Trade Chat Discussion - Trolls, Scammers And The Flaws

[(PSN)ToastyFairy01]

You call that nuts? What about 20 000 Platinum for Primed Chamber?

Except Primed Chamber is literally the rarest mod that there is (with the very arguable exception of several auras that were accidentally obtainable, though as far as I know their effects were beaten down pretty harshly), it never having a place to drop or any intention of it being so. It is even more rare than the stances that are/were dropped off of (currently) event only enemies (see: Bursa, Bombard Manic) as those are intended to return.

 

You can farm Kubrows. You cannot farm Primed Chamber.

[maximum43]

The real problem with trading trolls is the ones that say that they want a specific augment mod that most people won't ask for, than "user is ignoring you" after using the rep.

[Valiant]

You call that nuts? What about 20 000 Platinum for Primed Chamber?

That's just stupid. However, as above, despite it being stupid it is slightly different to the kubrow imprint.

[(XBOX)Grrrrrrrrrrreer]

Want to know what anything is worth? (Including real-life).

It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

[Avenwing]

It seems the majority of forumers prefer a predatory market. I have to wonder though, how many of them dislike such things in real life? Probably 100% since they are the prey and not the predator.

[FelisImpurrator]

It seems the majority of forumers prefer a predatory market. I have to wonder though, how many of them dislike such things in real life? Probably 100% since they are the prey and not the predator.

It's simple, really, from a psychological perspective.

 

One: It's because they're on the internet and feel like they can do whatever they want without repercussions. That includes exercising their greed to the fullest extent, because hey, it's "not the real world" (although it involves IRL money, what do they care about people on the internet, right?)

 

Two: They have no idea how real economics works. They only know the concept of the "ideal" free market, but fail to understand that said market is impossible without a state of perfect competition (which does not exist anywhere in practical application, let alone in a broken system like Warframe's), and so make blatantly ridiculous claims like saying the game economy is perfectly self-regulating as Lord Adam Smith intended.

 

Three: Many people who lack power in the "real" world enjoy these things because it makes them feel powerful. They get to have their few hours/days/weeks of being the bully without any real consequences, so they get more entrenched in that mindset and start to think their actions are justified.

 

Well, that's what you get, dealing with human beings who are given the perfect opportunity to start viewing everyone else not as people, but as cattle to be farmed. Whether it's for in-game money or K:D ratios or anything else.

[Withthegoodrice]

WTS Burston stock 100p xd

[Avenwing]

It's simple, really, from a psychological perspective.

 

One: It's because they're on the internet and feel like they can do whatever they want without repercussions. That includes exercising their greed to the fullest extent, because hey, it's "not the real world" (although it involves IRL money, what do they care about people on the internet, right?)

 

Two: They have no idea how real economics works. They only know the concept of the "ideal" free market, but fail to understand that said market is impossible without a state of perfect competition (which does not exist anywhere in practical application, let alone in a broken system like Warframe's), and so make blatantly ridiculous claims like saying the game economy is perfectly self-regulating as Lord Adam Smith intended.

 

Three: Many people who lack power in the "real" world enjoy these things because it makes them feel powerful. They get to have their few hours/days/weeks of being the bully without any real consequences, so they get more entrenched in that mindset and start to think their actions are justified.

 

Well, that's what you get, dealing with human beings who are given the perfect opportunity to start viewing everyone else not as people, but as cattle to be farmed. Whether it's for in-game money or K:D ratios or anything else.

Have my babies.

[Dunnvurgen]

I think mostly in the situation it's really the consumers fault. I think a lack of patience attributes to some of the high prices seen across our market, which I myself have been guilty of.

When a seller has an item, which most would be considered overpriced, I've seen people purchase the item just due to the lack of the item on trade at that moment. Had they waited maybe an hour, two, or until the next day, they would be able to find someone with a little more reasonable price.

Don't get me wrong, some items will have a higher value; event mods, arcane helms, etc, and maybe the grind of RNG attributes aswell, but it's really up to the consumer to control the market. You can post your 2k Kubrow all day, but if no one buys it week after week, maybe take a hint...

