#deathtothelotus

[Gr33d1]

The summit awaits.

[Altey]

 

 

Stalker lives fine without Lotus, he's like John Rambo, why can't we? :]

Exaclty, i don't need her either.

[Evanescent]

Again, you can speculate as much as you want, but your speculations are not cannon.

 

1) not a single race can be wholly good or evil, it's like killing all Caucasian people just because Hitler was Caucasian (yea, you apologists started Nazi comparison), therefore "tyrannical" is a lame justification;

2) to save her "children", luckily, tenno received that role (though no information if they knew what would happen);

3) "good" is a relative and obscure term, if Grineer rule the systems, they would consider it "good", I think you got the point;

4) where does it say we all received same trauma? ordis received trauma damaging his Old War memories too? :]

5) indirectly they were freed, though you might not like it :]

6) yea, the first line you encounter in game "I am Lotus" is a lie.

 

Stalker lives fine without Lotus, he's like John Rambo, why can't we? :]

1) A race that sends children into the void as experiments, creates and enslaves clones, treats them like dirt and makes bio weapons is good eh?

2)She didn't just come over to save US, she did so to thwart their plans. No matter how you look at it she did it for our sake. I don't see the Lotus going around enslaving and making clones, do you? You seem to have a problem with her breaking off with the malevolent side to benefit the system. 

3)Yeah, saving races from dying out to an invading race and granting freedom is 'bad'. I get it. If you're going to be so meticulous, how is that not 'morally and ethically' the better choice?

4)From the intro you will find in the 'lore' page in the warframe site. And if you want to say it's outdated then fine. Show me where it says the Potus wiped our memories.

5)A race that was severely undermined and mistreated decided to rise in rebellion against their masters, and that is the Lotus' fault? If you want to follow the butterfly effect theory then I could say the Orokin were responsible as THEY MADE THE GRINEER, THEY ENSLAVED THE GRINEER, AND THEY MADE THE SENTIENTS. (see Simaris lore)

6)???????

Dafuq?

How is that a lie??

[Tengu147]

Again, you can speculate as much as you want, but your speculations are not cannon.

 

1) not a single race can be wholly good or evil, it's like killing all Caucasian people just because Hitler was Caucasian (yea, you apologists started Nazi comparison), therefore "tyrannical" is a lame justification;

2) to save her "children", luckily, tenno received that role (though no information if they knew what would happen);

3) "good" is a relative and obscure term, if Grineer rule the systems, they would consider it "good", I think you got the point;

4) where does it say we all received same trauma? ordis received trauma damaging his Old War memories too? :]

5) indirectly they were freed, though you might not like it :]

6) yea, the first line you encounter in game "I am Lotus" is a lie.

 

Stalker lives fine without Lotus, he's like John Rambo, why can't we? :]

 

There's no speculation, you just can't accept that she did what she did out of love.

 

1) Sure, but the Grineer would kill you and enslave anyone who is not Grineer if we let them. It will be ignorant of you to not see slavery as a bad thing.

3) Just because they would consider it good, it should happen? You brought up Hitler... So if Hitler was alive today and made all the Jews and everyone else he did not consider part of the Aryan race, you'll be okay with it because he considers it good? I smell troll logic...

4) "I see the cryosleep has taken your memory..." is said by the Lotus during the tutorial. Why are you bringing up Ordis? He's not a Tenno, and his memories where damaged by the Grineer.

5) So why did you say she did it then?

6) The Lotus specifically says she killed Natah and became the Lotus. It's not a lie. It's an ommision of her past, which was not relevant information during that time. If you changed your name today, that is who you are, regardless of what your parents named you.

 

The Stalker is not a Tenno. This is confirmed.

 

Stop ignoring facts to suit your opinion.

 

[Altey]

 A race that sends children into the void as experiments, creates and enslaves clones, treats them like dirt and makes bio weapons is good eh?

 

Orokin were almost extinct because of sentient.We were their last weapon.

[Morec0]

Orokin were almost extinct because of sentient.We were their last weapon.

 

And that justifies using children as a weapon?

 

CHILDREN???

Edited August 1, 2015 by Morec0

[Evanescent]

And that justifies using children as a weapon?

 

CHILDREN???

I ask the same thing. If you stoop to the same depths as your enemy you have become the menace you fight.

