find him useful.

 

That said, your suggested changes all match up with what I would expect of him and are pretty balanced so I take no issues with them. Especially on the cataclysm items front, I though they said right after release they were investigating changing that, what ever happened to that?

[counterflux]

He needs a little rework soo badly.

 

Please also do something about the emergy cost of banish or the CC of cataclysm.

It's just almost impossible to fight higher level content as he is now. Damn squichyness.

Or some damage reduction to limbo while he's in the rift?

Edited June 10, 2015 by counterflux

[Ironlixivium]

He needs a little soo rework badly.

 

Please also do something about the emergy cost of banish or the CC of cataclysm.

It's just almost impossible to fight higher level content as he is now. Damn squichyness.

Or some damage reduction to limbo while he's in the rift?

 

Yeah, hopefully some rift DR, or really good cc with his 3, whatever they do to him, I hope they make it so its only effective in the rift, lol.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Ironlixivium

[Zirion_Bk]

I usually play him in a way where I stay in the rift and single out my targets until the major threats are dead before cataclysming and killing the rest. Works pretty well for me. I can agree with the suggested Rift Walk change though.

[Stormandreas]

Er..... NO, Limbo is NOT useless.

Limbo is a Support/Single enemy killing style. You run around in the rift, banishing or Cataclysm if necessary, picking out key enemies and destroying them.
Not only that, Limbo is BETTER at defence than Frost, especially with Mesa. Cataclysm on the pod, mesa inside, and you reduce the energy drain to a near halt, AND you have ultimate protection against ranged damage.

Limbo is the hardest and most skillful frame to play, he's not useless.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Stormandreas

[Ironlixivium]

Er..... NO.

Limbo is a Support/Single enemy killing style. You run around in the rift, banishing or Cataclysm if necessary, picking out key enemies and destroying them.

Not only that, Limbo is BETTER at defence than Frost, especially with Mesa. Cataclysm on the pod, mesa inside, and you reduce the energy drain to a near halt, AND you have ultimate protection against ranged damage.

Limbo is the hardest and most skillful frame to play, he's not useless.

 

Right, so he's for picking out enemies to destroy, yet he's the worst at 1v1 combat...you don't see the problem with that?

 

     Yeah, he can rift the pod, but then something gets near. He provides no cc, something frost does provide. Besides, frost is getting a buff, saying limbo is better than frost isn't saying anything. A frost that keeps his globe up is still better than limbo at defense, since you can shoot out of his globe and have cc near the pod. Limbo isn't better at defense :/

 

     I believe I mentioned that he's only good with frames that can use his abilities. That's a huge issue. Even trinity gets the most out of her own abilities, why does limbo have to seek out a frame that can use his to be good?

 

     The thing with this "more skillful gameplay" stuff you and so many others are overlooking is that something that requires skill should outdo those that don't if skill is a applied. Tonkor follows this rule and is perfectly balanced. Is limbo better than any other frame with skill applied? Nope. :/ He needs a buff.

[SmashingGudTime]

Limbo can be used many ways and is no where near as bad as ember, he just has a high skill ceiling. I suggest maxing out ur primed mods, spend a few days playing him full time and you'll discover he has endless potential.   

[Telluric]

hey there, friendo!! i have three different builds for limbo posted to my blog, if you want to check them out. all of them take abilities, casting times, and cataclysm usefulness into account. [link]

 

it might not be what you're looking for, but it could be helpful!! i really love limbo a lot and have put a little bit more time into make a couple builds for him than i have for any other frame.

[Ironlixivium]

Limbo can be used many ways and is no where near as bad as ember, he just has a high skill ceiling. I suggest maxing out ur primed mods, spend a few days playing him full time and you'll discover he has endless potential.   

 

     Heh, oh don't worry, you aren't talking to some noob who got his limbo to level 10 and decided he was underpowered. I have two forma in mine, and would put in more if I hadn't realized that he has too many flaws to cover AND give him a good casting build. The only frames I haven't played for over 24 hours are excalibur (soon to change, in u17) and saryn. Even with my two forma build, I still find that ember can provide more in cc than limbo can in all his abilities. (my ember has one forma)

 

hey there, friendo!! i have three different builds for limbo posted to my blog, if you want to check them out. all of them take abilities, casting times, and cataclysm usefulness into account. [link]

 

it might not be what you're looking for, but it could be helpful!! i really love limbo a lot and have put a little bit more time into make a couple builds for him than i have for any other frame.

