How To Deal With Serration

[(XBOX)LexaHex]

I think Serration should be an innate mechanic rather than a Mod 

 

Weapons At rank 30 deal +165% more damage, and the damage ranks up every 3 ranks. 

 

Of course, for the sake of not having overpowered new players, MK-1 weapons don't have this mechanic, or any starter weapon for that matter. Or put a MR restriction on it 

 

Thoughts?

[DeadD59]

This should've been a given. The more you rank up a weapon, the stronger it should get.

Edited September 11, 2015 by DeadD59

[Regar]

Yup, something like this, but it should also be less damage then what is it now, and it should be something more linear that increases with each level, rather then every 3 ... but yeah, as i said, something like this #KillSerration

[--MZez--]

Sounds like an idea

[bl4ckhunter]

this has been proposed like an incredible amount of times, the problem is not how to deal with it, is how to make it reach DE.

[S7ORM]

The only issue I find with it is that every time we forma, it's going to be annoying (moreso than now, because we can't just get it up 7 levels then slap a max Serration on it) to level it up again.

But it's still a good idea -- in fact, it might encourage some playing of the lower half of the star chart. [size=1]Probably not.[/size]

[Regar]

this has been proposed like an incredible amount of times, the problem is not how to deal with it, is how to make it reach DE.

they know it already, but some things take priority over others, the next rebalance will be mastery rank and multyshot most probably... serration maybe will be next? maybe they will have time to do all of them? who knows?

Edited September 11, 2015 by Regar

[Lorthos_Mornin]

Just because something has been repeatedly proposed but not implemented does not mean that it hasn't been seen.  It's either being considered or it's been tossed out, as I believe it should be.

 

 

Here's why:

 

Adding serration's effect on any weapon innately as it levels means that anyone who starts playing the game can quickly have access to the same damage as a veteran player who's spent hundreds of hours in the game, given how easy it is to level weapons.   Compare this to the current game where it takes hundreds of cores and millions of credits to max serration.  Can a new player do that quickly? No.  They can't, and maxing serration is one of the marks of real progression in the game.  Something this proposal completely removes and completely devalues the time and effort many players have already put into maxing serration.

 

edited for clarity

Edited September 11, 2015 by Lorthos_Mornin

[Regar]

Just because something has been repeatedly proposed but not implemented does not mean that it hasn't been seen.  It's either being considered or it's been tossed out, as I believe it should be.

 

 

Here's why:

 

Adding serration's effect on any weapon innately as it levels means that anyone who starts playing the game can quickly have access to the same damage as a veteran player who's spent hundreds of hours in the game, given how easy it is to level weapons.   Compare this to the current game where it takes hundreds of cores and millions of credits to max serration.  Can a new player do that quickly? No.  They can't, and maxing serration is one of the marks of real progression in the game.  Something this proposal completely removes and completely devalues the time and effort many players have already put into maxing serration.

 

edited for clarity

Isn't your argumet a bit, greedy? is that important for u to put a wall of hundreds of cores to new players just becasue u had to do it? Isn't allowing them to experience past lvl 15 content more important?  i also felt like accomplishing something when i maxed my serration, but that doesn't make it a good system to begin with.

Mods are ment to allow you have many options and pick the best fit to your game style, not to narrow your gaming expirience. (aslo to "deal the same damage as a veteran" u need something like a decent weapon 3 or 4 more rare mods and damage/resistance knowledge , all things that a new player won't reach that easy, but that's just my opinion)

Edited September 12, 2015 by Regar

[(XBOX)LexaHex]

Adding serration's effect on any weapon innately as it levels means that anyone who starts playing the game can quickly have access to the same damage as a veteran player who's spent hundreds of hours in the game, given how easy it is to level weapons.   Compare this to the current game where it takes hundreds of cores and millions of credits to max serration.  Can a new player do that quickly? No.  They can't, and maxing serration is one of the marks of real progression in the game.  Something this proposal completely removes and completely devalues the time and effort many players have already put into maxing serration.

 

Thats why I said... 

 

Or put a MR restriction on it 

 

Also it doesn't take 100 hours to purchase a R10 serration, which any player is capable of doing by simply throwing $10 into the game

[(XBOX)LexaHex]

Can a new player do that quickly? No.  They can't, and maxing serration is one of the marks of real progression in the game.

 

I agree, maxing a serration is defiantly a milestone...

 

But looking at it now, all I got was dead weight off my shoulders so that I can simply add a maxed out mod thats now mandatory on my weapons.

 

Serration sure does give every player a unique build, eh? 

 

Something this proposal completely removes and completely devalues the time and effort many players have already put into maxing serration.

 

DE can simply give out a core refund, or 500 R5 rare cores to every player that had a maxed serration, a bit much, but who wouldn't want that?

 

__________________________________________________________________________________

 

Players are overly attached to little things that they put hundreds of hours into, 

 

 

They become blinded by this milestone so much that can't even see a better alternative.