[Noble_One]

...because that went down so incredibly well in Diablo 3. I'd rather have no trade at all than auction houses. But god forbid, that would mean people would actually have to play the game.

 

the AH went to hell in D3 because it used REAL LIFE MONEY TO TRADE AS AN OPTION. there are NUMEROUS of other games that have AHs and do just fine. seriously if youre going to mention D3 AH fall atleast know why it fell.

[Berserkerkitten]

the AH went to hell in D3 because it used REAL LIFE MONEY TO TRADE AS AN OPTION. there are NUMEROUS of other games that have AHs and do just fine. seriously if youre going to mention D3 AH fall atleast know why it fell.

 

You don't say! So remind me again - what's the quickest and easiest way to obtain platinum again? You know, the currency you would use in a Warframe Auction House?

[Gr3vi3R]

Again, Diablo 3 Auction House closed because of the Gold One.

 

Gold was constantly being generated switching from players to players.

Platinums, when you buy something from the Market, gets deleted from existence.

 

Also, it got deleted because players where playing more Auction House than the actual game.

 

Stop arguing about Diablo 3 when you know nothing and probably even haven't played it, thanks.

 

Edited June 22, 2015 by Gr3vi3R

[_Je_Suis_Bruxelles_]

I'm just putting it in perspective. Technically you're telling me hey, this thing isn't worth 5 dollars anymore now its worth 20-40! Just because people want it. Lol

What bro?

Yup.You grasped it perfectly.Every free market stock exchange on the planet works like that.

[i.chit.you.not]

economic 101: supply vs demand

 

#freemarket

[FelisImpurrator]

I think mostly in the situation it's really the consumers fault. I think a lack of patience attributes to some of the high prices seen across our market, which I myself have been guilty of.

When a seller has an item, which most would be considered overpriced, I've seen people purchase the item just due to the lack of the item on trade at that moment. Had they waited maybe an hour, two, or until the next day, they would be able to find someone with a little more reasonable price.

Don't get me wrong, some items will have a higher value; event mods, arcane helms, etc, and maybe the grind of RNG attributes aswell, but it's really up to the consumer to control the market. You can post your 2k Kubrow all day, but if no one buys it week after week, maybe take a hint...

The problem is the utter lack of transparency in the chaos that is Trade Chat. The chat moves so quickly, and is so limited, that it's nearly impossible to keep track of what prices are and aren't fair. You're talking about an ideal system where information is freely available. Here, information is throttled heavily by the broken interface, and so sellers have something they can exploit to one-up buyers.

economic 101: supply vs demand

 

#freemarket

Economics 102: Adjusting Ideal Theoretical Situations for Real World Variables.

 

Parrotting "supply and demand, supply and demand" doesn't account for any of the other factors that influence an environment like Trade Chat. Are you really going to argue that the WF economy is in an ideal state of perfect competition, with a complete lack of monopolies or oligopolies, low cost of entry, and perfectly symmetric access to information?

 

Please. Don't make me laugh.

[Joulery]

It's simple, really, from a psychological perspective.

 

One: It's because they're on the internet and feel like they can do whatever they want without repercussions. That includes exercising their greed to the fullest extent, because hey, it's "not the real world" (although it involves IRL money, what do they care about people on the internet, right?)

 

Two: They have no idea how real economics works. They only know the concept of the "ideal" free market, but fail to understand that said market is impossible without a state of perfect competition (which does not exist anywhere in practical application, let alone in a broken system like Warframe's), and so make blatantly ridiculous claims like saying the game economy is perfectly self-regulating as Lord Adam Smith intended.

 

Three: Many people who lack power in the "real" world enjoy these things because it makes them feel powerful. They get to have their few hours/days/weeks of being the bully without any real consequences, so they get more entrenched in that mindset and start to think their actions are justified.

 

Well, that's what you get, dealing with human beings who are given the perfect opportunity to start viewing everyone else not as people, but as cattle to be farmed. Whether it's for in-game money or K:D ratios or anything else.

 

I don't think players really want an "ideal" free market. I would think we all just want to have a free market, defined as a market where vendors and consumers can set whatever prices and there is no government regulation (in this case DE intervention). This is kind of what we have now, albeit DE regulates what we can and cannot sell (mods/prime parts vs regular warframe bps). However, they do not artificially set prices of things we can trade (but there is credit tax I suppose). 

