[Spoilers] Let's Talk About Natah Quest's Lore - Read Only If You Have Played.

[BrazilianJoe]

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SPOILERS BELOW, YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.

 

So, what was that? Here's what I have gathered from the quest dialogue, if I misunderstood or missed something please comment. 

 

Lotus was called Natah, and she is actually a sentient. She does not appreciate being called that name, at all. 

 

Lotus is the new identity she created for herself as she betrayed/forfeited the 'last sequence' of her mission, back when she was still Natah, and doing Sentient skunk works.

 

She actually buries back her father/mother/Sentient back in the tomb in the quest. The Sentient was NOT killed in the process, it was only temporarily trapped to gain time. 

 

The traveling technology she underwent to get to the Sol systems had side effects which rendered her infertile. 

 

The 'sequence' (mission) she was in charge of involved orchestrating the Tenno uprising against the Orokin. The last part of her sequence was to destroy all Tenno afterwards. 

 

She gave up that for some reason, and became the Tenno space mom. Perhaps she had mommy/daddy issues and her sterility + motherly instincts drove her to become a surrogate mom for the Tenno. 

 

So she really has a screwed up mind. 

 

This leads us to conclude that, even after the Sentients had lost the 'all-out' war against the Orokin, they still had operatives in the Sol system attempting to thwart the Orokin empire, and thwart it they did. 

 

We still don't know what her real motivations are, and now the Lotus is a more morally ambiguous character, more than it has ever been. 

 

This it a Tsar Bomba to fuel all the #deathtothelotus conspiracy threads. 

 

We still don't know exactly WHAT motivated her change of heart, or even if it's sincere. Maybe she got to discover that the Orokin still have a secret hidden up on their sleeves, but she didn't have the resources to destroy it at the time. She could have protected the Tenno because they were too valuable a weapon to destroy, either as a precaution or because she knew the Orokin had a life insurance plan and would come back in the future.

 

We still don't have a clue about who started the war between the Orokin and the Sentient. And we don't know if any of these two are good. It seems they are both shades of brown, but we don't know which stinks worse. 

 

Mommy Lotus can still be just Natah's façade.

 

We are all John Snow, we know nothing.  

 

DISCUSS.

Edited August 4, 2015 by -TP-BrazilianJoe

[The_Raall]

For some reason I just want to betray Lotus and side with sentients... Natahs father seemed cool guy.

[Morec0]

imo, she is sincere. She's already been shown to care deeply about the Tenno, and without any noticeable or even hinted alternative motives other than "keep Tenno safe, preserve balance" I think it's a bit of a huge leap to say that she's got any.

[BansheePrime]

Natahs parent seemed cool... they was cindering! Anyone who has anything to do with fire must be trustworthy! -Ember Prime

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

 

We still don't know what her real motivations are, and now the Lotus is a more morally ambiguous character, more than it has ever been. 

 

This it a Tsar Bomba to fuel all the #deathtothelotus conspiracy threads. 

 

We still don't know exactly WHAT motivated her change of heart, 

*extremely dramatic sigh*

[Fretful1]

Well, from what I gathered, as Lotus said, "Natah was the daughter" and followed her dad's orders, but she had a dream, to have children of her own. She found the perfect ones, children who were experimented on, children who lost everything, even most of their humanity, children who she could be a mother, the Tenno. And that is how the Lotus was born, by Natah's desire to be a mother. That's why I think Lotus is doing all of this with good intentions towards us. Because she wants, it's her free will.

[DoctorGyarados]

Morally ambiguous? I've always seen Lotus as a cold, distant war general. She commands an army of millions of quasi-magic invulnerable ninja, and none of her dialogue up until now has ever shown any emotion. She's always monotone.

 

All of her interactions with the Tenno are via commands, even. Get the job done, get home.

 

No "You did well, Tenno." It's "We're done here."

 

No "Are you okay, Tenno?" It's "Next time, follow my orders"

 

No "Stay safe Tenno - destroying that reactor has triggered a meltdown." It's "The power core has been destroyed."

 

Lotus has never shown care for the Tenno in any way other than how you would care for a tool. They are an army for her, not her children.

