Psa:ophelia And Hydriod Pilfer Swarm Nerf Hotfix 17.0.4. Warframe's Issue:farming And The Unhealthy Progression Of This Game.

[aoguro]

i mentioned it allready in a similar thread:

 

the moment we are born we farm every breath we do, every thing we eat or drink, we are continously farming since the moment we are alive and born in our bodies and doing the first breath or scream the moment we are born =))))))

 

so why should gaming industry give us everything for free ?

 

be happy if you get concious about your waste of time and money doing internet games, but enjoy the time where you do it and as long as you do it =))) even this will pass by and be forgotten ,-)

[AlphaHorseman]

i mentioned it allready in a similar thread:

 

the moment we are born we farm every breath we do, every thing we eat or drink, we are continously farming since the moment we are alive and born in our bodies and doing the first breath or scream the moment we are born =))))))

 

so why should gaming industry give us everything for free ?

 

be happy if you get concious about your waste of time and money doing internet games, but enjoy the time where you do it and as long as you do it =))) even this will pass by and be forgotten ,-)

Because some of us play video games to escape reality, not to have video games double whammy us with the same things we tried to escape in real life.

[aoguro]

Because some of us play video games to escape reality, not to have video games double whammy us with the same things we tried to escape in real life.

 

i dont think there is a possibillity to escape anything we have created, even playing internetgames for =))

 

i really cant ... ))

 

so you try to farm yourself off reality ? nice try ... no sarcasm or zynism here

 

 

There's a vine up by Steve on his Vine account that has the U17 build notes. Might wanna check it out!

 

link please ,-)

Edited July 30, 2015 by 3QUINOX

[AlphaHorseman]

i dont think there is a possibillity to escape anything we have created, even playing internetgames for =))

 

i really cant ... ))

 

 

 

link please ,-)

...The point of a feedback forum is to give feedback on the game, and this is our opinion, although I guess that one is yours as well.

 

https://vine.co/v/eXv9hg9wQFW

 

https://twitter.com/sj_sinclair

[SickoSike]

i dont think there is a possibillity to escape anything we have created, even playing internetgames for =))

 

i really cant ... ))

 

so you try to farm yourself off reality ? nice try ... no sarcasm or zynism here

 

 

 

link please ,-)

The main point Alpha was trying to say, is that the game at the very moment is giving us very limited options into having fun, most of us already have a job to worry about, family, food, car insurance, phone bills gas bills, studies and anything that tries to consumes us in reality and the stress that everyone gets on a daily basis we don't need to vent our fustrations into Warframe, we want to have fun and we want this game to be the very best game along with Digital Extremes.

[AlphaHorseman]

The main point Alpha was trying to say, is that the game at the very moment is giving us very limited options into having fun, most of us already have a job to worry about, family, food, car insurance, phone bills gas bills, studies and anything that tries to consumes us in reality and the stress that everyone gets on a daily basis we don't need to vent our fustrations into Warframe, we want to have fun and we want this game to be the very best game along with Digital Extremes.

Nailed it right on the head!

[aoguro]

The main point Alpha was trying to say, is that the game at the very moment is giving us very limited options into having fun, most of us already have a job to worry about, family, food, car insurance, phone bills gas bills, studies and anything that tries to consumes us in reality and the stress that everyone gets on a daily basis we don't need to vent our fustrations into Warframe, we want to have fun and we want this game to be the very best game along with Digital Extremes.

 

me too, me too =)

we could even buy tons of cores and level up the mods, i will not do that, a few thousand bucks wasted in pixels is not what im aiming for

 

there would not be fun, only 5tupidity if somebody do it

 

the other side of the coin is that DE would have to give us smth different then farming, but then we should get a different art of game, open world with dlcs and a clear story

 

i dont think that DE and we would have another choice right now

 

and then we are back on simple economy, even that its not simple for the most of us

 

i think the basement of warframe is smth like a byproduct out of the daily advertising job DE does, its a guess, i dont know really

 

and then warframe was growing and now its too late for a change

 

so, maybe we get a brandnew warframe as well as i dont think so

 

now we could discuss on what would be better, as well as its DE's business and income, not ours

 

im shure lots of people at DE need their money as we need ours ...

 

and again, where to go with this theme ?

Edited July 30, 2015 by 3QUINOX

[SickoSike]

-snip-

We will see, I'm hoping for some real changes, like the Parkour 2.0 will be a step in the right direction along with some warframes re-work and a re-look at weighted RNG tables when they start tackling starchart 3.0! Update 17 hype!

[SickoSike]

let me know what you guys think of the pilfer swarm nerf.

Edit: well up-coming nerf.

Edited August 6, 2015 by MikeTheAshmigo

[Tesseract7777]

It's not a nerf... 

[SickoSike]

It's not a nerf... 

explain how it is not a nerf directly to Pilfer Swarm augment mod with hydriod's tentacle swarm's abilities?

