I Died In Five Minutes On Mars-- Why Warframe's Difficulty Is Absurdly Anti-Fun

[Kaiservadin]

First of all, if I get a dollar for every time someone doesn't read this post and then calls me a scrub, I'm betting I'd be rich.

But here's the story. I was leveling a Synoid and Drakgoon, and decided to take them and my Nyx to Mars. First, the level spawned with ice and I was left with a fraction of my shields. I quickly learned from a detron crewman that I couldn't outgun them with my weak weapons, as my shields would be wiped before I damaged them enough. This was annoying on its own but not gamebreaking--yet. Although I don't know how a newbie is supposed to function in that situation.

Then New Loka decided I was due for a spawning of ancients. Before I located them, I'd been hit with a toxic proc. Rolling away to save my health, I then cast Chaos and mind controlled the venomous eximi. Believing I was safe from the toxin, I attacked with the melee weapon I had with me, which was the only one sufficiently strong enough. I managed to kill a Life Leach and Fire eximus, but this Loka squad spawned with three venomous eximi. My instinct was to Absorb, but of course that does almost no damage when faced off against ancients. So I rolled away again, taking two more toxic procs in the process. I tried taking shots from afar with my Drakgoon and Gammacor, but this did almost no damage even when they weren't buffing each other. I cast chaos again, and this came back to bite me-- one of the eximi was blasted through the air by the last Fire eximus, and landed far enough that it toxin procced me again. Despite my rolling, which diminishes the damage by 80%, this proc was enough to kill.

Upon revive, I killed the ancients with melee, but lost all but a sliver of my health in the process. Because of the Detron Crewmen I wasn't able to safely use the weapons I wanted to, and was stuck mixing Chaos and Absorb with melee. At five minutes, I extracted wondering how a new player would be expected to handle that situation.

So what's the point? There was nothing remotely fun about any of that. I didn't become better from it, and I didn't feel that I had a fair chance either as the attacks were undodgeable. Moreover, I don't understand how a new player could possibly survive that situation.

DE's "challenge" relies entirely upon saying "Yay, we killed them!" without asking if they had a chance or had anything to learn from it. This isn't good game design. If I was dodging attacks and messed up, I would feel more satisfied. If I was getting hit as I failed to take advantage of openings, I would be learning. But I died because RNG said "you lose health now" and the best way to prevent that from happening is to play a game with more rewarding gameplay.

I'm not proposing fixes because I and many others have already. But what's the point if DE doesn't see the problem?

For those saying "this is an extremely unlikely scenario" which is a fair point:

This is an extreme scenario, but it highlights a problem that exists and shows itself every time two Ballistas happen to hit you, while coptering, at once. It shows itself when a seeker hits a slash proc on the only shot it lands. It shows itself when three ancients and two mutalist Moa's spawn at once. It shows itself when a Nullifier spawns as an arctic eximus with two corrupted bombards inside. This is an extreme, yes, but it is an extreme that highlights a problem Warframe is riddled with.

I agree with you the game is hard at first the KEY to win is to get better weapons thats all.

[StinkyPygmy]

Just being nit-picky here, but is unpreparedness really the reason for losing(or nearly losing) to a low/low-mid level detron crewman? I'll grant that nyx isn't the best frame to solo with because of the lack of armor and other general survivability, and I'll grant that usually enemies like that aren't an issue because we players can kill them before they can even shoot at us most of the time(<--- and that's due to some of the broken powercreep weapons in our possession), but I don't think that excuses an enemy that does absolutely ludicrous damage at low levels when engaging at mid range, I mean really, detron crewman can wipe 700 shields and health(with 450 armor) in 3 shots or less, depending on the range.(I sometimes have trouble dealing with them on a fully modded loadout) And that's not accounting for the fact that the dakka from corpus in general is pretty brutal.

 

I'm not denying that it was a situation with a stroke of bad luck, but as I said above, the corpus can hit really hard at lower levels, and with the amount of enemies present in missions at one time, it'll kill you more quickly than you can react sometimes. Sure, the OP decided to focus in on the hit squad encounter as that was where he seemed to receive the most trouble, but he also mentions that he had to be very cautious with the detron crewman. The hit squad deciding to show up was just the straw that broke the horse's back.

 

Also, I'm not trying to argue here, we all seem to be in some agreement and sympathize with the OP. I'm just further elaborating on my viewpoint.

