The Problem With Exclusives...

[jsnforce]

This is not another complaint thread about Excal Prime or it's prettier Chinese cousin. Though I disagree with the thinking that went into making them founders exclusives, it's something I've come to a reluctant acceptance of.

 

However, there is a real issue about limited, timed, or otherwise exclusive items that can be found (or rather, not found) in Warframe. The concept divides the community: Some demanding that items they earned or purchased be a one-time offer, never reoccurring. Others desire those items be available much more often. I've seen rage over event mods being available again. Read requests for anniversary items to be one-time, or Baro to never sell the same item twice, and certain skins for weapons and frames to be taken off the market. Currently DE is in the process of culling prime items from the void: a move being applauded -by those who already possess those items, of course.

 

I disagree with this line of thinking, and frankly feel it is very petty.

 

Warframe is primarily a cooperative game: You do not compete against each other except in a very controlled, separate game mode. For this reason, it is unreasonable to demand a weapon or mod be restricted, as you are intentionally holding other players, and your teammates, back. What good does it do you for your squad to be underpowered? How does this benefit anyone? 

 

The sentiment that a player's efforts are wasted in the initial release of the item is also flawed because, like most everything else in Warframe, Platinum can be used to get it immediately and effortlessly. You can choose to grind for Ash Prime, or you can lay down some currency to buy it from the market or other players. Does one player's decision to purchase the item diminish your efforts to earn it? Consider that the platinum used is ACTUALLY SUPPORTING DEVELOPMENT. Furthermore, when an item in reintroduced, it's typically done in a similar fashion to how it was initially released -meaning that it will be attached to a difficult alert, or with a tiny drop rate.

 

(Some might desire it because they want to sell the rare items on the market for exorbitant amounts. I will not even acknowledge such a position.)

 

Everything else is purely cosmetic, which begs the question: With literally nothing to gain, why does this demand exist? Why is DE facilitating it? How much development time is wasted creating an item that is only seen for a short time, then never again?

 

 

[Soju.]

Everything else is purely cosmetic, which begs the question: With literally nothing to gain, why does this demand exist? Why is DE facilitating it? How much development time is wasted creating an item that is only seen for a short time, then never again?

 

One side people who already has the exclusive items: "No we don't want those people to have it, we came first!"

People who doesn't: "I want it, they are selfish scrubs"

or this group: "I don't care" - I'm in this group. I feel petty for both of the groups above fighting over something out of jealousy - "they have what we don't have, so we want it".

 

By making it exclusive, more people will pay because they think it's their only chance to ever get their hands on it. And people love exclusive stuff. Who doesn't want to have something that is rare and expensive and only a good few have it, right?

 

So, by doing this DE collects in a rapid, bulk amount of $, but after it's over then no more $. <- Which I'm sure the money put on making this exclusive content is already paid off with lots of profits.

 

By making it non-exclusive, DE can collect $ over time, but not as much people will buy it because they got no to little motives to if it keeps coming back and they could just farm for it instead, since I'm pretty damn sure Warframe is all about farming.

 

In the end, people who paid for Founders Exclusive get what they get with real $, and I guess that's inevitable in everything now (we all need $, for everything, so people who are willing to pay $ will get a better treatment, you always treat people who helped you better than people who don't help you, but are still a friend to you is what I'm saying here), people with cash always get an advantage (no I'm not saying this game is Pay-To-Win), whether it's getting something in a short cut, or getting yourself an advantage in a battle (like most ftp games out there), or whatever. That's just something people who plays video games and get frustrated over it need to realize. But I guess even if they do, they'll still *@##&#036; about it, 'cus humans.

Edited July 25, 2015 by AlphaWolf003

[Sieg]

Your post boils down to "why should event items be exclusive to those who did the events. I should be able to have them whenever I want as well"

 

The issue with this is the devaluation of events and their rewards.

 

Events are something the developers put major effort and time into. During events, players use all their knowledge of Warframe and the weapons they've grinded up to 5+ forma with rare 10 max mods to gain something during this event. The rewards are often great with exclusive (or at least used to be exclusive) event weapons that many times in history were completely overpowered (strun wraith, brakk), and coveted gold trophies for clans to fight over.

Events either take a lot of time to do or require so much meta knowledge that it is insane how far players can push the limits of what is and what isn't possible for events. We're talking 10 hour survivals, impossibly large Fomorian scores, level 200+ enemies, games crashing because of how much oxygen is on the ground, etc.