[SickoSike]

Honestly I still don't see a reason why pilfer swarm needs a nerf, all because of a tile exploited that seems to be DE's fault for allowing players to take advantage

[SickoSike]

Hydriod
I've decided to update the thread once again, and this time it's to inform and educate people who think pilfering swarm wasn't nerfed, and had the mind and thought to think that it works now, and benefits players more in the late game while it is true that now the pilfering swarm mod allows for 2x(before it was 4x with max powerstrength) the amount of loot and can now be built into duration, and enemies do not have to necessarily die to the tentacle rather on it which specifically has been stated by DE Rebecca earlier, I want everyone to realize, that this augment mod is not as useful as it seems to be now, because before the nerf on this augment mod there were several issues that tied with hydriod spamming Tentacle swarm such as tentacles not be able to touch enemies well with aDURATION BUILD, this led to players building up max powerstrength for max loot with LEAST DURATION. Molecular prime not being able to re-roll loot and Sayrn's Miasma as well because the corpse would disappear as soon as the Nukerframes and Molecular prime trigger on the corpse would disappear so these farming tactics people are coming up with now after this hotfix WILL NOT WORK.

1. Pre-nerf Pilfering Swarm scaled with powerstrength.
Additional loot can calculated through Chance * (1 + Power Strength).
Maxed Pilfering Swarm (Chance = 100%), and 30% Power Strength will result in 130% additional loot. This means that enemies will always roll loot 2 times, and have a 30% chance to roll loot an additional time.
With enough Power Strength (+184% at max), it is possible to force enemies to drop up to 4 times the amount of drops.
Works against Ospreys and other flying enemies.


2. Tentacles will not accurately be able to touch enemies as you build a fully duration pilfer swarm tentacle.


Take a look at this picture now with the pilfer swarm augment mod now, you and your team decide to farm a specific location, whether it would be through a sewer in survival camp, or farming for neurol sensors now on IO Jupiter or any of the darksectors tied with it. 12 tentacles now, not affecting any enemies directly through kills and only providing 2x amount of drops if enemies die to the tentacle, I want everyone to realize why a duration timer with max range Tentacle Swarm is bad, mainly because the 12 tentacles that pop out with this augment mod focuses primarily first on targets that were spawned near the location of Hydriod and is random, that being said, once enemies have been killed you can now reap 2x rewards from it, not too bad right? The problem now is that the tentacles will have a very hard time trying to touch other enemies, there were many instances with pre-nerf Pilfer Swarm tentacles with duration build of enemies walking past by tentacles like it was all okay, this led to players building with a least duration build, to more effectively be able to spam the ability and have more accuracy in picking up enemies from where they are at, because based on tentacle swarm, 12 tentacles have a high chance to spawn underneath an enemy or osprey but it won't always do that, and many times tentacles spawn areas in where it wouldn't touch enemies, and players would then have to wait out the duration to be able to replace the tentacles to a more proper position.

3. Least duration, pilfering swarm build today. The whole and main point of this hotfix, was to stomp on Ophelia's lootcave that many players were abusing with Hydriod, the main nerf was that the powerstrength no longer stacks with the tentacles, rendering Hydriod to be a secondary and less effective Nekros. Tentacles will now have to be spammed with only 2x chance of drops if they die on the tentacle, a duration build would not be effective to keep up with how enemies are positioned to attack the enemies, based on the randomized spawn of tentacles not being able to properly reach enemies to begin with. The Big Nerf of this hotfix was the power strength guys. Please do take notes from this.

That being said, I wish you all a good day, and happy farming, requiescat in pace Hydriod. Another victim of a larger issue that DE still hasn't solved with the puzzle of how they want their game to be, fun or grindy to no end.

an update to anyone who still says Hydriod augment mod was not nerfed.

[DrBorris]

Warframe=Grind

 

We all know it, but contrary to popular belief the grind is a good thing (well, it can be a good thing).

 

The point of Warframe is to acquire items, and this in itself is different from many games. There is no true Progression in the tiers of Weapons, Warframes, and other items, the only point in playing Warframe is to try new things out and have fun. This, as a concept, sounds awesome. Rather than forcing players into a tier of ranking up, a concept such as his puts the f word (fun) before any sorts of tiers. The issue is with the current iteration of "the grind". In the OP it says camping is fine, and while I agree that camping as a loose term is fine, if you are standing in one spot and spamming abilities mindlessly it is not fine. DE wants to make the grind as fun as possible, so when a new way to grind comes up that is superior to their eyes of "fun" they nerf it so that the best way to farm is also fun.

 

I am going to repeat that again in another paragraph to try and dig a bit deeper. DE is trying their darn hardest to be the good guy. What we keep looking at as "nerfs" are DE's attempt to make "the grind" fun. DE acknowledges that the game is about the grind, so of course they want the grind to be as fun as possible. When a new form of grinding comes up that is not fun and far outclasses the "fun" forms of farming, of course DE is going to try to kill it. They want the most intense grind to also be fun.

 

That can be argued both ways though, a lot of people are saying that DE should just make the loot caves also fun. However, there must be a line somewhere for our efficiency. How much more efficient should an organized group be able to grind? 2 times as fast? 3? 4? 5? This is where the view of the community and DE seems to generally take a split. As players of a game, of course we want to get stuff as fast as possible, but we have to understand that there is such thing as too fast. Loot grinding at 5x the speed of another organized group that does not have a certain frame is a bit extreme. In my opinion, an group with teamwork should get about 2x the loot and a group with teamwork and organized frames should be getting 3x. We were capable of stupidly high loot drops with pifl Hydroid, we have to admit that, but DE did overnerf it a bit.