Edited August 4, 2015 by DoctorGyarados

[trieuazn0]

the Mirage Quest showed that she Dose Care for us (i may have taken the story wrong, but Mirage was Fighting the Sentients, while the Natar was Telling her to leave)

 

but lets get some Assumtions out of the way

 

i belive one of the old Lore storys stated that the Sentients were "Worm-like Beings", the things we have seen so far related to the Sentients are some robotic Drones and the Lotus.

 

what if the Lotus and her would be Race are just a bunch of smart people who were made too be the Sentients Communication Lines, plan makers During the Orokin war, and the Lotus Saw freedom by using the Tenno

 

@DoctorGyarados, During an Capture mission, she dose somtimes say "Happy Hunting" 

Edited August 4, 2015 by trieuazn0

[BrazilianJoe]

imo, she is sincere. She's already been shown to care deeply about the Tenno, and without any noticeable or even hinted alternative motives other than "keep Tenno safe, preserve balance" I think it's a bit of a huge leap to say that she's got any.

 

She could be following a command of a superior "officer" among the Sentients. 

 

Picture this imaginary dialogue: 

 

UberSentient: The Orokin have a time  capsule. They have pocketed a part of them in a fold of space-time continuum similar, but not equal to the Void. They can't get in or out from there until the knot unravels, which will take a fixed time. My intel was unable to precise it, but it is at least X thousand years, because it's physically impossible to be less. 

 

Natah: what you want me to do?

 

UberSentient: betray us. 

 

Natah: excuse me? 

 

UberSentient: Your orders are to revolt the Tenno against the Orokin and bring down the empire from the inside. Use the same weapon they used to stop our "freedom party" against themselves. And then destroy the weapon. 

I want you to preserve the weapon for the future instead. No one else knows of the information I am  telling you, not even your DaddyMommyNatah. And no one can know. 

 

Natah: So you want me to be a paryah and a traitor.

 

UberSentient: And a martyr and savior to our peopletoo. By becoming our enemy. You shouldn't hesitate to protect the weapon at all costs. ALL COSTS. Including pointing the weapon against other Sentients. At least until the Orokin come back and they can be annihilated for good. 

 

Natah: I can do it.

 

UberSentient: I knew you wouldn't hesitate, that's why I chose you. You was always the best operator. 

 

--

 

She could be just following orders, even now. 

Edited August 4, 2015 by -TP-BrazilianJoe

[Azakeroth]

What I keep wondering about...is when Natah said she put the Tenno in the "Second Dream"...and Ordis mentions all the time "Do not split the dream".

 

Ah well, see ya in 2 years for the next small part of lore that gets released :P

[Morec0]

She could be following a command of a superior "officer" among the Sentients. 

 

Picture this imaginary dialogue: 

 

UberSentient: The Orokin have a time  capsule. They have pocketed a part of them in a fold of space-time continuum similar, but not equal to the Void. They can't get in or out from there until the knot unravels, which will take a fixed time. My intel was unable to precise it, but it is at least X thousand years, because it's physically impossible to be less. 

 

Natah: what you want me to do?

 

UberSentient: betray us. 

 

Natah: excuse me? 

 

UberSentient: Your orders are to revolt the Tenno against the Orokin and bring down the empire from the inside. Use the same weapon they used to stop our "freedom party" against themselves. And then destroy the weapon. 

I want you to preserve the weapon for the future instead. No one else knows of the information I am  telling you, not even your DaddyMommyNatah. And no one can know. 

 

Natah: So you want me to be a paryah and a traitor.

 

UberSentient: And a martyr and savior to our peopletoo. By becoming our enemy. You shouldn't hesitate to protect the weapon at all costs. ALL COSTS. Including pointing the weapon against other Sentients. At least until the Orokin come back and they can be annihilated for good. 

 

Natah: I can do it.

 

UberSentient: I knew you wouldn't hesitate, that's why I chose you. You was always the best operator. 

 

--

 

She could be just following orders, even now. 

 

To what end? The Sentients seem to be a fairly-close knit bunch, what on earth would killing off so many of their own kind - especially when they had the clear-shot goal to finish off their final and greatest enemy - the Tenno.