 

     I love him too ^_^ one of my favorite frames in looks and theme, I just find that he lacks the power of a killing frame and the utility of a high level support.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Ironlixivium

[Zirion_Bk]

Right, so he's for picking out enemies to destroy, yet he's the worst at 1v1 combat...you don't see the problem with that?

 

     Yeah, he can rift the pod, but then something gets near. He provides no cc, something frost does provide. Besides, frost is getting a buff, saying limbo is better than frost isn't saying anything. A frost that keeps his globe up is still better than limbo at defense, since you can shoot out of his globe and have cc near the pod. Limbo isn't better at defense :/

 

     I believe I mentioned that he's only good with frames that can use his abilities. That's a huge issue. Even trinity gets the most out of her own abilities, why does limbo have to seek out a frame that can use his to be good?

 

     The thing with this "more skillful gameplay" stuff you and so many others are overlooking is that something that requires skill should outdo those that don't if skill is a applied. Tonkor follows this rule and is perfectly balanced. Is limbo better than any other frame with skill applied? Nope. :/ He needs a buff.

Worst at 1v1 combat... How? Rift Walk, Rift Surge, Banish, ground finisher. Done.

[Ironlixivium]

Worst at 1v1 combat... How? Rift Walk, Rift Surge, Banish, ground finisher. Done.

 

     You're including isolation into this, I'm not, because most frames have the cc to create pseudo-isolation anyway, in fact, most frames' cc is op in 1v1. My point is that if you include how isolation is cancelled out by the cc most other frames have, you'll see that he's VERY bad at 1v1. It's easy to knock down an enemy, just use a slam attack, so that cannot be listed as a perk of his either. Now, all he has is a 200% damage boost? And what if it doesn't kill them? You're screwed.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Ironlixivium

[(PSN)SteampunkJester]

I agree with OP's suggestions, though I'm still firmly in the camp that says that Limbo needs a full rework.

[Ironlixivium]

I agree with OP's suggestions, though I'm still firmly in the camp that says that Limbo needs a full rework.

 

     What exactly do you mean "full rework"? o.0 you mean, like, take the idea and go somewhere else with it? I feel like that would be better left to a new frame, lol.

[mishmashmarsh]

Limbo bad, change good :P +1

[(NSW)LilVanu]

I hate how when I used my Banish on a toxic eximus it still managed to proc through the rift.

If they fixed this so I can single out tricky enemies that would be my build as a

"Pick off the worst enemies" Support type of frame but nope... still hits from within the void... *sobs*

 

I want to love limbo... why is it so hard?

[Ironlixivium]

I want to love limbo... why is it so hard?

 

T~T the story of my post-limbo-warframe-life

 

We already have a frame that picks off enemies one by one btw, and she's kinda way better at it :/ valkyr

 

     Paralyze/ripline and rip some heads off until they stop squirming. Limbo get's one chance and if you botch it you have to abort and retry if you like being alive. 

 

     I really hope DE takes my suggestions, it'd open limbo's horizons so much.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Ironlixivium

[TronRinzlerAnon]

I do not agree with what the OP has said about Limbo being terrible. It's all about how you play him and yes he is not very versitile at least for how i play. The two things i agree on the most is that rift walk should have the animation removed so it is instant or just dang near with an animation would be good for me and second cataclysm just doesnt do enough dmg to be viable for anything but defensive purposes. Some one else in the comments mentioned the toxic ancients, and those bug me as well, banishment causes enemies to be harmless to those not in the rift yet they toxic proc you to death; that's no good. I have yet to get the augments for him other than haven but having tested a full strength build i dont think they will do much better. The best my strength build did was kill smaller enemies which due to the vast ammount of them sapped all of my energy and it would near kill or just hurt higher lvl enemies.

Limbo is pretty good as is if you use him right especially on exterminate or on def missions. I do T4 def all the time with a mesa in my cataclysm as i run around in rift with an atmos or amprex ans slide in to kill the nulifiers. With a squad he's all about hit and run tactics and from what i can tell no matter what you do with his abilities they just aren't meant for straight up killing as is. With the way i play i dont mind that but i do have a desire to add some versatility to him.

Here is my build and stats along with some info.

