Excalibur Rework : Press "e" To Win

[Dragazer]

This game is being killed by it's growing camper community that wants to do 40+ minute survivals wasting time on netflix while not actually playing the game.  AmIdoinitrite?

Except you can't play Excalibur like that and expect good results. Maybe other frames but not this one.

[Jinryusai]

It still blocks when attacking. You can't block explosions and grappling, but I said bullets.

Honestly, I don't mind keeping the syndicate effect -- I use it all the time. The reason I'd say no, is because it kind of narrows the choice of weapons down to only those that can use the syndicate mods (who wouldn't want a free 1000 damage in an AoE every few seconds?)

 

Clones deal significantly less damage than you.

With the right weapon, it won't matter.

 

Well, it's really the syndicate mods/weapons that are limiting the choice of weapons. There Is that Silva Aegis look as well. There is that Venom toxic mod for that sword. All syndicate related gear cause radial damage. All reasons to stop using Boltor Prime.

 

If people are that worried about radial mods, then give EB it's own radial damage based on current element or something else.

 

After all, it makes sense for a 4 power to have radial damage. It would suck to have to choose between using normal melee with radial and EB with no radial

 

YOu'd think something as special as a 4 power energy blade would get radial damage.

[LordOfScrugging]

BREAKING NEWS: RANK 30 TENNO FULLY DECKED OUT IN MODS DO REALLY WELL IN LOW LEVEL CONTENT. MORE AT 11!!

FOR THE WEATHER: IN U17, URANUS WILL BE WET

[RafaelFuchs]

FOR THE WEATHER: IN U17, URANUS WILL BE WET

THE WET SPELL HOWEVER, WON'T BE CAUSED BY RAIN. COME BACK AFTER THE BREAK TO HEAR WHY! NOW ONTO OUR SPONSORS. 

[tzaeru]

Not really, no. The fact that you think it wouldn't be a problem, doesn't change the fact that the animation is too long and buggy for a quick on/off type of usage. Like I said, I don't run max efficiency (130%-140% usually), so I'm not one of the E spammers (it's plain boring) and I often eat a lot of damage if I try to turn it on/off in the middle of the battle. And that would be constant necessity without the orbs.

Well, do you have better ideas for it? Also it wouldn't be a "constant necessity", more like once every 2 minutes with some power max and power efficiency, unless something drained your energy .. but then, the current energy drainers are pretty silly and orbs barely help there.

The bugginess of the animation and sometimes it not firing properly is definitely something that needs fixing, but I think that's an independent topic from any actual nerfs to the ability.

 

Other teammates? Useful? In something like Kiste? Sure, provided there is no Saryn, Mirage, Mesa, Ash, Nova, even Frost if we're talking mid-tier nuking. Hell, one potatoed gun with Serration is enough to make teammates redundant in those missions (ah, I remember all the flame wars about Rhinos with Boltor Prime rolf-coptering through the mission... good times).

Well surely in a team-game people should have the chance to feel useful in a squad! That's dead-obvious. Some of the Frames are, in my books, quite problematic too, such as Saryn & Miasma, but with some others you do end up needing at least a bit more skill and higher-tier mods than currently is needed for Exca for the level 0-50 content, if you want to be as effective. Hence, in practice, they end up problematic less often.

Most of the time, in most of the higher-mid-tier content that is frequented by all established players for keys or orokin cells or whatever, an okay player with an okay build does have a chance to feel useful in getting kills done and so forth. Obviously there will always be players who are ridiculously good and have awesome builds and could grab 95% of damage dealt with almost any frame or weapon, but these players are a rarity compared to how easy it is to trivialize the game with certain ultimate abilities. So there's room for pragmatism in here, I feel.

 

No? If that's the impression you got, then I apologize. As it's my second language, I don't always have a very accurate feeling for how harsh I come out.

So, we should basically piss off?

 

I know it is easier to just settle on the first idea that solves your part of the issue, and then rationalize your indifference to the problems it will cause to others, but maybe give it a shot?

Have any ideas, then?

Edited July 3, 2015 by tzaeru

[Marthrym]

Do people actually do this?

You'd be surprised if you saw a tenth of what I've seen with people using E.Blade...

 

 

- Excal should be forced to leave his ability to deal with Nullifiers -- requiring more diverse play.