 

 

So... we all want the grind to be fun, right? But if we actually want that we need to be able to view it from DE's point of view and see that there is such thing as too fast. I would think the easiest way of alleviating some of the issues is reworking spawning, right now camping gives far too much of an advantage. Running and gunning should be able to lead to the same amount of spawns if not more than camping in one spot. That SHOULD be the tradeoff. When everyone goes alone they should put themselves at grater risk, but allow for a greater reward of more spawns. Right now Camping is easier AND more efficient.

​

[SickoSike]

-snip-

​

Agreed!

however due to many players, with different ideas, many players are willing to sacrifice fun, for maximum efficiency farming, and I understand where you're coming from when people are exploiting maps and mashing only a few buttons to play a game, but unfortunately, it's become one of the many play styles players had adapted since Vivergate came out.

it's one way to play the game, and for me I honestly want to nerf that and reward players more for actually playing the game rather than advocate the decision to just key mash a few buttons in one spot to win everything.

Edited August 6, 2015 by MikeTheAshmigo

[FelisImpurrator]

 

This. This, so much.

 

I've never wanted No Grind. I mean, what's the point? The game is about building stuff and getting loot, wrapped up in beautiful lore (that we could use more of, though). It's no fun getting everything built, maxed, and forma'd to the gills in a week and being stuck waiting for the next update.

 

At the same time, I don't like how hard it is to get loot without the hardcore farms that keep getting nerfed for being too fast. The problem is twofold - the fun method is not rewarding and the rewarding method is not fun. These two extremes keep getting stretched farther and farther.

 

The other issue is the approach being taken. Currently, the rewarding but unfun methods are being systematically nerfed, which is part of balancing the equation. Unfortunately, the other half is seemingly being neglected: The fun but rewarding methods are not being buffed proportionally.

 

This, I think, is partly because of the current attitudes in the playerbase - players are just so used to having to minmax the most efficient loot mill to have any sort of reasonable pace that they can, do, and would treat any loot buff as a cue to "Farm harder, before it gets nerfed again" - every new lootcave is swarmed the moment it's found, causing a massive overflow of resources that prompts an equally massive nerf, every single time. How much can [DE] do without being painted as the villain either way? If they nerf the lootcave people complain about grind being too hard, then go find another lootcave. If they buff everything else, people treat everything as the new lootcave, farm harder (see Den of Kubrow), and complain about grind being too easy.

 

The solution I've been championing all this time is this: Raise the value of "1x loot" (normal loot) to reasonable levels. Find a sweet spot that "feels right" - where you get resources as you need them, simply by playing what you want, how you want, solo or in a squad. But dedicated farming - usually in a squad - should result in maybe 1.5x that new base number with nothing more than good team play. Teamwork and an organized frame combination, the third situation you described, should be 2x that base. But at the same time, organized frame comps should all be rebalanced to be fun and interactive, not reliant on single purpose or stationary "loot bots" or "AFK turrets". Ideally, all frames should be balanced to provide a huge range of synergistic combinations, but that's a much longer-term project.

[bluedragonfeathers]

I don't use hydroid alot but my bf and best do. I can say without a doubt that I have loved the pilfering Strom mod and it's been really handy. I don't understand why they did this honestly. There are so many other more important things that they should be worrying about like making the game not crash all the time or being a horribly hard pull on most computers. Why nerf hydroid? Why don't they fix the spawning of tentacles instead? It would be nice if they spawned somewhere near where I wanted them too. I would like to say for the record we don't camp. We actually make it a point not to so he's been rather handy and has saved us many a time. But now he's not going to be able to kill a thing and yeah the drops are going to suck. One of the biggest reasons we do use him was for the ls drops in survival. Yeah of u kill alot of stuff u should get enough ls but it doesn't always work like that especially with the semi broken spawning so many rerolls can be very important. The resource and mod drops were also handy. Finding transmuting fodder isn't the easiest thing and he did help to maybe get a couple extra ones. Ive understood trying to fix Draco to some extent and yes I will say I have used it some. I'm a 19 going on 20 so yeah sometimes u just want to level the pos that u have to level and u want to do it fast. But do u ever see a call for hydroid? Up until now they have gone about nerfing all the frames used in many of the popular Draco team set ups but he's not one of them so why nerf him? Sorry for the scattered thoughts but I really don't think it was necessary to do this. My bf loves to use him and sunk alot of time into him. Now he's considering not playing cause every time we do start to find at least one thing that has made the grind alittle fun they take it away. DE needs to remember that we are supposed to have fun playing the game and not be miserable as we try to grind our lives away. I do the grind and i have to the tune of over 2500 hours but lately it's gotten to the point of being intolerable and that's not good. It's not a good sign when the veterans are miserable all the time. If we are miserable how do u think the newbies are feeling when they have to grind a dozen hours cause something won't drop. Shouldn't they have fun at least or try too? Hydroid is actually alot of fun now because of pilfering storm before that he was one of the least used frames in the game. But now even newer players were seeking after him because of his usefulness. I fear that this nerf is going to put him back in the closet again and he will just be mastery fodder and nothing else. R.i.p. hydroid

Edited August 6, 2015 by bluedragonfeathers

[Empiren]

I really don't understand DE's lack of foresight in the "loot caves".