Events are truly the greatest content to be found in Warframe, and their rewards mirror that with new mods, weapons, cosmetics, etc. You've braved DE's challenge that they worked hard on to give to you and those weapons you got from the event are proof of it. 

 

And you want them to just give them away?

 

Sorry if you don't have my sympathy for not showing up to an event and demanding the rewards anyway when you realize months later that everyone is running around with guns you don't have.

[taiiat]

i have... let's call it everything. close enough.

i want all Players to have more content. any Event Exclusive Weapon or Mod, yes, by all means, other Players should have them too. because it's more Content.

infact, special Weapons shouldn't just be direct stat upgrades. they should be modified versions of a Weapon, more of this for less of this.

i am thrilled that Strun Wraith was reintroduced to Players. for the entirety of Damage 2.0, Strun Wraith has been a really enjoyable Shotgun to use. more Players having access to it, by all means. yes, please.

the more styles and Playstyles that you have, the more Content that you have.

same is applicable for Mods, as well. more choices available, means potentially wider Horizontal Progression, making for more Content.

ofcourse, i'm in assumption that such items would likely return in another Event, or whatnot. Mods being implemented into the game makes sense, but i almost expect say, an Event related Weapon to be available in another Event.

(*cough* for sale in a shop is fine, but it just seems odd when those sorts of items can be used for Content in more Events)

- - - - -

(i rather doubt that the people that have certain Prime things are cheering for the removal of them from the game - those Players would be extremely petty and childish. i have those things and want the exact opposite, Players should have access to the items, as it's Content).

- - - - -

on a different side of the room, Prime Access having some special snowflake Cosmetics and Founders having special Snowflake Equipment is fine to me. with the first, there is an infinite number of Cosmetics you can make. with the second, the investment into Warframe is critically important to Warframe's existence today.

(i'll not explain the fairest solution to that current 'hot topic', that's for another Thread).

i understand that some things exist to represent certain happenings or represent investment of some sort, Et Cetera. that's great. i'd want to take the opportunity to make more Playstyles with such representative things however.

if having more 'Exclusives' than someone else was critically important to me and all i wanted was to have more stuff than someone else, hang on a second, why am i playing Video Games again?

because that's not what Video Games are about. if you're only concerned about having more special snowflake items than someone else so you can brag about it, as far as i'm concerned, you're in a lower bracket category of life.

Edited July 25, 2015 by taiiat

[Mak_Gohae]

I remember when i was playing WoW vanilla and Blizz decided to change the mounts and said that at a certain date they will be gone.

That was the first and last time they said anything about those mounts.

DE, for some reason cannot do this.

 

If China wants an exclusive prime let them have it.

They are making this an issue because once people see that with enough complain you bend, they will continue to do this over and over.

[Vaxillian]

Found this video from a thread saying the exact oppisite so I'll just leave it here...

 

Edited July 25, 2015 by Vaxillian

[Soju.]

I remember when i was playing WoW vanilla and Blizz decided to change the mounts and said that at a certain date they will be gone.

That was the first and last time they said anything about those mounts.

DE, for some reason cannot do this.

 

If China wants an exclusive prime let them have it.

They are making this an issue because once people see that with enough complain you bend, they will continue to do this over and over.

Or... it was actually already planned before, in a contract between them and Changyou. This could swing both ways you know. And you are just taking one or few things that they do for the players and mistake them for being 'weak' and 'soft', no, players have requested ALOT of things but few were fully answered, that is because they can't please everyone.

 

This is something I noticed in a lot of people - they make assumptions based solely on certain events, without the need to look back for evidences.

Edited July 25, 2015 by AlphaWolf003

[jsnforce]

I'm not demanding that things be made available to everyone, all the time, and by whatever means I want. I'm simply appalled at the people who want the exact opposite. The "I have it and don't want you to have it" attitude is indeed very childish and petty.

 

To address Politz's: At no point was I asking that they "give them away". In fact, I specifically mentioned that whe DE does reintroduce something, it's in a similar event. That's absolutely fair. And do not pretend that these events are for some silly Warframe elite. I've been through one where the entire tactic was to spam energy restores and snow globe. Others have you playing the same mission X amount of times, or running a typical mission with a tweaked enemy spawn. You also seem to forget that new tech developed for an event is actually part of a mission type improvement, and is applied across the system.  Events are merely introductions to those updates.

