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Ash's Rising Storm Augment - A Study


Sci_Ant
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So I like to play Ash every once in a while when I just want to kill stuff and for it to look cool. XD

 

With the recent release of Ash Prime I went back to re-evaluate my Bladestorm build and thought I could use Rising Storm since I have never used it before. So I tried to do some research on how it worked, on the forums and online, but could not get conclusive answers and wanted to see for myself how it would work in practice so I did couple of tests that I would like to share here.

 

Basic info about the combo multiplier from the wiki is here >

Combo Counter

Each successful consecutive melee hit against enemies with a Melee weapon equipped within a short period of time will start a Combo Counter that appears above the weapon UI, which tracks how many hits have been performed. Once a certain number of consecutive hits have been made, a Damage Multiplier will be given to the Melee weapon, increasing the weapon's overall damage. The Damage Multiplier increases as larger consecutive hit counts are achieved, allowing for greater damage against larger numbers of tougher enemies. The Combo Counter resets if no enemies are hit after 3 seconds.

The Damage Multiplier starts at 1.5X the weapon's base damage after five consecutive hits. The multiplier is increased by +.5X after achieving three times the number of hits of the previous multiplier, i.e. 15 consecutive hits yield a 2X Damage Multiplier, 45 consecutive hits yield 2.5X Damage, 135 hits yield 3X Damage, 405 hits yield 3.5x etc.

 

Currently there no known limit to the Damage Multiplier, thus it's theoretically possible to attain massive damage multiplier numbers of 5X or more. In practice, the number of possible consecutive hits is limited by the number of enemies, their durability, and the player's skill at connecting combos to other enemies.

 

Ash's Blade Storm contributes to the Combo Counter, allowing it to start and chain Combo hits.

 

Valkyr's Hysteria and Excalibur's Exalted Blade also utilize the Combo Counter, allowing their damage output to increase with consecutive attacks.

 

Despite its name, the Combo Counter should not be confused with the Combos performed using Stance Mods. The Combo Counter will count all melee attacks performed while equipping Melee weapons, including stealth attacks.

 

The Combo Counter appears to count attacks performed while having Primary or Secondary weapons equipped.

 

Immediately switching to a melee weapon within 4 seconds will show the amount of hits performed before the switch.

 

Melee hits against objects, like Mining Equipment, do not count towards the Combo Counter.

 

The Combo Counter does not increase the damage of prompted stealth attacks or prompted finisher attacks.

 

 

RISING STORM ONLY WITH BLADESTORM

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FIRST TEST

 

This was to determine whether the melee combo multiplier affected Bladestorm when a melee weapon was not equipped. So I did 2 tests, one without a melee and one with a melee equipped.

 

In both tests I get the same damage numbers :

2216 = 1 x damage at first strike

3324 = 1.5 x damage after a few strikes

4432 = 2 x damage after even more strikes

 

The damage in both the videos correspond meaning that the combo counter works for Bladestorm regardless of whether a melee weapon is equipped or not.

 

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SECOND TEST

 

This was to test the duration of the combo counter when I had Rising Storm equipped. The build used was 67 % power duration and 200 % power strength.

 

The last damage after reaching 45 strikes is 9983 or almost 10k which is in line with the expected value. The combo multiplier lasts around 4 seconds, the expected value of 3 x 2 x 0.67 = 4 seconds.

 

This means that Rising Storm is affected by Duration mods and will give 6 seconds only with 100 % base power duration.

 

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THIRD TEST

 

This was to see if Bladestorm is affected by stealth multipliers or not. I spawned a few Butchers, let them go into non alert state, then attacked them while invisible. The build used was 185 % power strength to give 3700 damage per strike. I also went ingame to make sure and luckily got a Stealth kills mini objective to prove it was not affected by stealth without a doubt.

 

The damage observed on the first few strikes in both videos is 3694 or almost 3700, the expected value.

 

This means that invisibility or stealth multipliers do not affect Bladestorm.