 

Clearly if you make a frame or ability similar to Nekros' loot increase, then you'd be aware that it's going to be the main use on farming maps.
 

DE gave Hydroid that augment. DE knew that it benefited from power strength. This wasn't an "oversight" this was clearly put in the game.

 

Yet because of a loot cave, it's nerfed across the board.

Seems like OP is right. DE doesn't know how to fix the core issue here.

[Inez]

DE are not the good guys here, they are not nerfing Hydroid to help us.

 

They are nerfing Hydroid so we have to have to grind more. Need Orokin Cells or Neural Sensors? Now it will take twice as long. If you enjoy long grinds, I suppose this is a good thing. Most people would rather be doing other things, and long grinds just increase burn out.

 

They could've achieved the exact same effect by halving all drop rates. Except it would've been harder for the 'forum faithful' to defend them.

[-dicht.Amducias-]

It has come to my attention as a normal fellow Tenno player as you all are to post this thread about this topic stated above, I thank you all for taking the interests into looking at this post and clicking this thread and I'll apologize ahead to all quick viewers who tend to like to skim a whole thread and look for TLDR on this topic (Posted one anyways), I wish I could express myself in the most possible accurate way to put it there but there are a lot of complicated things along with mechanics that are at the very moment broken in this game and they need to be discussed here, and I feel it is my responsibility as a player, to express my full views and opinion about what we need/should try to do to improve this game and bring a more positive contribution and better feedback to DE on how Warframe needs to have an overhaul at the moment on drop rates, and rewards system.

Problems with this game.(Scroll all the way down regarding to Ophelia and Hydriod Pilfer Swarm nerf)

Over the past few days I've been looking at threads in this forums, generally around the feedback categories, in general section, around maps and levels, mission types and I see countless of threads every single day posted and updated with complaints about this game, and I feel like I need to bring this up to attention to all those who have a concern with the direction this game is heading, the grind walls, the RNG system, the way how the very base of the game mechanics work and how it affected us Tenno, who play our warframes everyday have to deal with the struggles of farming and actually making a healthy progression in this game...the things we need everyday like the Reputation system, Materials, Fusion cores, Credits, Prime parts, Warframe parts any of that sort I feel needs to have a sort of action put into place where it should have an overhaul in the way it's rewarded and dropped in someway and to do this I feel that DE needs to stop worrying about how Star chart 3.0 will and should be along with all other new contents for U17 and rather put more energy into fixing their game as they had promised for a Year Of Quality. (Note I am not against new content, that's always great especially for Exalibur...(He is awesome thank you DE!) but I feel there needs to be an overhaul with the game, how it's working at the moment, how it should receive more attention from DE and not be in the backburner, but rather focused and actually renovate and fix on what's been broken for a long time now.)

Camping and loot caves.

I've been seeing threads about how people are complaining that this game is revolved heavily on camping, the rewards and benefit of it outweighing into how the game should actually be played and appreciated by how DE released these game modes and blaming the idea on many warframes such as the notorious Gmag with the augment mod greedy pull and asking for a nerf on that mod, and I want everyone to realize that nerfing warframes do not solve any problems with how this game works, if anything warframes should actually be buffed and made more viable and not require LoS but rather AOE especially with how the way the map is made and built into our games where there will be a lot of technicalities and problems of actually hitting enemies with a push a button, a lot of people thought and think that nerfing warframes will help fix problems but many times we don't think about the consequences of how it affects the community and the game it self, especially with how bad stealth Nerfs were and people felt like they couldn't use excal anymore and others argued that we should focus on the game instead of pressing 4 all the time, that's alright everyone has their opinions. And I feel as a normal player myself was fed up with how the rewards system is going on right now in this game the progression of it, and I intoxicated myself when Vivergate and E gate was first discovered as a matter of fact take a look at Mogamu's point of view in this video if you have the spare time to meditate into his 18 minutes words of wisdom on how we can actually try to fix the problem with this game, and he's a die hard fan of warframe and I'm with him every step of it.

I want to make myself clear when I bring up this topic again, I don't want to bring old salt into old wounds, and that's not my intention at all, but many issues has not been addressed or answered in a cleared up manner, and rather trying to fix some areas where many players are divided, there is a clear division and a large sense of war-like feelings between players on opinions/ideas for Warframe and how it should be played and because of that I'm going to make this post and thread active again, despite the fact U17 is coming out in a few days! Yay HYPE! But let's not ignore these issues.

There is no problem with camping in this game, everyone has their ways of playing Warframe or Warfarm, and the tools Digital Extreme gave us allowed us to have fun in this game, while also be able to utilize areas where camping is necessary due to the point of how bad the weighted RNG is in this game. It would be border-insane to try to not camp while farming for the very resources you need or parts you might be looking for because the numbers are rather insane for some parts (and mods) to drop and many people find it a lot more convenient and more efficient to camp because you can have all enemies crowd up in one area with all the resources you'd probably miss while running around.