 

And I'm PRETTY SURE the Orokin ARE all finished off. And even if they aren't, if the Sentients could get rid of the Tenno they'd have zero problem fighting against the Orokin's hypothetical return.

 

But, as you said, imaginary dialogue. Hence why I said we lack any "noticeable or even hinted alternative motives". What you're doing is basically the same as thinking "what if we nuke Russia in the Cold War?".

[Pizzarugi]

Morally ambiguous? I've always seen Lotus as a cold, distant war general. She commands an army of millions of quasi-magic invulnerable ninja, and none of her dialogue up until now has ever shown any emotion. She's always monotone.

 

All of her interactions with the Tenno are via commands, even. Get the job done, get home.

 

No "You did well, Tenno." It's "We're done here."

 

No "Are you okay, Tenno?" It's "Next time, follow my orders"

 

No "Stay safe Tenno - destroying that reactor has triggered a meltdown." It's "The power core has been destroyed."

 

Lotus has never shown care for the Tenno in any way other than how you would care for a tool. They are an army for her, not her children.

When the Grustrag Three begin their attack, the first thing Lotus says is essentially get the hell outta there. When she tells you to follow her orders next time, its because you didn't listen to her to abandon the mission for your own good.

In the end of a defense mission, Lotus can say "Very impressive, Tenno. You held them all back."

In a mobile defense mission, she says "I cannot do this without you".

When you run low on o2, she frequently suggests you can extract at anytime.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Pizzarugi

[-skimmer-]

Until now we believed that Orokin defeated the Sentients with Tenno and Tenno then betrayed and defeated the Orokin. In the quest its mentioned that Sentients defeated the Orokin and Lotus hid the Tenno away from the Sentients.

 

That raises a lot of questions about how the events went down.

Edited August 4, 2015 by -skimmer-

[Pizzarugi]

Until now we believed that Orokin defeated the Sentients with Tenno and Tenno then betrayed and defeated the Orokin. In the quest its mentioned that Sentients defeated the Orokin and Lotus hid the Tenno away from the Sentients.

 

That raises a lot of questions about how the events went down.

Stalker's lore says the Tenno destroyed the Orokin just after the victory ceremony. After the twelfth(?) beat of a drum.

According to the 'sequence' mentioned by Natah's mother, we can assume she carried out the part where she told the Tenno to destroy the Orokin, but she couldn't bring herself to destroy the Tenno in the 'final sequence'.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Pizzarugi

[BrazilianJoe]

To what end? The Sentients seem to be a fairly-close knit bunch, what on earth would killing off so many of their own kind - especially when they had the clear-shot goal to finish off their final and greatest enemy - the Tenno.

 

And I'm PRETTY SURE the Orokin ARE all finished off. And even if they aren't, if the Sentients could get rid of the Tenno they'd have zero problem fighting against the Orokin's hypothetical return.

 

But, as you said, imaginary dialogue. Hence why I said we lack any "noticeable or even hinted alternative motives". What you're doing is basically the same as thinking "what if we nuke Russia in the Cold War?".

 

 

"pretty sure" is just opinion. Sentients and orokin were ASSUMED to be destroyed. It is now factual that not all Sentients were destroyed. Lotus IS a Sentient, her daddy/mommy is buried but awake, and there are other which are still to be awakened. 

 

The Tenno were never *the enemy* of the Sentients. The Orokin were. Tenno were only the tools of war the Orokin employed to push back the  Sentients. 

 

The Sentients seem to be pretty single-minded in achieving their goals. The Lotus is cold and distant almost 100% of the time, and it sheems she has a lot of secrets. 

 

I am just saying that she can have any sort of motivation to preserve the Tenno. given that her mission was to break down the Orokin empire from inside, since direct war failed, and she succeeded, one can say she is a goddamn cold-blooded motehr#@*&$@ which knows her S#&$. 

 

Trying to believe that she preserve the Tenno because 'she wanted to be a mom' is more ludicrous than believing that she is still doing part of a mission, which not all Sentients are privy of. 

 

She brought down the entire Orokin Empire for FSM's sake. 

