The Problem With Small Clans

[Tetsmeha]

Ever since the dojo update in U8, plenty of threads complain about small clans not being able to obtain the new content in a feasible amount of time. Many reasons are thrown around such as not wanted to be in a big clan, wanting the clan to be friends only, or not wanting to be in a clan at all.

 

It's obvious that the dojo has a big emphasis on big clans with loads of materials, and we all know materials come from players to play a lot. But it's unfair to complain to DE about it when those people in small clans don't want to invest in other people.

 

Recruiting to get a big guild is literally farming for human capital. If you don't want players with materials in your clan because you don't want a big clan, that's your fault. Bigger clans will just scoop them up and invest in them and hope they invest their materials back.

 

Also, scaling up costs for bigger clans has got to be the dumbest idea i've ever heard. Sometimes you people just don't understand the concept of a guild or the investment people will put into it.

[krisp]

Recruiting to get a big guild is literally farming for human capital. If you don't want players with materials in your clan because you don't want a big clan, that's your fault. 

What if we do want players with materials in our clan, but still don't want a big clan?

[cyrus106]

....so what I've come to understand, is you're saying "Screw you, your playstyle, your refusal to join a clan of strangers, and all small clans, just because they want a fair chance at the same features as someone else without joining huge clans"

 

Yeah, screw you too bud.

[Tetsmeha]

....so what I've come to understand, is you're saying "Screw you, your playstyle, your refusal to join a clan of strangers, and all small clans, just because they want a fair chance at the same features as someone else without joining huge clans"

 

Yeah, screw you too bud.

 

Wow i never knew there was so much gameplay in a menu.

 

Also, "fair chance"? A lot of these suggestions by small clans straight up gimp big clans.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Tetsmeha

[cyrus106]

Wow i never knew there was so much gameplay in a menu.

 

Also, "fair chance"? A lot of these suggestions by small clans straight up gimp big clans.

Does it? Or are you simply turning a blind eye to the fact that small clans are completely S.O.L?

 

Telling them to "Stop Q_Qing and join a bigger clan" doesn't solve the underlying problem.

 

Small clans are still screwed over. Instead of demanding these topics to stop, why not propose....gee I dunno....a solution?

 

And no, telling them to join a larger clan is not a solution

Edited May 24, 2013 by cyrus106

[FlanShark]

A menu and at least 9 weapons, dude.

....so what I've come to understand, is you're saying "Screw you, your playstyle, your refusal to join a clan of strangers, and all small clans, just because they want a fair chance at the same features as someone else without joining huge clans"

 

Yeah, screw you too bud.

This this this.

There is also the fact that DE_Steve said repeatedly that they would work out a way to avoid penalising family/friends type clans. I really hope he's still wracking his brains over it ;-)

Honestly, Tetsmeha, I imagine the dev team are a lot more concerned about players missing out on the dojo content than you seem to be. They laboured over it, they don't want people (people who want to see it, at that!) to miss it.

And speaking of labouring, your eagerness to apply terms like human capital to what is supposed to be a fun game is... downright sad

[Tetsmeha]

Does it? Or are you simply turning a blind eye to the fact that small clans are completely S.O.L?

 

Telling them to "Stop Q_Qing and join a bigger clan" doesn't solve the underlying problem.

 

Small clans are still screwed over. Instead of demanding these topics to stop, why not propose....gee I dunno....a solution?

 

And no, telling them to join a larger clan is not a solution

 

I never said to quit and join a big clan. Did you fully read the OP? They have the same opportunities to create quality clans with tons of people they would consider friends, but fail to do so.

[Tetsmeha]

And speaking of labouring, your eagerness to apply terms like human capital to what is supposed to be a fun game is... downright sad

 

Farming is labor and have been applied to games since forever. I fail to see your point.

[cyrus106]

I never said to quit and join a big clan. Did you fully read the OP? They have the same opportunities to create quality clans with tons of people they would consider friends, but fail to do so.

Maybe we don't want to recruit total strangers? I myself run a small clan, consisting of my group of 10-or-so friends. I don't want some random pubbie in my clan, thank you very much

 

 

Farming is labor and have been applied to games since forever. I fail to see your point.

Because you didn't even read his point. "Farming" and "Human capital" are not the same thing

Edited May 24, 2013 by cyrus106

[Tetsmeha]

 

Maybe we don't want to recruit total strangers? I myself run a small clan, consisting of my group of 10-or-so friends. I don't want some random pubbie in my clan, thank you very much

 

 

Because you didn't even read his point. "Farming" and "Human capital" are not the same thing

 

 

Do you have a reading problem or something? Ok first off you missed two things.

 

1.You can run a small guild and recruit people can MAKE friends.

2.He was talking about laboring and how "human capital" is a common term in that world. I was drawing parallels with the term "farming" because that's included in laboring.

