This Is Not The Type Of Feedback You Are Looking For After All Your Work With U8 - Welcome To Warfarmers

[xenorith]

I completely agree with Necrio. Monster Hunter has alot of timing, dodging, knowing when to hit, when not to hit, shock traps etc etc. And the fact that when you kill it, you just feel so damn happy about it, especially the end music, and town music (Pokke Village Theme, anyone? :D). Lech Kril is another step towards that direction, however, dynamic bosses are still far from being what it really is, dynamic. And as another guy pointed out, no point in us ranting out only (yes, ironic), but we need to give more suggestions. And hope the devs take notice. I kinda feel that alot of people are asking more content, albeit the wrong ones tho.

Edited May 28, 2013 by xenorith

[DeadlyNerd]

for RPGs (not including F2P) Fallout 3, fallout New Vegas, Borderlands 1, Borderlands 2, Skyrim, Dead Island, Lost Planet 2, Dead Rising 1 and 2.

 

Farming is OK, however it shouldn't be the main focus of the game and the only thing to do when you reach endgame. WoW has massive dungeon raids, PvP (which warframe DOES NOT need), professions, rare monsters to find and kill, hell, even Borderlands 2 has "XYZ the invincible" raid bosses. Warframe has... farming for the void, farming for the dojo, and farming for materials so you can farm less later.

I believe all of those RPGs, except borderlands which is more of a FPS than RPG, are SP only. Doesn't really apply to them as SP games are built only around the story although even borderlands has a farm factor. Mad Moxi was the prime example.

 

As for WoW, it's all still down to farming, was it a (not so massive nowadays) raid for PvE gear or PvP for PvP gear. Professions too. Before I quit, I was circling around high lvl areas for ore nodes to sell at the AH daily, if not hourly.

 

Also, all those games have a fixed retail price as they're a finished product. Warframe is free and bound to gain more content.

I'm not defending Warframe or DE here, just presenting a reasonable view at the game's state which helps understand and cope with the excessive grind and lack of meta.

 

 

 

 

So unlike with warframe in which you can use a Lex from 2 months ago till kingdom come, in wow, you will be throwing away stuff after a period of time, since it becomes completely obsolete.

 

That being said, WoW feels a hundred million times less of a farm fest than warframe.

Why is that so?

Mainly cause in world of warcraft, the objective is not the goal, but the journey that leads up to it.

Getting that tier equipment is really the cherry on the top of the cake, but the cake itself is the getting there.

 

You will be crafting, collecting recipes, trading, socializing, gathering achievements, interacting with lore, planning, fine tuning, gearing, theorizing with gear enchants, gemming, skill builds, boss mechanics, boss battles, communicating, making a team, scripting, modding, team working, doing 5 man parties, 10 man parties, 20 man parties, 40 man parties, sharing and loot distributing because only 1 item drops.... You wont have time to think about it.

 

 

As a former casual WoW player I'll have to disagree.

One didn't got to dungeons to see the new bosses or try the new tactics, which he could see on the youtube done by pros perfectly, but to gain gear. While it was 40man, which is pretty much a nice little memory from vanilla now, it was less of a grind as bosses had that chance to drop individual loot. Now it's down to farming tokens and buying your loot, so you're pretty much farming "raid money" to buy your gear.

I agree, collecting every single non raid recipe is an undertaking and not a farm, but collecting mats for high end recipes is an honest to god(just using the phrase here) farm.

Also, I can overlook everything you said but "theorizing with enchants", please don't. There are several end game enchants which are used on specific classes of specific builds. There's no theorizing when the game is about min/max. Again, you farmed for those enchants, oh so dearly.

 

Lastly lest not forget that WoW was done by Blizzard and has been 9 years in constant development. Its content was but a fraction of what it is now when it released.

You're expecting an in-beta game to have the content variety of a fully developed game done by a leading company in RPG genre.

Just look at any free MMORPG today. It's about farming, and then some more farming because it's the cheapest way to keep the playerbase while developing more meaningful content.