 

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FINAL BUILD

 

So I made a build for Rising Storm as follows >

h9K8doQ.jpg

 

Tested this build in the Sim and in game to get the following results >

5G7yHkH.jpg

32pJjB6.jpg

 

Managed to easily reach 139 x combo with 3 x damage multiplier after around 3 Bladestorm's in a Grineer defense and 182 x combo with many chained Bladestorms when there were many enemies in T3 defense.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CONCULSIONS (TL;DR) :

 

1. Rising Storm and combo multiplier works regardless of whether a melee weapon is equipped or not.

2. Rising Storm augment is affected by duration mods after applying the 100 % increase (only for negative or base duration).

 

Therefore, Rising Storm Duration for negative or base power duration = 6 x (Power duration/100)

 

3. Invisibility or stealth multipliers do not affect Bladestorm damage.

 

Advantages of using Rising Storm with Bladestorm:

 

1. To keep the Bladestorm damage at a high multiplier like 2.5 x or 3 x at all times for Bladestorm spammers. This means that after increasing the combo multiplier from a first Bladestorm, it will apply the increased damage directly on the first enemy in the next Bladestorm initiated within 6 seconds in a 100% base duration build.

2. To make it easier to reach a high combo multiplier of 2.5 x or 3 x while chaining Bladestorms.

3. To increase the damage of Bladestorm in Duration specific builds for more invisibility, without having to use power strength mods.

4. To gain more duration for invisibility while sacrificing power strength mods and not losing overall damage output.

 

As an example of the last point, I was previously using a 230 % power strength build so that would give me 9200 damage per strike after gaining a 2 x damage multiplier from 15 strikes. The overall damage per strike including bleedout would be 31740. Without Rising Storm I would lose that damage after 3 seconds of not using another Bladestorm after the first one ends.

 

With my Rising Storm build with 185 % power strength I could reach a damage multiplier of 2.5 with 45 strikes on a large group of enemies or by chaining BS on smaller groups within 6 seconds of each other to get 9250 damage per strike that I can maintain between Bladestorms. The total damage including bleedout would be 31912.5 per strike, but the difference here is that I will maintain that damage and gain more damage between Bladestorms.

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RISING STORM WITH BLADESTORM AND THEN MELEE

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These tests were done to determine the effect of duration mods on Rising Storm augment when used along with melee. For this 4 tests were done to determine the Rising Storm and melee combo counter duration with different power durations from mods.

Youtube taking too long to process videos so I've uploaded them in a compressed file to Google Docs > https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6Iv0IAMwbTERVA2U0xGVmlPdXM/view?usp=sharing

 

In the first test 169 % power Duration was used giving around 8 seconds on both the Rising Storm combo and Melee combo counters, whereas it should give around 10.

 

In the second test 232 % power duration was used and it showed around 9 to 10 seconds on both the Rising Storm combo and Melee combo counters, whereas it should give around 14 seconds.

 

In the third test 282 % power duration (max) was used and it showed around 11 seconds on both the Rising Storm combo and Melee combo counters, whereas it should give around 17 seconds.

 

It has been discussed online and on the wiki that the cap on the duration is 8 seconds but this is not the case. The effective cap on power duration mods may be 8 seconds after which there is a drastic reduction for any power duration above 133 % which should give 8 seconds. To confirm this the last test was done with 141 % power duration.

 

The result is that the combo multiplier lasts for around 7 seconds instead of 8. This leads to the conclusion that any power duration over 100 % has a much smaller effect on the Rising Storm augment than expected.

 

The final conclusion is that the calculation for power duration for the augment is as follows:

 

Rising Storm Duration for positive power duration = 3 + (3 * Power Duration/100)

 

To verify:

 

1. In the first test the duration is 8 seconds and according to the equation duration = 3 + 3 * 1.69 = 3 + 5.07 = 8.07 seconds

 

2. In the second test the duration is around 9 to 10 seconds and according to the equation duration = 3 + 3 * 2.32 = 9.96 seconds

 

3. In the third test the duration is around 11 seconds and according to the equation duration = 3 + 3 * 2.82 = 11.46 seconds

 

4. In the fourth test the duration is around 7 seconds and according to the equation duration = 3 + 3 * 1.41 = 7.23 seconds

 

Since all four of the values correspond closely we can safely assume that the calculation for positive power duration works according to the above formula.

