Have You Ever Played With A Mesa You Didn't Hate?

[Invalid_Infinity]

Then get a mesa

I refuse to be something that I disapprove of.

[Plorf]

Could probably count on my fingers the amount of times I've seen someone not just use Peacemaker constantly. Bonus points for the Mesa who was doing a low-level mobile defense alert and constantly had an energy pad and ult active for the entire duration of the mission.

 

Same goes for Excalibur for the most part, very rarely do I see someone who isn't in Exalted Blade for the entire mission. People blame the players but there's clearly a different problem here...

[Daaaddy]

Could probably count on my fingers the amount of times I've seen someone not just use Peacemaker constantly. Bonus points for the Mesa who was doing a low-level mobile defense alert and constantly had an energy pad and ult active for the entire duration of the mission.

 

Same goes for Excalibur for the most part, very rarely do I see someone who isn't in Exalted Blade for the entire mission. People blame the players but there's clearly a different problem here...

 

you speak the truth buddy. its game design. Powers aside, most frames are just that.

 

Don't hate the frame. Hate the one who prgrams the frames that way.

[weak_man_small_hands]

You clearly haven't met me. Duration Mesa is best Mesa.

[Daaaddy]

We should really all start using Mesas. Why hate when you can join the movement

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

We should really all start using Mesas. Why hate when you can join the movement

 

Because we want to actually have fun, and not act like we are master race because we can hold R2.

[Daaaddy]

Because we want to actually have fun, and not act like we are master race because we can hold R2.

 

on the topic of fun. fun means different things to different people.

 

1. kill stealing might be fun to some or

2. it could be hogging the damage boards or 

3. it could be feeling better than the rest of the people they play with or

4. being the "master" race

 

So while we are on the topic on "Mesa is killing the fun for you", maybe you might also want to consider you killing the fun for other people. 

[DxAdder]

Because we want to actually have fun, and not act like we are master race because we can hold R2.

 

Odd I thought the master race was Loki hiding behind his perm-cloak.

[(PSN)Fen_Integrum]

on the topic of fun. fun means different things to different people.

 

1. kill stealing might be fun to some or

2. it could be hogging the damage boards or 

3. it could be feeling better than the rest of the people they play with or

4. being the "master" race

 

So while we are on the topic on "Mesa is killing the fun for you", maybe you might also want to consider you killing the fun for other people. 

 

Except that my kind of fun bolsters skill, teamwork, and a deep understanding of the game. 

 

Your points only support the fact that a frame is built poorly, and any noob without skill can get in there and hold R2.

 

I mean...seriously. You used Kill stealing as an argument on behalf of Mesa. Congratulations! You can steal peoples kills by holding R2! Just not when skill comes into it. 

 

This doesnt make them good. This doesnt make them "master race".

 

This only gives them a rush from feeling competent, when in fact they arent, and afterward, the game will grow tedious for them. 

I'm not ruining fun for anyone. Mesa R2 spammers are ruining it for themselves, and dont even know it.

 

All I am doing is explaining the dissatisfaction they will feel when using any other frame, and why they tend to walk away from the game.

 

If I am preventing people from having fun, when that fun is at the expense of the fun of the rest of the squad, then I'm doing a service. 

 

Odd I thought the master race was Loki hiding behind his perm-cloak.

 

Master Race is, from what I've seen, any game exploit that allows noobs to stand beside skilled players and act like they are something special.

Edited September 1, 2015 by (PS4)Fenrushak

[Daaaddy]

Except that my kind of fun bolsters skill, teamwork, and a deep understanding of the game. 

 

Your points only support the fact that a frame is built poorly, and any noob without skill can get in there and hold R2.

 

This doesnt make them good. This doesnt make them "master race".

 

This only gives them a rush from feeling competent, when in fact they arent, and afterward, the game will grow tedious for them. 

I'm not ruining fun for anyone. Mesa R2 spammers are ruining it for themselves, and dont even know it.

 

All I am doing it explaining the dissatisfaction they will feel when using any other frame, and why they tend to walk away from the game.

 

 

Master Race is, from what I've seen, any game exploit that allows noobs to stand beside skilled players and act like they are something special.

 

Exactly my point. I couldn't have said what you said better buddy. This whole thread shouldn't be aimed at players or frames. Players will play what frames are good. Or rather those that are overtly good. 

 

This should really belong in feedback on game balance and development. Oh wait. DE doesn't listen or care:

 

http://www.digitalextremes.com/about (scroll down to the feedback section)

[(PSN)lupowolfen]

Inb4 lock. The mods will make sure we dont get too heated.