Camping has been a major factor and issue along with debates in this game because of the way the sheer broken game mechanics reward's it's players on how they interact and play with the game, it's sad to honestly see the fact that camping/macroing in a same position for a long time rewards players more than those who try to make an effort to have fun and be rewarded in a less matter because the most efficient way can be boring for some people and to that I'd have to honestly say it's some serious unhealthy game play not when it comes to camping, but rather exploiting the game.

However, camping is just a method to speed things up to success (just like rushing a mission is with capture missions or sabotage) and having some decent good loot along with more survivability as you work with your team to cooperate and be able to tackle challenges that most teams would not be able to do past 40 minutes in an endless mission and that shouldn't be a problem except most of these methods are borderline exploit.

There will always be a loot cave, DE

Warframe's game mechanic's I feel is broken and I think it needs an overhaul on how it rewards new players and veteran players alike, based on the overall experience, we might not be able to fix the problem we're facing now at the moment but I'm going to bring an example like Draco up. Many players feel Draco is a cancer to this game, I feel it's not the player's fault because if I can save time, minimize my effort and maximize my rewards, when doing a mass amount of killing in the same spot actually rewards me more than actually playing the game, why won't I strive to do it? Where's the real exact harm of actually taking the advantage of how the game is bringing me more rewards than really putting my heart into it? and I notice that and later on, I look at how I have been playing this game all along for a long time now, farming farming and farming and I tell myself, I honestly don't like how I'm seeing this game is slowly getting to a point where all we do is camp in one position, pressing the same buttons for many hours, this is all I could really look up to if I want to max out a new mod, or sell things on trading channel in exchange for the items I could use and enjoy, and looking at how DE is approaching this by slapping on more time wall, grinding with very long term goals such as Primed Mods really disappoints me. I understand this is a free game, but it is nearly impossible to actually achieve a completion status in this game, and I know there are many Completionists out there who actually feel and understand what I'm talking about what right now because the progression and time wall of this game are set up to an extreme, where a normal human being will eventually be fed up with this game as a casual player, leave and move on to another game and wait until more new updates arrive and the cycle tragically continues with players slowly giving up and quitting this game. So how do we fix this? Here is my suggestion. Let's Nerf the drop rate on kills we get and buff the rewards system, NERF the loot cave, put the energy to focus on rewarding players for actually playing this game. Nerf loot caves, buff the rewards systems. SPY MISSION 2.0 was a step in the right direction.(even that got nerfed eventually after it's first release)

The Flaws of the game mechanics allowing loot caves to exist and be a dominant way of playing in today's usual warframe gaming.

Days after the E gate Nerf, Approximately 2 days I found out a way to go around the ''nerf'' of e gate. It made me very happy that DE James eventually responded this support ticket because at the time I felt I needed to do the right thing and bring this attention to DE to fix this game, and I happily resigned for a few months after to come back to actively be a part of this community. I was never contacted again after reporting this and I figured I should try and see if they fixed it.. and to my dismay.

This was me farming not too long ago what many thought was dead, E gate, shortly after leveling up the re-released Mara Detron that I missed after missing void trader..and after reporting this issue months ago about this exploit, I cannot believe the attention was not brought on enough for fixing the maps, I could not digest eventually how the rewards system is treating us players, and how EASILY EXPLOITABLE IT WAS FOR MONTHS TO JUST GO IN AND ABUSE A MAP TILE, and I heavily feel that this game needs to fix it's mechanics on how spawns are working in this game, and the rewards system as well..

(Note, E gate has been permanently nerfed into the ground and this method will not work, if you honestly think I'm dumb to be releasing an exploit, shame on you lol.)

Fixing the rewards system, and rewards from killing mass amount of units.

One of the best ways to discourage loot caves such as Draco, (and other maps) from having large potentials for people to abuse is to actually BOOST the rewards from playing missions as they were intended to be, This has been repeated long enough to DE maybe a thousand times perhaps, and I feel like they're not hearing our voice exactly because all they've done was set up more time walls, more grind walls, more difficulty to a point where players are discouraged from actually engaging true and real game play I.E Nullfiers, Grineer Manics, BOSSES THAT HAVE INVUNERABILITY FRAMES PER SECOND. These hard counter units we're receiving lately promotes camping. Especially Nullifiers in regular gaming, you can actually just find better results in killing and farming low level enemy units, and not have to deal with annoying game-play. I hope for a more BETTER ENGAGING GAMEPLAY, that actually rewards you for what you're doing and playing in-game, giving more rewards to players who can get for example...get a kill streak not by just abilities but by game play and how he or she communicates with the AI system and actually playing like a real ninja in space, not camping in one spot and just bringing more content to favor a lazy man's game. Lessen the extreme grind wall, lessen the time walls so that players can actually be able to achieve something in this game. Nerf the loot cave by buffing rewards system to encourage players to actually play this game, and I really feel that this attention needs to be brought to everyone who cares about the integrity and the health of this game, and I will repeat myself. Camping in this game, is not a healthy way of going about into playing this game. We need changes and solutions in these matters.