 

Anyways, my point is that if some guy wants to sell a Loki Prime Helmet for 500 plat, have at it. It is unlikely anybody will buy it, unless he manages to trick somebody or there is a rich impatient whale who doesn't care. Regardless, the demand for a Loki Prime helmet at 500p is so low that it is rare for somebody to make this sale. And if nobody is buying it at 500 plat, not very many people will try to sell it at 500 plat.

 

The moment you start saying someone shouldn't be able to sell it at that high of a price, you're effectively regulating the market, which leads to a whole bunch of problems. I personally, like it the way it is for that reason.

[Gr3vi3R]

I don't think players really want an "ideal" free market. I would think we all just want to have a free market, defined as a market where vendors and consumers can set whatever prices and there is no government regulation (in this case DE intervention). This is kind of what we have now...

 

I don't.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Gr3vi3R

[Spikey844]

The real problem with trading is UI. It is a right pain trying to find what you want to buy or sell when you have people posting whole paragraphs of text and cause chat to jump massively, potentially making you miss what you want to be or sell.

[Dunnvurgen]

The problem is the utter lack of transparency in the chaos that is Trade Chat. The chat moves so quickly, and is so limited, that it's nearly impossible to keep track of what prices are and aren't fair. You're talking about an ideal system where information is freely available. Here, information is throttled heavily by the broken interface, and so sellers have something they can exploit to one-up buyers.

Economics 102: Adjusting Ideal Theoretical Situations for Real World Variables.

 

Parrotting "supply and demand, supply and demand" doesn't account for any of the other factors that influence an environment like Trade Chat. Are you really going to argue that the WF economy is in an ideal state of perfect competition, with a complete lack of monopolies or oligopolies, low cost of entry, and perfectly symmetric access to information?

 

Please. Don't make me laugh

Not doing your reasearch or allowing your self to remain ignorant when purchasing anything is again the consumers fault. Especially in this day when answers can be a click away. I dont think the exscuse that trade chat moves to fast is valid at all

 

Everyone will have their own view points of a fair price, but dont go in blind get ripped off, and then complain about it

 

EDIT: also if your depending on trade chat to determine price, thats kinda the problem right off the bat.....

Edited June 22, 2015 by Dunnvurgen

[Gr3vi3R]

Trade chat in a nutshell:

 

Edited June 22, 2015 by Gr3vi3R

[CryoSource]

Trade chat in a nutshell:

 

Yeah, sure, that's trade chat.

Except you're flying past the stuff for sale at a couple hundred kilometers an hour.

[Gr3vi3R]

You need to enter the matrix to understand =P

[FelisImpurrator]

I don't think players really want an "ideal" free market. I would think we all just want to have a free market, defined as a market where vendors and consumers can set whatever prices and there is no government regulation (in this case DE intervention). This is kind of what we have now, albeit DE regulates what we can and cannot sell (mods/prime parts vs regular warframe bps). However, they do not artificially set prices of things we can trade (but there is credit tax I suppose). 

 

Anyways, my point is that if some guy wants to sell a Loki Prime Helmet for 500 plat, have at it. It is unlikely anybody will buy it, unless he manages to trick somebody or there is a rich impatient whale who doesn't care. Regardless, the demand for a Loki Prime helmet at 500p is so low that it is rare for somebody to make this sale. And if nobody is buying it at 500 plat, not very many people will try to sell it at 500 plat.

 

The moment you start saying someone shouldn't be able to sell it at that high of a price, you're effectively regulating the market, which leads to a whole bunch of problems. I personally, like it the way it is for that reason.

Well, you see, players tend to be greedy and so they don't want an ideal market the way it's actually defined in economic theory, because it would cut into their massively gouged profit margins. The problem is, the people who defend the current market state think it is an ideal market when they drone on and on about "Supply and demand! Market regulates itself! It's fair because people buy my overpriced junk!" without considering realistic imbalances.