 

haha, I'm singling out the detron crewman, not purposely though, they just lean more towards the nullifier in terms of frustration when dealing with them, there are other corpus units and some other factions' units certainly do have their separate issues (>.> stares at the broken armor scaling for the grineer)

 

Well, I mean on the topic of not being prepared, yeah. Of course its a valid reason for losing. I can't really blame the game if I walk into a T3 mission with an unranked set of MK1 weapons and unranked frame can I?

Some people (like me) do that because they like the challenge and leveling gear at the same time. Two birds, one stone so to speak.

Personally I take unranked weapons way beyond mars frequently. But I've been playing a LONG time and I normally have a ranked frame so abilities can keep me covered in a hairy situation, or a ranked weapon handy.

I certainly wont be mad at the game if new loka spawns and I only brought a melee that can handle them because, well, thats obviously my problem.

I'll do my best to figure out a solution, even if it means hit and run tactics and takes 20 million years.

 

I don't consider detron crewmen that bad. They hit hard, but as long as you keep moving and don't face tank you should be fine. Sometimes they still get me, but I actually like them. They die quickly but do decent enough dmg that even geared up players still need to be careful.

I learnt my lesson when they first appeared in game. I got wrecked, and I now know to never, ever, treat them like regular goons.

 

I think thats the issue. Players don' t learn from their mistakes.

They expect the game to change for them everytime.

Granted, somethings ARE bulltwang and badly designed, but there are many cases where someone gets wrecked and rather then thinking of maybe what they did wrong, its almost always the games fault.

 

I dunno, maybe its just because I'm used to WF quirks that I notice it less. 

Who knows. I'm biased, think I'm better at the game then I probably am, and have been playing so long that I'm never surprised or make the same mistakes twice. Tends to skew opinions on things like these a bit I guess.

 

Side note: Nyx is a great solo frame. You can perpetually keep make everything ignore you. You mucho loco cuz! :P.

[Feallike]

Well with the introduction of Heavy Maos and Juggernauts I am sure the DE will balance the game so their not stupidly OP for solo players and newbies................................................................................................................................................................................................. We are so screwed.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Feallike

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Well with the introduction of Heavy Maos and Juggernauts I am sure the DE will balance the game so their not stupidly OP for solo players and newbies................................................................................................................................................................................................. We are so screwed.

Invaders should take and do percentage based damage so new players are equally at risk and equally as useful against them.

[NN13]

So, with only one venomous eximi and not three, and with primed flow and fleeting expertise, you were successful through sitting in absorb. Now do that with 225 energy, no efficiency mods, and three venomous eximi, and I'll be impressed. Although it really doesn't change the point.

So, let me get this straight - You are saying that your Warframe also didn't have the mods to take on Syndicate assassins?

 

Why would I not use a Flow/Primed Flow and a Fleeting Expertise? And if you didn't use those and health and shields mods(as you said earlier), what mods were you using?

 

You did not have a good gun to take out assassins.

You thought its a good idea to melee a group of 'Ancient Eximi on steroids'.

You were using a Nyx, which has one of the least Armor.

And then, you are saying you had just 225 energy.

 

So, what exactly DID you have that was good enough to fight assassins should they spawn?

 

Not the guns, not the Warframe itself. Just a melee. And you didn't go out in the open when the first time lights flickered. Sorry, but this is 100% your fault for not having a single way of dealing with assassins when you knew you were marked.

 

Syndicate Assassins are amongst the easiest and you are having problems with them. What would you have done if Stalker spawned or Harvester spawned?

 

And as I said, I had only one Venomous Ancient , but I also didn't take a single damage. With 3 Venomous Ancients also, I wouldn't have taken a single damage, because as you can see from the video, my Absorb damage was high enough to take out Venomous Ancient, be it one or three. The only ones survived are the Parasitic ones that have higher health. Also, I believe your Ancients were not level 70, right?

[Liminal]

I agree many things are wrong with WF's difficulty. This post only shows a few of them:

 

- random procs are often insanely powerful

- procs that affect you through walls

- syndicate assassins kick your face even if you drop into Venus with unranked gear

- detron crewmen are too powerful for their level and spawns

[Onisa]

So, let me get this straight - You are saying that your Warframe also didn't have the mods to take on Syndicate assassins?

 

Why would I not use a Flow/Primed Flow and a Fleeting Expertise? And if you didn't use those and health and shields mods(as you said earlier), what mods were you using?

 

You did not have a good gun to take out assassins.

You thought its a good idea to melee a group of 'Ancient Eximi on steroids'.

You were using a Nyx, which has one of the least Armor.

And then, you are saying you had just 225 energy.

 

So, what exactly DID you have that was good enough to fight assassins should they spawn?