Edited June 10, 2015 by TronRinzlerAnon

[Ironlixivium]

I do not agree with what the OP has said about Limbo being terrible. It's all about how you play him and yes he is not very versitile. The two things i agree on the most is that rift walk should have the animation removed so it is instant or just dang near with an animation would be good for me and second cataclysm just doesnt do enough dmg to be viable for anything but defensive purposes. I have yet to get the augments for him other than haven but having tested a full strength build i dont think they will do much better. 

Limbo is pretty good as is if you use him right especially on exterminate or on def missions. I do T4 def all the time with a mesa in my cataclysm as i run around in rift with an atmos or amprex to kill the nulifiers. With a squad he's all about hit and run tactics and from what i can tell no matter what you do with his abilities they just arent meant for killing as is. With the way i play i dont mind that but i do have a desire to add some versatility to him.

Here is my build and stats along with some info.

 

     But if he's not for killing, why does he have a skill that doubles his damage AND an aug that raises it even higher? This is why I added in the question for DE :/ I'm confused as to what he's ACTUALLY supposed to do. For example; ember is supposed to be a killing machine, but I actually realized she's much better and cqc cc :D I want to like limbo, but I don't even know what he's supposed to be.

[(PSN)SteampunkJester]

     But if he's not for killing, why does he have a skill that doubles his damage AND an aug that raises it even higher? This is why I added in the question for DE :/ I'm confused as to what he's ACTUALLY supposed to do. For example; ember is supposed to be a killing machine, but I actually realized she's much better and cqc cc :D I want to like limbo, but I don't even know what he's supposed to be.

 

Most people would tell you a "single target assassin", but honestly I don't know why you'd need someone like that in a game where you're fighting legions at a time.

[Ironlixivium]

Most people would tell you a "single target assassin", but honestly I don't know why you'd need someone like that in a game where you're fighting legions at a time.

 

     Yeah, and valkyr does that much better anyway :/ more finishers, faster, while being legitimately invincible, as opposed to the pseudo-invincibility that people claim limbo has. 

[Stormandreas]

Right, so he's for picking out enemies to destroy, yet he's the worst at 1v1 combat...you don't see the problem with that?

 

     Yeah, he can rift the pod, but then something gets near. He provides no cc, something frost does provide. Besides, frost is getting a buff, saying limbo is better than frost isn't saying anything. A frost that keeps his globe up is still better than limbo at defense, since you can shoot out of his globe and have cc near the pod. Limbo isn't better at defense :/

 

     I believe I mentioned that he's only good with frames that can use his abilities. That's a huge issue. Even trinity gets the most out of her own abilities, why does limbo have to seek out a frame that can use his to be good?

 

     The thing with this "more skillful gameplay" stuff you and so many others are overlooking is that something that requires skill should outdo those that don't if skill is a applied. Tonkor follows this rule and is perfectly balanced. Is limbo better than any other frame with skill applied? Nope. :/ He needs a buff.

Limbo amplifies his damage, so can easily one shot anything he chucks into the rift.

Limbo provides more protection than frost, even with constant globing, and combine it with Vauban with Repelling Bastille, and you have an ultimate defence combo that can't be bested, so yes, Limbo is better for defending (and powers still work.

Limbo is made to be a support field manipulation frame, not healing, or direct buffing. There are multiple different types of support, and Limbo's is perfectly viable.

Ok, so when that Escalation Tac alert went on, everything just thought, Valkyr, great, I'll be immortal. Me, I went LIMBO, and protected my ENTIRE TEAM. Not one person died, we got more kills than average, AND I was one shotting level 150 enemies by stunning them with Banish and Ground finishing them. Limbo, again, is not useless, he just requires thought and skill to use, something many players don't actually do, as they just go for the default teams everyone else uses. (for example, try running Limbo, Mesa, Mirage and Repelling Bastille Vauban. I garuntee you, even with a semi-public team, you can reliably get to wave 80 on a T4 Def)

[Ironlixivium]

Limbo amplifies his damage, so can easily one shot anything he chucks into the rift.

Limbo provides more protection than frost, even with constant globing, and combine it with Vauban with Repelling Bastille, and you have an ultimate defence combo that can't be bested, so yes, Limbo is better for defending (and powers still work.

Limbo is made to be a support field manipulation frame, not healing, or direct buffing. There are multiple different types of support, and Limbo's is perfectly viable.

