A Mesa Ultimate Rework That Satisfies Everyone

[(PSN)deathfrombelow5]

So one topic of debate in warframe, as many of you know, covers a possible rework of mesa's ult. On one hand, you don't want to nerf the ability to the ground, and on the other, Mesa's ult is currently a bit Overpowered and (IMO) a bit boring. 

 

So the question is: How do we change the ability so that it is not the everyone-go-afk skill that it is now, but still keep the spirit and power of the ability?

 

My suggestion is similar to exalted blade, in that it involves you activating a state in which you use the warframe's built in weapons. I will write a summary at the bottom. Accompanying each change will be an analysis of the pros and cons that go along with each change.

 

First Change: Mesa is no longer stationary during pacemaker.

Pros: This change will allow Mesa to move around the map and engage targets more fluidly. It will also encourage players to move around the map, instead of camping in the same place. This will also allow pacemaker to be more useful during missions that require more mobility. 

Cons: If this change is implemented on its own, Mesa could be even more overpowered than she is now. It would be a bad Idea to implement this on its own. This change will also take away the downside of immobility during use. This will make Mesa less at risk while using Peacemaker. 

 

Second Change: Mesa's Peacemakers do not autotarget enemies.

Pros: This will require skill in order to use this ability to its full potential, and will eliminate the AFK enabling nature of the ability. (Additional synergy with other changes further down).

Cons: This may remove some of the potency that Peacemaker currently has.

 

Third Change: Mesa's Peacemakers are affected by the perks of your secondary weapon(s), similar to Excal's ult.

Pros: This will increase the power of the Ult, and give it a range of elements.

Cons: This might make the ability a bit too powerful. Changes may be needed to keep this ability within the bounds of reason.

 

Fourth Change: A headshot will cause a small explosion. The damage done by the explosion is relatively small, and based only on power-strength mods. Critical headshots will create a Nova explosion. A nova explosion (just a placeholder name) will do extra damage, and any enemies killed by it will explode with the same damage as a headshot explosion. The damage on the normal headshot should oneshot enemies up to level 15 (No PSTR Mods), and explode in a 2-3m radius. The Nova should kill enemies up to level 30, and explodes in a 5-8m radius. 

Pros: This will give peacemaker some crowd control, which it will need without the auto aim. The Nova explosion can clear out large crowds, and can only chain once, ensuring that it isn't too powerful. 

Cons: Similar to the third change, this may be a bit too powerful. Some tweaking may be needed in order to keep any semblance of balance on this ability. 

 

Summary: Mesa's ult will no longer render her stationary, and will not have aimbot functionality. It will take on the perks of your secondary, and cause small explosions on a normal headshot. On a larger headshot, a large explosion will take place, an explosion which can chain once. 

 

Opinions?

[Brandr_]

Instead o a headshot, why not make them just explode on death?

 

Make her movement slow, that way she can't zip around like a maniac

 

Make her only auto target when you use Iron sights, when hip firing she'll just fire towards the reticle, but sighted she auto targets in front of her

[-Mandachordian-Tenno-]

most players can't aim fo' shi-.

but +1

i'd like to point out that when this proposed change especially the Nova Explosion only does one chain, in fact, it's creeping over Nova Nova's Ultimate.
we'll get people to compare them even more. now, would you want that?

[(PSN)deathfrombelow5]

Instead o a headshot, why not make them just explode on death?

 

Make her movement slow, that way she can't zip around like a maniac

 

Make her only auto target when you use Iron sights, when hip firing she'll just fire towards the reticle, but sighted she auto targets in front of her

Headshot explosion forces players to aim and use skill instead of blindly firing. This will prevent the ability from becoming too op. 

 

most players can't aim fo' shi-.

but +1

i'd like to point out that when this proposed change especially the Nova Explosion only does one chain, in fact, it's creeping over Nova Nova's Ultimate.

we'll get people to compare them even more. now, would you want that?

I do think the explosions might be a bit overpowered, but hear me out. 

 

With molecular prime, explosions can chain infinitely. Take out one enemy, kill 20. With Mesa's new ult, you can only kill 3 rows of enemies (at most). 2 with the initial explosion, and one with the secondary. Its power is (overall) a bit limited.