Current Megathread on fixing AI Units for more better gameplay:https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/425117-rework-all-the-enemies-grineer-squads-and-the-grineer-hellion/ Thanks to AlphaHorseman

I hope you guys are with me on this. I love this game and I want it to be better for all of us to actually enjoy and appreciate the content DE provides us on a daily basis, and I thank DE so much that they're able to actually able to communicate with us on a daily basis and make changes, but I feel this game needs to reach it's milestones and one of them is by fixing on how the rewards system work, and how the very mechanic of spawning in this game works along with rewarding and implement real, and engaging team play. So lets stop the nerf threads on our warframes and actually bring the real problem up with this game down with a solution.

Here is a rough and brief history on the current problems with the game that has sparked up large amount of positive and negative feedback directly involved with farming, camping and how people are exploiting or cutting their way into large progression.

The infamous Greedy Pull Mag: Mag was (still is) popular to be of use when E Gate was first accepted and discovered and abused because she was able to pull all energy orbs, resources, credits, rare materials and mods to the rest of the team while they were able enhance their own ability to stay in one specific loot cave spot. She slowly became a bush fire after that...she was one of the warframes that slowly pushed Players to be able to manipulate the RNG system into their favor, despite after the Developers hot-fixed the tile spawn on e-gate on March 12, 2015, when players saw that they were able to have this type of control for the first time in their hands after the Viver exploit (which involved Syndicates having reputation be tied to experience...) It soon became inevitable for many Veterans and old players alike at the time, that the core system of the game was broken, and DE hasn't found a way to work it's issue to fixing the problems with this game, and rather instead of focusing some of the main areas that hurt the player base, they decide to try to band-aid some issues like removing the interception mission from Viver in Eris and replacing it back to the same design with Eris being fully infested node. After the Reputation system was fixed many players found the most easy and efficient way to farm up your reputation points and that was the Excalibur buff when they removed his LoS on his radial javelin and up came a team meta born with Draco being introduced and most widely played and asked for in recruiting chat and ultimately this led to a series of nerfs and large uprising of anger and salt between players and DE, eventually the augment mod greedy pull was nerfed to only pull resources exclusively to Mag now.

Feedback on Greedy Pull Nerf thanks to RevxDev

Source of Information on latest greedy pull Nerf.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/484540-the-latest-information-on-greedy-pull/

The Excalibur Nerf DE soon took action against the reputation farming in the major update 16 The Sanctuary and the introduction of Chroma. When his javelins were reverted back to Line of sight and (awareness) which then soon resulted into having the team needing to make a re-work for him after many people brought up pitchforks and torches and did not appreciate Digital Extremes for leaving this huge context out on the community that they had stealth nerfed him. This had created a whole lot of shenanigans between players and developers and it brought up a lot of salt and a sense of belligerence among players with different opinions on how the game should be played. Everyone should and can be able to voice their opinions on how we all want to improve the quality and the performance of this game, I am now specifically stating this to everyone who feels offended on how people are honestly not taking suggestions well in themselves to understand that this is a feedback thread, please respect everyone's opinions even if their opinions are against in what you feel is set to be in stone, but it's not. This game is open beta, and we all still have a long way to go for this game to become fully complete and be able to give our hands to clap to DE for making an awesome game.

History of Hotfixes and Nerfs and current update.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/344505-update-1520/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/345935-hotfix-1521-1522/

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/422796-psa-radial-javelin-unlisted-changes/

Feedback after the U16 hype train de-rail.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/2zs2e0/de_what_are_you_really_doing_here/

Update 16.9.0 Excalibur Revisited update.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/476490-update-1690/

Draco*: This very specific mission in Ceres, I honestly don't even know how to put it, it was a combination of everything, you could Rep farm in Draco, you could farm fusion cores, Orokin cells, T4 Keys that were very good such as T4 Defense and survivals and most importantly you are able to still power level your weapons in a mere 20 minute run up to level 30 for what it would take regular players to legitimately level their equipment roughly double or triple the amount of time in normal game play, it's still the one map people favorably go to daily because it is widely known, many players appreciate the crutch level game play of simply using Mesa with Trinity now since Gmag can no longer sustain other warframes. It slowly became an issue with many players because this type of camping was indeed and ultimately not healthy for players to abuse all the time, sadly in my opinion I feel that warframes should not be pointed at for the bad excuse of core game play warframe encourages in the first place. Since the Excalibur nerf, Mesa came rolling in to fill up his place. Since Gmag is nerfed now Trinity comes to her place to fill her role of a sustaining energy to Mesa. And it all boils down to this.. no matter how hard people try to fix camping and exploiting a specific mission or tile, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A LOOT CAVE due to the sheer fact that the weighted RNG that's being implemented at the very moment is very poor along reward system that advocates players to find a more and easier method to get around the large grind walls, time walls and rare resources all at once. And in order to discourage the current exploits that revolves around the issues with camping with some players is to buff up the reward for players more than just staying in one spot and doing a mass amount of killings in one concentrated area... and the problem is not with us players, DE has allowed the meta to take in and create a habit among all players to take advantage of the spawn system and the exploits that follows with it.