Edited September 12, 2015 by (XB1)LexaHex488

[Lorthos_Mornin]

Regar, on 11 Sept 2015 - 7:29 PM, said:

-snip-

Greedy? No. Entitled? Maybe. I already have two maxed serrations, how does wanting the system through which I attained my max serrations and through which others can obtain, and have obtained theirs make me greedy? Keep in mind that I have never sold or solicited buyers for a maxed serration.

And yes, part of the point of mods is customizability. However, as the mod system is currently designed it also adds a sense of progression to the game both in the collection of the varied mods and in the leveling of them. If the whole point of the system was just the ability to customize our gear then serration and it's ilk wouldn't exist and every mod in the game would be handed to us at the beginning of the game at maximum effectiveness.

LexaHex488

-snip-

My problem with making damage dependent on mastery rank is that it encourages people to level gear as fast as possible without stopping to really play with it. The way things are now and back when I was maxing serration I never felt bad about slowing down to really check out a weapon because I could still be putting the cores and mods I got into serration. If it was changed there would be even less of a reason to slow down if any at all since the maximum potential of any weapon would be locked behind ever higher mastery ranks.

And you're right, it doesn't take anything more than to be willing to lay down some real money for the plat to buy a rank ten serration, but not only is the person who ranked that serration being rewarded, DE is being funded by the person willing to buy that ranked serration. It's a win-win situation as it is now, the proposal to tie damage to weapon rank is neither rewarding by virtue of time and effort, nor can it in anyway help fund DE directly unless someone is buying weapons with plat solely to level and toss, which is much more unlikely than just buying a maxed serration from the trading channel.

No one has yet made an argument as to why changing the system so that damage scales with weapon level is better in any meaningful way than what we currently have. All the suggested change does is make damage more easily accessible. And I for one refuse to accept "easier"="better".

edit: added responses instead of making a double post

Edited September 12, 2015 by Lorthos_Mornin

[Lost_Cartographer]

I'd rather they just remove serration and it's ilk entirely and simply have enemies scale around weaponry lacking that intense damage improvement.  Guns are surprisingly more balanced across the board without it, but there are still superior weapons (they're just not so glaringly so.)  We need more interesting mods, less simple ones.  We're not going to see a lot of customization in modding without basing weapon mods around triggering on events, working under certain conditions, or encouraging the use of those ever so deeply loved "utility" mods.

 

A sense of progression is great... it works when accumulate new toys.  Serration is a perpetual "level 1 fights level 1's, level 2 fights level 2's) square 1 mod.  This game can actually do without that kind of system just fine.  It's already set up to work without it through the vast and growing warframe, weapon and mod selections already.  DE just needs to get a little more clever with their weapon mods is all.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Littleman88

[(XBOX)LexaHex]

 If the whole point of the system was just the ability to customize our gear then serration and it's ilk wouldn't exist and every mod in the game would be handed to us at the beginning of the game at maximum effectiveness.

 

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVv

 

Of course, for the sake of not having overpowered new players, MK-1 weapons don't have this mechanic, or any starter weapon for that matter. Or put a MR restriction on it 

[DraccoDoom]

Ah yes, so they nerfing miltishot because it makes "no sense" that id does not use more ammo but you want to make weapon shoot harder the longer you shoot them, ah yes hat's logical in every form and way.

[Endgame77]

I'd rather they just remove serration and it's ilk entirely and simply have enemies scale around weaponry lacking that intense damage improvement.  Guns are surprisingly more balanced across the board without it, but there are still superior weapons (they're just not so glaringly so.)  We need more interesting mods, less simple ones.  We're not going to see a lot of customization in modding without basing weapon mods around triggering on events, working under certain conditions, or encouraging the use of those ever so deeply loved "utility" mods.

 

A sense of progression is great... it works when accumulate new toys.  Serration is a perpetual "level 1 fights level 1's, level 2 fights level 2's) square 1 mod.  This game can actually do without that kind of system just fine.  It's already set up to work without it through the vast and growing warframe, weapon and mod selections already.  DE just needs to get a little more clever with their weapon mods is all.

 

The main reason I play Warframe is that unlike every other game on the market, Warframe lets you stupidly powerful. You "normalize" damage like people like you want and watch the game die a quick death.

[ArcusVeles]

 I would like Serration, Split Chamber, Heavy Calibur, etc. to be turned in to the "stance" mods for guns.  You put the mod in its own unique slot and it changes how the gun fires and adds mod points.

 

For example, on a rifle, you could use Serration for normal damage, Heavy Calibur for even higher damage but lower accuracy, and Split Chamber for split shots for status builds.

 

The damage/multishot they provide and the total damage of weapons would have to be tweaked, but this way we can choose what sort of flavor we want our guns to have.  You could even introduce dual stat nightmare mods that blend damage and multishot, rate of fire and multishot, and so on.

[Endgame77]

I agree, maxing a serration is defiantly a milestone...

 

But looking at it now, all I got was dead weight off my shoulders so that I can simply add a maxed out mod thats now mandatory on my weapons.