 

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FINAL BUILD

 

Bladestorm with melee build >

zGrTplU.jpg

 

141 % power duration is used to get around 11 seconds on Smoke Screen and around 7 seconds on Rising Storm melee combo counter. Overextended is used to reach more enemies with each cast of Bladestorm so as to get a higher combo counter initially. It can be replaced with Stretch if playing in a smaller tileset like a defense since enemies will be closer together anyway.

 

More duration can be used as per your preference.

 

Melee centric build > 

 

This involves a lot more duration while keeping Bladestorm only as a combo counter initiator.

G7Qc2vV.jpg

 

In game result of the above build, while using a low ranked weapon with a few mods on high level Grineer map (Kiste, Ceres), I easily managed to reach the 3 x multiplier with using 1 Bladestorm and then just meleeing while invisible. This shows how potent this mod is for a melee Ash  >

 

72b09SA.jpg

 

Even better results with infested, use Bladestorm once and managed to reach 500 + combo in a short time on a Dark Sector Survival.

 

Ycrj3ET.jpg

 

 

 

> In game results from user LazerSkink, using a melee centric combo builder build > https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/489835-ashs-rising-storm-augment-a-study/page-2#entry5515084

 

xMHeD0t.jpg

nQLr7VR.jpg

 

Build used >

 

8kdfIi1.jpg

 

 

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CONCULSIONS (TL;DR) :

 

1. Melee attacks after use of a Rising Storm Bladestorm treats each melee strike as a part of the Rising Storm duration resetting it to its initial duration with each strike. (For example: 141% Power duration gives 7.46 seconds on the combo counter, which resets to 7.46 seconds for any melee strike done after the Bladestorm.)

 

2. The melee combo counter is not reset to 0 when it is started and then you melee strike in the air, miss strikes, hit objects or by using other powers. Therefore, one can hit anything or copter without risk of losing the combo counter.

 

Advantages of using Rising Storm with Bladestorm and then Meleeing:

 

1. To quickly gain high multipliers on the melee combo counter and then having an extended duration in which to melee to continue to gain combo counts.

 

2. To gain higher period on invisibility and use Bladestorm not as a spam ability but to gain high melee damage and increase the melee damage through more melee strikes.

 

3. To gain more melee damage much faster in melee centric situations such as Infested maps or playing with a Disarm Loki.

 

Thanks for reading and I hope it helps!

 

 

My other guides >

Sci_Ant's Comprehensive Chroma Armor Build Guide [in-Depth With Calculations And Results]

[Guide] Parkour 2.0 Tips And Tricks / Tutorial Videos Collection

Edited by Sci_Ant
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^Blade Storm has an attack radius of of 8.5m with that build...

 

 

The purpose is not to use Blade Storm to attack, it's to use Blade Storm only and only to begin the long combo timer. Like I said, this build is not something "endgame" or something team focused, this build is high combo achievement.

Edited by LazerSkink
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The purpose is not to use Blade Storm to attack, it's to use Blade Storm only and only to begin the long combo timer. Like I said, this build is not something "endgame" or something team focused, this build is high combo achievement.

I usually use Constitution instead of Handspring and Armored Agility/Rush instead of Quick Rest.

Glad someone else does the same thing too with Blade Storm and Rising Storm.

 

Which mission modes/factions do you find to be the easiest to get 500+ combos?

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I usually use Constitution instead of Handspring and Armored Agility/Rush instead of Quick Rest.

Glad someone else does the same thing too with Blade Storm and Rising Storm.

 

Which mission modes/factions do you find to be the easiest to get 500+ combos?

 

 

Well first I want to say that considering I need lots of Stamina for melee, Quick Rest takes care of the many pauses that happen when needed of transition.