 

Not the guns, not the Warframe itself. Just a melee. And you didn't go out in the open when the first time lights flickered. Sorry, but this is 100% your fault for not having a single way of dealing with assassins when you knew you were marked.

 

Syndicate Assassins are amongst the easiest and you are having problems with them. What would you have done if Stalker spawned or Harvester spawned?

 

And as I said, I had only one Venomous Ancient , but I also didn't take a single damage. With 3 Venomous Ancients also, I wouldn't have taken a single damage, because as you can see from the video, my Absorb damage was high enough to take out Venomous Ancient, be it one or three. The only ones survived are the Parasitic ones that have higher health. Also, I believe your Ancients were not level 70, right?

Do you realize what you're telling OP? That if you try and level gear without 50%+ of your load out being cheese you're just 'asking for it'?

The fact that Warframe semi requires you to do so is the entirety of this thread's complaint.

 

OP went into a mission of roughly 1/8th the game's difficulty and was surprised once and kicked in the teeth by RNG three times. Your response is to tell him to cheese it so it doesn't happen again, rather than admit the 'challenge' in this game might be a bit borked.

 

Also, given that absorb actually scales the level of the ancient eximi doesn't mean much past if you had taken that one damage it would have been over for your Nyx, no matter how quick you thought.

[NN13]

Do you realize what you're telling OP? That if you try and level gear without 50%+ of your load out being cheese you're just 'asking for it'?

The fact that Warframe semi requires you to do so is the entirety of this thread's complaint.

 

OP went into a mission of roughly 1/8th the game's difficulty and was surprised once and kicked in the teeth by RNG three times. Your response is to tell him to cheese it so it doesn't happen again, rather than admit the 'challenge' in this game might be a bit borked.

 

Also, given that absorb actually scales the level of the ancient eximi doesn't mean much past if you had taken that one damage it would have been over for your Nyx, no matter how quick you thought.

'The fact that Warframe semi requires you to do so is the entirety of this thread's complaint.'

Warframe doesn't require it to do so.

Assassins do. And they do it rightfully.

 

Think before you try to act smart.

 

As for taking a damage tick, clearly I didn't. That is exactly what I meant when I said 'Timing' i my first post here.

 

Most people think Warframe can be played how one wants to, with very little skill. And it is true. For most part of Warframe, your require very little skills. The only time you require skill is such instances. And its better to learn what tactics others has to offer, instead of complaining and getting angry.

 

Answer me some questions, if you will.

 

1). Why did OP not take the time to see that 3 of the ancients are Venomous? Isn't that entirely his fault?

 

2). Why did OP not assess the situation beforehand? What was OP still doing inside a closed room when he got the first warning,aka,light flicker? Shouldn't he have known that he can not defeat the assassin squad since he gears are not leveled, probably including his warframe?

He should have gone into open, where he would have enough scope to escape. Rather, he stayed there and wanted to melee. Isn't that his fault?

 

3).  If the door was blocked, he could have gone near them, double tapped 4. This would have knocked down the ancients and cleared the doorway for him to escape. Why didn't he think of that? Isn't that his fault? And clearly, a single proc didn't kill him.

 

4). What do you and OP want? That everyone should be able to defeat assassins with unranked guns and Warframe(because clearly, if OP didn't have Flow and Fleeting on his Nyx, pretty sure it was because it was not ranked fully).

 

5). Having a powerful gun at all times is just one way of defeating the assassins. I already showed in my video how to do it with just melee and your frame. And What was OP's excuse for not having Flow and Fleeting Expertise on his warframe, especially, when he knew that he was going in Solo with unranked guns?

 

This maybe is a bit harsh, but if you don't have the appropriate weapons or frames to kill the assassins, you are supposed to escape. OP did none. Therefore he got killed. So, this is perfectly fine.

Edited June 22, 2015 by NN13

[EvilChaosKnight]

Also for those who suggested to use Chaos/MC. From my experience it doesn't work against the death squads since the duration is literally cut down to 1-2 seconds. Absorb seems to behave weird when it comes to the New Loka ancients group.

 

Also toxic auto-proc area is stupid and needs to go. I mean fire eximi don't set you on fire by just being nearby do they? Toxic guys should do the same thing caustic ones do - release an AOE wave (of now toxic clouds) which then might damage and proc you but which you can dodge/hide from.

[HandsomeSorcerer]

Oh simple really, dont piss of new loka.

The are fothermuckers...

[Onisa]

'The fact that Warframe semi requires you to do so is the entirety of this thread's complaint.'