Ok, so when that Escalation Tac alert went on, everything just thought, Valkyr, great, I'll be immortal. Me, I went LIMBO, and protected my ENTIRE TEAM. Not one person died, we got more kills than average, AND I was one shotting level 150 enemies by stunning them with Banish and Ground finishing them. Limbo, again, is not useless, he just requires thought and skill to use, something many players don't actually do, as they just go for the default teams everyone else uses. (for example, try running Limbo, Mesa, Mirage and Repelling Bastille Vauban. I garuntee you, even with a semi-public team, you can reliably get to wave 80 on a T4 Def)

 

     Damage doesn't go as far as you'd think. As I already stated, I was able to kill a level 80 heavy gunner with my ember, but not my limbo, due to how limbo has close to 0 utility he can actually use. 

 

Not really, seeing as anything that gets too close is free to shoot the pod with no limitations. Plus the part where your teammates can't shoot out.

 

     There's a reason I focused on limbo alone and not with teammates. First because you shouldn't have to hunt down a certain frame every time you want to play limbo, and second, because I've gone down this road at least 5 times already. People bring up a frame combo, I bring up loki and nova. I'm not saying limbo should be press-4-to-win frames like them, I'm just saying that frame combos don't represent an individual frame's power. Loki and nova are actually perfectly balanced in solo missions, but together they're op. Limbo is bad in solo missions and viable in coop with the correct frames....

 

     Support for what? What is he supporting? My issue with him is that he can't support himself. I know he can support other frames. My point was that even our support frame can support itself, why can't limbo, who was never even hinted to being a support frame?

 

     You can also keep everyone safe with a disarm loki. By the way, your team was using CP, there's no way you actually killed those without it. Yes, I know, I ran that alert twice, once without cp and once with it.

 

     Again, you can't tell me limbo is balanced because limbo + x is balanced. :/ Why do you think nova and loki haven't been nerfed? sure, they're op together, but if you run a solo mission with them, you'll find that even a max slow nova must be careful. The same goes for a max stealth loki build. Heck, a speed nova, disarm loki, and vauban can run a t4d faster than you would believe is possible, but they still aren't op :/

[Zavenosk]

     Damage doesn't go as far as you'd think. As I already stated, I was able to kill a level 80 heavy gunner with my ember, but not my limbo, due to how limbo has close to 0 utility he can actually use. 

 

Not really, seeing as anything that gets too close is free to shoot the pod with no limitations. Plus the part where your teammates can't shoot out.

 

     There's a reason I focused on limbo alone and not with teammates. First because you shouldn't have to hunt down a certain frame every time you want to play limbo, and second, because I've gone down this road at least 5 times already. People bring up a frame combo, I bring up loki and nova. I'm not saying limbo should be press-4-to-win frames like them, I'm just saying that frame combos don't represent an individual frame's power. Loki and nova are actually perfectly balanced in solo missions, but together they're op. Limbo is bad in solo missions and viable in coop with the correct frames....

 

     Support for what? What is he supporting? My issue with him is that he can't support himself. I know he can support other frames. My point was that even our support frame can support itself, why can't limbo, who was never even hinted to being a support frame?

 

     You can also keep everyone safe with a disarm loki. By the way, your team was using CP, there's no way you actually killed those without it. Yes, I know, I ran that alert twice, once without cp and once with it.

 

     Again, you can't tell me limbo is balanced because limbo + x is balanced. :/ Why do you think nova and loki haven't been nerfed? sure, they're op together, but if you run a solo mission with them, you'll find that even a max slow nova must be careful. The same goes for a max stealth loki build. Heck, a speed nova, disarm loki, and vauban can run a t4d faster than you would believe is possible, but they still aren't op :/

I would like to say that i feel like Limbo is viable in solo.  He isn't Loki or Nova by any means, but his bag of tricks are formidable in solo situations, and when used properly can excel in most solo situations.   While i am not arguing against the point that Limbo is formidable in certain pair ups, i argue that the co-ordination that would be necessary to make Limbo as he currently is generally viable in group situations is too scarce.  And when the coordination isn't present, Banish and Cataclysm are reduced to troll skills.  This leaves Limbo with one skill to use his energy on when in typical PUGs.

 

 

     But if he's not for killing, why does he have a skill that doubles his damage AND an aug that raises it even higher? This is why I added in the question for DE :/ I'm confused as to what he's ACTUALLY supposed to do. For example; ember is supposed to be a killing machine, but I actually realized she's much better and cqc cc :D I want to like limbo, but I don't even know what he's supposed to be.

 

Ignore skill #3, pretend it doesn't exist.  Then you will be one large step closer to using Limbo properly.  

Edited June 10, 2015 by Zezakh