Edited May 28, 2013 by DeadlyNerd

[KageNoShini]

Necrio, you know what I want +1, it'd be more, but not allowed

 

 

While I understand OP's frustration, I have to ask.

What makes farming in WoW much different from this? Or even, name 1 RPG that isn't about farming.And even then, name 1 free RPG that isn't about farming.

You even pay a monthly fee to play WoW, meaning you pay a monthly fee to farm.

 

RNG is definitely the devil here and needs to go but for a game with so small meta, it's the only thing keeping players from completing the game in a week.

Wait for them to introduce more content and then start pressing them to remove the RNG system.

READ, READ what the OP says.

 

Farming =/= problem in his post, its the LACK of EVERYTHING else BESIDES farming.

[MEsoJD]

 I hope this thread gets mentioned in the livestream.

[DeadlyNerd]

Necrio, you know what I want +1, it'd be more, but not allowed

 

 

READ, READ what the OP says.

 

Farming =/= problem in his post, its the LACK of EVERYTHING else BESIDES farming.

Sorry, I saw 10 quotes and 10 lines with "farm" below those quotes. If OPs post isn't about farming then I don't know what is.

As for reading posts, read mine again and you'll notice I addressed that lack of everything else.

[securitywyrm]

I very much agree with the OP.

The biggest thing that attracted me to this game was that I could hop in, play a map and hop out. However, if the only purpose of playing a map is to farm materials... I could go farm materials in any generic MMO. 

I get it, it's a F2P game, and you need to find more ways to make money. However, I can't think of a single F2P game that pushed making money over delivering content that didn't fail in a year.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

 

I believe all of those RPGs, except borderlands which is more of a FPS than RPG, are SP only. Doesn't really apply to them as SP games are built only around the story although even borderlands has a farm factor. Mad Moxi was the prime example.

 

 

You asked for RPGs that weren't farm based, NOT online RPGs that weren't farm based. While borderlands has SOME farming, it doesn't have a lot, and certainly no where near that of warframe, WoW, LoL, etc have. Farming is ok in certain doses (or when it's done well), but when it's ALL you have, there needs to be more. We need more areas (that aren't blocked by a "paywall"/RNG) and tougher, more interesting bosses.

 

(bold your original quote broken down)

 

"What makes farming in WoW much different from this? and You even pay a monthly fee to play WoW, meaning you pay a monthly fee to farm."

Besides the fact that you can do big raids, and it has an endgame which you need to prep for? Not a lot. However there are other things to do besides farm, you can do daily quests, professions, etc, so it's not 24/7 farm, plus there is a story for those who care, and seasonal events (like their oktoberfest event, or the christmas event, or halloween, etc.

 

 

"And even then, name 1 free RPG that isn't about farming."

It doesn't NEED to be about not farming, if I look at vindictus, it has a LOT of farming, HOWEVER the mid to endgame bosses are interesting, and require tactics and skill to beat, along with taking a good deal of punishment.

 

(In addition the levels and environments, while using some of the same tilesets, are generally decently varied and can be pushed through quickly, plus new areas bring new tilesets.)

 

However Warframe does boss fights poorly overall in the way that they just are bullet sponges. Basically, Vindictus is an example of farming done right. The fights are challenging, fun, and generally unique. Sure you have to run a boss a few times, but you can skip the farming if you have enough money, and just buy the mats you need (not paid money, gold you earn) which is something warframe doesn't allow. You can't go buy the systems/helm/chassis you need, you just gotta put your face right back on the grindstone and keep going.

 

"RNG is definitely the devil here and needs to go but for a game with so small meta, it's the only thing keeping players from completing the game in a week."

I agree, they need to add more content, not RNG filler (like the void is, it's a WONDERFUL map, but it's blocked by a bunch of RNG, unless you pay.)

 

"Wait for them to introduce more content and then start pressing them to remove the RNG system."

Yes and no here, we could use some more content, however the RNG is pretty weird, and could use tweaks, like bosses who drop common mats, at the very least they should drop uncommon mats, unless they get a rework to be tougher and more fun, so it takes time to beat them, not a banshee with a hek + maxed sonar to kill them in one or two hits (mostly).