One good change would be to make the nova explosion just bigger, and remove chaining, but I am partial to the chaining. 

Edited August 13, 2015 by (PS4)deathfrombelow5

[FelisImpurrator]

I prefer having a massive headshot multiplier instead of the explosion... and for crowd control, a slow applied to all enemies in a cone extending forward from Mesa, possibly affected by range with a MINIMUM range. That way you can actually line up heads, even if enemies are running around at high speed.

I prefer having a massive headshot multiplier instead of the explosion... and for crowd control, a slow applied to all enemies in a cone extending forward from Mesa, possibly affected by range with a MINIMUM range. That way you can actually line up heads, even if enemies are running around at high speed.

[-Mandachordian-Tenno-]

would be funny if Peacemaker with these changes will have a screen effect like when you are using synthesis scanners with all the xray goggles but instead of (orange/green scannables) they all turn to whatever energy color you are using.

 

or you know make this thing stationary again and then add the pseudo-first-person Synth Codex Effect.

Edited August 13, 2015 by JamieSpyder

[Volinus7]

Mesa aka Hitscan Excal

[(PSN)Crimson_Judgment]

This seems to be the general idea on what to make this ability I personally think her current 4 isn't as bad as people say but I wouldn't mind it being like exalted blade

I would like to suggest it scale off primary weapons however

It wouldn't make much sense but pistol mods are kinda OP (Hornet strike)

Edited August 13, 2015 by (PS4)Crimson_Judgment

[blazinvire]

Peacemaker was sort of defined by the lack of mobility and the superhuman reflexes -Mesa herself would be 1000x better than any player at shooting things, which is what the auto-aiming was all about.

 

I think it should be revamped in a manner similar to a game I played called Chaos Legion: there was a character called Arcia who was guns akimbo and could shoot like crazy.  When you were playing her, you basically had to face her in a direction and mash the trigger button, and it'd auto-aim at everything in that direction, you couldn't move very fast with your guns at the ready but you had a variety of dodge rolls to get out the way of things.

With your guns out, you could also hold the trigger down where it'd zoom in and provide crosshairs, and fire constantly like a machinegun at the crosshairs with no auto-aim.

 

If we were to Warframe that idea, Mesa would have a massive auto-aim cone in the direction she's facing, and when you zoom in that cone would shrink to the size of the crosshairs.

You'd be reduced to a nice walking speed while it's in effect, but zooming in would pin you in place.

 

But it needs something a little more supernatural/gunkata/space ninja; maybe if it was kind of like a melee weapon where you can parry things, but she'd be dodging the bullets instead of blocking them, and melee combos would be trick shots where bullets bounce or you shoot weapons out of hands and such.

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

You can already move during peacemaker it's just a slow walk while holding the power button. I'm ok with speedy peacemaker.

I don't really care about the second.

So we'll have permanent crit hitting, multishot, uber damage regulaters. Not any more op than Excalibur.

It has a 50% crit chance (crit is the bulk of her damage, it's pretty weak, going to 1000 about at max strenght but no one even goes there because they need efficiency), one mod and every headshot Nova explodes.

Also what would be the drain? Currently it's 15 a sec.

[HunRii]

Leaving peacemaker alone is satisfying enough.  Why change what isn't broken?  It's not an OP ability that goes through walls.  It literally is fine just as it is.  There aren't enough final abilities as well thought out and implemented like it.  it may not be the most interactive, but it is effective.

 

If you don't like it, choose another frame to play.  There are many other options to choose from.

[Temfist]

well, I actually DO like the idea of an AIMBOT behavior for Peacemakers, which would be much different then the current one (It'd be similar to how Nisha's Showdown Action Skill works in Borderlands the Pre-Sequel), but I like your other suggestions for the most part.

 

Thing is, I think she needs more then a tweak on her Peacemakers, to be honest. I'd like her AND Excalibur to have some passive traits that make them better at doing their thang (I'll have to comeback to you with what I feel some good passives for them would be).

[HardcoreSalmon]

This won't please the Draco farmers so not everyone.

