Fire-And-Forget Abilities < Active Abilities

[Pro3Display]

Dude. The only reason this thread is about Mesa is because you keep talking about Mesa. Read the op, I made it pretty clear that I'm taking about fire-and-forget abilities as a whole, not just Mesa. Hence the thread title!

i was not covering this since i was talking to that guy that wants peacemaker to be like exalted blade.

i understand your point but snow globe give 360 degree cover without buffing damage for 50base energy, volt for the same 50 energy blocks only about 70 degree and buff damage. if you want to cover all 360 you need to cast it like 5-7 depending on your range mods which is 200 +- 150 mana depending on your efficiency mods.

i see it as a fair trade off since stationary cover for stationary game mod is good.

bursa moa event shown me that there are situations where you need yourself covered on all ways at once and don't have much time to place 5-7 shields all over the place. especially when there are dozens of 120lvl mobs trying to oneshot you through your 2k+ ehp.

not mentioning that i prefer to play from defense.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Pro3Display

[Beas7ie]

-snip-

[Beas7ie]

The topic of this thread ISN'T all about Mesa.  READ THE OP!  The topic is about P42W as a whole and Mesa is a BIG offender of that.  People are asking for changes because these ults as they are are kind of boring.  LOLOL WERE SURROUNDED I PRESS 4 AND KILL EVERYTHING TAKE THAT BAD GUYS!  It's not about "showing off" to the Grineer, however the Corpus are VERY VERY impressed by displays of skill, it's about fun. 

 

Take a look at Excal's EB.  It doesn't really take much skill at all.  You press 4, and then run around spamming E, and kill everything in your path.  It's not that hard but it at least looks awesome and you retain control.  Is it crazy OP?  Maybe?  Should it be nerfed?  I'm a big time Excal player and I won't get mad if it does receive a slight nerf or two, because it will still be fun.  I love being able to go into Bankai and shooting out Getshuga Tenshous everywhere to cut up the bad guys into little bits. 

 

In the same vein, Mesa, Frost, Volt, Ember, Rhino, and several other frames need changes to their ults.  They're all Press4 to Win and there is little satisfaction "winning" like that.  If we can change these frames to still retain their power and make them more fun at the same time, then that's a win. 

 

And I have yet to see anyone really try and "protect" someone, Mesa or otherwise, that is standing still and ulting.  They may be killing things nearby, true, but that's usually more of a "oh great this jerk is using his kill everything skill, I gotta hurry if I want to get a few kills here for myself" reaction. 

 

And reviving people if they get downed doesn't count as that's just a common courtesy that everyone should do.

[Pro3Display]

Take a look at Excal's EB. -snip-

i played valkyr and i'm fine with it and with excals ult, i don't know what you trying to prove me talking about excals ult, we are not talking about it

 

In the same vein, Mesa, Frost, Volt, Ember, Rhino, and several other frames need changes to their ults. 

Mesa, Frost, Volt, Ember, Rhino, and several other frames need changes to the core gameplay for their ults to be properly changed

 

They're all Press4 to Win and there is little satisfaction "winning" like that. 

after a while all satisfaction is left is what you come up with or when you actually get the item you wanted for weeks. if you can still have something left to consider fun then good for you.

 

And I have yet to see anyone really try and "protect" someone, Mesa or otherwise, that is standing still and ulting. 

i protect these ults as a right for people to shorten this 1k+ hour suffering that is not even fun anymore until core gameplay will be changed to be actually enjoyable. one thing is a repetitive grind and other thing is a good game that is fun to play all over again and again

 

And reviving people if they get downed doesn't count as that's just a common courtesy that everyone should do.

that is the most ridiculous thing i've heard this week. and is saying a lot about what kind of person you are

Edited June 28, 2015 by Pro3Display

[motorfirebox]

I don't think any massive rework of the game is necessary in order to implement more interactive powers. After all, they just did that with Excalibur and it turned out quite well. 

[Pro3Display]

I don't think any massive rework of the game is necessary in order to implement more interactive powers. After all, they just did that with Excalibur and it turned out quite well. 

well, its fancy, fresh, and fun... yet.

it's not breaking the game more than it is now, which is good, but it doesn't fix it either.

frost/volt example might be not very suitable in what you are trying to say cause they offer a justifiable trade off for what they do.

i'm all with you to make the game more fun but adding 1 time jokes to the game is futile cause jokes get old. good games doesn't.

when they made those animations for ash ult it was fancy at first. then it got old and they added 2 clones to make this ult faster.

excal's ult is fine, and hopefully will last a good while before getting old.

mesa's ult is fine and need to stay as it is at least until gameplay itself is fixed. then we can fill a healthy game with joy.

this community focuses on little details too much at times. now is the time where we need to focus on the whole picture.

community focused on little parts of picture so much it didn't notice that these pieces of a puzzle are not in place and doesnt combine into picture.