 

Stuff like jackal, or now Kril are done better. They're bosses who take some work and thinking to beat initially, but what we need are bosses with "true" multiple stages to them to fight, things that force you to change and adapt to their new weakness each time they go to a new stage.

Edited May 28, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[KageNoShini]

Sorry, I saw 10 quotes and 10 lines with "farm" below those quotes. If OPs post isn't about farming then I don't know what is.

As for reading posts, read mine again and you'll notice I addressed that lack of everything else.

yea, you said to wait about it, but you didn't understand the point of his post, that's why I told you read.

[Gekker]

Tbh. I enjoy unlocking new content and then using that content to unlock even more content. It gives the game some variety everytime I use a new weapon /warframe. And this is implemented around a great core gameplay.

While I do that I progress with my mastery level that represents my experience very well.

 

But I am afraid this is it.

 

I agree to 100% with the OP.

There is nothing more in this patch besides exploring new territory and maybe new weapons /warframes that I will never get my hands on becaue of these ridiculous drop rates

On a side note: These drop rates and RNG is the second biggest flaw in my opinion.

Unlocking content by chance has actually no real sense of archievement behind it. I am having fun when I am lucky but I am also really disappointed most of the time because I am mostly unlucky.

And as usual. Bad emotions excel good emotions. Thats why I think that an probability of less than 50% of something nice happening is a bad design decision. There are other ways to make content rare and hard to get. Using RNG and probability is a cheap one.

 

 

Even though I really enjoy unlocking new content. Its not enough to keep me playing this game for a long time. And its definitely not making me pay for content.

Important side note: The most problematic aspect of this games current micro transaction policy is that actually unlocking weapons and warframes reduces the gameplay to nothing. Since farming new content is everything there is to this game.

I think this is a crucial flaw of the economic concept of the game right now. I bought platin, but only for slots and visuals. And I will do it again if the game changes for the better.

 

 

 

When I heard that DE focuses on "endgame" content on U8 I thought we would get something to use the items we farmed after so many hours for something "useful". Something that gives us the opportunity to compete with each other. To show off :)

So we can try out different setups and see how good they are in comparison to others.

Many games use PvP for this. But even PvE games can archieve this with actual challenges that have representative leaderboards. Statistics have to be recorded for a set of different challenges that represents how good a player was in that particular challange.

 

We have PvP duelling now and it works? Good. If you can't come up with some useful PvE competition use PvP for this sake.

Turn this in something usefull. Add leaderboards! Tournaments! Prizes!

And when PvP turns out even better. Let us raid other clans dojo! If we win. We get ressources and if we fail with the raid we lose the ressources we spent on performing the raid. Get creative here DE!

 

 

We don't need more content wrapped in ridiculous drop rates. We don't need 3 requrements for a BP if one requirement won't drop after 100 raids.

We need challenges. We need statistics (RSS statistics!)! We need to compare players to others.

 

This game, no, we players needs a goal. A goal that gets more difficult everytime one player manages to beat the record! This is what I call endgame content!

 

DE, please tell me you agree, please!

[Spriggs]

It's great to see so many people addressing the problem at hand, so that should be essential information to the dev team; especially the suggestions for solutions. Just so you know, DERebecca has been notified of the problem at hand and will be bringing this up with the dev team. Any and all ideas to fix this are greatly welcomed, so keep up the good work. :)

Edited May 28, 2013 by Spriggs

[KageNoShini]

It's great to see so many people addressing the problem at hand, so that should be essential information to the dev team; especially the suggestions for solutions. Just so you know, DERebecca has been notified of the problem at hand and will be bringing this up with the dev team. Any and all ideas to fix this are greatly welcomed, so keep up the good work. :)

Cool, thanks for the heads up

 

I do hope for things like obstacle course levels, and some kind of reason to play missions over again aside from mobile/endless defense

[Vandoore]

I'd just like to say that I agree with most parts in the OP. Right now you farm and complete missions, either by yourself or as a team (using that word loosely) that unlock new areas with harder enemies that require different weapons or abilities that require farming to build. Till, as of right now, you get to the end sit back and say now what.? Where is the big end or next level?