 

The system as it is now is a problem specifically because it is extremely easy to trick people in it. People did that with Frost Prime. Some were bragging about selling him for 1k because they conveniently "forgot" to mention that Prime Vaulting is temporary. I don't see why people think any sort of regulation is effectively the plague and should be avoided forever. What "problems" would it cause if the system were refined to deter scammers and other unscrupulous sellers?

Not doing your reasearch or allowing your self to remain ignorant when purchasing anything is again the consumers fault. Especially in this day when answers can be a click away. I dont think the exscuse that trade chat moves to fast is valid at all

 

Everyone will have their own view points of a fair price, but dont go in blind get ripped off, and then complain about it

 

EDIT: also if your depending on trade chat to determine price, thats kinda the problem right off the bat.....

Claiming that being ripped off is "the consumer's fault" for not doing enough research is already a bias against the buyer. So dishonest salespeople cannot be held responsible for their tactics at all? That's the kind of thinking that fuels a state of imperfect equilibrium to begin with. A market that heavily favors either the buyer or the seller is not functioning according to the principles of a free market as outlined by real economic theory.

 

Do tell me what you're referring to when you say answers "can be a click away" and that trade chat should not be used to determine price. Should we be entirely reliant on sites like wftrading, which often go unchanged for over a month despite fluctuations in actual prices? Or should we perhaps scroll up in trade, and by the time we find the message we want, it's more than a quarter of the way up the log - or if we happen to be selling, hope our own messages aren't buried in about two seconds? Are you seriously suggesting that market prices should not be determined by observing the actual market, and instead should come entirely from external sources? So much for free market economics.

 

You seem to be assuming I'm speaking entirely from the perspective of a buyer who has been ripped off. Which would be false; I simply analyze the situation.

[BlutAdler]

It seems the majority of forumers prefer a predatory market. I have to wonder though, how many of them dislike such things in real life? Probably 100% since they are the prey and not the predator.

 

BOOM.

 

"I want this because it's done to me in real life.. so that should be the right way.... right?"

[Joulery]

Well, you see, players tend to be greedy and so they don't want an ideal market the way it's actually defined in economic theory, because it would cut into their massively gouged profit margins. The problem is, the people who defend the current market state think it is an ideal market when they drone on and on about "Supply and demand! Market regulates itself! It's fair because people buy my overpriced junk!" without considering realistic imbalances.

 

The system as it is now is a problem specifically because it is extremely easy to trick people in it. People did that with Frost Prime. Some were bragging about selling him for 1k because they conveniently "forgot" to mention that Prime Vaulting is temporary. I don't see why people think any sort of regulation is effectively the plague and should be avoided forever. What "problems" would it cause if the system were refined to deter scammers and other unscrupulous sellers?

Claiming that being ripped off is "the consumer's fault" for not doing enough research is already a bias against the buyer. So dishonest salespeople cannot be held responsible for their tactics at all? That's the kind of thinking that fuels a state of imperfect equilibrium to begin with. A market that heavily favors either the buyer or the seller is not functioning according to the principles of a free market as outlined by real economic theory.

 

There always will be cases like Frost Prime scams, but those issues correct themselves over time. As time goes by, more people become aware and less people fall victim to such traps. The price stabilizes and the item approaches a true value. The market favors the savvy seller and buyer, not just the seller. In the same system, I as a buyer can take advantage of a seller who didn't do their research and tries to sell a Loki Prime Systems for 50p all because they didn't know any better. To me, not doing your researching before buying and selling stuff is like not doing your due diligence before investing in a stock. It's stupid and you'll likely pay for it.

 

Any time you regulate the market, there are consequences that can be unforeseen. For example, let's say DE added an artificial price ceiling for Frost Prime BP to be 50p. That way nobody can sell it for more than 50p. Frost Prime parts are in high demand now, so everybody will want to buy them. Now that it's been price-capped, most people can afford it. Everyone starts buying it up and eventually there's a shortage. New players who want Frost Prime now can't buy it because it's been sold out. Rich players can't buy it either because it doesn't matter how much you want to pay for it, it's still 50p and sold out. In the previous system, poor players would be be prevented from buying parts due to not having funds. But, if you had the money and were willing to pay for it, you could buy Frost Prime. So, basically everybody is out of luck in the scenario where the price is artificially capped.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Joulery