Raid Frames

[Doom_Bunny]

Right, I'm tired of people saying the raid is easy. Of course it's easy when we have frames that practicaly stop all combat. So what I want to do is rework the abilities that cause the raid to be easy but in way that allows for players to still be able to work with/around it.

 

Vauban:

Vauban's bastille ability is the one I'm most concerned with. Even though it only holds off a limited number of enemies, infinite bastiles can be casted to hold off all enemies. What I suggest is to limit the amount of castable bastilles to 2-4. I only suggest 2 beccause of bastilles large range. He still would be able to put down a new bastille but it will replace the oldest bastille.

 

Mirage:

I suggest lowering the range on the blind affect from prism. Right now it can be maxed out to 58.7 which is the usual max range for nuke abilities. However for a stun ability like this it's too much, like Excal's radial blind was. I suggest lowering the range but keep it decent at 20m-30m. It should still blind a room (as it doesn't require LOS) but it won't be as effective in the large raid rooms.

 

I had thought about lowering the stun duration but we just spam the ability anyway.

 

Trinity:

When in need of fixes nerf Trinity.

I was going to suggest limiting blessing to range which would force the team together. But the range might have to be fairly large as we tend to get seperated in large rooms or maps with multiple objectives.

 

The other suggstion was going to be individual healing. It slows the heal process down but you still would be able to heal from any where on the map. However that removes the group healing ability when in dire straits.

 

Loki:

Radial disarm haults all ranged combat from enemies in range of the ability. I think that radial disarm should have a timer before the enemy picks up their guns again. Although "end-game" enemies are still tough with the batons it should make things more interesting. This way ranged combat could be reinitated without the need for more enemy spawns.

I'm not sure how this helps as we can just spam the ability (as we do now) but it sounds like a possible path.

 

Nova:

I'm not so concerned with Nova as the enemy although slowed can still shoot back.

 

Nyx:

Again the enemy although "confused" will still shoot you so it's ok.

[Leavith]

You know i like what your thinking,but could you be thinking this the wrong way?

I mean if u debuff the abilities well the reason of bothering to carry those frames will become pointless.

Technically you can run raid full loki team

Invi loki

Radial Loki

Irradiate Loki

Safeguard Loki

.....Loki for days.

See even with your rework this is how i would go around that and you still would not fix the problem of it being easy

Get a bunch gear

4 corrosive

4 siphon energy

Make sure everyone has Primed Flow/qt/and rage

Get 2 loki to be irradiation duration loki

Get 2 loki to be safeguard Loki that can be switch teleporting the Carrier

Get 2 Loki to be irradiation Loki spam

Get 2 loki to be invi loki

(oh i know the example is loki team but hey ......anything is possiable really you can run full vauban team and the enemy still wouldn't move)

My loki itself has max efficiency,max range,and i still have duration that i can last in invi for my due time,plus i got room for qt/flow/rage and irradiate

 

Your technically not making it harder what would be appropriate approach to this would be To make Raid nightmare Raid minus the beef up of enemy just bring anti cipher,the energy drain from platform,and nullfiers.

[CheeZeWiz]

ITT we make warframe unplayable

[CY13ERPUNK]

IMHO  your suggestions are a bit heavy-handed and short-sighted, yes your changes would certainly change the dynamic of trials, they might not necessarily be the ideal changes for the game or for anything outside of the trials

 

take mirage's ULT for instance, instead of artificially changing its range, it should simply use LoS just like excal's blind does, especially considering how it makes no sense that 'MIRAGE' can blind enemies even if they cant see her or the disco ball...

 

id be fine with booben having a limit of how many bastilles he could have out, say 1 per rank

 

trinity IMHO is not the direct issue/problem, but she exacerbates the existing problems with the energy system, although i do think that the energy gained from her #2 should require the tenno to hit the tgt in melee, while the healing from her #1 should radiate pulses without requiring the tgt to be hit, and finally blessing should have a max range somewhere in the 40-60m, to prevent her from being able to save tenno on the other side of a huge map/mission, but still be viable for any team within a huge room