 

But I have to say is it not obvious new gameplay elements will be added? Just look at what has been added already, warframes, weapons, colours, sentinels, tiles, enemies, even PVP.

 

I mean PVP in a PVE slaughterhouse. Granted you need to farm to get it or join an insanely large clan to access the duelling room, but the concept, is there. And for the record adding this gladiator style pvp to the game works. I sat there for 10 mins watching this frost kick everyones butt, rhino didn't stand a chance.

 

But maybe people are just a bit too impatient? Players have seen all these additions in such a short time they become immune to the fact that creating/changing core elements within the game take time.

 

Last words, now that I've gotten through the content, rushed my way to the finish. I can sit back and start contributing to the game, coming up with ideas, look at how problems can be overcome, and like the OPer see what needs to be changed to keep the game from falling through the floor. I'd dread to see this game end up like WarZ.

[dracoflamulas]

Short and sweet, I read through maybe 10 of the posts on the first page, and it seems like most people don't realize that the only gear in this game is the warframe, the helmets they have, sentinels, and weapons. None of it improves by ranking it up, the guns and melee "used to", but they nerfed that in lue of the mod system. To get mods, you farm from the different factions, and hope the random mod generator (RMG) gives you what you want or need. Myself, I've tried farming, once, got BORED out of my wits after going through Acanth on Eris twice, most times only getting one or two mods, and other times getting lucky and finding 7 mods on one run through. What do I get for my efforts? Warframe mods I have no use for because I use Rhino, and only Rhino, or regular Fusion Cores commonly set at rank 3, which barely move the bars on my mods and cost way too much to be of any use. So far all I see are people whom think that's what MMOing is meant to be for, sorry to say, but that's only THEIR way of playing an MMO. I like to hang out with friends, not rush through things to get the most out of what is offered, play together with those that actually know what teamwork is, and HAVE FUN. It's just a game, what fun is there when most of the people just rush through, complete the objective, and then ditch anyone to exit as fast as they can? 

 

A trade system would be wonderful, even if it costs some credits to give someone on your friend list something they need. My mate and I started playing a few months back, wound up I was getting Frost mods and he was getting Rhino mods. I'm Rhino, he's Frost, and all I can do is sell those Frost mods with no way to give them to my mate. Rank 30 Excalibur warframe, rank 30 Rhino, got two sets of primary, secondary, and melee weapons, currently working on ranking up the second set and finding it hard to do without an affinity booster. You'd think going through a higher ranked mission with mobs being as much as twice your level would net you some hefty EXP. . . I kill level 40 Infested and get 74 EXP, most of which goes into my maxed rank warframe instead of being disbursed to the weapons that actually NEED the EXP. I kill level 15 Infested and get the same amount of EXP, you can't get more wrong than that. The only difference between the missions is the number of Infested I have to kill for the extermination, while it nets more EXP at the end, it's only due to killing more enemies than the other mission. 

 

Another idea, a way of absorbing affinity and storing it, say you have nothing but rank 30 everything, warframe, sentinel, sentinel weapon, primary, secondary, and melee. You go through a high level mission and have nothing for the affinity to be absorbed into to level up, how about an option to save that useless affinity at the end of a mission into a "bank" of sorts and then when you do get a new warframe or weapon, ect., you can tap your bank and a percentage of that saved affinity goes into the new item. I'd say no more than 5% every 24-48 hours, that way you don't end up with an exploitation of players with new gear already max ranked.

[Varelze]

How about they leverage the content that is already in the game but add competitive elements to generate new gameplay. For example, take the capture missions and make it 4v4. Each team starts on different ends of the ship and are racing to capture the target and bring him back to their ship. Killing a tenno carrying the target has the target drop. The ship is still populated with AI as well.

 

Other gametypes can be reworked to support competitive missions. This would also emphasize team play and having squads of different warframes - tanks to hold off while a fast warframe makes the capture and runs for it, etc.

