Excalibur skill 1 gives far too much for 25 energy

[Zakalwe]

Is a bit of a win button.

Why would I ulti for 100 when I can take out more for 25 and spam it?

Perhaps it should be toned down a little...

Edited January 18, 2013 by Zakalwe

[Kilikaji]

Yeah, its especially strong compared to other warframes starting skill. I wouldnt really want to change the skill, it feels great, but i think itd make more sense if it cost 50(maybe 75) energy. Then make radial blind cost 25.

[AngelGuardcc]

loki decoy = lure whole map to a explosive barrel

shoot barrel = everyone dies

best 25 energy ever

[Zakalwe]

Slash =

Huge movement boost. At full power you can move faster for longer than any class.

You can clear entire rooms of enemies in seconds and not even use half your pool.

You can escape death without care.

Melee anything because it doesn't matter if you get in trouble because of the last point.

Charge through laser doors.

More effective than the frame's ulti.

It's my favourite skill, and my least. Makes the game far too easy as it offers a ridiculous amount for just a fraction of your energy reserve.

[MJ12]

Slash =

Huge movement boost. At full power you can move faster for longer than any class.

You can clear entire rooms of enemies in seconds and not even use half your pool.

You can escape death without care.

Melee anything because it doesn't matter if you get in trouble because of the last point.

Charge through laser doors.

More effective than the frame's ulti.

It's my favourite skill, and my least. Makes the game far too easy as it offers a ridiculous amount for just a fraction of your energy reserve.

Slash does 200 damage in a straight line. It's great against mooks, but Javelin does 1000 damage. It does this in a 360 degree circle with quite a bit of range.

More importantly, here's something to remember. The opportunity cost of using powers is that you use energy and you also can't use your weapons. In general, high-level weapons with good mods right now are ridiculously powerful. A lot of the weaker powers (like Ember and Ash) are literally not worth the time it takes to cast them.

Slash Dash and Rhino Charge are actually at somewhere where powers should be. Maybe they need slight decreases in area of effect, maybe not, but they're actually worth using compared to guns.

[Ronyn]

Slash does 200 damage in a straight line. It's great against mooks, but Javelin does 1000 damage. It does this in a 360 degree circle with quite a bit of range.

More importantly, here's something to remember. The opportunity cost of using powers is that you use energy and you also can't use your weapons. In general, high-level weapons with good mods right now are ridiculously powerful. A lot of the weaker powers (like Ember and Ash) are literally not worth the time it takes to cast them.

Slash Dash and Rhino Charge are actually at somewhere where powers should be. Maybe they need slight decreases in area of effect, maybe not, but they're actually worth using compared to guns.

Exactly!

Because so many other powers feel useless the ones that actually do something seem overpowered in comparison.

I'm currently leveling my Ash frame.

Unless the shuriken can do more than what my gun can do Im just not going to use it.

Not to say I am entirely against energy cost modification in general but folks definitely need to remember that powers are actually supposed to be used.

[cypherhalo]

Eh, I have no complaints about slash. Like it as it is.

[DuaI1ty]

Adding cooldowns would help alleviate this problem. I too feel that it does do a bit too much (even though I'm loving it).

[Caernarvon]

Maybe make it a bit more expensive. 50 en a use?

[TheGrayFox]

The game is fine where it is slash dash is a get out of a bind kind of deal and you cant really spam it unless your finding constant energy and have a really large energy bar. Each class has its specialties. I say deal with it B)

[Ronyn]

Adding cooldowns would help alleviate this problem. I too feel that it does do a bit too much (even though I'm loving it).

No, not inherently.

If the cooldown is too low people will come and say the same things.

"cooldowns too low for what it does."

[Zakalwe]

The problem I have is the utility on top of the damage potential. And it doesn't matter that javelin does more damage when slash does enough to kill almost everything in one or two activation.

I don't know how they'd balance it, but to me the game just seems too easy unless I ignore it.

if we bring all powers up to slash, the game will take hardly any skill. Energy is abundant since the share update, near endless chains of slash level powers will remove any challenge.

[HKP89]

Slash dash is a powerful skill, but one of those that can only be effective so long as an enemy is caught in its cone of effect. A grineer standing a step or two to the side of the rush is rendered unharmed.

Which leaves me to say, "DUDE, I just viciously sliced down the guy who was standing beside you. You should at least be freaking out right now!"

That said, perhaps the damage could be toned down a bit, but I feel that the equivalent of a "slash dash = I win" manuever is a "charged weapon = I win" attack. Both are spammable. One costs you energy and the other may cost you a bit of damage taken when closing the gap between you and a bad guy. I'd also say that a slash dash is no more powerful than any of the other frames' starter skills.

Also, the power of the Slash Dash compensates for the useless Super Jump. I mean, honestly, when have you ever seen a Super Jump be applied in the heat of battle?

[sambarpowder]

Hey, Super jump is good when you want to show off while waiting at extraction.

[AreWeHuman]

IMO it just scales too well It doesn't start off out of line. It gets there as you drop points in. Nerf the scaling, solve the problem. And super jump isn't useless. I abuse the hell out of that mobility in any room with a ceiling high enough to take advantage. I feel it should conserve speed a bit better when you do it from a sprint though.