Warframe doesn't require it to do so.

Assassins do. And they do it rightfully.

 

Think before you try to act smart.

 

As for taking a damage tick, clearly I didn't. That is exactly what I meant when I said 'Timing' i my first post here.

 

Most people think Warframe can be played how one wants to, with very little skill. And it is true. For most part of Warframe, your require very little skills. The only time you require skill is such instances. And its better to learn what tactics others has to offer, instead of complaining and getting angry.

 

Answer me some questions, if you will.

 

1). Why did OP not take the time to see that 3 of the ancients are Venomous? Isn't that entirely his fault?

 

2). Why did OP not assess the situation beforehand? What was OP still doing inside a closed room when he got the first warning,aka,light flicker? Shouldn't he have known that he can not defeat the assassin squad since he gears are not leveled, probably including his warframe?

He should have gone into open, where he would have enough scope to escape. Rather, he stayed there and wanted to melee. Isn't that his fault?

 

3).  If the door was blocked, he could have gone near them, double tapped 4. This would have knocked down the ancients and cleared the doorway for him to escape. Why didn't he think of that? Isn't that his fault? And clearly, a single proc didn't kill him.

 

4). What do you and OP want? That everyone should be able to defeat assassins with unranked guns and Warframe(because clearly, if OP didn't have Flow and Fleeting on his Nyx, pretty sure it was because it was not ranked fully).

 

5). Having a powerful gun at all times is just one way of defeating the assassins. I already showed in my video how to do it with just melee and your frame. And What was OP's excuse for not having Flow and Fleeting Expertise on his warframe, especially, when he knew that he was going in Solo with unranked guns?

 

This maybe is a bit harsh, but if you don't have the appropriate weapons or frames to kill the assassins, you are supposed to escape. OP did none. Therefore he got killed. So, this is perfectly fine.

Warframe is full of gear checks like this, and it's getting fuller by the update.

Assassins do. And they do it rightfully.

As do Nullifiers, and slash procs, and toxin procs, and mutalist moas, and ancients, and...

All the 'challenge' comes down to is 'can I out DPS this thing'.

 

Of course you didn't take a tick, you would have been downed practically instantly if you had. Unless you rolled about like a clown, then it may have taken two.

 

So 'the game is easy except when RNG kicks you in the nads'. Wonderful game design there, brilliant even.

 

1) I don't know what tile they spawned in, but the obvious answer is they were out of view.

 

2) Again, I don't know the map layout but it's completely possible OP tried to pop an isolated pod and got caught on the way back to more open tiles.

Maybe he missed the first flicker, maybe it was a simple timing issue. Also you can't choose to be in any room for the first flicker, that pure RNG.

 

3) So trying to isolate and take down individuals with melee is bad but running the gauntlet at the speed of roll is good. Though both options sound like something that once you commit to there's no going back.

 

4) I would like a challenge that doesn't boil down to RNG and a gear check. Mine must be unranked too, since I don't run QT on it.

I honestly don't know where those two extra three dot QTs came from, nor did I realize I had them before today.

 

5) And back to meta cheese we go. 'If you're not playing this way you're playing wrong.'

I just dislike having the game kick me in the teeth because a vocal minority of players who cheese can't understand there is no challenge because they cheese.

It's a vicious cycle that I see no end to.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

Go to Coba on Earth. Problem solved.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

'The fact that Warframe semi requires you to do so is the entirety of this thread's complaint.'

Warframe doesn't require it to do so.

Assassins do. And they do it rightfully.

 

Think before you try to act smart.

 

As for taking a damage tick, clearly I didn't. That is exactly what I meant when I said 'Timing' i my first post here.

 

Most people think Warframe can be played how one wants to, with very little skill. And it is true. For most part of Warframe, your require very little skills. The only time you require skill is such instances. And its better to learn what tactics others has to offer, instead of complaining and getting angry.

 

Answer me some questions, if you will.

 

1). Why did OP not take the time to see that 3 of the ancients are Venomous? Isn't that entirely his fault?

 

2). Why did OP not assess the situation beforehand? What was OP still doing inside a closed room when he got the first warning,aka,light flicker? Shouldn't he have known that he can not defeat the assassin squad since he gears are not leveled, probably including his warframe?

He should have gone into open, where he would have enough scope to escape. Rather, he stayed there and wanted to melee. Isn't that his fault?

 

3).  If the door was blocked, he could have gone near them, double tapped 4. This would have knocked down the ancients and cleared the doorway for him to escape. Why didn't he think of that? Isn't that his fault? And clearly, a single proc didn't kill him.