 

Handspring is terribly underrated. Constution I don't find to make a big difference. The recovery period of Constitution is still too slow for Infesed survival. With the Infested, you're constantly being MOA AoE slammed, Ancient grappled, Leaper leaped, Ancient grappled again, and Handspring is the ultimate mod to counter this.

 

Anyways, I go to mid-high level Dark Sector survival nodes to gain 500+ combos, primarily Arcadia, Cameria, Assur (which also gives bonus kills from melee), and Hieracon for the ultimate challenge.

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Iv' tried similar build ( except siphon and stretch ) but i still dont like play with ult...

Indeed you gain lot of damage, but your stealth is pretty weak and i prefer longuer invisibility for more support teamplay ash ( revive allies easier, better team steatlth )

Otherwise, ulti is very borring and dangerous because when started you cannot interrupt... So yes, yo gain hit combo x 2 or x 3 easy at level 80 + but you loose  about 5-10 sec each time your using ult, when you can stealth + teleport and doing stealth attack on harder ennemies and still os the weakers 

They need to rework shuriken and ult.. Ulti is the most " drop keyboard and take coffee" ulti ever... 

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I primarily use Blade Storm for combos with melee and only begin the run with one or two Blade Storms. I go to Dark Sector Survival and at the point where spawns become more active I Blade Storm once and let it begin. I use a high duration build with base power strength, but that's just me.

 

I have not bothered placing Rising Storm in a Blade Storm build of mine just yet.

 

This is something that happened a while ago:

xMHeD0t.jpg

 

Your statement that you have yet to place the augment in a Bladestorm build may have been why Darzk misunderstood you were talking about your melee build. 

 

That is false, I did equip the augment to get that kind of combo counter. No enemy spawns in game support a 4 second timer.

 

 

 

I did use the augment, I have no idea what you're talking about.

j3YDipo.jpg

 

 

You may use my original image as reference if you please, but note that I only used Blade Storm about 2-3 times and then melee only from there.

 

The sole purpose of this build is to gain a high combo. This is purely for fun and my only goal when I uset his build for combos is nothing but combos.

 

Thanks for your build, I will use both these images and add them back to the OP.

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Your statement that you have yet to place the augment in a Bladestorm build may have been why Darzk misunderstood you were talking about your melee build. 

 

 

Thanks for your build, I will use both these images and add them back to the OP.

 

 

Again, keep in mind that this build is meant for combos only and uses no bonus Power Strength. Same applied to Ash Prime if you need:

8gXCE2l.jpg

Edited by LazerSkink
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Again, keep in mind that this build is meant for combos only and uses no bonus Power Strength. Same applied to Ash Prime if you need:

8gXCE2l.jpg

 

Yeah, I've added your results and build as a melee centric combo builder build. :)

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Yeah, I've added your results and build as a melee centric combo builder build. :)

I now have updated results. I was once again motivated enough to exceed 1000+ in combos and have now ended up with 1111 hits using the same build in the same situation. This time though, instead of Cameria, Jupiter, I used Kelashin, Neptune.

I managed to land many more hits even after life support ran out.

nQLr7VR.jpg

Same build:

SNbY4u9.jpg

I have now taken past failures as gathered information and have come down to the following:

1. I recommend (if you are doing Infested missions or any at all really) that you pick a node that has a higher spawn rate scattered more across the map

2. Your biggest threat while attempting for a high combo in these specific missions is transitioning from one room to the next in order to be near a Life Support capsule

What I recommend:

1. Frequently dividing your attention between the life support percentage and your combo counter. You will want to transition rooms early, I say about before 40% if there are no other capsules left in your current vicinity

2. Transition slowly. This is why I say 40%. There is a high chance that you will end up with a capsule/series of capsules located incredibly far from your current physical area. In order to get enemies to begin spawning from the direction you are heading to and slowly deteriorate the spawns where you're headed from, you must transition rooms slowly while still meleeing enemies that are chasing you down (this is the best way to do it as you do not need to make repeated turnarounds if no enemies are spawning from your destination's vicinity which is why I recommend Infested missions or if you are partnered with a Disarm Loki with the soul intention of just disarming).