 

So he should use his guns or jump in the bubble, just like EVERY other frame... Such diverse gameplay! *sigh*

The fact that he can do this IS different gameplay from the other frames. Not to mention how long it takes to go in or out of E.Blade...

Edited July 3, 2015 by Marthrym

[StonedMakak]

Well, do you have better ideas for it? Also it wouldn't be a "constant necessity", more like once every 2 minutes with some power max and power efficiency, unless something drained your energy .. but then, the current energy drainers are pretty silly and orbs barely help there.

The bugginess of the animation and sometimes it not firing properly is definitely something that needs fixing, but I think that's an independent topic from any actual nerfs to the ability.

 

Well surely in a team-game people should have the chance to feel useful in a squad! That's dead-obvious. Some of the Frames are, in my books, quite problematic too, such as Saryn & Miasma, but with some others you do end up needing at least a bit more skill and higher-tier mods than currently is needed for Exca for the level 0-50 content, if you want to be as effective. Hence, in practice, they end up problematic less often.

Most of the time, in most of the higher-mid-tier content that is frequented by all established players for keys or orokin cells or whatever, an okay player with an okay build does have a chance to feel useful in getting kills done and so forth. Obviously there will always be players who are ridiculously good and have awesome builds and could grab 95% of damage dealt with almost any frame or weapon, but these players are a rarity compared to how easy it is to trivialize the game with certain ultimate abilities. So there's room for pragmatism in here, I feel.

 

No? If that's the impression you got, then I apologize. As it's my second language, I don't always have a very accurate feeling for how harsh I come out.

So, we should basically piss off?

 

Have any ideas, then?

 

No harm done, I was a bit grumpy myself yesterday for which I apologize. 

 

The equilibrium you have in mind, with all 4 players contributing equally, is a rare thing in Warframe, and I agree that it shouldn't be this way. However, your fix would take EB from "a bit too powerful and forgiving" to "annoying to use without max efficiency". Which is not a great improvement right? And in wouldn't change much in mid tier PUGs. The 4 spam problem is not something you can fix with a few nerfs  to some abilities (although some frames deserve them for sure), but there are enough topics about it floating around, let's not derail this one. 

 

As for my ideas, I provided quite a few in the feedback megathread. The only problem I see with the ability is the total punch through that makes players use it as a ranged weapon and not powerful melee mode. Then again without the punch through EB is glorified +X% dmg buff. My suggestion would be this:

 

- EB produces waves that initially have 10-15 m range, and no punch through on environment.  

- Upon hitting an enemy with the physical manifestation of EB, the wave gains the present punch through effect, a speed boost, and can travel additional 15-20 m. 

 

Result: Wall cheesing is gone as the waves have no innate punch through. Similarly, wave sniping from behind a crate is also impossible because of the reduced range. The player is encourage to engage enemies in CQC for which he is rewarded with the better range and speed on his waves and the punch through. That way, if a player wants to use EB to it's fullest potential, he needs to throw himself into the thick of battle, and maneuver to keep as many enemies as possible in front of him, to maximize killing power from the waves. Essentially, more risk and a bit less reward.  

 

Edit: Ops, I have made a mistake in my own suggestion. I have disgraced my clan. Fixed now, tho. 

Edited July 3, 2015 by tisdfogg

[Rhokdelar]

To the OP. It really looks like you are only seeing him in low level missions.  Which frame dosent wreck low level enemies?.

 

All these whinning before his rework and after his rework is really stupid.

 

Just freakiing enjoy the game and the frame that you like to use and not "OH LOOK THAT FRAME IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN MINE.... MUST BE OP MUST RANT ON THE FORUMS".

 

Excalibur it NOT press to E to win you need to use his other abilities to work supper his 4th ability.  I still use radial blind with the augment slot to help my team for finishers and i still use radial blind build to support my team.

 

 

[Elkyx]

No harm done, I was a bit grumpy myself yesterday for which I apologize.

The equilibrium you have in mind, with all 4 players contributing equally, is a rare thing in Warframe, and I agree that it shouldn't be this way. However, your fix would take EB from "a bit too powerful and forgiving" to "annoying to use without max efficiency". Which is not a great improvement right? And in wouldn't change much in mid tier PUGs. The 4 spam problem is not something you can fix with a few nerfs to some abilities (although some frames deserve them for sure), but there are enough topics about it floating around, let's not derail this one.