 

4). What do you and OP want? That everyone should be able to defeat assassins with unranked guns and Warframe(because clearly, if OP didn't have Flow and Fleeting on his Nyx, pretty sure it was because it was not ranked fully).

 

5). Having a powerful gun at all times is just one way of defeating the assassins. I already showed in my video how to do it with just melee and your frame. And What was OP's excuse for not having Flow and Fleeting Expertise on his warframe, especially, when he knew that he was going in Solo with unranked guns?

 

This maybe is a bit harsh, but if you don't have the appropriate weapons or frames to kill the assassins, you are supposed to escape. OP did none. Therefore he got killed. So, this is perfectly fine.

My loadout was specifically designed to not be for cheesing. That's why there was no flow or fleeting. If I'm not supposed to go into a level 5 mission without cheesing, without being able to just have some fun, something is seriously messed up.

What I want is for me to take on an assassin squad that doesn't have a giant AOE, RNG, high direct-to-health proc that is in no way entertaining to go up against. Essentially, what you and the game are saying is that, by not having the perfect setup with a specific set of mods, I deserved to die. You don't see the problem with that?

[Davoodoo]

My loadout was specifically designed to not be for cheesing. That's why there was no flow or fleeting. If I'm not supposed to go into a level 5 mission without cheesing, without being able to just have some fun, something is seriously messed up.

What I want is for me to take on an assassin squad that doesn't have a giant AOE, RNG, high direct-to-health proc that is in no way entertaining to go up against. Essentially, what you and the game are saying is that, by not having the perfect setup with a specific set of mods, I deserved to die. You don't see the problem with that?

You already had more powerful weapons, i cant imagine any new player having synoid or drakgoon and ofc theres nyx which is unlikely for new player to have.

 

I wont even bother to explain kind of experience you might have.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Davoodoo

[Gelkor]

New Loka assassins are really the problem, they are REALLY bad compared to any other assassin squad out there.

 

[NN13]

Warframe is full of gear checks like this, and it's getting fuller by the update.

Assassins do. And they do it rightfully.

As do Nullifiers, and slash procs, and toxin procs, and mutalist moas, and ancients, and...

All the 'challenge' comes down to is 'can I out DPS this thing'.

 

Of course you didn't take a tick, you would have been downed practically instantly if you had. Unless you rolled about like a clown, then it may have taken two.

 

So 'the game is easy except when RNG kicks you in the nads'. Wonderful game design there, brilliant even.

 

1) I don't know what tile they spawned in, but the obvious answer is they were out of view.

 

2) Again, I don't know the map layout but it's completely possible OP tried to pop an isolated pod and got caught on the way back to more open tiles.

Maybe he missed the first flicker, maybe it was a simple timing issue. Also you can't choose to be in any room for the first flicker, that pure RNG.

 

3) So trying to isolate and take down individuals with melee is bad but running the gauntlet at the speed of roll is good. Though both options sound like something that once you commit to there's no going back.

 

4) I would like a challenge that doesn't boil down to RNG and a gear check. Mine must be unranked too, since I don't run QT on it.

I honestly don't know where those two extra three dot QTs came from, nor did I realize I had them before today.

 

5) And back to meta cheese we go. 'If you're not playing this way you're playing wrong.'

I just dislike having the game kick me in the teeth because a vocal minority of players who cheese can't understand there is no challenge because they cheese.

It's a vicious cycle that I see no end to.

'As do Nullifiers, and slash procs, and toxin procs, and mutalist moas, and ancients, and...'

So, what do you suggest? remove each of those?

Don't criticize only, give suggestions as well.

I am not saying Warframe enemies are perfect. They are not. But being unprepared is not an excuse either.

Nullifiers = Shoot(Though these guys need to stop making single shot weapons useless)

Slash Procs = Dodge enough/ use cover to avoid.

Toxin Procs = Don't go near Toxic Ancients.

Mutalist Moa = Dodge.

Ancient = I agree. They are annoying with their 100% hook accuracy.

 

Just because you need newer tactics doesn't essentially make these enemies bad.

 

I tried out by taking 5 ticks from Level 70 Venomous Healers a few minutes ago in the Simulacrum on my nyx and survived without rolling.

Wondering how I did it? I just went into Absorb the moment I got a tick and stayed till the proc ended. Tactics. People should try these sometimes instead of complaining.

 

Assassins spawning will be based on RNG. Get over it. This is how the game designed those enemies. They are assassins. The idea is that they will hit you when you are at your weakest. How is that logic difficult to understand?