 

Serration sure does give every player a unique build, eh? 

 

 

DE can simply give out a core refund, or 500 R5 rare cores to every player that had a maxed serration, a bit much, but who wouldn't want that?

 

__________________________________________________________________________________

 

Players are overly attached to little things that they put hundreds of hours into, 

 

 

They become blinded by this milestone so much that can't even see a better alternative.

 

Name 1 video game EVER made that every player has a unique build? Good lord, I hope DE is smart enough not listen to people on here.

[(XBOX)LexaHex]

Name 1 video game EVER made that every player has a unique build? Good lord, I hope DE is smart enough not listen to people on here.

 

Don't have any at the top of my head, but what is the issue with having unique builds?

[Endgame77]

Don't have any at the top of my head, but what is the issue with having unique builds?

 

Ok, I've been gaming a heck of a long time, explain to me both how this could ever be accomplished and more importantly why it should be accomplished. We're playing a game with guns, each gun is different from the other guns in the game. THAT is the variety amongst weapons, we don't need every gun to have 1000 good builds.

 

So, you propose something but can't even name 1 game that has done it ever. Do you think there's maybe a reason for that?

[Oishii]

Name 1 video game EVER made that every player has a unique build? Good lord, I hope DE is smart enough not listen to people on here.

Path of Exile has a pretty good customization without feeling like complete suck if you don't do something 100% mainstream.

 

While everyone is not going to be a precious snowflake with a completely unique build, you can easily make a build that doesn't suck and is still viable with some pros over some other more mainstream build. There are a lot of variations of the same mainstream build too that prioritize certain things over others. Also, if you really want to be unique the passive skill tree is 1325 skills long + throw in active skills you gem into your gear you can be completely unique if you really want to.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Oishii

[Endgame77]

Path of Exile?

 

While you won't be the only precious snowflake with a completely unique build, but you can easily make a build that doesn't suck and is still viable with some pros over some other more mainstream build.

 

I played a ton of PoE, not quite sure how the system in that relates in any way to modding a weapon in a third person shooter. The way PoE works is more inline with using different weapons in this game.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Endgame77

[(XBOX)LexaHex]

Ok, I've been gaming a heck of a long time, explain to me both how this could ever be accomplished and more importantly why it should be accomplished. We're playing a game with guns, each gun is different from the other guns in the game. THAT is the variety amongst weapons, we don't need every gun to have 1000 good builds.

 

So, you propose something but can't even name 1 game that has done it ever. Do you think there's maybe a reason for that?

 

I don't have anything at the top of my head because im put on the spot

 

What I don't understand is why do you care about any other game that has pulled this off? we are here to discuss warframe and propose ideas. Do ideas have to be ripped out from other games? No.

 

1000 good builds? I said unique builds, builds that are tailored to each players personal play style, of course people will have similar builds, but not all. (mag size, reload speed, ammo pool, ammo recovery, status, crit builds. too bad only damage mods are used)

 

Guns are truly different but why stop their? this game already has a lot of depth, why can't it go deeper? who set the limit? No one.

 

I don't understand why you're being so edgy over an opinion/suggestion. This is WF forums, not edge club FYI

Edited September 12, 2015 by (XB1)LexaHex488

[Endgame77]

I don't have anything at the top of my head because im put on the spot

 

What I don't understand is why do you care about any other game that has pulled this off? we are here to discuss warframe and propose ideas. Do ideas have to be ripped out from other games? No.

 

1000 good builds? I said unique builds, builds that are tailored to each players personal play style, of course people will have similar builds, but not all. (mag size, reload speed, ammo pool, ammo recovery, status, crit builds. too bad only damage mods are used)

 

Guns are truly different but why stop their? this game already has a lot of depth, why can't it go deeper? who set the limit? No one.

 

I don't understand why you're being so edgy over an opinion/suggestion. This is WF forums, not edge club FYI

 

If something has never been done in gaming it's more than likely not a good idea. I know personally that I play this game specifically because it lets me be ridiculously powerful.

 

Btw, we have tons of unique builds tailored to each players style, it's called using different weapons.

 

I'm being edgy because people like yourself seem to talk without thinking and every now and then a dev will ruin a great game because it listened to the clueless minority.

 

Take out Serration, the mod that everyone loves and either spent a ton of time levelling or real world money on. See how that works out with the fanbase. Games die really fast with just 1 big mistake and that would be a very big mistake.

[KIREEK]

I think Serration should be an innate mechanic rather than a Mod 

 

Weapons At rank 30 deal +165% more damage, and the damage ranks up every 3 ranks. 

 

Of course, for the sake of not having overpowered new players, MK-1 weapons don't have this mechanic, or any starter weapon for that matter. Or put a MR restriction on it 

 

Thoughts?

Serration is a progression based mod that takes ages to rank up, that keeps the player playing because he needs cores and mods to raise the mod.

By replacing with a system that requires minimal grind (aka ranking the weapon to lvl 30) the new player will obliterate initial content with ease.

 

Cool idea, DE won't use it.