As for my ideas, I provided quite a few in the feedback megathread. The only problem I see with the ability is the total punch through that makes players use it as a ranged weapon and not powerful melee mode. Then again without the punch through EB is glorified +X% dmg buff. My suggestion would be this:

- EB produces waves that initially have 10-15 m range, and no punch through on environment.

- Upon hitting an enemy with the physical manifestation of EB, the wave gains the present punch through effect, a speed boost, and can travel additional 15-20 m.

Result: Wall cheesing is gone as the waves have no innate punch through. Similarly, wave sniping from behind a crate is also impossible because of the reduced range. The player is encourage to engage enemies in CQC for which he is rewarded with the better range and speed on his waves and the punch through. That way, if a player wants to use EB to it's fullest potential, he needs to throw himself into the thick of battle, and maneuver to keep as many enemies as possible in front of him, to maximize killing power from the waves. Essentially, more risk and a bit less reward.

Edit: Ops, I have made a mistake in my own suggestion. I have disgraced my clan. Fixed now, tho.

The closest thing to a squad that works like clockwork, is a mesa, gmag, and frost, and any frame with a player good enough to cap points while everything is being instakilled. This team is straight evil, and trivializes pretty much all of the game, especially survival and defense, and of course Draco.

Team play imo should be LIKE this, but nowhere near as broken. Everybody should have something to do that contributes to the team. The mesa alone isn't op enough for Draco solo, because she could still get killed by people she isn't currently targeting. Frost can make his bubble all day, but without a nuke/dps, frost seems like he could be hard to play. And gmag is, gmag. And in some missions she's the best thing since sliced bread, but in others, that pull isn't going to help you when SP can't kill the enemy.

Like I said the team is unbalanced, but it does allow for actual teamwork. It's boring, but closer to what the game should be. Imagine if you were playing tf2 and they made heavy even stronger, to the point noone else got to play unless they were a heavy, or a medic. That's what saryn, mirage nova and excal now, can do.

I think that is peoples problem (and mine as well) with nukers, is that the game isn't yet balanced enough for other frames to have a reason to move in most content.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Elkyx

[tzaeru]

The equilibrium you have in mind, with all 4 players contributing equally, is a rare thing in Warframe, and I agree that it shouldn't be this way.

 

Obviously a perfect balance would be impossible, as players have different skill levels and an amazing player is more than ten-fold more effective than the average player, as in all games. And different Frames do different things, so definitely some will have considerably more damage dealt than others.

It's appreciated though that you can agree with the equilibrium being rarer than it should. I would be the last to want to make Excalibur useless, but somewhere out there there's a line between finding a better equilibrium and making a Frame/weapon useless.

 

- EB produces waves that initially have 10-15 m range, and no punch through on environment.  

- Upon hitting an enemy with the physical manifestation of EB, the wave gains the present punch through effect, a speed boost, and can travel additional 15-20 m. 

 

Result: Wall cheesing is gone as the waves have no innate punch through. Similarly, wave sniping from behind a crate is also impossible because of the reduced range. The player is encourage to engage enemies in CQC for which he is rewarded with the better range and speed on his waves and the punch through. That way, if a player wants to use EB to it's fullest potential, he needs to throw himself into the thick of battle, and maneuver to keep as many enemies as possible in front of him, to maximize killing power from the waves. Essentially, more risk and a bit less reward. 

That "nerf" could be the first thing to try, though I do remain skeptical on if it would be enough. But obviously that'd remain to be seen and I might be wrong there. ^^

 

 

To the OP. It really looks like you are only seeing him in low level missions.  Which frame dosent wreck low level enemies?.

 

All these whinning before his rework and after his rework is really stupid.

 

Just freakiing enjoy the game and the frame that you like to use and not "OH LOOK THAT FRAME IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN MINE.... MUST BE OP MUST RANT ON THE FORUMS".

 

Excalibur it NOT press to E to win you need to use his other abilities to work supper his 4th ability.  I still use radial blind with the augment slot to help my team for finishers and i still use radial blind build to support my team.