 

1). I was talking about OP. He melee'ed them. Hard to believe they were out of sight. And Syndicate assassins spawn in large groups in the same place. Pretty hard not to see them, considering the fact that OP said they spawned at the door of the room.

 

2). OP needed the whole duration of 3 light flickers to pop a Life Support. Not buying it, sorry. As I said, think of the situation before you put it as an argument. Missing a flicker is OP's fault. Game gives you enough cue to escape.

 

3). I have no idea what you are talking about here. I just said that if you don't have the power to defeat the enemy, escape. How hard it is to understand?

 

 Read the other posts. OP clearly said in one of the posts that he was not using Redirection and Vitality.(Wrong, my bad)

4). OP didn't use Primed Flow. You are using that. So what was he using on that slot? Marathon? Maglev? Intruder? Warm Coat?

With your build, I can very well kill a squad of level 40 ancient eximi.

Well, its OP's choice if he decides to use those mods, but then, he would have to figure out what to do in such circumstances.

Its Meta because its needed. If you want to have challenge, who is stopping you to go in without any mod equipped. But, then, you have to devise your strategy yourself instead of complaining.

 

5). Do any of your guns DON'T use Serration or Hornet Strike? They don't right? Thats Meta as well, right? So, might as well remove those mods.

Vocal Minority use Fleeting Expertise and Flow? I think you are new to the game or you are purposefully saying it, knowing what is the truth. Might want to check your facts.

Why don't you go in a mission bare-hand, with no mods on your warframe? You can complain then as well.

Obviously, you will get a kick in the teeth if you fill up your Warframe slots with Intruder and Warm Coat while going against Grustag 3.

 

My loadout was specifically designed to not be for cheesing. That's why there was no flow or fleeting. If I'm not supposed to go into a level 5 mission without cheesing, without being able to just have some fun, something is seriously messed up.

What I want is for me to take on an assassin squad that doesn't have a giant AOE, RNG, high direct-to-health proc that is in no way entertaining to go up against. Essentially, what you and the game are saying is that, by not having the perfect setup with a specific set of mods, I deserved to die. You don't see the problem with that?

You were doing pretty fine with your loadout until the assassins spawned. That means your loadout was doing alright at the level of the actual mission.

Defeating an assassin squad is as good as playing a T4 Mission. Will you use this loadout for a T4 Mission? No, right?

 

And get this into your head - Assassins are supposed to strike when you are at your weakest. That is why they are called....Assassins. They are not going to give you an invitation and say I will visit you in this mission so you can mow me down with your Boltor Prime.

And therefore, they will be based on RNG.

 

So, you want AoE, Procs, RNG(read : element of surprise) removed from the game. Basically, you want your enemies to be sitting ducks.

 

'Essentially, what you and the game are saying is that, by not having the perfect setup with a specific set of mods, I deserved to die. You don't see the problem with that?'

 

Essentially, what I and the game is saying is that you should have atleast one PROPER weapon or atleast have properly modded Warframe, in case all your weapons are useless, to kill dangerous enemies. And if you have neither, you should escape.

 

You neither had PROPER good weapons nor properly modded warframe nor did you escape. Is that really the games fault?

If you didn't use any of the tactics to survive, you do deserve to die. I see absolutely no problem with that.

Edited June 22, 2015 by NN13

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

snip

First of all, I was using redirection and vitality. Don't know where you got that I wasn't.

Second, by your apparent definition of sitting duck, Napalms are sitting ducks. The Jetpack sisters are sitting ducks. The Stalker is a sitting duck. No, you don't need unavoidable attacks to not be a sitting duck.

And that's what you keep missing. There is nothing mildly entertaining about facing an enemy with a giant, RNG, direct health proc that you cannot avoid unless you get lucky or have a specific loadout.

[(PSN)VariantX7]

'As do Nullifiers, and slash procs, and toxin procs, and mutalist moas, and ancients, and...'

So, what do you suggest? remove each of those?

Don't criticize only, give suggestions as well.

I am not saying Warframe enemies are perfect. They are not. But being unprepared is not an excuse either.

Nullifiers = Shoot(Though these guys need to stop making single shot weapons useless)

Slash Procs = Dodge enough/ use cover to avoid.

Toxin Procs = Don't go near Toxic Ancients.

Mutalist Moa = Dodge.

Ancient = I agree. They are annoying with their 100% hook accuracy.

 

Just because you need newer tactics doesn't essentially make these enemies bad.

