About That Incoming Tentacle Swarm/pilfering Swarm Hyrdoid Nerf.

[AdunSaveMe]

Yes I read what everyone was saying now I just hope they are correct thank you.

All ya had to do was read the comment on it properly.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

Hydroid + Saryn or Mesa. Spam tentacles to catch as many guys as possible, then let a nuke frame blow them away.

So now we are encouraging nukers again? lol. This change will discourage tentacle swarm users from using tentacle swarm with piflering swarm anyway so if what everyone has been saying is true hydroid tentacle swarm players will just nuke and use normal tentacle swarm "without the added benefit of pilfierning swarm" or they can still use pilfering swarm but as renegade suggested with range build making hydroid a really really team reliant frame :/

[Judgebanks]

Are

They

Fixing

The

Massive

Frame

Loss?

 

 

Because I bet they won't, only nerf what circumvents month long grinds, right?

 

 

How about a loot/progression system that isn't RNG based?

[Cool3303]

*Thinks about making a thread with righteous fury about the upcoming nerf*

*Sees thread in General Discussion*

*Thread is written by someone that somehow completely missunderstood everything and whines about unrelated things with horrible formatting ontop

and first page already filled with "wtf" responses*

Just great -__-

 

If you want to know what's so wrong with the change:

 

"https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/502088-hydroid-quality-of-life-adjustments/#entry5635620"
The next PC Hotfix will have something to speak to this directly: with Pilfering Swarm equipped, enemies won't need to be killed by the tentacles to have an added drop chance. Simply dying on the tentacle will be enough to trigger Pilfering Swarm. However, we will also be removing Power Strength mods affecting Pilfering Swarm to balance this change.
 

That is a HORRIBLE change, a huge nerf. Aside from the huge dropchance reduction (150%) and removing the combo with equinox ...

I mean aside from being a 3th of the original droprate this change wont fix anything to why hydroids tentacles are useless without the excessive dropchance.Almost no buffs work on them.They have rather low basedamage (finisher damage though).They pop up wherever they want and dont hit enemies reliably.

Even if this would get fixed you can't use speednova (which is the most important to speedup kills) because 60% of the enemies would still die by single enemies exploding because of the Molecular Prime.

Also Hydroids drops are by no way broken.
During the quadruple ressources weekend the consensus in my clan was that Hydroid had no feasible advantage over mesa which has much faster clearing. Obviously Equinox tipped the balance a little bit but such a nerf is uncalled for.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Cool3303

[Renegade343]

But even with power range the number of tentacles are just randomly spread out and since they don't get increased its still so random therefore not that effective it might be "a good supposed team tactic for support" where team mates are supposed to lay support fire but I doubt that they would even bother trying to shoot the wildly rag dolled enemies with tentacles in random spawn logic.

But it will allow for more enemies to get hit and/or killed by the tentacles, as they have a larger chance of spreading out, instead of a few of them clumping together and reducing efficiency overall. 

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

All ya had to do was read the comment on it properly.

 

Yes but here's the thing I realized as well

 

"Thing is though now it won't be advisable to use the power killing tentacle build along with tentacle swarm so yes I had valid reasons to be concerned as power strength tentacle build will not be of use with the incoming change. Now I have to make 2 separate builds for tentacle swarm and the non power strength affected pilfering swarm so my concern is valid."

[muzashi1963]

My Pirate Captain, my poor tentacled swarm.

A sad and wet-eyed Fair Winds I bid thee

Alas and alack, ye did not conform

To thy maker's Year of Quality.

 

In the locker shall ye be confined.

Ne'er to see the light of play

To gather the dust of dried up brine.

And ponder the Warframe way.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

Are

They

Fixing

The

Massive

Frame

Loss?

 

 

Because I bet they won't, only nerf what circumvents month long grinds, right?

 

 

How about a loot/progression system that isn't RNG based?

this.

[Edgarhighman]

DE is going to nerf the farm not the damage.