 

I'd welcome a change like this, I'd rather run around shooting the regulators myself then let an aimbot shoot for me. And no matter how much damage that new version of the ultimate would do, it wouldn't be as overpowered as it is now because you would actually have to play the game.

[viamont]

Just make mesas ulti like Dantes Million Dollars special from MVC3, she becomes stationary but uses the cross to shoot like a maniac for a set duration of time allowing her to aim, will give her a focused point of atack while keeping the cool idea of "desperado" maniac shooting machine while preventing her from just killing everything without even trying

 

[Merrexz]

While my game experience is very limited, Mesa is currently my favourite frame because of her run-and-gun mobility. While her 4 is very cool, it is also not very challenging at all - indeed, I feel it is a negative game experience because it completely removes player input from the equation. Currently, I employ it only to clear waves quickly when farming components, and as a 'get out of jail free-card' to enable reckless gameplay WAY beyond my current equipment options.

Making her 4 a gun Excalibur equivalent would IMO be brilliant, that is, allow her to retain mobility but remove aimbot. Possibly add damage scaling based on equipped gear, though I'm way too inexperienced to comment on that particular subject. It would reinforce her identity as a run-and-gun frame and add to the gameplay.

Way more rewarding than simply looking for the best spot to deploy, press 4, soak energy globes and repeat, even if the gun-kata cutscene is pretty sweet.

[(PSN)Crimson_Judgment]

well, I actually DO like the idea of an AIMBOT behavior for Peacemakers, which would be much different then the current one (It'd be similar to how Nisha's Showdown Action Skill works in Borderlands the Pre-Sequel), but I like your other suggestions for the most part.

Thing is, I think she needs more then a tweak on her Peacemakers, to be honest. I'd like her AND Excalibur to have some passive traits that make them better at doing their thang (I'll have to comeback to you with what I feel some good passives for them would be).

I could be wrong but don't both frames already have passives I think Excalibur does something when only melee is equipped and Mesa has a plethora of passives

Such as more health with no melee equipped

Faster reload on single pistols

Faster fire rate on dual pistols

(Or vice versa can't remember)

[SteaKnight-X]

So it would be actually activating her peacemakerform, right?
I would like that, since it would finally make the rage calm down.
But, I don'nt know if DE is goin to make something like that after the Excal rework.

Edited August 14, 2015 by SteaKnight-X

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Leaving peacemaker alone is satisfying enough.  Why change what isn't broken?  It's not an OP ability that goes through walls.  It literally is fine just as it is.  There aren't enough final abilities as well thought out and implemented like it.  it may not be the most interactive, but it is effective.

 

If you don't like it, choose another frame to play.  There are many other options to choose from.

 

The fastest way to get XP is to stand in one place for extended periods of time and hold a button down.

 

Peacemaker actively incentivizes standing in one place for extended periods of time and holding a button down.

 

Peacemaker rewards players for not actually playing the game.

 

I'm not sure how you possibly couldn't see a problem with that.

[Empiren]

This only brings more problems to mesa.

 

 

Yeah, you'll get the new players to stop complaining about the "aimbot" nature, but at the same time you'll make mesa viable for endgame, making the older playerbase upset that mesa is getting this major buff.

 

It's only a matter of time that you'll move on to Saryn's miasma, volt's overload, mag, frost, etc. etc.

Like i've said before: Mesa is fine, what people are complaining about is not the actual mechanics but how it looks.

[Hammahness808]

I haven't gotten to play as Mesa personally yet but, if I could suggest a few ideas.

 

1. Make it just a cone range like Mag's pull and make it so it can't shoot through allies. This should reduce the ability from being over powered when you're camping hardcore with a team and normally allowed to shoot through them. Also require more input than clicking.

 

2. Keep the auto-aim but  reduce it's lock on to just a few meters, so you still have to aim at the actual enemies and takes a lot more input. A lot less OP by reducing how fast you can snap to targets.

 

3. Change it to a duration based skill. Somewhere along the lines of 6-8 seconds, like the Lawbringer in Borderlands the presequel.