 

loki's radial disarm completely relies on the disarm being permanent, especially becuz it replaces the guns with batons (would really be nice if it just forced them to use their hands or an equipped melee instead of the dumb baton, but whatevs) ; IMHO radial disarm actually needs a buff/change, i think it should include a % chance to deal "crit dmg" to an enemy if their guns explode, something like 20/30/40/50% and then just deal some small dmg like 200/400/600/800 IPS(impact/puncture/slash even division) and knock enemies down if their gun blows up in their faces, additionally i would remove the dmg to infested units and instead have disarm permanently reduce their movspd/atkspd/dmg by 10/20/30/40% since they cant be 'disarmed' (same for any other melee-only units) % reductions not to be enhanceable with mods (or if they were, the base #'s would need to be lower) ; lastly and FINALLY, RADIAL DISARM SHOULD BE ABLE TO BE USED IN MID-AIR, like srsly wtf man, its been years now and excal can use rad-jav in mid-air and almost every other frame can use their nuke in mid-air, but loki cant use his disarm in mid-air? come on, what gives DE?!?!

 

agreed that nova is not a stickler issue anymore, she's seen plenty of viable tweaks already

 

nyx as well, her chaos although powerful, does not completely remove risk/danger during the trial (of course her psy-bolts is still one of the worst powers in the game, but that's another issue)

 

lastly, DE really needs to go back to the drawing board on the energy system, the blue balls and 75% efficiency and power pads have completely destroyed any kind of limiting factor that energy was originally supposed to play ; max energy efficiency should be 50% (adjust by reducing the benefits from streamline/fleeting by roughly half)

 

IMHO enemies should no longer drop the blue balls except for the use of certain specific frame abilities maybe, dropping from lockers/crates should still be fine though

 

all frames should have unique/different innate energy regen (mod-able by new mods) and then DE could balance the existing enemies/content around controlled rates of energy/power, instead of the current UNLIMITED POWA that tenno have

 

ie we could have a trial thats challenging becuz of the difficulty of the objective and the enemies that require the tenno to fight/destroy things and not just spam energy pads and heals becuz we are being drained of hp/energy non-stop =/

 

im not suggesting that we remove or completely gimp ability-focused play, but really abilities should be more tactical and have more 'OMPH' instead of being required to spam them non-stop and use unlimited energy to maintain high-level play [ ie more warframe and less farmframe ]

Edited July 3, 2015 by CY13ERPUNK

[CapedBaldy]

That's because you're punished for actually killing the enemies rather than locking them down so it's easy to handle them.

[Doom_Bunny]

Your technically not making it harder what would be appropriate approach to this would be To make Raid nightmare Raid minus the beef up of enemy just bring anti cipher,the energy drain from platform,and nullfiers.

Which would just render all abilities useless, why have them at all?

 

Also I though that you could only have two of the same frame in each party?

 

 

DE really needs to go back to the drawing board on the energy system, the blue balls and 75% efficiency and power pads have completely destroyed any kind of limiting factor that energy was originally supposed to play ; max energy efficiency should be 50% (adjust by reducing the benefits from streamline/fleeting by roughly half)

 

IMHO enemies should no longer drop the blue balls except for the use of certain specific frame abilities maybe, dropping from lockers/crates should still be fine though

 

all frames should have unique/different innate energy regen (mod-able by new mods) and then DE could balance the existing enemies/content around controlled rates of energy/power, instead of the current UNLIMITED POWA that tenno have

 

ie we could have a trial thats challenging becuz of the difficulty of the objective and the enemies that require the tenno to fight/destroy things and not just spam energy pads and heals becuz we are being drained of hp/energy non-stop =/

 

im not suggesting that we remove or completely gimp ability-focused play, but really abilities should be more tactical and have more 'OMPH' instead of being required to spam them non-stop and use unlimited energy to maintain high-level play [ ie more warframe and less farmframe ]

I agree that the energy mods have gone too far but I wouldn't go as far as to give tenno innate energy regen. Even if that was balanced it would mostly ruin the need for blue orbs and energy pads. As I recall relying soley on orbs was mostly good back in closed beta but now it's just too easy. So I wouldn't touch the orbs and pads for now but I would focus on the mods instead. We have almost 200% effeciency with only two mods and over 300 energy for most frames. If that's not enough we have rage and energy siphon to back us up.

[RealPandemonium]

ITT we make warframe unplayable

Well, it's arguably pretty hard to actually play the current sleep-inducing incarnation of Warframe for very long.  