Why? DE is all about castration. Always something good that has to die. I dont even hyrdroid and I'm like, ... Not another nerf... People screaming Nerf for Loki, saryn, rhino, mesa, mirage, excal, hydroid... IT IS NOT NORMAL for a  person to "ask" for a nerf in a PVE game. Politics do not belong here. IT IS NOT NORMAL! Let alone, usually lower quality F2P's bugs like this are given the VALID TERM of "OP" because its usally 1000% to 9999% OP from an unintentional code... But for warframe people call something thats like 50% stronger than expected "gamebreakingly OP" and DE keeps turning good things bad, convoluting things to make up for this or that (something that could have been a simple fix becomes a mass of "DE Logic" as players call it EXAMPLE: DE removed 2 slots when all skills were given... then they went through this Big overpriced hullabaloo to give one slot which you can't even implement right without 4 additional formas to a MAXED MOD BUILD- when they should have simply just RETURNED the 2 slots that were removed. Tiresome.)

Edited August 6, 2015 by Edgarhighman

[DiabolicalHamSandwich]

So nerf something that helped bypass a lot of RNG aspects? lord....

[vaugahn]

IT IS NOT NORMAL for a  person to "ask" for a nerf in a PVE game.

 

"PvE" is not an excuse to never nerf anything. Balance applies whether you're fighting people or AI, and to balance a game things will occasionally have to get nerfed. That's just how it is.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

But it will allow for more enemies to get hit and/or killed by the tentacles, as they have a larger chance of spreading out, instead of a few of them clumping together and reducing efficiency overall. 

Thing is as a Hyrdoid user I use him for different purposes I have 3 builds for him a general tidal impunity short duration offensive build which will obviously not be affected. A tentacle swarm water barrage piflering swarm build all offensive build (which will be the one that gets affected, and a CC tidal impunity undertow augment healer build full support build.

 

The change not only affects tentacle swarm in my case but also the other offensive abilities I use in hydroid cause unlike other press to 4 spam players i actually use all of his offensive skills and combo them also it will mean i need 4 loadout slots instead of the standard 3 for hydroid.

 

If you want to know what's so wrong with the change:

 

"https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/502088-hydroid-quality-of-life-adjustments/#entry5635620"

The next PC Hotfix will have something to speak to this directly: with Pilfering Swarm equipped, enemies won't need to be killed by the tentacles to have an added drop chance. Simply dying on the tentacle will be enough to trigger Pilfering Swarm. However, we will also be removing Power Strength mods affecting Pilfering Swarm to balance this change.

 

That is a HORRIBLE change, a huge nerf. Aside from the huge dropchance reduction (150%) and removing the combo with equinox ...

I mean aside from being a 3th of the original droprate this change wont fix anything to why hydroids tentacles are useless without the excessive dropchance.Almost no buffs work on them.They have rather low basedamage (finisher damage though).They pop up wherever they want and dont hit enemies reliably.

Even if this would get fixed you can't use speednova (which is the most important to speedup kills) because 60% of the enemies would still die by single enemies exploding because of the Molecular Prime.

Also Hydroids drops are by no way broken.

During the quadruple ressources weekend the consensus in my clan was that Hydroid had no feasible advantage over mesa which has much faster clearing. Obviously Equinox tipped the balance a little bit but such a nerf is uncalled for.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

My Pirate Captain, my poor tentacled swarm.

A sad and wet-eyed Fair Winds I bid thee

Alas and alack, ye did not conform

To thy maker's Year of Quality.

 

In the locker shall ye be confined.

Ne'er to see the light of play

To gather the dust of dried up brine.

And ponder the Warframe way.