[jfhsanseiIII]

I play Mesa all the time and find her much more fun if I don't use the four at all. The only problem I have is too much range on muzzle flash. I've still not found an acceptable range I like. Her four is dull and building for it is a horrible idea if you want to survive. Not to mention I'm sick of explaining how energy vampire works to other Mesa players.

Edited September 1, 2015 by jfhsanseiIII

[Mushen_Namtar]

Master Race is, from what I've seen, any game exploit that allows noobs to stand beside skilled players and act like they are something special.

And you care about it... why, exactly? It doesn't diminish your own skill or its value (although I'm not sure how valuable it is, exactly, to be good at playing video games, but I may be slightly old-fashioned). It simply allows people to lessen the amount of grind they face. 

If I want to have fun, I run spy/capture/quest missions with frames, weapons, and skills I find to be the most amusing, not the most effective, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone. 40+ minute T4 is a rather specific idea of fun, but then again nothing prevents you from playing it without a Peacemaker Mesa. No one is trying to decide for you how you should be playing this game. Neither should you. 

Edited September 1, 2015 by Mushen_Namtar

[Kuestenjung]

Every time I play Mesa I meet one.

[Hatzeputt]

There is no "kill stealing" in this game since we have shared affinity mechanics, the only "kill thiefs" are the guys running far away from the group and outside the radius of shared affinity. Only people without a shred of understanding cry about "kill stealing" in a game like WF. Sure some people venture off to have fun on their own, not caring about shared affinity since they are running with maxed stuff anyways, which is completely fine. Those are also the guys you will NOT see complaining about "kill stealing". However there are plenty of clueless even high MR dudes around that have no idea how the affinity system works and those are the ones mostly worried about "kill stealing".

 

For those unaware how affinity works, I suggest to read the wiki. http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Affinity

 

If you complain about mesa "kill stealing" you might as well complain about saryn, excalibur, ember,tonkor, ogris, torid, quanta, amprex etc  

Also maybe someone did not get the memo, but this is supposedly a co op game, were it is of little importance who personally took the objective, hit the console, captured the target or free the prisoner as long as the objective is completed and that involves kills.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Hatzeputt

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

I dont really care afk mesa or not...as long as they get the job done....

[BloodSage09]

I didn't know people hate mesa :/

[RazrOutlaw]

Guys, remember that when you run a mission you don't have to join randoms, you can always recruit or go solo, so don't complain about a mesa stealing all your kills, you can easily do the mission yourself or recruit for specific frames that you want in your squad, so that solves your KS problems right there, now, if you are going to a T4D, T3D or draco and you are recruiting for a mesa, you are asking for her to steal your kills (same goes if you join a person that is recruiting, it's their party, no one is forcing you to stay if you don't want to play with them), so if you don't want to play with a peacemaker spammer, you don't have to, you have a choice, you can leave and not get penalized, that's one of the beautiful things on this game.

 

Edit: some spelling mistakes, sorry 

Edited September 1, 2015 by RazrOutlaw

[Takushi]

Yup. Mesa is such an afk camping frame, that she makes her squadmates lazy too. 

 

I remember when levels had to be earned in this game.

 

Do you, now?

 

You know... for all your ranting about no-skill tactics, you seem to have missed something to consider.

 

As a baseline, Mastery levels never required skill to earn; they were only (moderately) boosted by the use of the item in question, skillful or otherwise.

 

Not unless you consider "spending time, no matter how much you suck" to be the primary skill factor for "earning" mastery points. The game quite honestly couldn't care less about whether or not you used your current weapon to kill 15 enemies in half a second or whether or not you're constantly scoring headshots. The only thing that matters is the affinity devoted to it, and you can get that by others killing enemies alongside using it. At this point your hissing about skillful gameplay goes out the window, I'm afraid. As does your "bolstering a deep understanding of the game."

 

I'm not sure how long you've been around, as I came around the latter part of closed beta. Shared affinity was very much present as it is today, and as long as you had someone else playing, you could get even the most useless damage 1.0 Ceramic Dagger ranked to 30 for your mastery goodness without using it in the least.

 

I don't know about you, but I'm happy that I don't have to subject myself to the self-imposed torture that is ranking a boring weapon through anything other than shared affinity. Whether or not that's by standing beside a sleepwalking Mesa, spamming grenades and rockets with friends in various missions or simply holstering the undesired weapon and playing any mission with friends or randoms as you use your preferred weapon (which everyone does, intentionally or otherwise), it doesn't matter.