Edited July 3, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[Marthrym]

Or you know, make it so that raids aren't OHK fests the second you don't CC lockdown every enemy that can even get one shot at you? That's the real issue here, we HAVE to use these "strategies" because DE just cannot/will not let of go this utterly broken scaling system. It's all or nothing, we're either OP, or the enemies are. The sweet spot is here somewhere, it's just smothered between the 2 extremes.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Marthrym

[RealPandemonium]

Or you know, make it so that raids aren't OHK fests the second you don't CC lockdown every enemy that can even get one shot at you? That's the real issue here, we HAVE to use these "strategies" because DE just cannot/will not let of go this utterly broken scaling system. It's all or nothing, we're either OP, or the enemies are. The sweet spot is here somewhere, it's just smothered between the 2 extremes.

It's sad, because things weren't nearly this bad when I started playing around U11.  Then DE started releasing more and more OP options to players and then started making content artificially harder to compensate.  The result is the broken mess that we have now.

[(PSN)Madkiller2580]

Please no Trinity nerf, she's fine >_>

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Even if you made Trinity's Blessing Heal diminish power over range like Oberon....she would still team-easy mode for the raid.

Toxin is your best friend.

But seriously, Trinity already had kidney removed and was left in an alley.....however she is a survivor....don't purposely remove a lung.

& Blind(Prism>Radial Blind) + Silence is better than Bastille, M-Prime, Radial Disarm..incapacitated enemies are harmless.

You know i like what your thinking,but could you be thinking this the wrong way?

I mean if u debuff the abilities well the reason of bothering to carry those frames will become pointless.

Technically you can run raid full loki team

Invi loki

Radial Loki

Irradiate Loki

Safeguard Loki

.....Loki for days.

See even with your rework this is how i would go around that and you still would not fix the problem of it being easy

Get a bunch gear

4 corrosive

4 siphon energy

Make sure everyone has Primed Flow/qt/and rage

Get 2 loki to be irradiation duration loki

Get 2 loki to be safeguard Loki that can be switch teleporting the Carrier

Get 2 Loki to be irradiation Loki spam

Get 2 loki to be invi loki

(oh i know the example is loki team but hey ......anything is possiable really you can run full vauban team and the enemy still wouldn't move)

My loki itself has max efficiency,max range,and i still have duration that i can last in invi for my due time,plus i got room for qt/flow/rage and irradiate

Your technically not making it harder what would be appropriate approach to this would be To make Raid nightmare Raid minus the beef up of enemy just bring anti cipher,the energy drain from platform,and nullfiers.

I think you can only run 8 of same.frame on noraml raid. I don't think you can run more than 2 of same frame on Nightmare

I am probably wrong....I just remembering not being able to start Nightmare raid when we had 4 Loki/Prime(Could have just been a bug)

... We have almost 200% effeciency with only two mods and over 300 energy for most frames. If that's not enough we have rage and energy siphon to back us up.

Actual power efficiency is capped at 175%. Anything higher than 175% efficiency is excess. Only reason to use both Max Fleeting Expertise and Max Streamline is to offset negative efficiency from Blind Rage. Edited July 3, 2015 by (PS4)MrNishi

[Doom_Bunny]

Or you know, make it so that raids aren't OHK fests the second you don't CC lockdown every enemy that can even get one shot at you? That's the real issue here, we HAVE to use these "strategies" because DE just cannot/will not let of go this utterly broken scaling system. It's all or nothing, we're either OP, or the enemies are. The sweet spot is here somewhere, it's just smothered between the 2 extremes.

Yeah I know DE is being stubborn about the scaling system. If they're not going to budge might as well give suggestions using their way.

 

Even if you made Trinity's Blessing Heal diminish power over range like Oberon....she would still team-easy mode for the raid.

Actual power efficiency is capped at 175%. Anything higher than 175% efficiency is excess. Only reason to use both Max Fleeting Expertise and Max Streamline is to offset negative efficiency from Blind Rage.

Oberon has infinte range the only thing diminishing it is travel time. If Trinity was limited by range she wouldn't be able to heal another team mate across the map instantly. Which would make it harder for the team to survive.

 

Which is why I said almost 200%.

Using both efficiency mods to negate blind rage is not the only reason to use them both at the same time. For many frames and various other frames during raids, blind rage isn't used because it's the utility of the ability that people want not the damage. So you jsut throw on both efficiency mods and spam.

[(PSN)avatar-heart]

did you just say nerf trin..... im a valk user myself but i can tell so many people bad on trin.....just do not

 

team needs certain builds for everything.... if i had to say... nova seems like one of the key players with loki for frames that cannot take a hit