Yes poor hydroid will now be sinking back to davey jones locker room for all eternity thanks to one slight change. :(

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

Welp, there goes my usual solo nano spore farming with Hydroid. Gotta use BoneassNekros when that nerf comes.

 yep lol

[Renegade343]

Thing is as a Hyrdoid user I use him for different purposes I have 3 builds for him a general tidal impunity short duration offensive build which will obviously not be affected. A tentacle swarm water barrage piflering swarm build all offensive build (which will be the one that gets affected, and a CC tidal impunity undertow augment healer build full support build.

Yes, I am very well aware things will be affected, because when things change, other related things can be changed as well. But think of this for your second build: You do not need as much Power Strength and can use a bit more Power Range or Duration, either to have a wider area to capture enemies or lengthen the duration of the tentacles so that more enemies can be trapped overall. 

 

I know it would mean your build would need to be remade, and I know it is difficult to do so, but unless there is a valid reason to refute the change, the change is going to happen. 

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

Why? DE is all about castration. Always something good that has to die. I dont even hyrdroid and I'm like, ... Not another nerf... People screaming Nerf for Loki, saryn, rhino, mesa, mirage, excal, hydroid... IT IS NOT NORMAL for a  person to "ask" for a nerf in a PVE game. Politics do not belong here. IT IS NOT NORMAL! Let alone, usually lower quality F2P's bugs like this are given the VALID TERM of "OP" because its usally 1000% to 9999% OP from an unintentional code... But for warframe people call something thats like 50% stronger than expected "gamebreakingly OP" and DE keeps turning good things bad, convoluting things to make up for this or that (something that could have been a simple fix becomes a mass of "DE Logic" as players call it EXAMPLE: DE removed 2 slots when all skills were given... then they went through this Big overpriced hullabaloo to give one slot which you can't even implement right without 4 additional formas to a MAXED MOD BUILD- when they should have simply just RETURNED the 2 slots that were removed. Tiresome.)

^This guy gets it.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

Yes, I am very well aware things will be affected, because when things change, other related things can be changed as well. But think of this for your second build: You do not need as much Power Strength and can use a bit more Power Range or Duration, either to have a wider area to capture enemies or lengthen the duration of the tentacles so that more enemies can be trapped overall. 

 

I know it would mean your build would need to be remade, and I know it is difficult to do so, but unless there is a valid reason to refute the change, the change is going to happen. 

Okay I can easily change my mod build to cope with the new change but explain to me this why do I even have to do so? Why do I have to change my builds because of one slight nerf change to an augment with actually has less perceived benefits its more of an inconvenience for the supposed benefits it provides since it is marketed as a quality of life change.

[SgtFlex]

Okay, so why do you have to change builds? Why not a max power strength tentacle build? I use the same, and with pilfering swarm, it means your allies dont even have to kill whatever is in the tentacles

 

Or, just no power strength, and whatever isn't killed by the tentacles, is killed by your teammates or you.

 

Im not understanding your point about changing builds, and I just see spam posts about you agreeing with other people.

 

The same builds still serve the same purpose. The fact that tentacle swarm already ignores armor and does massive damage when max'd on power strength isn't being changed at all.

Edited August 6, 2015 by SgtFlex

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

So nerf something that helped bypass a lot of RNG aspects? lord....

I'm afraid so and hydroid gets the short end of the stick if DE decides to nerf every efficient farming frame what would even be the point of farming with the ridiculous grind and time investment needed cause of RNG aspects of the game. Better watch out nekros players your frame might be next haha.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

Okay, so why do you have to change builds? Why not a max power strength tentacle build? I use the same, and with pilfering swarm, it means your allies dont even have to kill whatever is in the tentacles

 

Or, just no power strength, and whatever isn't killed by the tentacles, is killed by your teammates or you.

 

Im not understanding your point about changing builds, and I just see spam posts about you agreeing with other people.

 

The same builds still serve the same purpose. The fact that tentacle swarm already ignores armor and does massive damage when max'd on power strength isn't being changed at all.

Well you do have a point I can just ignore the whole change thing and not be bothered by it but we still have to test it out if it will actually work the way you described it as majority of the players here after hearing the upcoming change will probably just drop their tentacle swarm strength builds. We shall have to test it out if it works then good if not then I fear and feel sorry for hydroid for getting the short end of the stick.