Another good video to look at along with his feed back as well about the current game since U15 a thanks to Janzer

Update 17 Lootcave

yes, the lootcave that's starting to turn into a wildbush fire and widely known now is currently in Ophelia in Uranus.(pun) Moving on with this current solution which I feel in my opinion is a total debacle specifically talking about the warframe that's now currently being targetted to being nerfed and his name is Hydriod. Now there's not gonna be a hotfix that will nerf Hydriod directly, but his very pinnacle and defining difference and use with many players will now be nerfed, and I'm talking about another augment mod that they will be nerfing and that will be the Pilfering Swarm augment mod which won't be affected by his powerstrength mods to have the added drop chance.

De's current reply and Rebecca's words quote on Hydriod.

DERebecca, on 05 Aug 2015 - 5:04 PM, said:

Another thing, that basically goes against with everything I believe this game should be trying to be focused on fixing with the current issues of the exploits and lootcaves in this game. The current link to the thread Rebecca has replied can be seen here-->https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/502088-hydroid-quality-of-life-adjustments/?p=5635620#entry5635620

This is another band-aid to another big issue that I believe will be a large backlash between the community and DE themselves, and honestly I am not going to be happy with these upcoming changes because the nerf barely solves anything with how bad the grind in this game is, and how bad loot caving rewards players much more than just trying to have fun in this game.

Current Lootcave in Ophelia will be fixed soon, and I understand and appreciate those fixes, but there hasn't been any solutions to this game yet that implements a re-work in how drops work in missions, nor is there any incentives for players to actually play the game except camp, and camping apparently rewards players so much more than playing!

In the end of this update I got nothing else more to say but this which I totally agree with this post.

Hydriod

I've decided to update the thread once again, and this time it's to inform and educate people who think pilfering swarm wasn't nerfed, and had the mind and thought to think that it works now, and benefits players more in the late game while it is true that now the pilfering swarm mod allows for 2x(before it was 4x with max powerstrength) the amount of loot and can now be built into duration, and enemies do not have to necessarily die to the tentacle rather on it which specifically has been stated by DE Rebecca earlier, I want everyone to realize, that this augment mod is not as useful as it seems to be now, because before the nerf on this augment mod there were several issues that tied with hydriod spamming Tentacle swarm such as tentacles not be able to touch enemies well with a DURATION BUILD, this led to players building up max powerstrength for max loot with LEAST DURATION. Molecular prime not being able to re-roll loot and Sayrn's Miasma as well because the corpse would disappear as soon as the Nukerframes and Molecular prime trigger on the corpse would disappear so these farming tactics people are coming up with now after this hotfix WILL NOT WORK.

1. Pre-nerf Pilfering Swarm scaled with powerstrength.

Additional loot can calculated through Chance * (1 + Power Strength).

Maxed Pilfering Swarm (Chance = 100%), and 30% Power Strength will result in 130% additional loot. This means that enemies will always roll loot 2 times, and have a 30% chance to roll loot an additional time.

With enough Power Strength (+184% at max), it is possible to force enemies to drop up to 4 times the amount of drops.

Works against Ospreys and other flying enemies.

2. Tentacles will not accurately be able to touch enemies as you build a fully duration pilfer swarm tentacle.

Take a look at this picture now with the pilfer swarm augment mod now, you and your team decide to farm a specific location, whether it would be through a sewer in survival camp, or farming for neurol sensors now on IO Jupiter or any of the darksectors tied with it. 12 tentacles now, not affecting any enemies directly through kills and only providing 2x amount of drops if enemies die to the tentacle, I want everyone to realize why a duration timer with max range Tentacle Swarm is bad, mainly because the 12 tentacles that pop out with this augment mod focuses primarily first on targets that were spawned near the location of Hydriod and is random, that being said, once enemies have been killed you can now reap 2x rewards from it, not too bad right? The problem now is that the tentacles will have a very hard time trying to touch other enemies, there were many instances with pre-nerf Pilfer Swarm tentacles with duration build of enemies walking past by tentacles like it was all okay, this led to players building with a least duration build, to more effectively be able to spam the ability and have more accuracy in picking up enemies from where they are at, because based on tentacle swarm, 12 tentacles have a high chance to spawn underneath an enemy or osprey but it won't always do that, and many times tentacles spawn areas in where it wouldn't touch enemies, and players would then have to wait out the duration to be able to replace the tentacles to a more proper position.

3. Least duration, pilfering swarm build today. The whole and main point of this hotfix, was to stomp on Ophelia's lootcave that many players were abusing with Hydriod, the main nerf was that the powerstrength no longer stacks with the augment mod, rendering Hydriod to be a secondary and less effective Nekros. Tentacles will now have to be spammed with only 2x chance of drops if they die on the tentacle, a duration build would not be effective to keep up with how enemies are positioned to attack the team, based on the randomized spawn of tentacles not being able to properly reach enemies to begin with. The Big Nerf of this hotfix was the power strength guys. Please do take notes from this.

That being said, I wish you all a good day, and happy farming, requiescat in pace Hydriod. Another victim of a larger issue that DE still hasn't solved with the puzzle of how they want their game to be, fun or grindy to no end.

Here's a rough TLDR of this thread, I feel it's fair if you click here to read and want it to be convenient

Don't Nerf Warframes or their augment mods.

Remove the LoS system it's very tacky.