[Ageless_Emperion]

Ever since the dojo update in U8, plenty of threads complain about small clans not being able to obtain the new content in a feasible amount of time. Many reasons are thrown around such as not wanted to be in a big clan, wanting the clan to be friends only, or not wanting to be in a clan at all.

 

It's obvious that the dojo has a big emphasis on big clans with loads of materials, and we all know materials come from players to play a lot. But it's unfair to complain to DE about it when those people in small clans don't want to invest in other people.

 

Recruiting to get a big guild is literally farming for human capital. If you don't want players with materials in your clan because you don't want a big clan, that's your fault. Bigger clans will just scoop them up and invest in them and hope they invest their materials back.

 

Also, scaling up costs for bigger clans has got to be the dumbest idea i've ever heard. Sometimes you people just don't understand the concept of a guild or the investment people will put into it.

 

So your saying that a smaller group of people that know each other and function better because they have established a community amongst themselves is worth less than a faceless organization with 200+ people that simply churns out tons of material by mere existance. Also that a fundamental part of the game is made inaccessible to people who are genuingly good and dedicated to it because they don't want to participate in said faceless organization.

 

Umm F*** off?

[cyrus106]

Do you have a reading problem or something? Ok first off you missed two things.

 

1.You can run a small guild and recruit people can MAKE friends.

2.He was talking about laboring and how "human capital" is a common term in that world. I was drawing parallels with the term "farming" because that's included in laboring.

Oh no, I read your point crystal clear. It's clear from your responses however, that you are far too narrow-minded to even discuss or listen to other's viewpoints/opinions. I've made my point on the matter, so carry on with your lack of consideration for a portion of the player base.

[Tetsmeha]

So your saying that a smaller group of people that know each other and function better because they have established a community amongst themselves is worth less than a faceless organization with 200+ people that simply churns out tons of material by mere existance. Also that a fundamental part of the game is made inaccessible to people who are genuingly good and dedicated to it because they don't want to participate in said faceless organization.

 

Umm F*** off?

 

Why are you making the assumption big clans are faceless drones? There do exist some clans who are big for the purpose of min/maxing resource gain by recruiting tons of players. But you can have a big clan with tons of friends and still have a strong community within the clan. Stop pretending every big clan out there exist entirely for dojo benefits.

[Tetsmeha]

Oh no, I read your point crystal clear. It's clear from your responses however, that you are far too narrow-minded to even discuss or listen to other's viewpoints/opinions. I've made my point on the matter, so carry on with your lack of consideration for a portion of the player base.

 

Pretty ironic considering you're ignoring my viewpoints.

[bakaxy]

Can I please have a downvote-button for threads like this?

[Ageless_Emperion]

Why are you making the assumption big clans are faceless drones? There do exist some clans who are big for the purpose of min/maxing resource gain by recruiting tons of players. But you can have a big clan with tons of friends and still have a strong community within the clan. Stop pretending every big clan out there exist entirely for dojo benefits.

 

One does not simply have 200+ "friends" its idiotic to even consider that. Its like pretending that 50,000 people you have added on facebook to min/max those games are your friends. You don't have strong communities in organizations of such magnitude (not in video games anyway, especially ones that limit your interactive party to 4 people), if you choose to once again pretend that you do for the sake of empty argument you can.

[smithf]

calm down all :)

 

I think I must point out:

A clan is not Dojo+features.

A clan is not sum of the resources it has.

A clan is made up of People.

 

With that, I think even if a clan is small and may get some clan features slower or some features not feasible at all, does that necessarily make it "less fun" for the clan? If all the members think so, then I guess the suggestion would be to make the clan big, or to join a big clan.

But if the people prefer to play in a small group which knows each other better, then even the absence of those extra features will not necessarily make it less enjoyable.

 

And the clan features are still new, unexplored and still undergoing development. Give yourself and the new features a chance. There are more than 1 way that leads to fun (which is the ultimate aim of us spending time in the game, right?)

 

tl;dr:

- Big clan with big dojo + many rooms not necessarily == more fun.

- Small clan which do not have all dojo features not necessarily == less fun.

- Give the evolving features AND yourselves a chance (to have more fun)

[cyrus106]

Can I please have a downvote-button for threads like this?

[zorinho20]

I don´t wanna play when and what some "officer" tell me.I play this game in a way I see fit and if it won´t be possible,I will just leave.

[Ageless_Emperion]

calm down all :)

 

I think I must point out:

A clan is not Dojo+features.

A clan is not sum of the resources it has.

A clan is made up of People.

 

With that, I think even if a clan is small and may get some clan features slower or some features not feasible at all, does that necessarily make it "less fun" for the clan? If all the members think so, then I guess the suggestion would be to make the clan big, or to join a big clan.

But if the people prefer to play in a small group which knows each other better, then even the absence of those extra features will not necessarily make it less enjoyable.