 

If (and only if) you prefer to go through that... well, it would make me question why you play games, for one, but by all means do so. I am, however, not going to be angry at the current system for allowing me to actually play the game to have fun, insteading of focusing the entirety of the gameplay on being an item-processor on low-level missions and being sad not getting mastery levels, items or whathaveyou on higher level missions, which ironically require more attention.

 

With that out of the way, I do realize Peacemaker is quite a... well, boring skill for myself and allies, and while I am in definite support of revamping it, all I can say until it gets changed is that I'm glad I play with friends and not randoms. I wouldn't want to play beside someone taking absolutely all the kills, Mesa or not, but I am very glad that I can get the affinity from someone else's gameplay in many ways as they do mine without self-imposed torture.

 

When the Mastery system actually requires you to perform feats outside of snoozefest tests and endless (skillful or otherwise) grinding, maybe we could talk about using "skill" and "mastery level" in the same sentence with a straight face, because right now it's such a ridiculous idea that it doesn't even relieve my boredom.

The only thing that in fact ever made me walk away from the game besides a lack of content was being an item processor with said subjected torture. That, and players flipping their crap because others play in a certain way.

 

I am not regretting my decision to play almost exclusively with friends and their friends when I read these forums, that's for sure. It's good to be around people with some human standard of empathy when I play. That goes both for uncaring Peacemaker users and the people who'd pick a fight because of it. I don't want either of you in my games, but I realize I reap what I sow if I set it to public.

Edited September 1, 2015 by Takushi

[(XBOX)G R A V O C]

This is coming from a Mesa that people don't hate -

I run two builds for my Mesa -

Build 1: Long duration on both shooting gallery and Shatter Shield, plus Max effeciency and very high power strength for Peacemaker.

Build 2: Long duration for same reasons above, max effeciency, BUT no power stength. Instead, I use range mods to increase shooting gallery affectiveness.

• Also might be good to note that both builds incorporate Stagger Shield Augment mod. This Augment might as well take the place of Shooting Gallery, but I have a build for even more additional stunning ability.

The key here is either build is affective without the use of Peacemaker. Build 1 does a good job at stunning with Stagger Augment, and shooting gallery as is has enough range for close combat situations. Build 2 is full force stun ability, but it lacks the ballistic battery power that Build 1 has.

Players don't mind Peacemaker'ing in moderation. They just don't like press 4 to win Mesa's. I WILL use Peacemaker if things get crazy. I WONT stay in Peacemaker for more than 10-15 seconds though.

Forgot to mention that these hybrid builds require 5 forma (build 1 being the most expensive for mod points).

This is a little off topic from what I was talking about above, but I wanted to address it. Mesa's who go down will go down for two reasons:

Mesa 1: A zero or one forma Mesa who does not know/appreciate the value of Mesa's other 3 abilities. These are your press 4 to win Mesa's. These are also the type of players who will yell at other players for not shrouding them in a perma bubble of protection, or the type of players who get mad that no one is providing them energy.

Mesa 2: These are players like me who have put the time (and forma) in to be able to utilize Mesa's other abilities. If you ever see one of us down, please revive us. This means that we forgot to check out Staggering Shattershields duration, and basically got one shot. Mesa can be immortal if you maintain a strict dicipline of checking your Shattershield. I, however am not the best at maintaining a perma-staggershield, and usually don't notice it is down until I am almost dead.

Edited September 1, 2015 by (XB1)G R A V O C

[Daaaddy]

Keep up the hate guys. Its only been one month for me here.

 

I've already seen arguments on:

 

1. Loki is Master Race

2. Excalibur EB is too Op

a. Excal EB got nerfed

3. Covert Lethality is too Op

a. Covert Lethality got nered and today

4. Mesa is the S#&$ Op

a. I'm waiting for the nerf btw

 

Also in game I've had people ranting at me for:

1. Single handedly completing T4MD because I didnt "stay behind to help with Vor". What? I forgot that to clear T4MD Vor had to die. My bad

2. Triggering the last alarm in some Spy alert mission (when I already cleared ALL the prior hacks single handedly and you only needed 2 to pass). I was even their taxi to a free mod too!

3. Joining a pub T3D as a MR3 (excal) even after I outdamaged the whole group using EB.

 

Yes. I've heard great things about how awesome and close knit this community is and how we all help each other. Been a really great experience so far.

[RazrOutlaw]

Keep up the hate guys. Its only been one month for me here.