 

I'd also love to see a download the data mission type similar to the co-op mission in Perfect Dark 64. Your team has to get to a terminal and one member has to download the data, which takes a bit of time, while the other 3 defend him / her. 

Edited May 29, 2013 by Varelze

[BoompigXD]

Ok a lot of people are hating on farming for everything and everybody is saying that this game is nothing but farming.

 

Well......................................................................... That's F2P in a nutshell.

 

In any F2P game in order to make money to keep supporting the game is to offer content you can buy with real cash. The easiest way to do this is to allow to be able to get weapons earlier. If you don't want to spend money you have to wait and grind to death.

 

Some people are saying the farming goes without a point.

 

I'm going to post a thread tommorow that will give farming a point aka Better Bosses.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Ok a lot of people are hating on farming for everything and everybody is saying that this game is nothing but farming.

Sure

 

Well......................................................................... That's F2P in a nutshell.

Doesn't mean it can't be fun, and other games like Vindictus have end game raids and stuff.

 

In any F2P game in order to make money to keep supporting the game is to offer content you can buy with real cash. The easiest way to do this is to allow to be able to get weapons earlier. If you don't want to spend money you have to wait and grind to death.

Sure, that's reasonable.

 

Some people are saying the farming goes without a point.

It does, the ENTIRE GAME'S CONTENT is farming right now. That's it. Nothing more.

 

I'm going to post a thread tommorow that will give farming a point aka Better Bosses.

[Hekatonkheire]

You think this is bad ?

They're still in Beta, it's free. 

 

You know what isn't either of those things and requires farming to get anything ?

 

Borderlands 2. 
 

I feel that this game takes ages to get places but when you're there at the end, it must get boring. but I remember that it could be worse. 

[CreativeDestruction]

OP and the extremely long discussion following do have a valid point, and yes many people were excited and disappointed by this update, but think of it this way.

Without adding more straight content to the game, what end game fun could they have added? Changing the way bosses fight or making things harder? That isn't really end game.

I'm seeing this patch as laying out the framework for actual end game content. Through update seven they had the bare bones of the game itself, update 8 refined the game, adding more scenery, content, and progression to the game they can add onto in the future.

Had update 8 not come, you would still be waiting for more end game content anyways, adding something clans have to work together to build, new more powerful items and such just makes me think the next patch may actually be impressive.

Things I still hope to see:
New game modes or bosses that you have to strategically kill (Like the hyena where you have to do more than just spray at the body)
Raid bosses
Having blueprints awarded to all players in a team when one teammate picks it up.
Clan limitations (Such as each player costing the clan dojo 1 energy, not a physical limit)
Resource boosters (artifact or platinum items)
New artifacts (Such as sprint speed, armor increase/receive less damage, resource drop, auto-revive [with time limit])
Missions involving actual teamwork, such as clan missions or forcing teammates to split up

A point of mastery rank, or reward for increasing it (player mastery, not frame/weapon)

 

The list goes on but the game is still quite new.

Edited May 30, 2013 by CreativeDestruction

[Kiteless]

How about they leverage the content that is already in the game but add competitive elements to generate new gameplay. For example, take the capture missions and make it 4v4. Each team starts on different ends of the ship and are racing to capture the target and bring him back to their ship. Killing a tenno carrying the target has the target drop. The ship is still populated with AI as well.

 

Other gametypes can be reworked to support competitive missions. This would also emphasize team play and having squads of different warframes - tanks to hold off while a fast warframe makes the capture and runs for it, etc.

 

I'd also love to see a download the data mission type similar to the co-op mission in Perfect Dark 64. Your team has to get to a terminal and one member has to download the data, which takes a bit of time, while the other 3 defend him / her. 

 

 

This is how I can see a really good PvP metagame developing in Warframe. It's roots are still deeply PvE, but it offers some very interesting competitive elements that can make it truly unique.

 

With the way the game is built, straight up deathmatch just does not work, but this is something I could really see myself getting behind.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

You think this is bad ?

They're still in Beta, it's free. 

 

You know what isn't either of those things and requires farming to get anything ?

 

Borderlands 2. 