Buff the rewards system and Nerf loot caves like Draco promote real healthy gameplay.

Put more real engaging gameplay for players to enjoy the content, rather than camp.

(editing for grammar mistakes, sentences.. spelling errors.)

Amen.

So much work for this statement and so right too.. I did the maths and found out that MikeTheAshmigo is 100.29% right , please DE dont skip on reading this

Edited August 6, 2015 by W4vE

[S.T.M.P.D]

If you MUST use Pilfering Swarm to play Hydroid, then you're playing him wrong. Loot aggregation isn't his place; no warframe should have that kind of power. I say this as a person who loves to play Hydroid yet has no augment mods at all: He shouldn't be railroaded into loot-bot by you who ABSO-FUCKIN-LUTELY MUST HAVE A LOOT BOT.

[SickoSike]

If you MUST use Pilfering Swarm to play Hydroid, then you're playing him wrong. Loot aggregation isn't his place; no warframe should have that kind of power. I say this as a person who loves to play Hydroid yet has no augment mods at all: He shouldn't be railroaded into loot-bot by you who ABSO-FUCKIN-LUTELY MUST HAVE A LOOT BOT.

Not at all, what gives you the right to tell me, or other people who has the right to play frames correctly or incorrectly? This is a game, nearly every build about hydriod revolved around his tentacle swarm, give me any sort of examples of which Hydriod has any sort of dominance in today's gaming in warframe every single one of his abilities are now basically overshadowed by other frames.

What you should be pushing for instead of trying to start  an argument of playing Hydriod the ''correct'' way would be to make a statement on how to improve and change his abilities.

Edited August 6, 2015 by MikeTheAshmigo

[FelisImpurrator]

What you should be pushing for instead of trying to start  an argument of playing Hydriod the ''correct'' way would be to make a statement on how to improve and change his abilities.

That's exactly what I did, incidentally. I posted a thread on reworking Hydroid, because it's more productive than complaining about another augment nerf like everyone else.

 

Although really, lootbots shouldn't exist OR be necessary at all.

[SickoSike]

That's exactly what I did, incidentally. I posted a thread on reworking Hydroid, because it's more productive than complaining about another augment nerf like everyone else.

 

Although really, lootbots shouldn't exist OR be necessary at all.

As much as I am against lootcaves and camping, and having warframes be some sort of lootbots and having a keybind macro and get rewarded for being botters for hours, I absolutely do not support the hostility in the thread finger-pointing at other players because of an exploit that eventually led to another warframe's augment mod that has been nerfed, and I agree with you, but however Digital Extreme gave us these tools specifically to use to be able to utilize and have it be made to our advantage whether or not you want to use cheese tactics or not, it's up to the players themselves. No one should be raining on how people play this game.

If I want to be a tank hydriod, with max armor shields and health while utilizing no abilities to be able to advance my frame for the sake of having fun or being able to provide crowd control to my own use and advantage by all means I should be able to do so. This is the same exact thing with farming, except this is just another Vivergate situation we're seeing with such nerfs over broken gameplay.

Btw, I'm excited if you have finished your work on how to improve hydriod, could you provide the link here perhaps?

Edit: Never mind I took the liberty of my time to look it up, if I have your permission I'd like to link your thread here to any propose changes available for Hydriod because I'm very sure he is in need for some love from the community.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/505012-buffrework-hydroid/#entry5643100

Edited August 6, 2015 by MikeTheAshmigo

[DrBorris]

DE are not the good guys here, they are not nerfing Hydroid to help us.

 

They are nerfing Hydroid so we have to have to grind more. Need Orokin Cells or Neural Sensors? Now it will take twice as long. If you enjoy long grinds, I suppose this is a good thing. Most people would rather be doing other things, and long grinds just increase burn out.

 

They could've achieved the exact same effect by halving all drop rates. Except it would've been harder for the 'forum faithful' to defend them.

I beg to differ. DE wants the game to be fun, and sometimes removing a strategy that is not "fun" is necessary. Seriously, I want to have fun while I play, why would I want that to be a disadvantage. In a perfect world, the most rewarding gameplay will also be fun, however when something like Viver or Draco pops up the new "king of the hill" is no longer fun. "Balance" is not nerfing everything equally, buffing everything to the highest denominator, or nerfing everything to the lowest denominator, it is... well... a balance. Viver was the communities first time breaking the glass ceiling into the absurd levels of farming, and in a way it has been the downfall of the game that DE has been trying to counteract. When someone wanted to farm, the did endless missions and actually played the game. There was no such thing as a macro farm and the most "OP" thing was Vauban with Penta (the exact same Vauban and Penta that we have today... oh how times change). And while that was "lazy" farming in a way, it was also much more active than Viver, Draco, and now even every defense. People still had "fun" grinding.

 

Nerfing the drop rates universally would be by far the dumbest thing to do because that would make it even more encouraging to go to those "unfun" places to farm.

Long grinds do not encourage burnout. Long REPETITIVE grinds encourage burnout. What DE needs to do is take some time to "buff" the "traditional" grind and make it a bit more worthwhile. Then, if some ridiculous exploit comes out, DE should cut it down. Look at the big picture, gaining loot at 6x the pace of actively playing the game is... wrong.