Edited August 4, 2015 by -TP-BrazilianJoe

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

When the Grustrag Three begin their attack, the first thing Lotus says is essentially get the hell outta there. When she tells you to follow her orders next time, its because you didn't listen to her to abandon the mission for your own good.

 

I really wish they'd drop (or change) the "Next time follow orders" line, like, the G3 are easy to obliterate, I'm not going to run when I can have some free mods and Neurodes. Then I complete the mission anyway, and Lotus is like "The mission was scrapped, but you made it out alive, that is a victory." Lelwut? I killed them and completed the mission!

[-skimmer-]

Stalker's lore says the Tenno destroyed the Orokin just after the victory ceremony. After the twelfth(?) beat of a drum.

According to the 'sequence' mentioned by Natah's mother, we can assume she carried out the part where she told the Tenno to destroy the Orokin, but she couldn't bring herself to destroy the Tenno in the 'final sequence'.

 

Yes, thats what I think as well. The Sentients were mentioned as having a habit of turning Orokin weaponry back at them, which is why Orokin used Tenno to fight against them. It seems Tenno were turned as well. I just wonder how?

And if Lotus hid the Tenno away from Sentients...who defeated the Sentients? Was it the Grineer? One of the Simaris entries certainly aludes to that. The story from the quest doesnt quite add up...or I am just taking every line way too literaly.

Edited August 4, 2015 by -skimmer-

[Brachion]

Why does everyone think the Lotus is a Sentient? Her "parent" straight-up says that she used to be human ("Does this form remind you of what you once were?"), and the Sentients are some kind of machine (as stated in the Crewman Synthesis lore). In addition, the Sentients have a hivemind, so leaders would be pointless. There's another problem, too: the Lotus mentions traveling through the Void, which is impossible for Sentients to do (again, as stated in the Crewman lore). It seems more likely that the Lotus is a modified human who was sent through the Solar Rails to do... something.

[Pizzarugi]

Yes, thats what I think as well. The Sentients were mentioned as having a habit of turning Orokin weaponry back at them, which is why Orokin used Tenno to fight against them. It seems Tenno were turned as well. I just wonder how?

And if Lotus hid the Tenno aways from sentients...who defeated them? The story from the quest doesnt quite add up...or I am just taking every line way too literaly.

Well, I already said it: Natah convinced the Tenno to destroy the Orokin. How? Infiltration and sabotage. It's safe to assume that when the Sentients realized their defeat was inevitable, they sent a small army into the Sol system and stayed hidden in order to destroy the Orokin from within. Natah was the key, and she was ordered to wipe out both Orokin and Tenno.

 

Given how she strongly believes in balance, she probably used that as a convincing argument to carry out her orders. Look at it this way: The Orokin and Sentients were equally matched in power and size (like the Grineer and Corpus). With the Sentients destroyed, the Orokin will have total control over the Sol system and perhaps beyond. The Sentients were destroyed, so balance demands that the Orokin join them in oblivion.

[tocorro]

Well if not for Vor all of us would be in cryo sleep she put us in ;)

"Destroy Orokin and then go to sleep. Mummy is proud of ya. Stay obediently in the freezer like a good kid".

Edited August 4, 2015 by tocorro

[8gbMoreRAM]

I guess we can say Natah was part of a...

[Morec0]

I guess we can say Natah was part of a...

 

Booo!

 

I'm kidding.

 

That's glorious.

 

Marry me.

[aoguro]

im in a moral dilemma

 

im at the mission where i, a tenno, have to protect the bomb which can seal nathas father off her (hello, sigmund freud, welcome in warframe) ^^)

 

im not shure if i should go on to help to murder a sentient, especially lotus father

 

furthermore im also not shure with the underwatertileset and the alarm a played today with a team

 

we all was running through the bassins instead of archwinging in water and i was not able to get out at the last hole, so i missed the ingame-cash-reward

 

im also puzzled about the new kubrow, im not shure if i wanna do 10 to 20 breeds and deleting the mass of non-chesas which appear

 

im also not shure what i should do with warframe since U 17 arrived

 

i meet since friday on 2 accounts only 1 sentient, couldnt find him and so i heared i should try to go into the first mission of the natha-quest for scanning a sentient to get my "own" quest on start

 

i did it ... but now im really in troubles to send nathas father to hell ;-)

great lore, great update ... did i say smth about the 20 pl for each of my warframes for the new mod-slot ?