 

p.s. I don't think any massive rework of the game is necessary in order to implement more interactive powers.

well, it is, in fact, doesn't. but it is necessary to gain the most profitable and enjoyable variant of the game.

would be bad, if these interactive abilities was in vain cause of game's sudden(and expected) death, right?

Edited June 28, 2015 by Pro3Display

[NikolaiLev]

This is kind of an expanded version of the "make Peacemaker more like Exalted Blade" threads that are popping up. There are a lot of abilities in Warframe that don't offer the player much to do besides hitting the button that activates them. That's fine for some abilities, especially panic buttons like Nekros's Terrify. But other abilities, especially ults, should require and reward more player input. There are a lot of examples that can be used; Peacemaker vs Exalted Blade is one, Exalted Blade vs the old Radial Javelin is another. In both cases, from the perspective of having fun in all game modes, Exalted Blade wins out because you have control. EB might be a little overpowered right now, hard to say, but even if it gets nerfed it will still be more fun than hitting one button and then sipping your soda.

 

Another good example is Snow Globe vs Electric Shield. Two powers with essentially the same purpose: to offer protection from damage. With Snow Globe, it's all about using the right mods. Once you've done that, you're fine so long as you hit the button at the proper time without being too far out of position. Electric Shield is much more difficult to use, but much more interesting to use because of that. You want to position it so that not only does it protect you, but so that it gives you as wide a field of fire as possible, so that you can take advantage of the bonuses you get for shooting through it. Despite the fact that they're both defensive powers, ES is much more active than SG.

 

As more and more frames go through their 2.0, I really hope that the philosophy behind Exalted Blade will be applied more often. Save the passive AOEs for 3, with an appropriate reduction in efficacy; make ults more engaging.

 

I agree completely.  I've never liked Warframe's "Press 4 to AoE" ability design, and things like Mesa have been a step down in quality.

 

Hopefully things improve.

[motorfirebox]

well, its fancy, fresh, and fun... yet.

it's not breaking the game more than it is now, which is good, but it doesn't fix it either.

frost/volt example might be not very suitable in what you are trying to say cause they offer a justifiable trade off for what they do.

i'm all with you to make the game more fun but adding 1 time jokes to the game is futile cause jokes get old. good games doesn't.

when they made those animations for ash ult it was fancy at first. then it got old and they added 2 clones to make this ult faster.

excal's ult is fine, and hopefully will last a good while before getting old.

mesa's ult is fine and need to stay as it is at least until gameplay itself is fixed. then we can fill a healthy game with joy.

this community focuses on little details too much at times. now is the time where we need to focus on the whole picture.

community focused on little parts of picture so much it didn't notice that these pieces of a puzzle are not in place and doesnt combine into picture.

 

p.s. I don't think any massive rework of the game is necessary in order to implement more interactive powers.

well, it is, in fact, doesn't. but it is necessary to gain the most profitable and enjoyable variant of the game.

would be bad, if these interactive abilities was in vain cause of game's sudden(and expected) death, right?

No, I don't agree at all. Again, Excal's rework has gone just fine. Nobody's complaining about his lack of press-4-to-win. That type of ability is not necessary to enjoy the game as it currently exists. In fact, given the amount of complaints about ults like Mesa and Saryn, I'd say it's the exact opposite: those kinds of abilities are dragging the game down.

 

The puzzle pieces of this game already don't fit well together. More interactive powers are, I think, a piece that would fit better than the current paradigm.

Edited June 28, 2015 by motorfirebox

[Beas7ie]

blah blah blah ridiculous randomness about other frames and ults and  spiders and stuff

 

 

 

 

that is the most ridiculous thing i've heard this week. and is saying a lot about what kind of person you are

 

 

What concerns me the most about your post wasn't the ridiculous arguments and reasoning you gave but your reply to what I said about reving.

 

Reviving people is ridiculous?   I thought of it as a common courtesy, help your teammates kind of thing.  I  always try to get to teammates if they get downed so I can help them out, and I hope they'll do the same for me if I get in trouble.

 

Your statments about reviving people as a common courtesy greatly disturbs about the kind of person YOU are.   Go to Church son, you need Jesus.

 

 

Alternatively you can go out and fight a bear or something to make an offering to Thor. 

Edited June 28, 2015 by Beas7ie

[Pro3Display]

-snip-

u sounded like you dont revive them, sry if misunderstood

and i don't need jesus, i prefer doing stuff myself than hoping that someone will do it for me

and its not like he will magically appear before me when i magically will need his help.

to say "you can do it son" i have my parents. not that they say that very often, lol

Edited June 28, 2015 by Pro3Display

[Pro3Display]

No, I don't agree at all. Again, Excal's rework has gone just fine. Nobody's complaining about his lack of press-4-to-win. That type of ability is not necessary to enjoy the game as it currently exists. In fact, given the amount of complaints about ults like Mesa and Saryn, I'd say it's the exact opposite: those kinds of abilities are dragging the game down.

