Viral Procs Should Stack

[Vesciroth]

According to the wiki, viral procs used to stack before Update 12. I think this feature should be reintroduced since it would make low damage, full elemental, high status weapons much more viable against armored units (I'm looking at YOU Tysis. NO! I'M GLARING INTO YOUR SOUL, TYSIS!). Some people may be thinking "just put corrosive on that elemental high status weapon", but this is not a solution at endgame since most high status weapons do such minuscule dps (the grakata is not elemental), that they can't kill the enemies with massive health even after they've been stripped of their armor.

 

I think this would create a great new niche for elemental high status weapons, since they will still be outperformed at low and medium levels by the usual massive burst dps weapons, but at very high levels, they will start to match and even surpass the likes of the Boltor Prime and Soma Prime, even if the heavy burst dps weapons are modded for viral and heat and the squad has stacked 4 corrosive projections.

 

Regarding the mechanics of the proc stacking, I think the viral procs should stack immediately (so, if an enemy is under the effect of a viral proc, the next viral proc halves his health again, as soon as he gets hit by it). However, if the devs feel that this is too powerful, they can put a delay on the stacking (for example, the next viral proc only takes effect after half of the duration of the last proc has passed. I don't think you should have to wait for the full duration of the last proc to pass, because that would still be too slow).

 

What do you guys think?

[R34LM]

This can get overpowered really quickly.

[H3dsh0t]

This can get overpowered really quickly.

 

Very quickly? More like immediately.

[rapt0rman]

They could like... quarter the effect, to account for the stacking, but it would still probably get out of hand.

Edited June 25, 2015 by rapt0rman

[Vesciroth]

What about making it so that the viral procs can only stack after the full duration of the previous proc has passed? Would that prevent it from getting too overpowered?

[Caobie]

iirc there is some form of stacking already with viral. if a second proc hits i think the new halved health becomes their permanent health. remember reading that on the wiki. not that it matters much as most htings die shortly after having their health halved anyways

[Meosuke]

I'm all for this, make my Braton Prime super OP. I don't Mind.

[Dubious.Wisp]

What about making it so that the viral procs can only stack after the full duration of the previous proc has passed? Would that prevent it from getting too overpowered?

 

Then a fresh viral unstacked proc would occur...

 

Stacking viral procs is too much, beam weapons would be....no. Just no.

[TeenageGirlVodkaPuke]

Someone told me once that poison is actually better than viral, is that true ?

Most of the time enemies die too fast for me to actually notice what difference status proc really do.

[Kthal]

Then a fresh viral unstacked proc would occur...

 

Stacking viral procs is too much, beam weapons would be....no. Just no.

 

Beam weapons proc at a rate of once per second, regardless of fire rate.

 

A well modded Braton Prime can proc 20x a second easily.

[Vesciroth]

iirc there is some form of stacking already with viral. if a second proc hits i think the new halved health becomes their permanent health. remember reading that on the wiki. not that it matters much as most htings die shortly after having their health halved anyways

The halved health becomes the permanent health after a single viral proc. It's just that the viral proc takes a while to wear off, once it wears off the enemy's health remains halved.

 

Then a fresh viral unstacked proc would occur...

 

Stacking viral procs is too much, beam weapons would be....no. Just no.

What do you mean by fresh and unstacked? Do you mean it would have no real effect, since it would be halving the original health again? That makes sense, but what I was suggesting was something more like this: the game logs when every viral proc occurs in chronological order, then, immediately after the first proc finishes (maybe they would have to implement it as immediately before the proc finishes so it's still affecting the halved maximum health), the next proc takes effect. Also, beam weapons only apply their procs every second or so (H3dshot or MGIBlaze did a great video about how the status chance on beam weapons work, saying that status build are far less effective on beam weapons because of how the status gets applied at lengthy intervals), so it wouldn't greatly benefit their killing speed.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Vesciroth

[Dubious.Wisp]

--

 

Any way you cut it, it's OP.

[Vesciroth]

To all the people who want to talk about the braton prime or the grakata and the like, the reason stacked viral procs wouldn't benefit them as much is because they are physical damage weapons, and each physical damage type is weighed four times as much as an elemental damage type when taken into consideration for a status proc. Here's an example with an imaginary weapon:

 

Status chance: 75%

Impact Damage: 25

Puncture Damage: 25

Slash Damage: 25

Viral Damage 25

 

Let's say the weapon only fires one bullet (no multishot). That means, for that bullet, one may think that, since one quarter of the damage is viral, then one quarter of the status chance is the viral status chance, so the chance of a viral proc is .75x.25 = 18.75%, but this isn't the case. Because, the physical damage types are weighed four times as much as the elemental types, the actual chance of a viral proc is .75x(25/(25+25x4+25x4+25x4)*), which is a 3/52 or 5.77% chance of a viral proc.

 

Therefore, because viral procs are so much less likely on physical damage weapons, I believe that this will only greatly benefit the high-status full elemental weapons, which I think should get this boost so they fill a nice endgame niche.

 

*I know this can be written as 25+75x4, I was just trying to make it obvious where the numbers were coming from.

[Vesciroth]

Any way you cut it, it's OP.

