How Is Greedy Pull An Exploit ? If Its Working As Intended

[Volume]

I really do wonder if DE ever regrets bringing in Greedy Pull.

 

I really do wonder if DE ever regrets making Draco.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

working as intended? that's curious.

Pull is Constrained by LoS. on purpose, because being able to permanently CC all Enemies within 2.x Tiles in front of you was pretty Overpowered in the past. so LoS constrained.

Greedy Pull removes that. you can Pull Enemies through Walls again.

working as intended? do tell.

+1

'Working as intended' as in it was release to the masses this way, if De actually tested their content then they would of known about what you just described soo... YES working as intended.

Last I checked, this is not the final build and game is classified as Open Beta.

So it is still being tested and adjusted.

Just because bugs remain persistent through multiple builds does not mean they are working as intended.

Due to Rebecca's post about diminished melee range....that issue does not seem to be working as intended, but has been included in multiple builds (Post 16.5).

Bluescreens and Unsave Server Progress....are persistent, but I would be crossed if those are considered "Working as Intended"

Game is constantly growing " for better or worse" and that means things are bound to change.

-Sometimes things get broken or players find a way to abuse mechanics for a faster grind/mission complete.

(Look at the Fastest Obstacle Course times and solemnly tell me that the mechanic used was "working as Intended ")

[f3llyn]

It's too bad that so much valid feedback about the broken loot/affinity system is being used as a silly argument to keep gpull the way it is.  We just need one mega cry thread where all the gpull addicts can get it out and reassure each other.  Oh well, at least DE are showing a little sanity in doing something about the problem.  Hopefully they can soon move on to the separate problem of affinity and loot rewards.  Please DE, move this up on the list.

 

You mean because they haven't had time to fix it in the last 2 and half to 3 years? If they actually had any interest in doing so?

Edited July 6, 2015 by f3llyn

[f3llyn]

+1

Last I checked, this is not the final build and game is classified as Open Beta.

So it is still being tested and adjusted.

Just because bugs remain persistent through multiple builds does not mean they are working as intended.

Due to Rebecca's post about diminished melee range....that issue does not seem to be working as intended, but has been included in multiple builds (Post 16.5).

Bluescreens and Unsave Server Progress....are persistent, but I would be crossed if those are considered "Working as Intended"

Game is constantly growing " for better or worse" and that means things are bound to change.

-Sometimes things get broken or players find a way to abuse mechanics for a faster grind/mission complete.

(Look at the Fastest Obstacle Course times and solemnly tell me that the mechanic used was "working as Intended ")

 

You're trying to compare apples and oranges and that just doesn't work as you may well know.

 

For starters those things you're talking about are very obviously bugs and greedy pull is working exactly as it's described it should work

[Wotca]

You mean because they haven't had time to fix it in the last 2 and half to 3 years? If they actually had any interest in doing so?

I'm not trying to heckle you or anything, but if you're that cynical of DE's intentions how are you able to look at game feedback objectively?  

[(PSN)r_3v1l_e]

I like how you guys sit around and talk crap about de in all sorts of manner and call them cash grabbers and things.

 

only to forget that they release hotfixes and patches on sundays and weekends, work through holidays and are always posting and gathering feedback in the forums.  you forget how often thy stay up till 3 or 4 in the morning trying to make sure they get the update as clean as possible.

 

 

tell me those are the actions of a cash grabber.

 

they sound more like the self sacrifice of a dev who loves the game.

 

No that sounds like people that get paid by the hour.  My god the overtime! This is not a matter of self sacrifice, as self sacrifice is defined as "the giving up of one's own interests or wishes in order to help others or to advance a cause".  The developers get paid to do those things.

[KenseiOmega]

Personally I don't understand the rancor. G Pull in it's current form is going away. It's happening. It just is. You wanna talk about reducing the grind talk on that point. Don't say "we need G Pull because otherwise Mag is useless" or other somesuch. Fracturing Crush is kinda a big thing. Mag has an important role in the raid and high level play.

Edited July 6, 2015 by KenseiOmega

[f3llyn]

I'm not trying to heckle you or anything, but if you're that cynical of DE's intentions how are you able to look at game feedback objectively?  

 

Because out of all the issues this game has ever had this issue is by far the most complained and talked about for the last 2 and a half years since u7.

 

They've literally done nothing to actually try to fix the problem and actually went out of their way to make it worse in a lot of ways.

 

Who remembers what they were requiring people to do when they first put in nekros? Or how they're on this trend where new weapons require other weapons to build? Or how they've actually reduced the drop rate of r5 cores and any number of other mods? Or how they've reduced the amount of credits missions give multiple times?

 

Or any number of other things that enhance the grind, not reduce it? I do.

 

It's hard to not be cynical about this when they've literally ignored years worth of feedback on this particular issue.

Edited July 6, 2015 by f3llyn

[Acos]

I really do wonder if DE ever regrets making Draco.

 

Probably, since they're addressing both Greedy Mag and Draco (and the whole star chart). 

[Invalid_Infinity]

+1

Last I checked, this is not the final build and game is classified as Open Beta.

So it is still being tested and adjusted.