 

I tried out by taking 5 ticks from Level 70 Venomous Healers a few minutes ago in the Simulacrum on my nyx and survived without rolling.

Wondering how I did it? I just went into Absorb the moment I got a tick and stayed till the proc ended. Tactics. People should try these sometimes instead of complaining.

 

Assassins spawning will be based on RNG. Get over it. This is how the game designed those enemies. They are assassins. The idea is that they will hit you when you are at your weakest. How is that logic difficult to understand?

 

1). I was talking about OP. He melee'ed them. Hard to believe they were out of sight. And Syndicate assassins spawn in large groups in the same place. Pretty hard not to see them, considering the fact that OP said they spawned at the door of the room.

 

2). OP needed the whole duration of 3 light flickers to pop a Life Support. Not buying it, sorry. As I said, think of the situation before you put it as an argument. Missing a flicker is OP's fault. Game gives you enough cue to escape.

 

3). I have no idea what you are talking about here. I just said that if you don't have the power to defeat the enemy, escape. How hard it is to understand?

 

4). Read the other posts. OP clearly said in one of the posts that he was not using Redirection and Vitality. You are using those. So what was he using on those two slots? Marathon? Maglev? Intruder? Warm Coat?

Well, its OP's choice if he decides to use those mods, but then, he would have to figure out what to do in such circumstances.

Its Meta because its needed. If you want to have challenge, who is stopping you to go in without any mod equipped. But, then, you have to devise your strategy yourself instead of complaining.

 

5). Do any of your guns DON'T use Serration or Hornet Strike? They don't right? Thats Meta as well, right? So, might as well remove those mods.

Vocal Minority use Fleeting Expertise and Flow? I think you are new to the game or you are purposefully saying it, knowing what is the truth. Might want to check your facts.

Why don't you go in a mission bare-hand, with no mods on your warframe? You can complain then as well.

Obviously, you will get a kick in the teeth if you fill up your Warframe slots with Intruder and Warm Coat while going against Grustag 3.

 

You were doing pretty fine with your loadout until the assassins spawned. That means your loadout was doing alright at the level of the actual mission.

Defeating an assassin squad is as good as playing a T4 Mission. Will you use this loadout for a T4 Mission? No, right?

 

And get this into your head - Assassins are supposed to strike when you are at your weakest. That is why they are called....Assassins. They are not going to give you an invitation and say I will visit you in this mission so you can mow me down with your Boltor Prime.

And therefore, they will be based on RNG.

 

So, you want AoE, Procs, RNG(read : element of surprise) removed from the game. Basically, you want your enemies to be sitting ducks.

 

'Essentially, what you and the game are saying is that, by not having the perfect setup with a specific set of mods, I deserved to die. You don't see the problem with that?'

 

Essentially, what I and the game is saying that you should have atleast one PROPER weapon tor atleast have properly modded Warframe, in case all your weapons are useless, to kill dangerous enemies. And if you have neither, you should escape.

 

You neither had PROPER good weapons nor properly modded warframe nor did you escape. Is that really the games fault?

If you didn't use any of the tactics to survive, you do deserve to die. I see absolutely no problem with that.

I guess any of the rank 0, 1 and 2 players deserve to lose all their revives then. Since those players tend to frequent these tile sets. Because those people will NOT have the mods and weapons to face this type of enemy that spawns on a level 5 tileset. They won't even last long enough to realize they need to run away if RNG dictates they spawn within the AoE of the toxic guys.  Hit squads need to scale properly to the planet's level range. 

[NN13]

I guess any of the rank 0, 1 and 2 players deserve to lose all their revives then. Since those players tend to frequent these tile sets. Because those people will NOT have the mods and weapons to face this type of enemy that spawns on a level 5 tileset. They won't even last long enough to realize they need to run away if RNG dictates they spawn within the AoE of the toxic guys.  Hit squads need to scale properly to the planet's level range. 

Hit squads don't need to scale because they are.....Hit squads.

 

Yes, a rank 0, 1, 2 player either deserve to lose all their revives or be smart from the beginning(which is unlikely), especially if they are playing Solo. That is exactly how we learned when we were new. They will learn and survive, and won't repeat the mistakes again.

 

I know I sound really harsh, but that is exactly how they will learn on their own, instead of being spoon-fed and taxi'ed.

Edited June 22, 2015 by NN13

[(PSN)VariantX7]

Hit squads don't need to scale because they are.....Hit squads.

 

Yes, a rank 0, 1, 2 player either deserve to lose all their revives or be smart from the beginning(which is unlikely), especially if they are playing Solo. That is exactly how we learned when we were new. They will learn and survive, and won't repeat the mistakes again.