[Tengu147]

Orokin were almost extinct because of sentient.We were their last weapon.

 

Right, because certainly asked to be void-bearing child soldiers. We, as children, asked to be forever scarred and forced to fight a war we didn't even start

Edited August 1, 2015 by Tengu147

[Buzkyl]

Again, you can speculate as much as you want, but your speculations are not cannon.

 

1) not a single race can be wholly good or evil, it's like killing all Caucasian people just because Hitler was Caucasian (yea, you apologists started Nazi comparison), therefore "tyrannical" is a lame justification;

2) to save her "children", luckily, tenno received that role (though no information if they knew what would happen);

3) "good" is a relative and obscure term, if Grineer rule the systems, they would consider it "good", I think you got the point;

4) where does it say we all received same trauma? ordis received trauma damaging his Old War memories too? :]

5) indirectly they were freed, though you might not like it :]

6) yea, the first line you encounter in game "I am Lotus" is a lie.

 

Stalker lives fine without Lotus, he's like John Rambo, why can't we? :]

 

And at this point, half of your points are speculation as well.

 

 

 

1.Irrelevant comparison, at this point in the game, the knowledge we have point to Orokin as a developer, yet malicious society. They experimented on children to create the Tenno, They create a Virus to kill the sentient (Infestation) which is directly proved by Lephantis. Thier methods brought them result, but it has yet to be proven that they are morally justified.

 

2.Children refers to the Lotus being our mother figure, which we are beaten over the head with by the Devs. The Lotus metaphorically adopted us as her family regardless of circumstances leading to that point, she is the one who made modern day Tenno, The Tenno.

 

3. Grineer do rule the system current system nearly just as strongly as the Orokin once did. Just because you are the authority figure that doesn't mean you decide what is morally "good" nor "bad".

 

4.The burden of proof falls to you who you made the claim, if you can prove it, show us by all means. However from what was said in the begiining it was the cryosleep we were placed in that took our memories. That is the fact.

 

5. There are many gaps to what the grineer were during the orokin era and thier current rise to power. They started out as workers, some bred for military and now suddenly they are a tyrincal race? Blaming anyone at this point is speculation. We can blame the Lotus as she likely influenced the Tenno (likely being the key word here).

 

6. "I am the Lotus, your friend and Guide." That is not a lie as she hasn't proven otherwise to this point.

 

 

We have no idea what the stalker is.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Buzkyl

[Altey]

I'll still rather join teshin than stay with natah.

[Gale47]

I still like the Lotus, even more so now that I know who she is.

[Buzkyl]

And that justifies using children as a weapon?

 

CHILDREN???

 

While i do agree that is is morally questioning, let's not act like it was thier first option.

 

1.Somewhere during the timeline  the grineer were militarized so they definitely fought the sentients and likely failed.

 

2.The orokin then created a virus that twist life into horrible monstrosities- The Infestation. They create the massive behemoth called lephantis to fight for them, and it likely failed.

 

They tried bilogical warframe with the virus, their military failed, so it's only logical they were desperate and started experimenting with thier own to create super soliders. Is it morally wrong? Yes. But it's either that or extinction.

[SeaUrchins]

I still like the Lotus, even more so now that I know who she is.

 

It's not about Natah, it's about the ability to choose the path your character takes. You stay with that abomination, fine with me, it's your right, but don't you think players, who don't share your views should be able to choose their tenno destiny? How are you different from the Orokin if you don't want people to have choice? :]

[Altey]

It's not about Natah, it's about the ability to choose the path your character takes. You stay with that abomination, fine with me, it's your right, but don't you think players, who don't share your views should be able to choose their tenno destiny? How are you different from the Orokin if you don't want people to have choice? :]

Exactly this.

[Morec0]

While i do agree that is is morally questioning, let's not act like it was thier first option.

 

1.Somewhere during the timeline  the grineer were militarized so they definitely fought the sentients and likely failed.

 

2.The orokin then created a virus that twist life into horrible monstrosities- The Infestation. They create the massive behemoth called lephantis to fight for them, and it likely failed.

 

They tried bilogical warframe with the virus, their military failed, so it's only logical they were desperate and started experimenting with thier own to create super soliders. Is it morally wrong? Yes. But it's either that or extinction.