An alternative to just nerfing the scaling on the whole would be to put a target limit on the ability. Like start it off with a max of two enemies hit and then increase it with each point. That maxes it at like 5 right? 5 still seems really strong in the abilities current form. The one thing I don't want to see is the energy cost go up. It would kill the utility of the move.

Oh and radial javelin isn't useless because of how good slash dash is. It just isn't that good. For sure isn't worth 2x the energy of radial blind. If it didn't suck vs bosses/heavies it might be more worthwhile, but it does. It's great for killing hordes of enemies that have for some unknown reason found themselves all around your proximity but so are guns. Or radial blind+punch all the guys.

[Zakalwe]

Super jump is awesome, I've no idea why people don't make more use of it.

The maneuverability of the Excalibur frame is amazing, he can outrun anything with his slash charge and leap to high levels in seconds. He also doesn't need to clamber up boxes to reach enemies on levels just above him, or run around to use staircases. Even in the cramped hallways with low ceilings he can use it to vault up to higher levels and negate ramps.

THis game is not difficult for a seasoned gamer, and the challenge is (for me at least) to try to clear the levels with the most efficiency and style. And S/Jump really adds to this. Every try aunching yourself into a cluster of mobs and seeing how many headshot you can score onj the way down? Hella fun!

Nerf the scaling, solve the problem.

The one thing I don't want to see is the energy cost go up. It would kill the utility of the move.

This I can get down with.

Oh and radial javelin isn't useless because of how good slash dash is. It just isn't that good. For sure isn't worth 2x the energy of radial blind. If it didn't suck vs bosses/heavies it might be more worthwhile, but it does. It's great for killing hordes of enemies that have for some unknown reason found themselves all around your proximity but so are guns. Or radial blind+punch all the guys.

Good point, it's not that great anyway. Still, it's fun to give a little animation to the Grineer's suggestion to "stick close to the walls".

[Foxbyte]

I think 33 energy would be a fair increase in energy.

[Enfo]

I assume most people in this thread complaining about it being too good haven't played on Pluto much.

Try it out first.

[Ferriwind]

loki decoy = lure whole map to a explosive barrel

shoot barrel = everyone dies

best 25 energy ever

Doesn't quite work that way, never did, and it seemed to have gotten nerfed anyway.

[t3st]

When you have multiple rank 30 frames, you'll realize that slash is fine, and necessary. I'd even go on to say that it's underpowered compared to what you get with other frames.

Every frame has one decent, defining ability. It just so happens that Excal's is his first, being a beginner frame.

[Zakalwe]

When you have multiple rank 30 frames, you'll realize that slash is fine, and necessary. I'd even go on to say that it's underpowered compared to what you get with other frames.

Every frame has one decent, defining ability. It just so happens that Excal's is his first, being a beginner frame.

Fair point. Building Ash, Ember, and Rhino now.

Do any of the others suit Melee as well as Excalibur?

Edited January 19, 2013 by Zakalwe

[AreWeHuman]

I assume most people in this thread complaining about it being too good haven't played on Pluto much.

Try it out first.

Tell us more on how its nice to have abilities that are stronk in pluto.

Some part of the game being way harder than other parts does not mean skill balance should be thrown out the window for the rest of the game.

Fair point. Building Ash, Ember, and Rhino now.

Do any of the others suit Melee as well as Excalibur?

Rhino can basically become invincible for a pretty decent duration and has an ability that is basically a somewhat harder to use slashdash. So I'd say he's pretty well suited to melee. Ember less so and I have not done much of anything with ash.

Edited January 19, 2013 by AreWeHuman

[Lichthammer]

Slash n Dash is Overpowered? try using it on Pluto mission.

and Javelin has a 360 degree arc hitting 1k dmg "Per Target" and hits EVERYTHING within the skill's range...

[Zakalwe]

Slash n Dash is Overpowered? try using it on Pluto mission.

Tell us more on how its nice to have abilities that are stronk in pluto.

Some part of the game being way harder than other parts does not mean skill balance should be thrown out the window for the rest of the game.

.

-

and Javelin has a 360 degree arc hitting 1k dmg "Per Target" and hits EVERYTHING within the skill's range...

Tried and tested, and 1-2 slashes take things out just as well as a single javelin, depending on how the enemies are clustered, and at a fraction of the cost.

That 1k damage per target doesn't really matter when slash kills everything in 1-2 runs ayway...

Edited January 19, 2013 by Zakalwe

[Sealgaire]

The only thing that needs done to slash dash is to narrow the swathe it cuts through. This would make it fit Excalibur's theme as a more mobile finesse based melee frame while differentiating it from Rhino's charge, which acts as more of a crowd control ability. The fact that slash dash is one of the few useful first abilities isn't really a compelling reason to nerf it. The other first abilities just need to be brought up to its level. Shuriken has already been mentioned, but Mag's is even more useless, literally the only use I've found for it is pulling the shields away from shield lancers. It can't even pull enemies off ledges if there's a railing in the way, which is the first thing I thought of using it for.