[(PSN)ZammnZaddy]

Well Excal Umbra is a founder exclusive in China and a timed exclusive  but it will be brought over here.

Edited July 26, 2015 by (PS4)GHOSTBEAST1000

[KiteoHatto]

Everything else is purely cosmetic, which begs the question: With literally nothing to gain, why does this demand exist? Why is DE facilitating it? How much development time is wasted creating an item that is only seen for a short time, then never again?

In a pve-oriented  game that doesn't allow you to show-off any real skills the only thing that's available is looking better/cooler than someone else, this "better look" is tied directly with limited availability content.

 

It's just "look at me, i have something you don't and you can't get it anymore".

 

Same reason why people collect classic cars and then show them off at car shows/gatherings. Same idea here.

Instead of shows we have relays and missions, this makes people salty and they try to grasping at straws for any reasonable justification that "they should have them too!".

 

Exclusives work for DE because they make sales. This is true for every other thing that's "exclusive" in this world.

If you don't have an exclusive then people pick another product over yours because it has an exclusive.

Edited July 26, 2015 by kiteohatto

[AprilFools]

At no point was I asking that they "give them away". In fact, I specifically mentioned that whe DE does reintroduce something, it's in a similar event. That's absolutely fair.

 

I agree with that, but in the case of the machete wraith, it was available for instant purchase as opposed to running 25 invasions. That's not equal, which is why it's sort of a slap in the face to those who did do the invasions. Same with the prova vandal. It required many hive missions, each getting more difficult until you reached the number of points needed to be rewarded it, but now it can be insta-purchased.

 

The strun wraith was a good re-introduction, since the original reward was for surviving twenty minutes on the (new at the time) survival gamemode, and its second appearance was from a tactical alert.

[theammostore]

Having something like an event weapon is sort of a mark of veterancy. You did this major challenge, you were here to talk about this major happening, and you beat it. You knew what to do and how to do it and you did it. Here is your shiny new toy. If you weren't there to get it or you weren't skilled enough or what have you, then I'm sorry but you missed out. Now, if rewards were given out on a like-to-like basis, i.e. Event weapon strun wraith comes out again in another event, then that would be totally fine to an extent. The issue comes up however when you dont follow that like to like system. If you make people bust their &amp;#&#33; doing over one hundred missions to get a sword, and then later on sell that sword in a marketplace, it devalues it for just about everybody and makes it less a show of skill and power, and more a show of who had more points to spend. Same goes for the opposite, if you sell a weapon in a marketplace, and then make it available in a big old mission system as a reward, then people are going to be upset.

[macroeconomics]

One problem may be that people are thinking that when they put in effort to obtain an item and subsequently it's released for sale, it somehow cheapens the item. But it's perfectly normal. Almost everything in this game is not-exclusive, especially event items. They will come back.

 

If it comes back in another event wouldn't you be more pissed and feel they released an event that has a worthless reward (for you) instead of a new weapon?

 

In terms of fairness, when we get the event weapons as a reward, iirc it's usually with it's own slot and potato. As well as the period of utility. Getting it earlier, and with material bonuses via event vs buying vanilla version months or years later.

 

DE's model is great because almost every non-cosmetic item is available for newer players, albeit cyclically. From a market development perspective that's integral to growing the player base. If you just want to show off your exclusive bling there's cosmetics for that from PA etc, sigils and what not.

 

Imho, everything can and should be recycled periodically for players to feel like they can get the old rare stuff one day (with only three exceptions from the founder's pack) to create an environment where players would continually play the game or at least keep checking in.

[Yezzik]

All weapon variants should be turned into skins, and all lost forma and potatoes should be refunded.

Then it's just a matter of reintroducing the Snipetron in some capacity, perhaps as Syndicate weapon.

Problem solved.

 

Edit: And the Boar and maybe make the Dakra Prime a skin for the Skana.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Yezzik

[KiteoHatto]

All weapon variants should be turned into skins, and all lost forma and potatoes should be refunded.

Then it's just a matter of reintroducing the Snipetron in some capacity, perhaps as Syndicate weapon.

Problem solved.

 

Edit: And the Boar and maybe make the Dakra Prime a skin for the Skana.

What about mastery...? If you halve all the stuff that we have right now, we'll go back to mastery 8. It's taken us 2 years to get here so far, to get to 30 will take a really, really long time. All because some people wanted to have something that others do ? lol

Edited July 26, 2015 by kiteohatto

[Yezzik]

What about mastery...? If you halve all the stuff that we have right now, we'll go back to mastery 8. It's taken us 2 years to get here so far, to get to 30 will take a really, really long time. All because some people wanted to have something that others do ? lol

 

Then up the amount that things give.