Just because bugs remain persistent through multiple builds does not mean they are working as intended.

Due to Rebecca's post about diminished melee range....that issue does not seem to be working as intended, but has been included in multiple builds (Post 16.5).

Bluescreens and Unsave Server Progress....are persistent, but I would be crossed if those are considered "Working as Intended"

Game is constantly growing " for better or worse" and that means things are bound to change.

-Sometimes things get broken or players find a way to abuse mechanics for a faster grind/mission complete.

(Look at the Fastest Obstacle Course times and solemnly tell me that the mechanic used was "working as Intended ")

Have you seen this game? I don't think this classifies as a beta anymore. They are using "beta" to draw in new players and also use it as an excuse for changing things.

 

Because out of all the issues this game has ever had this issue is by far the most complained and talked about for the last 2 and a half years since u7.

 

They've literally done nothing to actually try to fix the problem and actually went out of their way to make it worse in a lot of ways.

 

Who remembers what they were requiring people to do when they first put in nekros? Or how they're on this trend where new weapons require other weapons to build? Or how they've actually reduced the drop rate of r5 cores and any number of other mods? Or how they've reduced the amount of credits missions give multiple times?

 

Or any number of other things that enhance the grind, not reduce it? I do.

 

It's hard to not be cynical about this when they've literally ignored years worth of feedback on this particular issue.

Indeed. After dealing with it for so long I'm getting damn tired of it.

 

And they say they "listen to their players". Hah.

[DitsyPixie]

Also they aren't this huge triple A developer they are humans and small. They probably have a small team of 3-5 people who create the Augment mods. Their job is to make augments that the other devs like and make sure they work. Exploits aren't obvious to them because they spend more time developing then playing the game.

Uhm... what? they're no Treyarch but they have 100+ of employes. Not exactly small either. And whut? Devs=humans, company=company. DE is a company. Some players really seem to buy into the whole "oh we're just the small indie devs from next door"-shtick they conjure up with their dev streams.

 

Last I checked, this is not the final build and game is classified as Open Beta.

Open Beta pretty much has lost any real meaning because it continues to get abused by many companies, like in this case DE and WF.

I'm pretty much on the same page as totalbuiscit: If the game has a real money shop, it's not a beta anymore - the company is asking players for real money and thus they're out on the marketplace and can't use the crutch of "oh we're just a poor open beta, see?" as a cheap deflection tactic.

 

No that sounds like people that get paid by the hour.  My god the overtime! This is not a matter of self sacrifice, as self sacrifice is defined as "the giving up of one's own interests or wishes in order to help others or to advance a cause".  The developers get paid to do those things.

^This. So much. So many players just seem to not have a clue or put a blind eye to the business side of things.

[(XBOX)SlyTYRANT]

H > Triton, need gp mag

H > Draco, need gp mag

H > T4 defence, need gp mag

TRITON NEED FROST.

DEFENSE NEED FROST.

T4 INT NEED FROST

What's so different ?

[Invalid_Infinity]

Uhm... what? they're no Treyarch but they have 100+ of employes. Not exactly small either. And whut? Devs=humans, company=company. DE is a company. Some players really seem to buy into the whole "oh we're just the small indie devs from next door"-shtick they conjure up with their dev streams.

 

Open Beta pretty much has lost any real meaning because it continues to get abused by many companies, like in this case DE and WF.

I'm pretty much on the same page as totalbuiscit: If the game has a real money shop, it's not a beta anymore - the company is asking players for real money and thus they're out on the marketplace and can't use the crutch of "oh we're just a poor open beta, see?" as a cheap deflection tactic.

 

^This. So much. So many players just seem to not have a clue or put a blind eye to the business side of things.

I agree with all of what you said.

 

On that last point though, there is a specific word for that.

It's called "ignorance" or "fanboying". 

[Grittle]

H > Triton, need gp mag

H > Draco, need gp mag

H > T4 defence, need gp mag

 

This is not how the game is supposed to be played. Yes I know people find the most efficient methods to get what they want due to the huge grindwall but that doesn't mean you let 1 button do all the work for you. The augment itself is corrupt and needs to be gotten rid of instead of being nerfed into a self-serving mod which is going to become superfluous IMO.

You mean

 

H > Triton, need Nekcros

H > Draco, need Nekros

H > T4 defence, need Nekros

 

Well, since Nekros is usually wanted for xtreme farming. lets nerf his farming capabilities to near uselessness. maybe only desecrating ammo or only the person who desecrated can receive the bonus loot.

[KenseiOmega]

 

You mean

 

H > Triton, need Nekcros

H > Draco, need Nekros

H > T4 defence, need Nekros

 

Well, since Nekros is usually wanted for xtreme farming. lets nerf his farming capabilities to near uselessness. maybe only desecrating ammo or only the person who desecrated can receive the bonus loot.

 

Nope. Because Nekros is seen as a luxury. Cool if you have him but not the end of the world if you don't. People will not wipe their own &#! without a gmag right now.

[Wotca]

Because out of all the issues this game has ever had this issue is by far the most complained and talked about for the last 2 and a half years since u7.