[Renegade343]

Okay I can easily change my mod build to cope with the new change but explain to me this why do I even have to do so? 

I am just suggesting one way, so that it would still emulate the increased drops from Pilfering Swarm Power Strength builds while opening up other abilities. You can not change your build, and continue using it as it is. This is really up to you. 

 

Why do I have to change my builds because of one slight nerf change to an augment with actually has less perceived benefits its more of an inconvenience for the supposed benefits it provides since it is marketed as a quality of life change.

It goes along the line of: 

 

Easier way to obtain extra loot, so to balance that out, Pilfering Swarm is not affected by Power Strength. Or, increasing the frequency of extra drops while decreasing the quantity of extra drops to (in hopes of) keeping the mod functionally the same, but with added team benefits so that other players can help out. 

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

I am just suggesting one way, so that it would still emulate the increased drops from Pilfering Swarm Power Strength builds while opening up other abilities. You can not change your build, and continue using it as it is. This is really up to you. 

 

It goes along the line of: 

 

Easier way to obtain extra loot, so to balance that out, Pilfering Swarm is not affected by Power Strength. Or, increasing the frequency of extra drops while decreasing the quantity of extra drops to (in hopes of) keeping the mod functionally the same, but with added team benefits so that other players can help out. 

Okay your points are valid but again we will have to wait and see I just hope the change is not that drastic.

[--.B.--HARDCOREDAVE-]

DE if you really want to fix and balance some "QUALITY OF LIFE" on frames then go revisit mag after nerfing G pull rework or BUFF HER OTHER ABILITIES THEN DON'T KEEP NERFING ALREADY BALANCED FRAMES. Rework bullet attractor so that it can be recast to a maximum of 4 instances. Rework CRUSH because its the most underwhelming ultimate both visually and effectiveness wise it only becomes useful if we waste a slot an fracturing crush for a effect that "should have been innate to crush the stagger and armor reduction in the first place it should have same treatment as avalanche" and VISUAL REWORK FOR CRUSH because it really doesn't feel like i'm crushing enemies it looks so lackluster.

[Rhett]

I posted in the feedback thread, but TL;DR... people are already complaining about increasing the grind, and this seems like a knee-jerk reaction to something that's existed for (months?), just because of one tileset that got updated with new enemies that seem to have different loot-dropping mechanics. This is indirectly increasing the grind.

 

I like the change with teammates killing on tentacles, but nerfing Pilfering Swarm is not helping. Nerf/look over Ophelia/Uranus instead, please.

[Tesseract7777]

I think eventually you guys will come to the realization, that this is not actually a nerf. 

 

 

Stop hyperventilating, and think for a second about what this means. It means you no longer have to rely on the tentacles actually being the thing to kill the enemy, just die while on them. This doesn't just encourage team play. It means Hydroid's tentacles can get way more kills at a way faster rate because the entire squad can just unload on them. I think this means that you are going to find overall that the loot drops are not nerfed. 

 

Also this doesn't break the Equinox combo because Tentacle Swarm itself is not affected... just Pilfering Swarm. Equinox can still help hydroid kill stuff faster, which means more loot drops because more enemies killed on the tentacles quicker. 

 

It also is a buff because now Pilfering Swarm scales better than before. Before it was only effective as long as Hydroid's power strength was still enough to quickly kill the enemies. Once that scaling falls off, it's not useful anymore. With this change it can scale as long as the squad can still kill enemies quickly. That is a huge buff for Hydroid end game potential! 

 

I think people are really misinterpreting what's going on here. This change is not just a tweak to encourage team play... it's a Hydroid buff. And you guys are calling it a nerf... it's just amazing to me how people can get it so wrong... 

 

I think some of ya'll just want to be bad, because you can't stand change in any form even though you are playing a beta game.