 

It's not that they experimented with their own. It's that they did it with children, little people who can't possibly comprehend - and this is a mental truth mind you - the complexities of what would be asked of them. What they would be put through and what would happen to them - if even the Orokin knew, which makes the matter all the more twisted.

 

Hell, depending on how the timeline stacks up the initial testing might not even have been done when the Sentients were a thing - if the Void era did come long before the Orokin Era as we understand it than they might have just done it "for science!"

[Tengu147]

I'll still rather join teshin than stay with natah.

That's not her name...

[Altey]

That's not her name...

That IS her name

[Altey]

It's not that they experimented with their own. It's that they did it with children, little people who can't possibly comprehend - and this is a mental truth mind you - the complexities of what would be asked of them. What they would be put through and what would happen to them - if even the Orokin knew, which makes the matter all the more twisted.

 

Hell, depending on how the timeline stacks up the initial testing might not even have been done when the Sentients were a thing - if the Void era did come long before the Orokin Era as we understand it than they might have just done it "for science!"

Humans aren't much better :P

[Tengu147]

That IS her name

No it's not. Natah is dead

[Morec0]

Exactly this.

 

It's not about Natah, it's about the ability to choose the path your character takes. You stay with that abomination, fine with me, it's your right, but don't you think players, who don't share your views should be able to choose their tenno destiny? How are you different from the Orokin if you don't want people to have choice? :]

 

But this would come down to the narrative story and how DE wants to characterize the Tenno. Sure the players have some say over what their character can do, but certain things might be out of character for how DE wants to portray it's protagonists - i.e. how in WoW you'd never be able to join the Scourge or the Legion, or in the Witcher games you can't really say "F*** Witchering! I'm gonna become a giggallo!"

[Evanescent]

It's not about Natah, it's about the ability to choose the path your character takes. You stay with that abomination, fine with me, it's your right, but don't you think players, who don't share your views should be able to choose their tenno destiny? How are you different from the Orokin if you don't want people to have choice? :]

'Cause it doesn't go with the Lore?

 

According to the lore the Tenno are Loyal to the Lotus.

[Morec0]

That IS her name

 

You didn't quite grasp the whole "I left that name and life behind" aspect of the quest, did you?

[Buzkyl]

It's not that they experimented with their own. It's that they did it with children, little people who can't possibly comprehend - and this is a mental truth mind you - the complexities of what would be asked of them. What they would be put through and what would happen to them - if even the Orokin knew, which makes the matter all the more twisted.

 

Hell, depending on how the timeline stacks up the initial testing might not even have been done when the Sentients were a thing - if the Void era did come long before the Orokin Era as we understand it than they might have just done it "for science!"

 

It's not that they experimented with their own. It's that they did it with children, little people who can't possibly comprehend - and this is a mental truth mind you - the complexities of what would be asked of them. What they would be put through and what would happen to them - if even the Orokin knew, which makes the matter all the more twisted.

 

Hell, depending on how the timeline stacks up the initial testing might not even have been done when the Sentients were a thing - if the Void era did come long before the Orokin Era as we understand it than they might have just done it "for science!"

 

But aren't you more curious as to why children were used in the first place? From a development point of view they should not have survived as they're less mature than an adult, but yet they did. I'm damn certain they sent in grown adult into the void and it's likely they never retrun or simply died, however, children returned and were alive.

 

If i was a scientist, i would never send in children first to a new habitat, as they're still growing and wouldn't be able to handle it well

 

Or maybe thats why they sent children, because they're not fully devloped

[Tengu147]

Humans aren't much better :P

And that makes it right?

[Morec0]

But aren't you more curious as to why children were used in the first place? From a development point of view they should not have survived as they're less mature than an adult, but yet they did. I'm damn certain they sent in grown adult into the void and it's likely they never retrun or simply died, however, children returned and were alive.

 

If i was a scientist, i would never send in children first to a new habitat, as they're still growing and wouldn't be able to handle it well

 

Or maybe thats why they sent children, because they're not fully devloped

 

That's what I see it as: children are still developing, still growing. If they were able to survive the Orokin (or whoever) could have studied the Void's effects through them throughout the course of their life, seeing what it did to them as they matured. It's brilliant, but terrible.