I really don't think so, because it would only greatly help the high-status full-elemental weapons, which need their own niche. Lots of people complain about how there's no reason to use any weapon besides the Boltor Prime or Soma Prime (sometime the Tonkor now) for really high level content and claim that it makes the game boring and repetitive. I think this is a way to get players to use a greater variety of weapons at endgame, and this solution would make high-status full-elemental weapons unique and different, as they would still not be as effective as other weapons at lower levels because of their lower damage, but they would scale better at higher levels because of stacked procs.

[Meosuke]

To all the people who want to talk about the braton prime or the grakata and the like, the reason stacked viral procs wouldn't benefit them as much is because they are physical damage weapons, and each physical damage type is weighed four times as much as an elemental damage type when taken into consideration for a status proc. Here's an example with an imaginary weapon:

 

Status chance: 75%

Impact Damage: 25

Puncture Damage: 25

Slash Damage: 25

Viral Damage 25

 

Let's say the weapon only fires one bullet (no multishot). That means, for that bullet, one may think that, since one quarter of the damage is viral, then one quarter of the status chance is the viral status chance, so the chance of a viral proc is .75x.25 = 18.75%, but this isn't the case. Because, the physical damage types are weighed four times as much as the elemental types, the actual chance of a viral proc is .75x(25/(25+25x4+25x4+25x4)*), which is a 3/52 or 5.77% chance of a viral proc.

 

Therefore, because viral procs are so much less likely on physical damage weapons, I believe that this will only greatly benefit the high-status full elemental weapons, which I think should get this boost so they fill a nice endgame niche.

 

*I know this can be written as 25+75x4, I was just trying to make it obvious where the numbers were coming from.

Hmm is that why I strip armor off heavies so easily with my Braton Prime :/

 

For the people who don't notice... That was sarcasm btw.

[Rakosta_Kai]

IMO, It would be an OP change regardless of the weapon type.

 

The initial Viral proc is huge dps now... Any additional procs refresh the timer (not that it matters). But,  I don't think enemies get the health back even if the timer wears off.

 

Given the type of weapon and how you modded it, the weapon will probably be doing toxic damage and it's dots the whole time.

[Vesciroth]

Hmm is that why I strip armor off heavies so easily with my Braton Prime :/

 

For the people who don't notice... That was sarcasm btw.

No, that's because the ratio of corrosive damage to each of the physical damage types in your build is probably a lot higher than one to one. It's just math.

[Caobie]

The halved health becomes the permanent health after a single viral proc. It's just that the viral proc takes a while to wear off, once it wears off the enemy's health remains halved?

 

after the proc wears off their max becomes normal but their current health stays at whatever it last was. if another viral proc hits theyre new maximum health becomes halved so that when the proc wears off (and if they find a way to heal) they wont heal past half. but i could be remembering wrong or the info is wrong. but thats what i meant

[Vesciroth]

after the proc wears off their max becomes normal but their current health stays at whatever it last was. if another viral proc hits theyre new maximum health becomes halved so that when the proc wears off (and if they find a way to heal) they wont heal past half. but i could be remembering wrong or the info is wrong. but thats what i meant

No, you're correct. That's what I said in the post you quoted, I just accidentally put a question mark in it instead of a period.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Vesciroth

[Feallike]

Uhmm actually physical procs and elemental procs are weighed differently. You can proc slash and Viral at the same time. :/ I have done it before.

 

 

Also this is way to OP to be ok. Viral halfs enemy HP, that already is incredably strong, having it stack would allow you to kill any enemy no matter the level easily. Possibly 10 shotting level 9999 enemies.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Feallike

[Dunkingmachine]

Because, the physical damage types are weighed four times as much as the elemental types

This is simply not true. Please provide proper source before presenting this outrageous claim as fact.

[Vesciroth]

Uhmm actually physical procs and elemental procs are weighed differently. You can proc slash and Viral at the same time. :/ I have done it before.

 

 

Also this is way to OP to be ok. Viral halfs enemy HP, that already is incredably strong, having it stack would allow you to kill any enemy no matter the level easily. Possibly 10 shotting level 9999 enemies.

That's the point. It's to make high-status full-elemental weapons the most viable weapons in the game at ridiculously high levels, while still having them be less effective than high dps normal weapons at lower levels.

[Vesciroth]

This is simply not true. Please provide proper source before presenting this outrageous claim as fact.

The wiki: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Status_Effect

 

It's in the notes. It could be someone trolling, but it's been there for a long time.

[Vesciroth]

Very quickly? More like immediately.

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG H3dsh0t-senpai noticed me!!!!!!!

[Feallike]

That's the point. It's to make high-status full-elemental weapons the most viable weapons in the game at ridiculously high levels, while still having them be less effective than high dps normal weapons at lower levels.

 

No it would be more effective. You can put viral on anything, my BoltorP with 15% chance can still proc once or twice. Your saying that people will bring teams of viral and DPS? No that isn't how it works, a fast firing weapon will still proc like crazy and viral will just become the most overpowered element.

 

All this would do is make enemies substantially weaker. This is just a complete buff to every weapon that shoots fast. While being a huge nerf to all singleshot and slow firing weapons. All your doing by making viral stack is making all other elements under powered and nerfing all slow shooting weapons. :/