Eeehh, I don't know what you count as low level missions, but I'll say it the tenth time; You don't need a maximized build, you don't need particularly rare mods and you don't need particularly high playing skills to wreck missions between levels 0 and 45. You really start needing maximization beyond that and eventually, EB's damage too will drop off and real invulnerabilities or amazing CCs are started to be needed. But I still dare to make the claim that majority of players are not found in Tower survivals or Raids or so.

Edited July 3, 2015 by tzaeru

[Rhokdelar]

LOL seriously? That guys is a troll. So many people complaining about excal just cuz they are playing with people that can play far better than them. "That kid iz cuuler dan me! Nerf im!"

This thread should just be closed, clearly seeing his profile that he barely plays Excal which shows his trying to "Create a hot topic" of something he has no idea about.  I suggest everybody should stop responding to this thread and let it die.

[Faulcun]

You'd be surprised if you saw a tenth of what I've seen with people using E.Blade...

 

 

 

Im not surprised at all. This community has never been anything but full of the 9th level of unimaginable scrubbery.

[Elkyx]

This thread should just be closed, clearly seeing his profile that he barely plays Excal which shows his trying to "Create a hot topic" of something he has no idea about.  I suggest everybody should stop responding to this thread and let it die.

No.

[Jinryusai]

Well, do you have better ideas for it? Also it wouldn't be a "constant necessity", more like once every 2 minutes with some power max and power efficiency, unless something drained your energy .. but then, the current energy drainers are pretty silly and orbs barely help there.

The bugginess of the animation and sometimes it not firing properly is definitely something that needs fixing, but I think that's an independent topic from any actual nerfs to the ability.

 

Well surely in a team-game people should have the chance to feel useful in a squad! That's dead-obvious. Some of the Frames are, in my books, quite problematic too, such as Saryn & Miasma, but with some others you do end up needing at least a bit more skill and higher-tier mods than currently is needed for Exca for the level 0-50 content, if you want to be as effective. Hence, in practice, they end up problematic less often.

Most of the time, in most of the higher-mid-tier content that is frequented by all established players for keys or orokin cells or whatever, an okay player with an okay build does have a chance to feel useful in getting kills done and so forth. Obviously there will always be players who are ridiculously good and have awesome builds and could grab 95% of damage dealt with almost any frame or weapon, but these players are a rarity compared to how easy it is to trivialize the game with certain ultimate abilities. So there's room for pragmatism in here, I feel.

 

No? If that's the impression you got, then I apologize. As it's my second language, I don't always have a very accurate feeling for how harsh I come out.

So, we should basically piss off?

 

Have any ideas, then?

Well, his supposed overpowered blade isn't game breaking seeing as bullets are faster than waves and guns kill faster than waves. Even beams are instantanious. Many powerful weapons don't require top notch mods either.

[Faulcun]

I think it should work like zelda where you can only spam blades when your health and shields are full

[Rayden_Tenno]

No.

ah here we have the other guy. This one is as troll as OP is. He hasnt played a bit with excalibur but he thinks he knows how he works. And he has "500 hours" of gameplay. (more like 450 hours of afk with mesa in draco)

[Elkyx]

ah here we have the other guy. This one is as troll as OP is. He hasnt played a bit with excalibur but he thinks he knows how he works. And he has "500 hours" of gameplay. (more like 450 hours of afk with mesa in draco)

i do have mesa, but i only use her to help people level on draco, any other time i rarely use her 4, except to fill Ballistic.

and i never claimed to know how he works, i just said that in my opinion, he ruins the fun of the game. take your ad hominems and go somewhere else.

[StonedMakak]

That "nerf" could be the first thing to try, though I do remain skeptical on if it would be enough. But obviously that'd remain to be seen and I might be wrong there. ^^

 

Unfortunately, we don't have the luxury of having a dev build to test this stuff. And I usually advocate small or subtle changes for one, very pragmatic, reason - DE doesn't have the time to sit all day redesigning abilities.

 

From what I gathered around the forums, people's main problem with it is the fact that Excal can just run in circles mashing E, and something, somewhere, will die. Hence, my suggestion takes that away, without touching anything else. But you're right, it would have to be tested in practice.  