 

i think i will not mention this ... or adress this posting to the developers

 

no, i dont do it, im shure in summer 2016 i have a chance that all this bugs are gone ... o_O

Edited August 4, 2015 by WAL73R

[SurryCurry]

I'm just shaking my head, personally, given that some of us have been waiting for this kind of S#&$ to go down for so long, I was expecting waterfalls of, like, sources and codex entries and people going "SEE!? SEE! THIS IS IT."

 

Er - jokes aside, there are a lot of assumptions that I thought people would catch on to immediately, but haven't. For example, quite a few people were questioning how Natah managed to use the Tenno to orchestrate the fall of the Orokin Empire; Pizzarugi stated that it was traditional infiltration, but I find it unlikely - it's too crude and human, which the Sentient race is undoubtedly not.

 

I'm detecting a large wall of text heading your way. It's conjecture. TL;DR below.

 

 

Yes, thats what I think as well. The Sentients were mentioned as having a habit of turning Orokin weaponry back at them, which is why Orokin used Tenno to fight against them. It seems Tenno were turned as well. I just wonder how?

 

The answer to Skimmer's question as to "how" is in their own post. The Sentients subverted Orokin weaponry, forcing them to return to zero-point technology (blades, guns with bullets, etc.) and forced them to create the Warframes and institute the Tenno soldiers. I assume that the use of the Void to create the frames came from the logic of including "the flaw" - The Void is poisonous to the Sentients.

 

However, and this is just speculation, I believe the Orokin Empire put too much faith in the Tenno. The Sentients would eventually subvert them in the same way they subverted the rest of their technology - which implies that they have a more direct relationship with both technological and organic material, either absorbing or rapidly adapting to threats as time goes on, similar to the Borg from Star Trek.

 

Thus making the question of how Natah used the Tenno to finish off the Orokin Empire a bit less mysterious. If this doesn't convince you, there's one more thing I think might.

 

The Stalker. Being a lower guardian, it's logical to assume that they weren't present on the battlefield for very long, if at all. The Stalker would never be close enough to the Sentients to be subverted. And since he wasn't, he was present to witness the massacre caused by the Tenno - the empire's supposed heroes. And he's never lived let them live down the betrayal - he's hunted us, hunted for us rather, ever since.

 

Which brings me to why everything went the way it did. If the Sentients were the ones who turned the Tenno loose on the Orokin Empire - why did they decide to go that route? Why not destroy the Tenno outright and gun for the Orokin? The only logical point is that before they subverted the Tenno, they were losing the Old War and moreover, they were unable to directly confront the Empire. So, when they managed to grab hold of the Tenno, they used them the only way they could - to destroy the Empire from within.

 

The Sentients orchestrated the Red Wedding, in other words - the subverted Tenno snapped and massacred the core figures and high citizens of the Empire all across the system at the presumed "end" of the Old War. But for there to be celebration, the Sentients would have to be "gone." So, it falls to reason that the Sentients - either dying enmasse already or strategically committing suicide - sealed themselves away to await a time when the Empire ceased to exist.

 

Which leaves their motive. Right now, all I can think of is that they were salty that the Orokin treated them as inferior machines, meant only to terraform and expand their empire. Also, mentioned in the Crewman synthesis lore, there was talk of "Seven Principles," which I assume are an expanded-upon version of the many Laws of Robotics, Asimov's and the EPRSC/AHRC's especially, tailored to the Orokin Era and serving as their core laws. This would fuel animosity towards the Sentient race, seeing as they were intended to be "machines" thrown away once their work was done, and fuel a war to dispose of them.

 

tl;dr: I can go on and on about my many theories and speculations regarding all of this, but I'm starting to get a headache. The Sentients are the Borg, the Orokin are jackasses, the Tenno were assimilated, and it's all because the Empire wouldn't give the flesh-bots rights.

 

Natah is Spacemama, our Spacemama is the Lotus, and Lotus can't have kids. Oh, and The Stalker is a salty grunt.

Edited August 4, 2015 by SurryCurry