 

I feel that this game takes ages to get places but when you're there at the end, it must get boring. but I remember that it could be worse. 

I disagree, I never farmed until after I beat the game, and that was for legendary stuffs.

[DarianWulfbane]

I don't see the issue with the farming. Really, I see this as the difference between a relationship and a one-night-stand. One game will give you a small amount of enjoyment and then you'll move on to the next. The other game (Warframe, in this case) becomes a commitment. You put time and effort into what you have, and yes, it does take a good chunk of farming, but when you do finally get the reward you were seeking, you feel as though you have accomplished something and did so with nothing but your own hard work and effort. Of course, if you dislike the farming, there is nothing stopping you from not playing until there is less farm.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I don't see the issue with the farming.

Neither do I

Really, I see this as the difference between a relationship and a one-night-stand. One game will give you a small amount of enjoyment and then you'll move on to the next. The other game (Warframe, in this case) becomes a commitment. You put time and effort into what you have, and yes, it does take a good chunk of farming, but when you do finally get the reward you were seeking, you feel as though you have accomplished something and did so with nothing but your own hard work and effort. Of course, if you dislike the farming, there is nothing stopping you from not playing until there is less farm.

 

That's the problem though, if all there is, is farming then there should be more real content released instead of some content blocked by a large amount of farming.

[Aerensiniac]

I don't see the issue with the farming.

 

Ok a lot of people are hating on farming for everything and everybody is saying that this game is nothing but farming.

 

Well......................................................................... That's F2P in a nutshell.

 

You think this is bad ?

They're still in Beta, it's free. 

Let me try to spell this out one more time for the less fortunate....

Warframe lacks EVERY form of metagame. There is NOTHING. No team play, no synergy, no challenge, no boss fights, no nothing. I can list a half page worth of missing elements to end up at the conclusion that ALL warframe consists of right now is "farming frames in order to use those frames for more farming for frames". There is nothing more. You cant even farm mods due to the fact that its all pressed into one RNG loot table without difficulty/reward scaling, giving you a chance that is measured in 68 decimals to obtain specific mods, at any given time or place.

 

There is no point in comparing this to borderlands or the most grinding games out there, because those games would still have half a million larger metagame than warframe does.

So if you didnt understand a word i have said up till now, then here is a tl;dr version:

Making a game tediously and repetitious with a lack in variety will burn out your players in a flash.

Ironically, by this measure you could list warframe in dictionaries under the word monotonous ("Tediously repetitious or lacking in variety. See Synonyms at boring.")

 

If you started the game now, then its only natural that you enjoy it.

Wait 2 months and lets see what happens.

 

Also: This is pretty much my closure response to the topic cause Warframe officially will crumble till U9.

They had a chance at U8 to address this issue, which imo is the biggest problem, and they missed out on it. Lets see what player base warframe will have in 3-4 months when U9 comes out, cause im calling dibs on a few hundreds.

Edited May 30, 2013 by Aerensiniac

[NotaCobra]

Really... I think you're entirely missing the real issue, OP.

 

The problem is not farm, not RNG, not the way RNG is present, not the "lack of content" perse.

 

 

The problem is no danger

No final strategic fights to put your gear to the test.

 

The whole game is like hitting "1+1++" on a calculator and spamming the equals sign...

You just watch your numbers get bigger and bigger.

Yeah, you can kind of do it around your friends and see whos numbers can get bigger faster, or who can get the biggest number before their fingers break...

 

But without any difficulty, strategy or thought...

The game is literally just a big number generator.

 

 

 

 

 

That said!

It's not hard to add some difficulty, some end game content.

And the game is very pretty!

Gameplay is quite fun, the potential is all there and easily enjoyed.

 

I think you're too quick to pounce on a game that is in beta.

Beta wow was a piece of crap, you keep making comparisons, but consider that beta wow had no raids, it had no dungeons...

It was a grind fest with no goal.

A pretty grind fest, filled with interesting and inspired lore...

but that was it.

 

Warframe could be big, but it needs a little time.

[Aerensiniac]

Difficulty was one of my major points Cobra... then again i guess not many people bother to read 9 pages.