 

They've literally done nothing to actually try to fix the problem and actually went out of their way to make it worse in a lot of ways.

 

Who remembers what they were requiring people to do when they first put in nekros? Or how they're on this trend where new weapons require other weapons to build? Or how they've actually reduced the drop rate of r5 cores and any number of other mods? Or how they've reduced the amount of credits missions give multiple times?

 

Or any number of other things that enhance the grind, not reduce it? I do.

 

It's hard to not be cynical about this when they've literally ignored years worth of feedback on this particular issue.

Ok, fair points.  I really don't always understand where some of the frustration comes from because I haven't been around for years.  I've played the crap out of the game but I haven't been dealing with the issues as long as some.  My brain is still in the "let's give them a chance" stage.  I have some hope left!

[Lakais]

Greedy Pull is annoying to me, personally, Simple as that. I like scouring the map for loot, keeps me moving and engaged. But what I DO think is wrong with the ability is actually something that I believe is more wide-spread: The lack of restrictions.

 

Now I don't mean "MOAR NULLIFIERS!". What I mean is that there's a large number of abilities that have INSANE range to them, and that go through terrain as well. GP is simply the current hot topic, that's all. I don't like the "Aim in general direction and win" thing but if you're that hard set to get that X,Y or Z "RIGHT MEOW!" then go for it. 

 

But if we talk about restrictions, I honestly that there needs to be a rather basic wave of nerfs to abilites. Like LoS changes to abilites where it makes sense. Your map covering ability shouldn't go through walls. And even if it did, it should of been dampened enough to at best be half as powerful as it is at ground zero. 

And as for augments, maybe they should be more specific. Like with Greedy Pull, it ONLY pulls ammo and resources. But not health and energy drops. This means that the utility of the augment (kill enemies, get their stuff) remains intact, it's just one of the sources that feeds this spam (energy spheres) is gone. Theoretically curbing the use because the energy you spend won't just fly right back at your face. You can bypass this with consumables, but that's a price you pay, and that makes it (mostly) ok. 

 

I am also against nerfing the augment abilites by giving them downsides. I personally don't use them. But considering that to use them,

you give up one rather precious mod slot, you are paying a high price so a direct upgrade is worth it. But that upgrade shouldn't be THAT earth-shattering to be a "must have or else you are a scrub" 

[Invalid_Infinity]

Greedy Pull is annoying to me, personally, Simple as that. I like scouring the map for loot, keeps me moving and engaged. But what I DO think is wrong with the ability is actually something that I believe is more wide-spread: The lack of restrictions.

 

Now I don't mean "MOAR NULLIFIERS!". What I mean is that there's a large number of abilities that have INSANE range to them, and that go through terrain as well. GP is simply the current hot topic, that's all. I don't like the "Aim in general direction and win" thing but if you're that hard set to get that X,Y or Z "RIGHT MEOW!" then go for it. 

 

But if we talk about restrictions, I honestly that there needs to be a rather basic wave of nerfs to abilites. Like LoS changes to abilites where it makes sense. Your map covering ability shouldn't go through walls. And even if it did, it should of been dampened enough to at best be half as powerful as it is at ground zero. 

And as for augments, maybe they should be more specific. Like with Greedy Pull, it ONLY pulls ammo and resources. But not health and energy drops. This means that the utility of the augment (kill enemies, get their stuff) remains intact, it's just one of the sources that feeds this spam (energy spheres) is gone. Theoretically curbing the use because the energy you spend won't just fly right back at your face. You can bypass this with consumables, but that's a price you pay, and that makes it (mostly) ok. 

 

I am also against nerfing the augment abilites by giving them downsides. I personally don't use them. But considering that to use them,

you give up one rather precious mod slot, you are paying a high price so a direct upgrade is worth it. But that upgrade shouldn't be THAT earth-shattering to be a "must have or else you are a scrub" 

What about a greedy pull that only pulls loot, energy, health, and ammo drops? In other words it ignores the enemies.

[Lakais]

What about a greedy pull that only pulls loot, energy, health, and ammo drops? In other words it ignores the enemies.

That is completely in the "sidegrade" category. I'd understand this approach if these augments were separate from the mod slots. But as it goes, this change would give up one very VERY important part of Pull (damage and CC) for extra novelty-utility. 

 

Since augments occupy mod slots. you have to make a very important choice on what you want, or don't want on your warframe. By definition (to me) those that use augment mods are inherently more "ability focused". You give up survival (for example) for your ability having an extra bell or whistle on it.

Since you are giving up a mod slot that would otherwise be used by an another rather important mod, I can't see it being fair that augment mods sidegrade your abilites. Giving up one thing for an another. Instead being direct upgrades or bonuses to your abilites. 

 

Problem with GP I see is that it has insane range and doesn't take terrain into consideration (at least doesn't seem to be doing that). And in most ways it's a "self feeding" ability where you use the ability and it yanks stuff like extra energy at you. Meaning you earn back all the energy you used to cast that ability by casting that ability. 

[(PSN)Itsa_me_MG]

Not wanting to duplicate posts, here my penny's worth.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/484616-july-3rd-community-hot-topics/page-9#entry5431585