 

The puzzle pieces of this game already don't fit well together. More interactive powers are, I think, a piece that would fit better than the current paradigm.

what dragging it down is a 1.5k+ hours of gameplay that shouldn't be there - boring, repetitive, and tedious gameplay

gameplay should fuel the imagination, not asking "pls make me look fantastic, i need to look gorgeous this evening, oh and i have a free coupon"

 

your suggestion is not bad or wrong, i just think there are better ways that de should focus on asap

your view can be implemented the same time as mine or right after it, but there will be a dark period for the game if they touch current fast farm before they fix gameplay

Edited June 28, 2015 by Pro3Display

[motorfirebox]

Changing other aspects of gameplay is a subject for some other thread. This thread is about changing abilities to be more interactive. I really wish you'd stop trying to drag the discussion away from that topic. We're not here to discuss Mesa's Peacemaker specifically. We're not here to discuss changing other aspects of the gameplay. We're not here to discuss the balance between different abilities based on power cost. We're here to discuss whether the shift from a power like Radial Javelin to a power like Exalted Blade is a good direction for the game to continue moving in. If you're not here to discuss that, please stop distracting everyone else.

[Pro3Display]

-snip-

radial javelin is still there and, to my knowledge, wasnt nerfed

[motorfirebox]

It was nerfed significantly. It now summons a max of 12 javelins, before modding.

[Beas7ie]

u sounded like you dont revive them, sry if misunderstood

and i don't need jesus, i prefer doing stuff myself than hoping that someone will do it for me

and its not like he will magically appear before me when i magically will need his help.

to say "you can do it son" i have my parents. not that they say that very often, lol

 

I also suggested Thor

[Beas7ie]

It was nerfed significantly. It now summons a max of 12 javelins, before modding.

 

The damage also seems to have decreased significantly too.  Before when I used it, I would easily kill all the high level enemies near me, now they just shrug it off.

 

 

Not that it's a bad thing of course, as it's no longer an ult and should get a big hit on its power.

 

On the flip side the way the javelins shoot out has been changed so that more enemies are hit and less javelins get stuck in walls or crates and whatnot without even hitting any enemies.

 

 

Edit: Sorry about double post, the multiquote thing got kind of wonky on me.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Beas7ie

[rockscl]

adding a bit of tasty considerations here:

 

peacemaker is almost like embracing the grind as the central and sole reason to actually be in a mission in warframe (with very cool and enjoyable animations)

Edited July 8, 2015 by rockscl

[climatiseur]

My suggestion for Radial Disarm:

 

 

 

DISCLAIMER: Don't own a loki myself. I use him in my friend's account, and play with him very often.

 

I'd suggest making the disarm comes in a slightly different mechanics - now Mesa's has the ability to jam enemies' weapons - maybe now Radial Disarm can be changed to jamming the range weapons of the surrounding enemies. After around 2  secs of them struggling with their weapons, they soon give up and use melee attack instead - something like how they struck you when you stand too close to them, so it's still technically a  disarm.

 

Meanwhile, it becomes an energy draining ability. eg. Initial cast cost 50, and certain amount per second draining afterwards. And now it can toggle out the jamming and enemies that are still alive can use there weapons again. Energy pad replenishing is disabled during the cast.

 

Now it becomes more strategic because the energy draining is somewhat a bigger drawback for the disarm. Loki can now jam the enemies, temporarily nullify dangerous target, take them out and toggle out the effect. The effect becomes a bit more limited and is more tactical (so more interesting) to use.

 

It can also go a bit further, that the energy-drain is depending on how many enemies are affected. Eg. 1-5 enemies will drain 5 energy per sec; 6 - 15 will drain 10 / sec; and 16 - 30 will drain 15 / sec. and so on. Then, it become more versatile and benefit from more varieties, because Loki can benefit from Narrow-minded, to narrow down the affect range, so the energy drain is minimized. Then he can combine the use of Switch Teleport, to disarm the most prioritized target and take them out first, with the least cost it needs. It is more interesting and more tactical, providing more synergies with his other ability, while still allow rooms for players who like it to have a bigger radius of effects.

 

a sum up of it:

1. The disarm is not permanent, it becomes a toggle-able  energy draining ability.

2. During the cast, no energy is gained from energy pad. Pulling efficiency into a more crucial consideration while modding.

3. If energy-drain depends on the numbers of affected enemy, maxing range is no longer the go-to modding method as smaller range saves more energy.

4. Promote mindful game play - target prioritizing and positioning becomes factors in this ability.

5. More Synergy with Switch Teleport.  Encouraging using it more often other than mobility tool, resulting in a more tactical and interesting gameplay which gives the name of Loki a justice.