[(PSN)avatar-heart]

excal is not op.... in fact! if they buffed him again he would not be [OP]

 

his ult is not over powered- i dont get punch trough but so be it, 

 

i feel they should have energy waves expand also but that is not the point

 

THE FACT the he can take down lv 90 weak units does not make him op..... in fact i dont consider any of them OP unless they maintain themselves without the NEED for restores

 

he can do decent damage-kinda..... so leave if of buff it BECAUSE DE OOOOVVVERRRR nerf..... so use any word you want JUST not that word >_>

[Troll_Logic]

God I HATE excal now.

 

HATE HATE HATE.

 

Every game has some excal running around every second of the entire game CHWAAAAAA CHWAAAAAA CHWAAAAAAAA CHWAAAAAAA.  

 

The entire game.

 

It even gets better when there are two excaliburs running around they're both doing it EVERY FREAKIN SECOND.

 

Hate excal now.

[Jinryusai]

God I HATE excal now.

 

HATE HATE HATE.

 

Every game has some excal running around every second of the entire game CHWAAAAAA CHWAAAAAA CHWAAAAAAAA CHWAAAAAAA.  

 

The entire game.

 

It even gets better when there are two excaliburs running around they're both doing it EVERY FREAKIN SECOND.

 

Hate excal now.

Man, you must hate all the flavors of the month, eh?

 

What were you feelings back when there were a million Mirage clones in your faces or an abundances of vortexes and bounces and ZAP ZAP ZAP ZAP ZAP during the Vauban era or all the Hysteria love or all the shadows of the dead acting as roadblocks or the mag pulling or the switch teleporting or the massive influx of tornados blowing everything all over the place or the gmag taunting you with your taunt pull and you run for that recource, etc. etc. etc. all during the debut of all those warframes.

 

Must have been pur ehal during the Molecular prime era not to mention all the Miasma and mesa stealing all your kills.

 

Surely there are more annoyance than an army of Sirans(Dungeon Fighter Online), well, Excaliburs with there massive influx of energy waves.

 

And don't forget, the Limbo era...

 

Sucks to be you :)

[Jinryusai]

From what I gathered around the forums, people's main problem with it is the fact that Excal can just run in circles mashing E, and something, somewhere, will die. Hence, my suggestion takes that away, without touching anything else. But you're right, it would have to be tested in practice.  

Sounds a lot of a flamethrower or any continuous weapon especially in the hands of Mirage...

 

Hell, it also sounds a lot like the Amprex and Atomos with Ruminous Extension.

 

So many similarities to conventional beam weapons especially with extension.

 

But slower than actual bullets and worse than those bullets with punchthrough especially if the reload time is minimal.

 

So much to balance, so little time to care...

[StonedMakak]

Sounds a lot of a flamethrower or any continuous weapon especially in the hands of Mirage...

 

Hell, it also sounds a lot like the Amprex and Atomos with Ruminous Extension.

 

So many similarities to conventional beam weapons especially with extension.

 

But slower than actual bullets and worse than those bullets with punchthrough especially if the reload time is minimal.

 

So much to balance, so little time to care...

 

Yeah, you're right. It does sound similar. A melee frame's Ultimate that is meant to be beastly melee mode, is used as a wannabe beam weapon. I doubt if that was DE's intention. Doesn't seem right to me, so I can understand the complaints of others.

 

But I'm not complaining, I'm more of an adapt-to-circumstances kinda guy. If it stays the way it is, I'm cool with it. No point pretending that there is no cheese involved with it, though.

[Troll_Logic]

 

Sucks to be you :)

 

Not at all.

 

Oh, I reread your post and I don't believe there is such a thing as kill stealing.

 

And I don't care if there are 2 million Vaubans in a game.  There isn't that constant CHWAAAAAA CHWAAAAAA CHWAAAAAAAA CHWAAAAAAA CHWAAAAAA CHWAAAAAA CHWAAAAAAAA CHWAAAAAAA CHWAAAAAA CHWAAAAAA CHWAAAAAAAA CHWAAAAAAA CHWAAAAAA CHWAAAAAA CHWAAAAAAAA CHWAAAAAAA for the entire game.

Edited July 4, 2015 by DVIKVM

[Jinryusai]

So all that ZAP ZAP ZAP ZAP ZAP ZAP ZAP ZAP ZAP ZAP ZAP ZAP Bounce xinfinity never bothered you like it has others?

 

No other warframe grinds your gears...

 

Must be the Sound Effects of exalted Blade.

 

Perhaps it is not to your taste.