[KiteoHatto]

Then up the amount that things give.

So the max level of everything will be 60..?

 

Some stuff is already boring to level if it doesn't suit your style, 60 is just plain torture.

 

More variety capped at 30 > half the variety capped at 60.

Edited July 26, 2015 by kiteohatto

[Yezzik]

So the max level of everything will be 60..?

 

No. The Mastery per rank.

Currently weapons give 100 per rank and everything else gives 200.

[KiteoHatto]

No. The Mastery per rank.

Currently weapons give 100 per rank and everything else gives 200.

In that case it's not too bad then. As for skins, i'd like DE to implement a way to unlock them by doing a bunch of achievements or tasks.

[Yezzik]

In that case it's not too bad then. As for skins, i'd like DE to implement a way to unlock them by doing a bunch of achievements or tasks.

 

Going along with what I suggested, something like "complete X T1 Exterminate missions" or "complete X T2 Defense missions after reaching the 20 wave reward" to unlock the prime skin for an item would work. They'd be your proper Bragging Rights Reward, without anyone needing to concern themselves with power creep--at least from those.

[aoguro]

i dont like timelimited offers

 

im not with that all if the new excal umbra is here only for a month, then we have brandnew things which ...

 

ah, i dont mind, i really dont wanna go in all this on and on

 

sorry to say but im tired of the gamingindustry and their tries to make money ...

 

warframe havent have it until now and i hope there will not come a change

 

my main focus is and will ever be real life, i have no time for "changes" on my style how i spend money into my mostloved game

 

if there comes a big change into timelimited "toys" before real new content comes like a few new planets and "enemies/and or races" i will still use my responsability for and to myself

 

i mean it looks like the game becomes faster, nearly nobody can see how you look like really in the details =))))))))))

Edited July 26, 2015 by 3QUINOX

[KiteoHatto]

Going along with what I suggested, something like "complete X T1 Exterminate missions" or "complete X T2 Defense missions after reaching the 20 wave reward" to unlock the prime skin for an item would work. They'd be your proper Bragging Rights Reward, without anyone needing to concern themselves with power creep--at least from those.

Yeah that's pretty cool, but how would DE keep the players playing if they take out the RNG ?

[CruelCrow]

Reintroduce events as quests. For competitive events(or rather the political style event where you vote for a side by playing), you can choose either side, regardless of the original winner. Then, in the next event that rewards the opposite weapon (think of Machete Wraith and Prova Vandal) the opposite weapon will be given, based on the players original choice. Not really sure how I want timed invasions or events would work because people could abuse it by going back on forth for rewards and whatnot. They could just have to do a set amount of missions without rewards to encourage and reward players for doing it the first time?

They could be opened as these quests after 60-90 days, that seems like a fair amount of time.

[HunterHog]

i dont like timelimited offers

 

im not with that all if the new excal umbra is here only for a month, then we have brandnew things which ...

 

ah, i dont mind, i really dont wanna go in all this on and on

 

sorry to say but im tired of the gamingindustry and their tries to make money ...

 

warframe havent have it until now and i hope there will not come a change

 

my main focus is and will ever be real life, i have no time for "changes" on my style how i spend money into my mostloved game

 

if there comes a big change into timelimited "toys" before real new content comes like a few new planets and "enemies/and or races" i will still use my responsability for and to myself

 

i mean it looks like the game becomes faster, nearly nobody can see how you look like really in the details =))))))))))

 

I didn't want to be rude. I really didn't. But then this.

 

'I'm tired of the gaming industry and their tries to make money'

 

Really? You're tired of people trying to make a living out of serving you, the customer? They could've made this game paid, hell, even subscription-based. But no, it's free and everything is obtainable for free.

[PookieNumnums]

Most of anti exclusive sentiments are about rereleasing event weapons through baro

Or 're releasing founders gear.

A) they said baron would bring new stuff. And it is no fun for peeps who earned them because no reason for another

B) people aren't doing 100 runs to earn machete

C) the founders gear is separated from global warframe And different

So only issue I see is leaving earners in the cold and easier ways to obtain for newer peeps or those that missed.

I'd see less complaints if they just had the event repeat.

Edited July 26, 2015 by PookieNumnums