Edited by LazerSkink
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In my opnion, having large combo does not compensate the damage you lsot compared to having max damage and efficiency.

 

2000 damage x 3.5 is only 7.5k

 

even with max duration mod, it can only strike 17 targets. Even if it is the same target it still count as 1 hit.

 

If you equip with normal blind rage and transient intesify and energy effciency ( fleetign and streamline)

 

you can have 1.84 x 2000 x 2 ( now it only take 55 aman to cast it)

 

but having large combo does giving a satisfying feel

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I just read this and I think you did a great job.

However I might have missed it but... did you mention how range would affect a bladestorm build?

If I understand correctly from wiki.. a higher range will affect how far away you can target the enemy for bladestorm, and also affect the number of enemies targeted for bladestorm.

I'm currently on rising storm build with a Maxed range and high power strength.

Your tests on how duration affected the melee multiplier opened up new grounds for me.

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I just read this and I think you did a great job.

However I might have missed it but... did you mention how range would affect a bladestorm build?

If I understand correctly from wiki.. a higher range will affect how far away you can target the enemy for bladestorm, and also affect the number of enemies targeted for bladestorm.

I'm currently on rising storm build with a Maxed range and high power strength.

Your tests on how duration affected the melee multiplier opened up new grounds for me.

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@Sci_Ant, not entirely related, but if you want someone to help you test anything, I'm down to do that.

 

I've been doing some work on party-focused builds using damage buff augments and it reminded me of your thorough work with Chroma and (as of the 13th) Ash.

 

Hey there and thanks for the offer! Sorry for the late reply but I did check you thread, I just need to give it more time to understand it fully! Will get back to you on this.

 

I now have updated the results. I was once again motivated enough to exceed 1000+ in combos and have now ended up with 1111 hits using the same build in the same situation. This time though, instead of Cameria, Jupiter, I used Kelashin, Neptune. 

I managed to land many more hits even after life support ran out.

nQLr7VR.jpg

 

Same build:

SNbY4u9.jpg

I have now taken past failures as gathered information and have come down to the following:

 

1. I recommend (if you are doing Infested missions or any at all really) that you pick a node that has a higher spawn rate scattered more across the map

2. Your biggest threat while attempting for a high combo in these specific missions is transitioning from one room to the next in order to be near a Life Support capsule

 

 

What I recommend:

 

1. Frequently dividing your attention between the life support percentage and your combo counter. You will want to transition rooms early, I say about before 40% if there are no other capsules left in your current vicinity

 

2. Transition slowly. This is why I say 40%. There is a high chance that you will end up with a capsule/series of capsules located incredibly far from your current physical area. In order to get enemies to begin spawning from the direction you are heading to and slowly deteriorate the spawns where you're headed from, you must transition rooms slowly while still meleeing enemies that are chasing you down (this is the best way to do it as you do not need to make repeated turnarounds if no enemies are spawning from your destination's vicinity which is why I recommend Infested missions or if you are partnered with a Disarm Loki with the soul intention of just disarming).

 

Hey man thanks a lot for this, I will update the OP with the new images and link to this post of yours.

 

In my opnion, having large combo does not compensate the damage you lsot compared to having max damage and efficiency.

 

2000 damage x 3.5 is only 7.5k

 

even with max duration mod, it can only strike 17 targets. Even if it is the same target it still count as 1 hit.

 

If you equip with normal blind rage and transient intesify and energy effciency ( fleetign and streamline)

 

you can have 1.84 x 2000 x 2 ( now it only take 55 aman to cast it)

 

but having large combo does giving a satisfying feel

 

Yes I find that in my experience, just going for the higher damage from mods helps a lot more than the Rising Storm augment. Rising Storm is much more useful on a high duration Smoke Screen and Melee build than on a BS build.

 

I just read this and I think you did a great job.

However I might have missed it but... did you mention how range would affect a bladestorm build?

If I understand correctly from wiki.. a higher range will affect how far away you can target the enemy for bladestorm, and also affect the number of enemies targeted for bladestorm.