 

I've already seen arguments on:

 

1. Loki is Master Race

2. Excalibur EB is too Op

a. Excal EB got nerfed

3. Covert Lethality is too Op

a. Covert Lethality got nered and today

4. Mesa is the S#&$ Op

a. I'm waiting for the nerf btw

 

Also in game I've had people ranting at me for:

1. Single handedly completing T4MD because I didnt "stay behind to help with Vor". What? I forgot that to clear T4MD Vor had to die. My bad

2. Triggering the last alarm in some Spy alert mission (when I already cleared ALL the prior hacks single handedly and you only needed 2 to pass). I was even their taxi to a free mod too!

3. Joining a pub T3D as a MR3 (excal) even after I outdamaged the whole group using EB.

 

Yes. I've heard great things about how awesome and close knit this community is and how we all help each other. Been a really great experience so far.

Sad to see this kind of comments, and I've been seeing a lot like this recently, I must agree on the covert lethality nerf, It wasn't working as it was intended, it was supposed to insta kill everthing you performed a finisher on, not to insta kill everything while being in stealth.

Part of the communitty is hating on mesa, in my opinion, cause draco is making things too easy for newer players and she is the assigned frame for it, because as you said, loki is considered the master race frame, but I don't see everyone crying out nerfs to him, saryn can nuke a room in a single button press on low to mid lvl, ash is the top dps frame with the most damage in the game (can kill level 500+ as long as you are running 4CP), this goes for excalibur as well, they nerfed only some mods on him (syndicate one's should still give the damage, but remove the syndicate effect in my opinion), no one is crying nerfs so desperately for any of this frames as they are for mesa, and as many have guessed, I am a mesa fanboy, she is my main frame and my favourite one, in terms of looks and abilities, I got tired of trying to make people understand she isn't the problem, neither is peacemaker, I know, the ability doesn't require any player skill whatsoever, but neither does miasma, it's just 1 ability, and I can swear that I saw the same people that complained about peacemaker going to draco 1-2 a day, just to clarify, I'm not hating on ash, saryn & neither on loki, I think they are great frames and I love to play with them, saryn & ash are meant to be dps frames, and dps frames are meant to do damage, aswell as mesa, her 4th ability is meant for dps & for defense missions. We just need to end up with the nerf this, nerf that, and take time to enjoy the game, because at the end of the day, this is what warframe is, a game, and if you don't break any rules, you can play it the way you want to.

 

Edit: Spelling mistakes :/

Edited September 1, 2015 by RazrOutlaw

[(PSN)Unonemous]

In pubs? Not very often, but only because they were built for Turret.

 

With my friends? All the time. A friend and I both had duration builds on her once and did a T3 defense with minimal use of Peacemaker. We both had that lovely Shooting Gallery going off all the time, and Shatter Shield actually reflects rockets, so, we didn't even have to worry about the Bombards that much.

 

...

 

Though, I admit, we did a LOT of peacemaker on our last round, because we thought it would look cool standing back to back.

I was not disappointed.

[RazrOutlaw]

In pubs? Not very often, but only because they were built for Turret.

 

With my friends? All the time. A friend and I both had duration builds on her once and did a T3 defense with minimal use of Peacemaker. We both had that lovely Shooting Gallery going off all the time, and Shatter Shield actually reflects rockets, so, we didn't even have to worry about the Bombards that much.

 

...

 

Though, I admit, we did a LOT of peacemaker on our last round, because we thought it would look cool standing back to back.

I was not disappointed.

Did the same thing with a friend of mine, he was running a white and blue mesa, since mine is black and red, we thought that'd give it a little yin yang touch, I must say, It was pretty badass seeing the two mesa shoot at the same time, but it gets a little boring to be sitting on peacemaker all the time.

I must admit that it's a really good ability when playing defense kind of missions, provides a good clear and the impact procs it's really nice as CC

[KIREEK]

Congratulations. You found a way to play with absolutely zero skill. One person wanking their controller, and two holding R2. 

 

Doesnt it get tedious, playing the game in such a way that you could go fifty waves one handed, and not miss a moment of the news?

Everytime i play with skill i leave everyone behind in my dust, this time atleast everyone was doing their share.

It's never boring when the rewards are so good, while it's true we automated the method, it's also true we pay attention to what we were doing, a fire eximus for example can trow the mag away and if we don't act accordingly the mag will be pulling items away from us.

Yes, looks simple enough to the point were you might think we went afk, but that's not the case, we are there, chatting and watching for anything that goes wrong.

It doesn't require skill, but it does require pacience and concentration.