The Master Forma Solution

[EinheriarJudith]

There is no forma issue. No one is making you forma all your weapons. With one weapon spec'd out in each category of weapons, you have yourself all the power you'll ever need. This isn't a solution of any sorts. It is players crying for less grind in a game that (in reality) doesn't have that much grind.

This does not combat player burnout either since that is the players fault not the games. To avoid burnout stop running draco with the mindset of "I gotta do this to level my dang weapon" and do it for the fun of playing a new weapon. Don't bring other OP weapons and just use that one weapon and you'll see how much more fun and exciting it is.

Now to a REAL forma solution.... Once you forma a weapon, allow the player to place their mods on the spot with the maximum energy they would have at rank 30. When the weapon is played and leveled up, allow mods in the order of left to right, Top then bottom, be unlocked in real time. That way your weapon that was rank 0 and is now rank 6 has 12 energy worth of mods without leaving the game. This way it is viable the longer you go and the more exp you get. Grind doesn't feel like grind since you scale with the enemies (albeit not as fast)

i agree somewhat. Forma is a consumable it should definitely not have the same build time as catalyst or reactors especially when it drops regularly. DE wants you to forma the weapons which is why there is a limit to how many mods you can put on a weapon at lvl 30 with/without a potato. i dont want DE to mimick PVP stuff in PVE. that last part you are talking about is exactly Dark Sector PVP style ill have to say no.

[RealPandemonium]

2.) It does combat player burnout because there is less reason to for players to feel forced into draco. A weapon only starts being fun for me once it has 2 forma most of the time, especially if I am not planning to tater it. Just bringing an unranked weapon into end game will get you destroyed, but playing more than a few rounds in low level content is also completely boring.

This is just a difference of opinion; some players actually like playing the game and challenging themselves in a more fair challenge than "everything one-shots you and you lose your farming rewards if you fail."  I personally rank up my weapons in random alerts and missions I get invited to by my friends.  

 

It comes down to one party of people who think the core gameplay of Warframe is fun and want to give themselves any excuse to play and master it, VS another party of people who are only interested in rewards such as mastery rank and collecting the latest gadgets.  One group wants to elaborate on the core of the game to make it even more fun and diverse while the other wants to work around the game's core and streamline it to get to the rewards faster.  

 

It's like the second group of people can't be bothered to really play the game and isn't interested in having a reason to do so.  I can understand if you don't like the game that much, but why would you then give feedback that just makes you have to play it even less instead of trying to make the game more fun for everyone and worth playing more rather than less?

 

TL;DR

IMO we should be promoting changes that encourage us to play the game more, not less.  If the game isn't that fun for you then try to change it for the better.  If you're not interested in gameplay, then why are you here in the first place?  

Edited July 27, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

-snip-

That's a lot of passive aggressive salt you got there, friend. 

 

Seems like most of your reply was spent tossing assaults towards me, my playstyle or telling me to leave, rather than offering anything real to the discussion.

Edited July 27, 2015 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[Miish.]

Please DE implement this.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Miish.

[RealPandemonium]

That's a lot of passive aggressive salt you got there, friend. 

 

Seems like most of your reply was spent tossing assaults towards me, my playstyle or telling me to leave, rather than offering anything real to the discussion.

None of that post was directed toward you, specifically.  

[Ninja-Kid]

Well... If you're a REAL vet, you'd know not to forma all your gear at the same time.

Forma primary: secondary / melee is high level

Forma melee / secondary: primary and sentinel is high level.

High level viable all the time.

Real vets don't need to level faster.

If anything, running out of forma is the bigger concern.

And no, that's all without setting foot on Draco.

[srlhama]

Why we are not funding it yet???

Unite and rise in a same voice, all lone tennos around the origin system is time to us fight against the bigest enemy of this game...

[SiiNN321]

1.) There is actually quite a lot of grind depending on how many weapons you want to use, if you want them to be viable, and if you want to power level them.

 

2.) It does combat player burnout because there is less reason to for players to feel forced into draco. A weapon only starts being fun for me once it has 2 forma most of the time, especially if I am not planning to tater it. Just bringing an unranked weapon into end game will get you destroyed, but playing more than a few rounds in low level content is also completely boring.

 

3.) This is a nice WoL idea, but it doesn't address any of the core issues that mine does. There is also nothing stopping both from being implimented.