I'm currently on rising storm build with a Maxed range and high power strength.

Your tests on how duration affected the melee multiplier opened up new grounds for me.

 

Thanks for the appreciation! :)

 

Range on Baldestorm matters only when you want to kill using Bladestorm mainly. It won't matter at all for a Rising Storm high duration with smoke screen build since you just need to hit 1 enemy to start the Rising Storm counter, and then melee only from there.

 

I find that I'd rather use my 230 % Power Strength build rather than a BS build with Rising Storm if all I want to do is BS. But with melee I'd rather go for higher duration with Rising Storm and no point of range and power strength then, just keep it at base 100 % for strength or negative for range.

 

No point of using a max range on BS build either since with just a max Stretch you will have almost 40 metres range on the sphere of Bladestorm targeting and around 70 metres on casting. If you have more range you can reach more enemies but they wont be targeted if there are just 18 enemies in a closer area, and at higher levels where they just swarm you, there is absolutely no use, since it won't target anyone beyond 10 metres since there will be like 20 enemies in that range. 

 

you did a great job thx

 

Thanks for the appreciation! :)

Edited by Sci_Ant
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No point of using a max range on BS build either since with just a max Stretch you will have almost 40 metres range on the sphere of Bladestorm targeting and around 70 metres on casting. If you have more range you can reach more enemies but they wont be targeted if there are just 18 enemies in a closer area, and at higher levels where they just swarm you, there is absolutely no use, since it won't target anyone beyond 10 metres since there will be like 20 enemies in that range. 

Entirely true for solo, and most likely at end game.

 

Have been playing with normal Ash, for the last few days, no augment mod.

Ash can be a fascinating with max range, at mid range gameplay (lvl35-50 enemies).

Teleport to assist other members and BS to clear large numbers of enemies (or revive members) concentrated on farther than ideal locations.

 

But thats a completely unrelated to Rising Storm subject.

 

On topic:

Now I need to get that Rising Storm mod and learn to melee effectively.

Thnx for the finds and sharing.

Edited by Souldend78
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Entirely true for solo, and most likely at end game.

 

Have been playing with normal Ash, for the last few days, no augment mod.

Ash can be a fascinating with max range, at mid range gameplay.

Teleport to assist other members and BS to clear large numbers of enemies (or revive members) concentrated on farther than ideal locations.

 

But thats a completely unrelated to Rising Storm subject.

 

On topic:

Now I need to get that Rising Storm mod and learn to melee effectively.

Thnx for the finds and sharing.

 

Glad I could help! :)

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On an extremely tangential note (with the relation being math alone), could anyone help me either A) fit (ax^b) to a curve or B) convert a formula in the form (cx^2 + dx + e) to the form in A)? I've been trying to determine how endless missions scale their enemy levels, and while I've got Defense data out to wave 47, I can't seem to get any truly workable numbers via targeted guess-and-check.

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On an extremely tangential note (with the relation being math alone), could anyone help me either A) fit (ax^b) to a curve or B) convert a formula in the form (cx^2 + dx + e) to the form in A)? I've been trying to determine how endless missions scale their enemy levels, and while I've got Defense data out to wave 47, I can't seem to get any truly workable numbers via targeted guess-and-check.

 

Complex math is not really my thing but would the graphs on this page help? http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Enemy_Level_Scaling

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I don't think hes asking for stats@levelx, but rather level@timex in a survival, level@wavex in a defense, etc. Which I don't know.

 

Nono, I've got those stats, at least for Defense. My extremely disorganized notes. I was just asking, to rephrase my original question, if anyone knew how to fit a Warframe-typical curve to this data, as in an exponent and a coefficient.

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Nono, I've got those stats, at least for Defense. My extremely disorganized notes. I was just asking, to rephrase my original question, if anyone knew how to fit a Warframe-typical curve to this data, as in an exponent and a coefficient.

 

I'm afraid I can't help. Maybe if you post this in it's own thread and clearly state your data and questions there, someone might have the answers. 

 

I'd suggest posting in either 'Players helping players' or 'General Discussion'. Good luck!

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