Learn what? Things from new loka spawned in and you died. There was nothing to learn, no action taken by the player that was inherently right or wrong to take. Just RNG. They aren't even high enough in MR to even decide if they want to take that risk or not and participate in syndicates. Its nothing more than a sucker punch as it is now.

[NN13]

First of all, I was using redirection and vitality. Don't know where you got that I wasn't.

Second, by your apparent definition of sitting duck, Napalms are sitting ducks. The Jetpack sisters are sitting ducks. The Stalker is a sitting duck. No, you don't need unavoidable attacks to not be a sitting duck.

And that's what you keep missing. There is nothing mildly entertaining about facing an enemy with a giant, RNG, direct health proc that you cannot avoid unless you get lucky or have a specific loadout.

Extremely sorry, apparently, I didn't see well. It was in someone else's post. Sorry for that. Will edit out the thing from my posts.

 

Napalms do have AoE, just so you know. Also, Napalms are kinda sitting ducks, tbh.

Jetpacks sisters have a particular spot where you deal damage. You need good aiming for that alone. Moreover, they knock you over continuously.

Stalker has the biggest ability of all - Dispel. And he is fast, really fast.

 

What there to get lucky? You can avoid procs are moving out of range. In your case, you could have taken one proc , knocked them down and escaped. You wouldn't have died with one proc. And you could have afforded one cast of Absorb even with 225 energy, just to clear the doorway. You certainly should have realized that your loadout was enough for level 5 Corpus but not for level 40 assassin squad.

[Liminal]

Slash Procs = Dodge enough/ use cover to avoid.

Toxin Procs = Don't go near Toxic Ancients.

Can't dodge hitscan fire.

You can get a toxin proc from a guy you didn't know even existed through a wall.

 

Also, making this about the specific instance in the OP doesn't fix anything. If the mission had been a lv10 defense he'd have lost simply because of RNG.

Edited June 22, 2015 by The_Doc

[NN13]

Learn what? Things from new loka spawned in and you died. There was nothing to learn, no action taken by the player that was inherently right or wrong to take. Just RNG. They aren't even high enough in MR to even decide if they want to take that risk or not and participate in syndicates. Its nothing more than a sucker punch as it is now.

'Learn what?'

Learn that they should move out of the range to prevent procs.

 

'Just RNG.'

As I said before, just get over it. Assassins are going to spawn randomly because they want to assassinate you. They are not going to give you invitation. I died the first 2 times when Stalker spawned. Did I complain? No. I went and read about him. Next time he spawned, I fought him well and got Dread.

 

'They aren't even high enough in MR to even decide if they want to take that risk or not and participate in syndicates.'

If they didn't decide, then why do that have negative standing for any syndicate? Last time I checked, players were not forced to wear Sigils, without which they don't get any standing.

[Sloan441]

You can mitigate hitscan with rolling. It does give you DR frames when in the animation. Use it to escape a crossfire.

 

As for the procs, if you get hit with it from an unknown source, get the hell away from where it hit you. That shouldn't need to be said, but apparently it does. Get distance, evaluate the situation and deal with it. It's called, like, learning and stuff.

 

You can survive the proc, but you will need a health pool (oh, no vitality, guess you won't do that again, huh?). You can't hang around in it. Get out and, if necessary, heal up. Then come in SLOWLY and start picking the pack apart. Rushing in oblivious just burns up revives. Rushing in oblivious to melee...well, guess you won't do that again, either, huh?

 

Learning has occurred. Or one hopes, anyway.

[NN13]

Can't dodge hitscan fire.

You can get a toxin proc from a guy you didn't know even existed through a wall.

 

Also, making this about the specific instance in the OP doesn't fix anything. If the mission had been a lv10 defense he'd have lost simply because of RNG.

Here is your answer -

 

You can mitigate hitscan with rolling. It does give you DR frames when in the animation. Use it to escape a crossfire.

 

As for the procs, if you get hit with it from an unknown source, get the hell away from where it hit you. That shouldn't need to be said, but apparently it does. Get distance, evaluate the situation and deal with it. It's called, like, learning and stuff.

 

You can survive the proc, but you will need a health pool (oh, no vitality, guess you won't do that again, huh?). You can't hang around in it. Get out and, if necessary, heal up. Then come in SLOWLY and start picking the pack apart. Rushing in oblivious just burns up revives. Rushing in oblivious to melee...well, guess you won't do that again, either, huh?

 

Learning has occurred. Or one hopes, anyway.