Have you played any other game (mmo style in particular)? There is a LOT more grind in those games than this one. This game is rather light on grind. Also Draco is not a grind, going in one time with a single level zero weapon and walking away with a maxed out one is hardly any grind. If you consider that to be a real grind you need to diversify your experiences as I believe many on these forums should. Or perhaps you just like shortcuts like your thread promotes. It honestly wouldn't surprise me at this point if DE did listen and put more of these shortcuts and "make the game easier" additions to the game. 

 

Player burnout is the player's fault. First, no one is forcing anyone into Draco. That makes no sense. What you get at Draco you can get anywhere else. Run a T1 Def to wave 20 with only a single weapon and you will walk away with it maxed. Second, a weapon only is fun after two forma?? That sounds like you only have fun when you have enough power to essentially one shot anything below level 30-40. If that is your definition of fun, then I want no part in it. Leveling weapons and frames is easy. There are millions of ways to do it. All of them are as efficient as you want them to be. If you want to skip all the grind and all the real fun, then that is on you. I do not support this idea because I enjoy leveling up my weapons from the beginning. I still remember when I first started to rank up my Lanka. I loved that thing from the beginning, but with each forma, somehow I found the gun even more lovable. If you actually use the weapon, and don't rank it up by using another weapon, you would see that there is a lot more to this game than just formas. 

 

I believe RealPandemonium hit it on the head. A game that challenges you and makes you think on your feet is a fun game. Every single frame I have owned so far (minus Ash Prime because I haven't had a chance to farm for the blueprint), has at one point walked into a tileset unranked with an unranked melee weapon. There is nothing more challenging than having stock health and shields with a weapon with no proper damage facing high level enemies. This game promotes your sense of being a Space Ninja and survival if you only let it.

[Wolfssenger]

DE sees it as a problem, hence the G-Pull nerf. Rather that slapping a band-aid on it. I am suggesting this as a solution to the underlying issue.

I do see it as a problem. I don't like spending time releveling a weapon just to make it useful, immediately losing the progress I made on it up to that point. That's what causes me to burn out. I don't even mind drop rates. I enjoy the loot hunt, and the drop rates seems better than in games like Borderlands 2.

I think this is really more of a solution to the forma grind andthe less a solution to the uselessness of mastery. If anything it's like the extra trades, a nice thing to have at best, but not a solution. Not to say it shouldn't be implemented, i support it fully, but there needs to be more to fix mastery.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Have you played any other game (mmo style in particular)? There is a LOT more grind in those games than this one. This game is rather light on grind. Also Draco is not a grind, going in one time with a single level zero weapon and walking away with a maxed out one is hardly any grind. If you consider that to be a real grind you need to diversify your experiences as I believe many on these forums should. Or perhaps you just like shortcuts like your thread promotes. It honestly wouldn't surprise me at this point if DE did listen and put more of these shortcuts and "make the game easier" additions to the game. 

 

Player burnout is the player's fault. First, no one is forcing anyone into Draco. That makes no sense. What you get at Draco you can get anywhere else. Run a T1 Def to wave 20 with only a single weapon and you will walk away with it maxed. Second, a weapon only is fun after two forma?? That sounds like you only have fun when you have enough power to essentially one shot anything below level 30-40. If that is your definition of fun, then I want no part in it. Leveling weapons and frames is easy. There are millions of ways to do it. All of them are as efficient as you want them to be. If you want to skip all the grind and all the real fun, then that is on you. I do not support this idea because I enjoy leveling up my weapons from the beginning. I still remember when I first started to rank up my Lanka. I loved that thing from the beginning, but with each forma, somehow I found the gun even more lovable. If you actually use the weapon, and don't rank it up by using another weapon, you would see that there is a lot more to this game than just formas. 

 

I believe RealPandemonium hit it on the head. A game that challenges you and makes you think on your feet is a fun game. Every single frame I have owned so far (minus Ash Prime because I haven't had a chance to farm for the blueprint), has at one point walked into a tileset unranked with an unranked melee weapon. There is nothing more challenging than having stock health and shields with a weapon with no proper damage facing high level enemies. This game promotes your sense of being a Space Ninja and survival if you only let it.

I have. They tend to have less grind and less farming than warframe.

 

Did you actually read my suggestion? You would still need to level weapons from 0 to 30 regularly the first time. They would only start off at your MR when you forma them.

 

And? I do Derelict Survivals to 20 minutes solo while not letting myself use even a single life support capsule, even if that means failing the mission at 19:47.   Fun and challenge is subjective.

[Educated_Beast]

I am sure this has been mentioned before but here goes.