 

And the clan features are still new, unexplored and still undergoing development. Give yourself and the new features a chance. There are more than 1 way that leads to fun (which is the ultimate aim of us spending time in the game, right?)

 

tl;dr:

- Big clan with big dojo + many rooms not necessarily == more fun.

- Small clan which do not have all dojo features not necessarily == less fun.

- Give the evolving features AND yourselves a chance (to have more fun)

 

If you noticed they said that there were almost 30 new weapons released, almost half of those are dojo only and they are quite interesting ones at that. I don't mind grinding mats with my friends but the forma gating and the rediculous resource reqs means that it will take us months of sinking resources into the clan before we get any results while it will literally take others days before they will see results. That's an insane difference.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Ageless_Emperion

[Smoke39]

You can run a small guild and recruit people can MAKE friends.

 

Not everyone WANTS a bazillion "friends."  For many of us, beyond a certain number of people your interactions become spread so thin than most of them would become acquaintances at best.  It's fine if you don't feel this way--no one's calling for the downfall of large clans--but many of us don't want this.  I really don't understand your hostility, all we want is a fair chance at the clan-exclusive content without having to disband or dilute our small circles of friends.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Smoke39

[SetAbominae]

I don´t wanna play when and what some "officer" tell me.I play this game in a way I see fit and if it won´t be possible,I will just leave.

 

I don't get why in these forums it seems to be commonplace assumption that most if not all clans will force you to adapt to a schedule and are seemingly run by some sort of power trippy dictator.

 

I mean, you may very well be talking about big clans only, it still applies, I don't know what this assumption has its basis on.

 

Our clan at the moment has a whooping 10 members, we don't force anyone to do anything, they can play whenever, however, and in whatever way they wish to.

 

Clans I've ran in other games, which have gotten pretty massive (200+ people) went by the same philosophy, you join, and you play the game in whatever way you see fit, so long that way is not "griefing any and all things that show up in my path".

 

And I believe a good number of clans are in the same line, where the only rule is "don't be a prick".

 

I do, however, agree with the motion that if there's a way that small to mid-sized clans may get their own dojo spar-room/weapons lab easier it should probably be applied; and I woudn't be suprised if such rework was to be here before next week.

Edited May 24, 2013 by SetAbominae

[Tetsmeha]

If you noticed they said that there were almost 30 new weapons released, almost half of those are dojo only and they are quite interesting ones at that. I don't mind grinding mats with my friends but the forma gating and the rediculous resource reqs means that it will take us months of sinking resources into the clan before we get any results while it will literally take others days before they will see results. That's an insane difference.

 

And some people pay play to get all the forma they need. If the basis for creating a guild was to play with your friends, shifting it to getting dojo weapons probably isn't a good idea.

[smithf]

If you noticed they said that there were almost 30 new weapons released, almost half of those are dojo only and they are quite interesting ones at that. I don't mind grinding mats with my friends but the forma gating and the rediculous resource reqs means that it will take us months of sinking resources into the clan before we get any results while it will literally take others days before they will see results. That's an insane difference.

I kind agree, as if I have mostly been playing alone.

But having more weapon choices not necessarily match up to the game experience of a small close clan.

iow, i guess it is up to individual. DE is trying to steer the players in forming large "powerful" game. The weapon choices etc are the bait... I mean incentives. what I am trying to say is : we have a choice whether we want to take up the bait. e.g. If one could have fun with a couple of friends even with the more limited weapon choice while their game lasts (I guess nobody can say they will play a game forever), I think it could be enough. Not everybody gain "fun" by owning and mastering every piece of equipment that the game system could ever field ;)

[Ageless_Emperion]

And some people pay play to get all the forma they need. If the basis for creating a guild was to play with your friends, shifting it to getting dojo weapons probably isn't a good idea.

 

Its a bad idea to play with my friends to get new guild areas and weapons when we enjoy doing that? You know so when we run out of the stuff we have been using for months we can get something new. What exactly is your argument, you don't make a lot of sense?

 

I kind agree, as if I have mostly been playing alone.

But having more weapon choices not necessarily match up to the game experience of a small close clan.

iow, i guess it is up to individual. DE is trying to steer the players in forming large "powerful" game. The weapon choices etc are the bait... I mean incentives. what I am trying to say is : we have a choice whether we want to take up the bait. e.g. If one could have fun with a couple of friends even with the more limited weapon choice while their game lasts (I guess nobody can say they will play a game forever), I think it could be enough. Not everybody gain "fun" by owning and mastering every piece of equipment that the game system could ever field ;)

 

That's perfectly fine, I and my friends derive entertainment from using different equipment while exploring the game and working on community goals, if that's not for you then its not for you. What the OP stated and keeps poorly defending is that not only should we not focus on those things, but that we also don't deserve them because we choose not to conform to large organizations.