[Thumper3]

The fastest way to get XP is to stand in one place for extended periods of time and hold a button down.

 

Peacemaker actively incentivizes standing in one place for extended periods of time and holding a button down.

 

Peacemaker rewards players for not actually playing the game.

 

I'm not sure how you possibly couldn't see a problem with that.

 

Even if I agreed with the first three point (which I don't, unless you are talking about a defense mission with #1 and #2) the easy answer to your 'conclusion' is this.

 

It's a PvE game........if Tommy No Skill wants to mash a button and giggle at the screen instead of playing Mesa the right way......how is that hurting YOU?  How is Excalibur EBing through levels leaving nothing but bodies behind for the rest of the squad "ok"?  Because they have to move the mouse for tracking a few times?  That's enough?

 

 

The stupidest way to play Mesa is to stand in one place and mash PM, you can't solo that way even at mid level and high level your squad should be spending all their time keeping you from dying....not yawning.  If someone wants to play that way, let them, go play you're own way.

 

It's not an OP power, it's not as awesome as people want to make it be, and I can not fathom why there are so many tears about it.

 

 

At least OP has some constructive options to BUFF Peacemaker which is what it really needs, not nerfs.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

It's a PvE game........if Tommy No Skill wants to mash a button and giggle at the screen instead of playing Mesa the right way......how is that hurting YOU?

 

It's hurting me because they're preventing me from killing enemies and thus making the game less fun, but there are measures I can take to avoid them. The main adverse effects Peacemaker has involve the people who use it. They don't have to actually play the game to do well. They stand in one spot and hold a button down, and get rewarded for doing so more heavily than if they actually ran around shooting at things.

 

Excalibur EBing through levels leaving nothing but bodies behind for the rest of the squad "ok"?  Because they have to move the mouse for tracking a few times?  That's enough?

 

EB is another problem entirely, more one that has to do with the game's difficulty and challenge. EB is actually pretty poorly designed as well, since it's not really even a melee ability.

 

The stupidest way to play Mesa is to stand in one place and mash PM, you can't solo that way even at mid level and high level your squad should be spending all their time keeping you from dying....not yawning.  If someone wants to play that way, let them, go play you're own way.

 

The level at which this happens is not the level at which Peacemaker causes problems. As previously stated, the fastest way to gain XP is to stand in one spot and hold a button down, not actually playing the game. Peacemaker allows players to not have to work for their rewards.

 

It's not an OP power, it's not as awesome as people want to make it be, and I can not fathom why there are so many tears about it.

 

The fastest way to get XP is to stand in one place for extended periods of time and hold a button down.

 

Peacemaker actively incentivizes standing in one place for extended periods of time and holding a button down.

 

Peacemaker rewards players for not actually playing the game.

 

That's why.

 

At least OP has some constructive options to BUFF Peacemaker which is what it really needs, not nerfs.

 

Peacemaker should indeed be changed to make it viable at high levels, but also needs to be changed so it no longer rewards players for not actually playing the game. Does it need a nerf? Certainly not. It needs a rework.

[SteaKnight-X]

A suggestion If you allow me?

Could aiming in this form make her temporaly(as long as she aims) stationary, highlighting enemies around her and increasing her accuracy?

Something like sacrifising mobility for better aim.

You still would need to aim and shoot, but with much better accuracy + highlighted enemies.
 

We could tweak the drain so still nothing you could do all day long. (Like consume energy per shot while stationary on top of the energy per sec drain)

And may be only apply the secondary weapon mods while aiming?

Since I think that it would be to strong without the extra drain^^

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

NO, don't tie it to her secondary. Give them their own stats and a base damage of 2k a shot.  Give them infinite ammo (never need to reload), no recoil, and life steal.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

They need to make the affinity bar bigger and full of flashy number porn to remind that affinity is shared, or get rid of the ego board at the end of the match that reminds everyone who hogged all the kills, or just ramp the heck out of Draco and Senchura so ultimates are a drowning man's desperate flails to remain afloat. Because as it is... its really boring when a Mesa is around through waves 1-5 plain and simple when trying to farm some xp or credits.

Edited August 14, 2015 by (PS4)FriendSharkey