Actually have not heard this brought up before. Excellent idea!

People may claim it will increase Draco type runs to increase MR but the same argument can be made that doing this will decrease those game types since less grinding is now required.

Got my vote.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Educated_Beast

[EinheriarJudith]

I have. They tend to have less grind and less farming than warframe.

i can name quite a number of games that are far more ridiculous grind than warframe. you must not have played alot of MMO games with REAL grind.

 

All the MMO/RPG Games Perfect World hosts(particularly Perfect world international), All the MMO/RPG games Aeria Games Host(partifularly Shaiya) Some of the PlayNC hosted games(particularly Lineage 2) and other examples people have given like Destiny, Borderlands 2 etc etc. warframe as a grindy game? LMAO no.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

i can name quite a number of games that are far more ridiculous grind than warframe. you must not have played alot of MMO games with REAL grind.

 

All the MMO/RPG Games Perfect World hosts(particularly Perfect world international), All the MMO/RPG games Aeria Games Host(partifularly Shaiya) Some of the PlayNC hosted games(particularly Lineage 2) and other examples people have given like Destiny, Borderlands 2 etc etc. warframe as a grindy game? LMAO no.

Destiny and BL2 are closer to WF than those other games you mentioned, and they have less grind.

[EinheriarJudith]

Destiny and BL2 are closer to WF than those other games you mentioned, and they have less grind.

game similarity is irrelevant when people complain that warframe is grindy they need to weigh it against other grindy games and in that light warframe isnt grindy at all.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

game similarity is irrelevant when people complain that warframe is grindy they need to weigh it against other grindy games and in that light warframe isnt grindy at all.

Lol, no. That's like saying, "You have to compare a game with bad graphics against other games with bad graphics to say it's graphics are bad. Can't say WF graphics are bad, because it has better graphics than some 8 bit indie game" and so on.  If anything, it would be the opposite. You would compare it to games with the least amount of grind to see how bad it is.

 

In actuality, you compare similar games.  You can compare based on gameplay, shooter, in which case Destiny and BL2 have less grind.  Or you can compare based on model, F2P, in which case DFO and Tera  have less grind.

 

Or you can just look at the game itself, in which we constantly have to relevel the same items multiple times for every item, so we see the game is grindy all on its own.

Edited July 28, 2015 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[EinheriarJudith]

Lol, no. That's like saying, "You have to compare a game with bad graphics against other games with bad graphics to say it's graphics are bad. Can't say WF graphics are bad, because it has better graphics than some 8 bit indie game" and so on.  If anything, it would be the opposite. You would compare it to games with the least amount of grind to see how bad it is.

 

In actuality, you compare similar games.  You can compare based on gameplay, shooter, in which case Destiny and BL2 have less grind.  Or you can compare based on model, F2P, in which case DFO and Tera  have less grind.

 

Or you can just look at the game itself, in which we constantly have to relevel the same items multiple times for every item, so we see the game is grindy all on its own.

comparing games that have bad graphics in and of itself shares that similarity(they are games with bad graphics) tera is an MMORPG game and it is grindy especially when you are 65 and trying to do +15 on your gear not to mention crafting is resticted to PP(production points) once your PP is out you cannot craft nor can you gather materials. for atleast 4 days if your waiting to regenerate it to full. BL2 special weapon drop rates are in the 0.2% area of RNG. destiny..... lol that game takes everyone to a dark place. this game isnt grindy lvling is not hard and item aquisition i think may be a little to easy. and like i said when people come here to complain about grind the examples they use arent ones of games that share similarities because there are VERY few parkour games(AC, Mirrors Edge, Dying light) Warframe isnt grindy and compared to grindy games it is still an infant.

[Wolfssenger]

After the headache of looking at some of this labyrinth of text i think

1. For the love of God, if it's not the original post or some REALLY complicated stuff, learn to keep it short.

2. It's a great idea to add a small incentive to MR. Is it the master solution? Probably not. But capping this at 20 I think is balanced, allowing you to keep a decent chunk of power at all times without skipping the forma process.

[AlphaHorseman]

After the headache of looking at some of this labyrinth of text i think

1. For the love of God, if it's not the original post or some REALLY complicated stuff, learn to keep it short.

2. It's a great idea to add a small incentive to MR. Is it the master solution? Probably not. But capping this at 20 I think is balanced, allowing you to keep a decent chunk of power at all times without skipping the forma process.

I would think that by the time you're mastery rank 20, you'd be sick of re-leveling items again. We're not even to 20 yet and a lot of people are sick of re-leveling items. The point of the game isn't to re-level items after reforming them, the point of the game is to play the game with what gear you've grown stronger with and to enjoy the content, rather than slog through it again to make your weapons/WarFrames strong enough for the 4th time in a row.

[Kakusei]

I feel like people who disagree with the OP just do it for the sake of disagreeing with him...

 

I'm not provoking you, that's just what I think...

 

Anyways, I'd like to know how the OP's idea can be bad for the game, because I can't seem to see valid arguments for that.

 

Lore-wise, it males sense too. After all, your mastery rank increases... You become more and more of a master. Yes, it's logical to have your weapon at rank 0 because it's the first time you use it, but after, when you forma it, it's not like the weapon has completely changed, so if your proficiency with many weapons and warframes (aka mastery rank) is high, you should know instinctively how to use more efficiently your freshly forma'd weapon since you've already mastered it at least one time.

 

I'm all for lore-friendly, clever suggestions, so +1 OP. My opinion may not matter much, cos' I don't have much posts, but eh.

[EinheriarJudith]

because it literally takes no time going from 0-30 did it to amprex which starts with no polarity, did it with supra which requires more than amprex and starts with no polarity pretty much any weapon i like using i see that it has four polarity 2-4 forma depending. plenty of games use this system especially shooters its called prestige i dont mind one bit lvling up weapons again because i enjoy playing the game and lvling up comes as i play in fact if you want it dont faster get a booster you are guarenteed to relvl the weapon with as few runs of any mission as possible. dont like the idea of boosters? dont think lvling is easy? well you've got alot to learn still then.

Edited July 29, 2015 by EinheriarJudith

[Edgarhighman]

So all my formaed guns would start at MR19, im down with that.

[Ninja-Kid]

Anyways, I'd like to know how the OP's idea can be bad for the game, because I can't seem to see valid arguments for that.

As it is, the rate of affinity gain already outpaces the ability to generate forma.

All this would to is to make players hit the forma wall faster.

[Kakusei]

because it literally takes no time going from 0-30 did it to amprex which starts with no polarity, did it with supra which requires more than amprex and starts with no polarity pretty much any weapon i like using i see that it has four polarity 2-4 forma depending. plenty of games use this system especially shooters its called prestige i dont mind one bit lvling up weapons again because i enjoy playing the game and lvling up comes as i play in fact if you want it dont faster get a booster you are guarenteed to relvl the weapon with as few runs of any mission as possible. dont like the idea of boosters? dont think lvling is easy? well you've got alot to learn still then.

 

You didn't answer my question, dear sir... How having to lvl a bit less (33%~ for a MR17 player) your weapons is bad for the game ? The only thing I could see is maybe that the affinity boosters will sell less, but hey, we can't be sure of that, and only DE have the numbers, so we can't know.

 

And to answer you, yes, lvling is easy, but the question was not about it being easy... And again, what's the problem with it being easier then ?

 

 

As it is, the rate of affinity gain already outpaces the ability to generate forma.

All this would to is to make players hit the forma wall faster.

 

 

Yes, maybe that's true, but again, the problem may be that 24h wait for only ONE forma to craft, and not so much the affinity system, don't you think so ? If you could craft all of your formas at once (Heh, one can dream, but Isn't the foundry going to be overhauled in the (not so far) future ?), would you still say that ?

 

A bit off-topic I guess, sorry about that. >_>

Edited July 29, 2015 by Kakusei

[Jag272]

I'm surprised nobody else has come up with this actually, this is a neat little benefit to have. Take a +1

[EinheriarJudith]

You didn't answer my question, dear sir... How having to lvl a bit less (33%~ for a MR17 player) your weapons is bad for the game ? The only thing I could see is maybe that the affinity boosters will sell less, but hey, we can't be sure of that, and only DE have the numbers, so we can't know.

 

And to answer you, yes, lvling is easy, but the question was not about it being easy... And again, what's the problem with it being easier then ?

if its already easy there is no point in making it easier it would need to be made harder not the other way around(you dont go easiest, easy, normal hard you go easy, normal, hard, and then extend on it being outragously difficult). people are already complaining that things are too easy and that they need more challenge MR could use more things that require it sure but lvling up weapons and having them be already lvled to a point after a forma is not one of them(purely my own opinion) and im sure they have plans down the road(that focus system) and other things that might give MR a more dominant roll in some of the mechanics.